The Good, The Bad, The Lending System

[highlanders]

Pay haft before the transaction, and haft after the transaction.

 

 

 

*Half* And a scam could still happen here, the scammer will still get 50% lol.

 

Is it my turn to say something obvious?

 

 

 

You can get scammed, but it's the best it will get when trading with strangers. If the lender was planning on scamming from the start, you lose only 50% instead of 100%. If the lendee was planning on scamming, you still get haft of your money. It's not rocket science.

[Italian5kamikaze]

You deserve to be banned for misuse of report abuse :roll:

 

How is it misuse? And don't give me that "Jagex Mod said it was okay" line; recall the Wilderness luring fiasco?

 

Why shouldnt i give you that line? If a mod said its okay then it isnt against the rules and its misuse if you report something that isnt breaking rules and reporting other people being scammed is just plain stupid, if someone scams me then ill report it, i dont need everyone around me to do it too.

[la la la]

You deserve to be banned for misuse of report abuse :roll:

 

How is it misuse? And don't give me that "Jagex Mod said it was okay" line; recall the Wilderness luring fiasco?

 

 

 

No, this one is pretty set in stone.

 

 

 

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

Well, ever since that fiasco with the Wilderness and luring thing being "official" (even a JMod posted it on the forums!), I've been wary of what's said on the RSOF. I won't believe it's "in stone" until I see it on the Item Lending page as a FAQ.

[Italian5kamikaze]

Well, ever since that fiasco with the Wilderness and luring thing being "official" (even a JMod posted it on the forums!), I've been wary of what's said on the RSOF. I won't believe it's "in stone" until I see it on the Item Lending page as a FAQ.

 

 

 

[Brave2]

 

 

 

Quote from above "We had not thought that money would be changing hands for the lending of items". I cannot believe that Jagex are so naive (or out of touch with their customer base) to believe this, but obviously they are :wall:

[Lt_Wolfe]

In the past year or so, I think the item lending system has to be the worst update.

 

It's not a bad idea but is extremely flawed and brings many unwanted problems. So far I've reported at least 10 people for breaking rule 3 by organising trust trades/item scamming.

 

I do like the idea; I'm frequently asking my friend if I can borrow his partyhat. However, neither one of us would dream of exchanging money for this.

 

 

 

RS is still in the Beta period, so I'm hoping some changes will be made, all of the problems have been outlined on the RSOF and J-Mods have seen them, lets just sit back and wait eh? ;) :D

 

RuneScape is NOT still in the beta phase. Changes are always being made, but for the most part, for anything in the game, Item Lending will probably remain nearly unchanged.

 

 

 

You deserve to be banned for misuse of report abuse :roll:

 

 

 

How so? I've never broken a single rule.

 

You're telling me that if a person scams another via the item lending system, and I report it... I should be banned? LOL. I don't think so. I know the rules very well, and telling me I should be banned based on nothing is pathetic.

 

And I quote! "Effective date: 15th July 2008

 

 

 

You must not misuse Jagex Customer Support. This includes threatening or reporting an innocent person, supplying false information and abusing Jagex staff."

 

Therefore, for having no evidence of a rule being broken, and the likelihood of all legality in said event being... legal, you are guilty of breaking Rule #10: Misuse of Customer Support. While you say "you don't know if they won't scam you," yet you fail to mention the fact that YOU don't know that they will. Not all people are bad, and there are those that are honest, hard working people, you just don't want to believe in it, because it would completely destroy your argument. So again, to surmise: you ARE breaking the rules, and you are not the pretty pretty princess you thought you were. Not to mention the fact that you don't know if they were scammed, you only have their words to base it on. If I randomly said "hey! _____ scammed me!" would you be correct in reporting (insert name here)? I think the universal answer, regardless of your stance on reporting, to be "no." You are only seeing what you want to see, and I can only hope that you'll end up shooting yourself in the foot (figuratively) one day because of it.

 

 

 

Pay haft before the transaction, and haft after the transaction.

 

 

 

*Half* And a scam could still happen here, the scammer will still get 50% lol.

 

Once again, an example of your pessimism. Not all people are scammers. There are legitimate reasons for paying for a borrowed item: for instance, the person would not otherwise lend you said item unless you compensated him/her for his/her time without that item. Just think about how Capitalism works, not Communism.

 

 

 

It's only lame because people use it to scam and to make money. Lending should be because someone is being nice, not because they want to make money off it, if you ask me. Isn't renting an item technically a trust trade anyhow, and thus against the RS rules?

 

And the world should be filled with millions of pretty ponies, balloons, and chocolate cakes for EVERYONE! Oh wait, I just remembered: life isn't fair. Do you know what money is? It's not the value people put on it, it's not the "trust in the government" that backs it: currency is the value people put on their time. Obviously, then, you would want to make your time worth more. In that case, you would want to increase your price, and use that made-up value to spend on somebody else's valued time. For instance: you spend an hour of your time making Nature Runes. Somebody else spends an hour of their time mining Pure Rune Essence, which you buy for 150gp each, meaning that you put a price of 150gp per essence below the value of spending your time making Nature Runes, because you feel you can maximize your net worth. Without this desire to maximize our value, the world would be like the U.S.S.R. in the 1980's.

 

 

 

I dare you, Seraphyna (or anybody else, for that matter), to go up to somebody in REAL LIFE and tell them to give you something simply because they shouldn't care about money. You might be right, though. Maybe we shouldn't care so much about money. But then, if we didn't care about money, we would all be worthless, and nothing would ever get done, because the value we put on menial jobs such as maintenance and custodial work would be below that of anything else, just about. We worry about money because we want to survive. We want to better our standard of living. We want to have all the things we want, and more. You can't do that if you're constantly giving away things, can you?

 

 

 

So far I've reported at least 10 people for breaking rule 3 by organising trust trades/item scamming.

 

Good thing a jagex mod posted on the forums saying it's legal as long as you don't organize on forums :wall:

 

 

 

Thanks to people who report like you, people get blackmarks for things they don't deserve.

 

 

 

I'm aware of this THANKS. How do you know these weren't pre-organised? :)

 

How do you know they were? You said you reported them, apparently without any knowledge of the event. You didn't know if they had just met there by coincidence, or if they had planned it. Out of those 10 people you reported, are you telling me that 100% of them planned it on the forums? And if so, why report them when the forum moderators and Jagex staff can see the digital evidence trail leading right up to them? You didn't know, and that's just it. You can't go around calling in an air strike when you don't know what you're facing. Now, if you had hard evidence, and I mean REAL proof that they planned it on the RuneScape.com official forums, then that would be a different story. However, since you have no proof, or at least have mentioned no proof thus far, I must assume that you have none, and thus are reporting on the basis of stereotyping: "if somebody loans an item, they must therefore be scamming," and that's wrong. You could very well have reported an innocent person, and you would then be held responsible for the reprecussions of that report. By reporting an innocent person, you are wasting everybody's time, and I just got done telling you how time is so valuable, and how we want to maximize our time's worth, so why would you want to devalue somebody's worth? Are you saying that the people working at Jagex Customer Support aren't worth enough to only look at reports that are backed by real evidence? Are you saying that they are worth no more than that?

 

 

 

Doesn't change the principle of the matter. How can you absolutely guarantee that they're going to give you the items/payment for the item rental? Simple answer: You can't. And I hope that they don't implement such a system, either.

 

You can't guarantee that in real life either, but guess what? Is every so called "trust trade" a scam? No, look at Amazon, Bestbuy.com, or NewEgg.com, or ANY online retailer. What GUARANTEE do you have that they won't just take your money and run? It takes a day to set up a web site, so don't tell me "they have a place where you can reach them," because RuneScape accounts are more permanent than websites are.

 

 

 

You AGAIN are saying that anybody loaning an item out must be a scammer, otherwise they wouldn't do it. Why? Why do entrepreneurs have to be labeled as scammers? Do you have any evidence that they have scammed? Do you have any real proof of it? I would love to see some, if that is the case.

 

 

 

Agreed. People will always find a way to scam as long as there is item interaction between players :?

 

The same could be said in the real world, yet I don't see the world's economy come crashing down because of scammers, do you? You obviously haven't learned that scammers are a relatively small percentage of the population. You are in for one hell of a shock when you get out into the real world and discover that not all people are evil.

 

 

 

I will leave you with Rule #10, once again:

 

Effective date: 15th July 2008

 

 

 

You must not misuse Jagex Customer Support. This includes threatening or reporting an innocent person, supplying false information and abusing Jagex staff.

[doomy]

How do you scam someone throught the lending system?

 

 

 

Anyway RWT trading through it seems like the only problem I can find.

[muggiwhplar]

Well, ever since that fiasco with the Wilderness and luring thing being "official" (even a JMod posted it on the forums!), I've been wary of what's said on the RSOF. I won't believe it's "in stone" until I see it on the Item Lending page as a FAQ.

 

 

 

The KB is just as misinforming as the RSOF unfortunately haha

 

 

 

You really can't trust anyone except Andrew and Paul

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

Doesn't change the principle of the matter. How can you absolutely guarantee that they're going to give you the items/payment for the item rental? Simple answer: You can't. And I hope that they don't implement such a system, either.

 

You can't guarantee that in real life either, but guess what? Is every so called "trust trade" a scam? No, look at Amazon, Bestbuy.com, or NewEgg.com, or ANY online retailer. What GUARANTEE do you have that they won't just take your money and run? It takes a day to set up a web site, so don't tell me "they have a place where you can reach them," because RuneScape accounts are more permanent than websites are.

 

 

 

You AGAIN are saying that anybody loaning an item out must be a scammer, otherwise they wouldn't do it. Why? Why do entrepreneurs have to be labeled as scammers? Do you have any evidence that they have scammed? Do you have any real proof of it? I would love to see some, if that is the case.

 

 

 

And here's why real-life analogies fail!

 

 

 

Most (if not all) online retailers have a method for you to track your order online. Of course, the online companies themselves aren't doing any of the shipping; that's handled through third-parties like UPS or Federal Express. That's where the "guarantee" is, and that guarantee's pretty ironclad -- after all, it's FedEx and UPS that are giving out the tracking numbers. As far as RuneScape goes, the only real guarantee you get when you deal with items is in the trade system, not the Item Lending system. Ergo, you have no way to assure yourself or anyone else for that matter that you'll receive the agreed payment.

 

 

 

Second, I never said that anything about people loaning out items being scammers. I have no clue where you got that from, or why you thought I said it. All I said is that it's a matter of principle. You just don't have any way to guarantee that the deal is going to go all the way through with Item Lending. Of course, if you have evidence to the contrary, I'd love to see that.

 

 

 

Lastly, I don't understand what your analogy is between RuneScape accounts and websites, the former being "more permanent" than the latter. What were you on about?

 

 

 

[side-note] Seriously folks, how many of you honestly forgot that this system wasn't meant as a way to rent items in the first place?

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

 

 

Well, ever since that fiasco with the Wilderness and luring thing being "official" (even a JMod posted it on the forums!), I've been wary of what's said on the RSOF. I won't believe it's "in stone" until I see it on the Item Lending page as a FAQ.

 

 

 

The KB is just as misinforming as the RSOF unfortunately haha

 

 

 

You really can't trust anyone except Andrew and Paul

 

 

 

Case in point. I'm just really wary of where information that is "set in stone" is ever since that little scenario. But you're right, the KB has its flaws and can often be incorrect/contradict something else.

[Mylez]

I still fail to see how I misued customer support and deserve to be banned. If this is the case, I would be by now. I only make accurate reports and I'm well aware of the rules set in place. I frequently vist the RSOF and did see the posts made by the J-Mods, even if they did contradict each other. :|

 

 

 

As Muggi said, the J-mods have a habit of releasing two opposing rules so that innocent players like myself are left unsure of what exactly to report. :?

[Money Wasted]

the lending system is really helpful to me. if i have some junk i need to get rid of i can just lend someone something and ive sold my junk. and it also gives a good opportunity to try an item before you buy it

[Lt_Wolfe]

Doesn't change the principle of the matter. How can you absolutely guarantee that they're going to give you the items/payment for the item rental? Simple answer: You can't. And I hope that they don't implement such a system, either.

 

You can't guarantee that in real life either, but guess what? Is every so called "trust trade" a scam? No, look at Amazon, Bestbuy.com, or NewEgg.com, or ANY online retailer. What GUARANTEE do you have that they won't just take your money and run? It takes a day to set up a web site, so don't tell me "they have a place where you can reach them," because RuneScape accounts are more permanent than websites are.

 

 

 

You AGAIN are saying that anybody loaning an item out must be a scammer, otherwise they wouldn't do it. Why? Why do entrepreneurs have to be labeled as scammers? Do you have any evidence that they have scammed? Do you have any real proof of it? I would love to see some, if that is the case.

 

 

 

And here's why real-life analogies fail!

 

 

 

Most (if not all) online retailers have a method for you to track your order online. Of course, the online companies themselves aren't doing any of the shipping; that's handled through third-parties like UPS or Federal Express. That's where the "guarantee" is, and that guarantee's pretty ironclad -- after all, it's FedEx and UPS that are giving out the tracking numbers. As far as RuneScape goes, the only real guarantee you get when you deal with items is in the trade system, not the Item Lending system. Ergo, you have no way to assure yourself or anyone else for that matter that you'll receive the agreed payment.

 

 

 

Second, I never said that anything about people loaning out items being scammers. I have no clue where you got that from, or why you thought I said it. All I said is that it's a matter of principle. You just don't have any way to guarantee that the deal is going to go all the way through with Item Lending. Of course, if you have evidence to the contrary, I'd love to see that.

 

 

 

Lastly, I don't understand what your analogy is between RuneScape accounts and websites, the former being "more permanent" than the latter. What were you on about?

 

 

 

[side-note] Seriously folks, how many of you honestly forgot that this system wasn't meant as a way to rent items in the first place?

 

Lets take this in the order you said them:

 

1. If I understand you correctly, you are saying that a website gives you a tracking number, and it tells you that it's in such-and-such a location. How can you GUARANTEE that this is correct? How do you know that they are shipping EXACTLY what you ordered? How can you be so sure that they are being honest? Forget the fact that there are millions of scamming web sites, that alone worth looking at and comparing to RuneScape, I'll just tell you that anybody can be scammed by anything. So again, how is this new Item Lending/Loaning thing so bad? You have no guarantee you will get what you want with either this or online shopping. A simple note saying "your item is on its way" isn't enough to guarantee something. You are taking FAITH in that statement. You are HOPING that they are sending you something. Unless you actually go to their warehouse and pick it up yourself before paying for it, you have the chance of getting scammed. Even if it is UPS or Fed Ex that are giving you the order numbers, and even saying that they have no reason to lie to you, there is still no guarantee that the place you bought the item from isn't just a box filled with newspaper or something else. You have no way of knowing EXACTLY what is in that box, do you? You never know, just like you never know with Item Loaning.

 

 

 

2. That part about the scammers was more aimed at Mylez, as I was trying to argue against his points as well, but as proven by the statement below, he obviously can't comprehend things such as you, I commend you for that.

 

 

 

3. It was a rough analogy, but one important none-the-less. When I said that RuneScape accounts were more permanent than websites, I was saying that a website can scam somebody, and immediately close down, without you knowing anything about them, or how to reach them, or even bring litigation against them. However, a RuneScape account cannot be deleted, and is tied with an I.P. address. This, along with other things, can be reported to Jagex, and action can be taken. The whole analogy comes down to the point that, in reality, RuneScape accounts that scam through Item Loaning are potentially more punishable than scamming websites. If you get scammed by a website, there may not be a way to track them, as you would a RuneScape account, and its owner.

 

 

 

4. Many things in this world are used in such ways that were not originally intended. Computers, if you remember, were not created with gaming in mind, but were instead meant to be used for calculations. The Internet was meant to be a way to communicate, share, and process information, not allow for people to create likenesses of themselves and allow those likenesses to level up, kill things, and even kill other players.

 

 

 

I still fail to see how I misued customer support and deserve to be banned. If this is the case, I would be by now. I only make accurate reports and I'm well aware of the rules set in place. I frequently vist the RSOF and did see the posts made by the J-Mods, even if they did contradict each other. :|

 

 

 

As Muggi said, the J-mods have a habit of releasing two opposing rules so that innocent players like myself are left unsure of what exactly to report. :?

 

Then you are too thick to reach, and no amount of logic or reasoning can make you see through your ego.

[warrior5024]

The concept is neat, but never let people in your clan know you have a Godsword. Never a moments peace.

[Beethovens29]

The concept is neat, but never let people in your clan know you have a Godsword. Never a moments peace.

 

 

 

lemme geuss..... u hav had "first had experience"? :lol:

[bbjoe282]

Yes there are flaws and yes there are people who take advantage. I know some people don't like it now that you can't tell if a person with an expensive item is the true owner or just borrowing. I still think that overall, in my experience at least, it has been a positive thing as it gives players a chance to be generous in a safe way -- and a lot of Runescape players, it seems, are very kind and generous people.

 

all you have to do is just use a lendable item on them like a MSB and if you can lend it to them then it is theirs.