"I want a girlfriend/boyfriend", and other such relationship advice

[Giordano]

So monogamy cannot equal happiness?

 

Not applied to you, we know that already, but us, those who choose to follow it?

 

Happiness comes from within.

 

Also though when it comes to happiness, there's eliminating negative things from your life (carefreeness) and learning to appreciate the good things in your life (gratitude).

 

My basic argument is that long-term monogamy is a threat to everyone's happiness in the long run unless they live boring lives.

 

Should of stopped right there. :roll:

[muggiwhplar]

So monogamy cannot equal happiness?

 

Not applied to you, we know that already, but us, those who choose to follow it?

 

Happiness comes from within.

 

Also though when it comes to happiness, there's eliminating negative things from your life (carefreeness) and learning to appreciate the good things in your life (gratitude).

 

My basic argument is that long-term monogamy is a threat to everyone's happiness in the long run unless they live boring lives.

 

Should of stopped right there. :roll:

 

Are you implying that carefreeness and gratitude are unimportant?

[Giordano]

So monogamy cannot equal happiness?

 

Not applied to you, we know that already, but us, those who choose to follow it?

 

Happiness comes from within.

 

Also though when it comes to happiness, there's eliminating negative things from your life (carefreeness) and learning to appreciate the good things in your life (gratitude).

 

My basic argument is that long-term monogamy is a threat to everyone's happiness in the long run unless they live boring lives.

 

Should of stopped right there. :roll:

 

Are you implying that carefreeness and gratitude are unimportant?

I'm getting tired of monogamy being the lesser, boring lifestyle. It's as if it's a personal insult because you acknowledge it as an fact.

[muggiwhplar]

I'm getting tired of monogamy being the lesser, boring lifestyle. It's as if it's a personal insult because you acknowledge it as an fact.

 

If you say so.

[obfuscator]

If happiness comes from within, I don't see how a monogamous relationship has any more chance of ruining it than a poly-amorous relationship.

[muggiwhplar]

If happiness comes from within, I don't see how a monogamous relationship has any more chance of ruining it than a poly-amorous relationship.

 

It basically boils down to living an easier life by avoiding long-term monogamy. We're taught that things aren't worth having if they aren't difficult to obtain/achieve, and that things which are worth having are hard to get. I don't believe in that. The more attached to something you are, the more susceptible to suffering you are. You can't be carefree in a long-term monogamous relationship.

 

Most of the disadvantages that come with being monogamous don't translate over to polyamory.

Most of the disadvantages that come with being polyamorous also exist in monogamy-- and they're even worse within monogamy.

[tripsis]

Well an easier life doesn't mean a better life either. You shouldn't avoid difficult situations because something could go wrong. If you're not going to work hard and take a few risks then seriously what's the point? I'd rather have a lot of highs and a few lows than a constant state of in-between.

[Giordano]

If happiness comes from within, I don't see how a monogamous relationship has any more chance of ruining it than a poly-amorous relationship.

 

It basically boils down to living an easier life by avoiding long-term monogamy. We're taught that things aren't worth having if they aren't difficult to obtain/achieve, and that things which are worth having are hard to get. I don't believe in that. The more attached to something you are, the more susceptible to suffering you are. You can't be carefree in a long-term monogamous relationship.

But couldn't one be careless in a monogamic relationship? If you don't like her then you can move on, and if she doesn't like you, the break up won't be bad at all.

 

And god forbid you actually fall in love with somebody. God forbid.

[muggiwhplar]

Well an easier life doesn't mean a better life either.

 

You're right, but an easier life is better than a harder life. Why would I want to work hard for something that I can obtain for much less work?

 

You shouldn't avoid difficult situations because something could go wrong. If you're not going to work hard and take a few risks then seriously what's the point?

 

There aren't really any risks involved with monogamy until marriage comes into the picture. At which point, the man has much to lose and little to gain.

 

I'd rather have a lot of highs and a few lows than a constant state of in-between.

 

Everybody wants this. You don't need long-term monogamy to have this. In fact, the structure long-term monogamy doesn't even allow this-- it's usually the other way around past a certain point.

[Giordano]

Well an easier life doesn't mean a better life either.

 

You're right, but an easier life is better than a harder life. Why would I want to work hard for something that I can obtain for much less work?

Whoa there cowboy, they're not getting the same things. You're not going to get a fulfilling romantic relationship if you're [bleep]ing six other girls on the side. Much less only meet the lass three or four months at a time.

[muggiwhplar]

If happiness comes from within, I don't see how a monogamous relationship has any more chance of ruining it than a poly-amorous relationship.

 

It basically boils down to living an easier life by avoiding long-term monogamy. We're taught that things aren't worth having if they aren't difficult to obtain/achieve, and that things which are worth having are hard to get. I don't believe in that. The more attached to something you are, the more susceptible to suffering you are. You can't be carefree in a long-term monogamous relationship.

But couldn't one be careless in a monogamic relationship? If you don't like her then you can move on, and if she doesn't like you, the break up won't be bad at all.

 

And god forbid you actually fall in love with somebody. God forbid.

 

I think you're misinterpreting the concept of carefreeness. Carefreeness means not worrying about the outcome of things. Most people would care if their partners started messing around with other people. If they didn't, then they probably shouldn't/wouldn't be in an exclusive relationship in the first place.

[tripsis]

Well an easier life doesn't mean a better life either.

 

You're right, but an easier life is better than a harder life. Why would I want to work hard for something that I can obtain for much less work?

The idea is working hard for something that pays off tremendously in the end, rather than settling for something less awesome that's less work. The joy should be in the work and the achievement. But apparently you want to skirt through your life without any achievements, as I'd hardly consider one night stands to be much of an achievement :P

 

You shouldn't avoid difficult situations because something could go wrong. If you're not going to work hard and take a few risks then seriously what's the point?

 

There aren't really any risks involved with monogamy until marriage comes into the picture. At which point, the man has much to lose and little to gain.

The risk I'm referring to is in taking a chance and actually letting yourself fall in love. You seem to have the idea that it's better to avoid love and monogamy all together because of the potential failure. You're hiding from failure, whereas I'd rather take a chance with it.

 

I'd rather have a lot of highs and a few lows than a constant state of in-between.

 

Everybody wants this. You don't need long-term monogamy to have this. In fact, the structure long-term monogamy doesn't even allow this-- it's usually the other way around past a certain point.

Only because according to you it's a scientific fact that every single relationship in the world gets boring, whereas having meaningless sex with a new woman every night is the most fun and diverse thing in the world. Heaven forbid that people be different and I find monogamy more interesting and enjoyable than meaningless sex with people I don't care about or barely know.

[Randox]

At the end of the day, I can see some merits to muggi's approach. But I can't imagine going through life without actually loving someone. You can't love someone without putting yourself on the line, so by definition your apprach prohibits any love at all muggi. I just feel like never loving would be very lonely.

[tripsis]

I don't judge people who want to stick to one night stands etc. If people want to do that, that's fine; I won't get involved or try to change that. My only problem with muggi's approach is the way he's presenting it, as if it's the only right way to do it and as if it's fact rather than his own opinion and lifestyle. I just keep getting the impression that he thinks he's enlightened and knows the secret key to the world of relationships, which he's now graciously sharing with the community. No offence muggi, but that's really how you're coming off :P

[muggiwhplar]

Whoa there cowboy, they're not getting the same things. You're not going to get a fulfilling romantic relationship if you're [bleep]ing six other girls on the side. Much less only meet the lass three or four months at a time.

 

Are you implying that a relationship can only be fulfilling if it's exclusive with one person? What makes you say that?

 

The idea is working hard for something that pays off tremendously in the end, rather than settling for something less awesome that's less work. The joy should be in the work and the achievement. But apparently you want to skirt through your life without any achievements, as I'd hardly consider one night stands to be much of an achievement :P

 

Long-term monogamy doesn't pay off tremendously in the end-- at least, not enough to justify the "hard work" put into it. Do you realize that if we're still both talking about monogamy here, you're also implying that maintaining a long-term monogamous relationship is "hard work?" Shouldn't relationships be fun, carefree, and exciting? Without any work?

 

The joy shouldn't come from the "achievement"; it should come from the process leading up to the achievement. The achievement is just a bonus, if it even occurs. If you go through life always wanting and needing things and remaining unsatisfied until you've achieved something, you're going to have a very difficult time finding happiness. Considering the process in monogamy is "hard work," that doesn't bode well for it.

 

Also, what do you consider to be "the end" of the relationship when you say it will all pay off in the end?

 

 

The risk I'm referring to is in taking a chance and actually letting yourself fall in love. You seem to have the idea that it's better to avoid love and monogamy all together because of the potential failure. You're hiding from failure, whereas I'd rather take a chance with it.

 

You can still be in love and have multiple relationships at the same time.

 

Only because according to you it's a scientific fact that every single relationship in the world gets boring, whereas having meaningless sex with a new woman every night is the most fun and diverse thing in the world. Heaven forbid that people be different and I find monogamy more interesting and enjoyable than meaningless sex with people I don't care about or barely know.

 

I don't think you'll feel the same way as you continue further down the traditional monogamous path-- living together, getting married, having kids, etc.

[muggiwhplar]

At the end of the day, I can see some merits to muggi's approach. But I can't imagine going through life without actually loving someone. You can't love someone without putting yourself on the line, so by definition your apprach prohibits any love at all muggi. I just feel like never loving would be very lonely.

 

You don't have to be in a monogamous relationship to love someone.

 

You also don't need to be in love to live an awesome, happy, and fulfilling life.

[muggiwhplar]

I don't judge people who want to stick to one night stands etc. If people want to do that, that's fine; I won't get involved or try to change that. My only problem with muggi's approach is the way he's presenting it, as if it's the only right way to do it and as if it's fact rather than his own opinion and lifestyle. I just keep getting the impression that he thinks he's enlightened and knows the secret key to the world of relationships, which he's now graciously sharing with the community. No offence muggi, but that's really how you're coming off :P

 

I'm not really saying my approach is the only right way. More like long-term monogamy is the only wrong way. There's still one-night-stands only, having one significant other along with casual hookups, having multiple significant others, being monogamous (but just not forever), etc.

 

Yeah it doesn't surprise me that that's how I'm coming off :P Like I said, I don't expect to inspire people or change beliefs through a forum like this. Just trying to get people to think outside of the box :)

[Giordano]

 

Yeah it doesn't surprise me that that's how I'm coming off :P Like I said, I don't expect to inspire people or change beliefs through a forum like this. Just trying to get people to think outside of the box :)

So you can feel a bit dignified at what you do/want to do? :rolleyes:

 

 

So what other is there besides monogamy and polygamy?

[Riku3220]

 

Yeah it doesn't surprise me that that's how I'm coming off :P Like I said, I don't expect to inspire people or change beliefs through a forum like this. Just trying to get people to think outside of the box :)

So you can feel a bit dignified at what you do/want to do? :rolleyes:

 

 

So what other is there besides monogamy and polygamy?

Omnigamy? You know, do it with everyone?

[Giordano]

Whoa there cowboy, they're not getting the same things. You're not going to get a fulfilling romantic relationship if you're [bleep]ing six other girls on the side. Much less only meet the lass three or four months at a time.

 

Are you implying that a relationship can only be fulfilling if it's exclusive with one person? What makes you say that?

 

In the most romantic, fulfilling way? Yes I dare to say that.

[tripsis]

I don't have time to reply to everything.. need sleep.

 

The idea is working hard for something that pays off tremendously in the end, rather than settling for something less awesome that's less work. The joy should be in the work and the achievement. But apparently you want to skirt through your life without any achievements, as I'd hardly consider one night stands to be much of an achievement :P

 

Long-term monogamy doesn't pay off tremendously in the end-- at least, not enough to justify the "hard work" put into it. Do you realize that if we're still both talking about monogamy here, you're also implying that maintaining a long-term monogamous relationship is "hard work?" Shouldn't relationships be fun, carefree, and exciting? Without any work?

 

The joy shouldn't come from the "achievement"; it should come from the process leading up to the achievement. The achievement is just a bonus, if it even occurs. If you go through life always wanting and needing things and remaining unsatisfied until you've achieved something, you're going to have a very difficult time finding happiness. Considering the process in monogamy is "hard work," that doesn't bode well for it.

I wasn't exclusively talking about relationships when I said that. When you made your original post it sounded like you were talking about life in general so I responded in kind. I don't want life in general to be easy. I want there to be hard work and achievement. That part wasn't specific to relationships.

 

The risk I'm referring to is in taking a chance and actually letting yourself fall in love. You seem to have the idea that it's better to avoid love and monogamy all together because of the potential failure. You're hiding from failure, whereas I'd rather take a chance with it.

 

You can still be in love and have multiple relationships at the same time.

Not everybody wants to do that.

 

Only because according to you it's a scientific fact that every single relationship in the world gets boring, whereas having meaningless sex with a new woman every night is the most fun and diverse thing in the world. Heaven forbid that people be different and I find monogamy more interesting and enjoyable than meaningless sex with people I don't care about or barely know.

 

I don't think you'll feel the same way as you continue further down the traditional monogamous path-- living together, getting married, having kids, etc.

And that's all you're doing.. thinking.. guessing. But at the end of the day, you can't make assumptions or predictions about my life/relationship or anyone else's. You haven't even experienced getting married and having kids yourself. All you're going on are other peoples' experiences and you can't apply those to other people. I'm not throwing all the successful marriages in your face because I know that everyone is different. People are different, personalities are different, relationships are different, and some people generally make better choices. You think monogamy is boring. I get it. But don't try to tell me how I'm going to feel or how my relationship is going to end up. You're not psychic or all knowing.

[muggiwhplar]

So you can feel a bit dignified at what you do/want to do? :rolleyes:

 

Are you always this negative?

 

So what other is there besides monogamy and polygamy?

 

Re-read the post you just quoted. The other alternative is asexuality.

 

In the most romantic, fulfilling way? Yes I dare to say that.

 

Why does a relationship need to be exclusive to be the "most fulfilling?" How are you measuring fulfillment?

 

I wasn't exclusively talking about relationships when I said that. When you made your original post it sounded like you were talking about life in general so I responded in kind. I don't want life in general to be easy. I want there to be hard work and achievement. That part wasn't specific to relationships.

 

Ah ok. Thanks for the clarification.

 

And that's all you're doing.. thinking.. guessing. But at the end of the day, you can't make assumptions or predictions about my life/relationship or anyone else's. You haven't even experienced getting married and having kids yourself. All you're going on are other peoples' experiences and you can't apply those to other people. I'm not throwing all the successful marriages in your face because I know that everyone is different. People are different, personalities are different, relationships are different, and some people generally make better choices. You think monogamy is boring. I get it. But don't try to tell me how I'm going to feel or how my relationship is going to end up. You're not psychic or all knowing.

 

You're right that I haven't experienced getting married and having kids, however I have experienced a loving monogamous relationship and all of the ups and downs that came with it-- just like you. I've lived in your world; as far as I know, you've never lived in mine. After being single and being able to experience the butterflies in my stomach and feelings of love, closeness, intimacy, companionship, etc-- all without actually having having a girlfriend-- I realized there was no way I would ever need or want to return to monogamy.

 

It's not just my empirical evidence that's supporting my beliefs. It's all the statistics about the likelihood of a failed marriage too. When you disregard all this evidence, you're just doing what everybody else is doing by saying "My relationship isn't like that! Mine's special! I can make it work! That won't happen to us!" Everybody thinks that their relationship is special or that their relationship is different from all the failed ones. Just because I can't predict with 100% certainty doesn't mean my prediction shouldn't be considered.

 

At the end of the day, I can see some merits to muggi's approach. But I can't imagine going through life without actually loving someone. You can't love someone without putting yourself on the line, so by definition your apprach prohibits any love at all muggi. I just feel like never loving would be very lonely.

 

Randox, I'm replying to your post again because I failed to elaborate on something very important. I already said that you don't need to be in a long-term monogamous relationship to experience love, and you don't need to be in love to experience the highest echelon of human happiness. But I failed to elaborate on another point...

 

Your post summarizes what I feel is one of the key reasons why long-term monogamy is bound to fail. People in general seem to believe that the only way to find love is through a romantic relationship. They're also afraid of being alone.

 

When you enter a relationship because you're trying to gain (as opposed to give) something, you're in for trouble. When you need another person's love, that person has more power over your life than you do. If that person does something to disappoint you-- whether it be cheating on you, dumping you, or even something as mild as not behaving the way you wish they would have-- you're going to feel bad because of it. Similarly, you'll have more things to worry about-- such as them withholding love, or finding someone else. If such a thing occurs, then you're back to feeling lonely and unloved again, and the cycle resets.

 

If you can learn to genuinely love yourself, you won't have to worry about things like loneliness, jealousy, and neediness ever again.

[RpgGamer]

I want Muggi's explanation of manhood now methinks

[muggiwhplar]

I want Muggi's explanation of manhood now methinks

 

It's very subjective and not really possible to concretely define. While I don't necessarily agree with every item on the list, I agree with most of this article here: http://blackdragonblog.wordpress.com/the-modern-alpha-male/

 

Basically it's not a case of "alpha" or "beta." Rather, it's more of a spectrum/range. With his specifics aside, I pretty much agree that it's good for every man to strive to become happy, free, confident, and masculine.

 

Hope that gives you an idea of my thoughts on the matter.

[muggiwhplar]

I don't judge people who want to stick to one night stands etc. If people want to do that, that's fine; I won't get involved or try to change that. My only problem with muggi's approach is the way he's presenting it, as if it's the only right way to do it and as if it's fact rather than his own opinion and lifestyle. I just keep getting the impression that he thinks he's enlightened and knows the secret key to the world of relationships, which he's now graciously sharing with the community. No offence muggi, but that's really how you're coming off :P

 

Something else I'd like to add/emphasize...

 

For those of you reading my posts in this thread over the past few days/weeks, if there's one thing I'd like for you to take away from my posts, it wouldn't be that "polyamory is good" or even "long-term monogamy is bad."

 

If you're going to take away something from what I've been talking about this whole time, I'd like you to understand that happiness is the prime catalyst for your goals/wants/needs/desires. But you don't need those things to be happy-- you can be happy right now without those things by having gratitude for what you already have and being carefree about what you don't have. If you aren't happy right now, start acting/talking/thinking like a happy person until your subconscious starts internalizing that belief.

 

It's upsetting to see how many people aren't happy with their lives, or not as happy as they could be, despite all the great things they've already got going for them (such as being alive).

 

If you want a more detailed explanation or anything, feel free to shoot me a PM. I don't want to get any further off topic lol.

 

...alright, now back to arguing :P