What next for G.E? Prevent manipulation?

[Captainkidd]

I thought this was already against the rules... I know on another website they have a group which has a net worth of 5 Billion gold and they do this all the time, though no one has been banned for it that I believe...

[mmmorgan]

EVERYONE SHOULD BE HAPPY WITH GE! i remember when i spent all day looking for a mind shield or rune warhammer, just so i could do a random tt. players are spoiled! be happy that u can get any item in game with a varook telly, so what if it takes 4 hours for a random item! remember when blk d hide sets or super sets cost like 20k each! now any player can afford a gilded talble or or gilded benches for his\her summer home in yannille.

 

 

 

stop complaining that it takes 20 min to buy (insert item). try spending all day in world 2 spamming for (INSERT ITEM). GEEZE KIDS TODAY!

 

 

 

when i was your age frankferters costed a nickel.

 

oh i forgot, try paying 20k more for every item u want quick, like i did b4 trade limits. stop complaining!

[DieselX]

Price manipulation is undetectable, and impossible to define. If some people want to appropriate themselves the monopoly of an entire ressource, that's their right, just like you can go onto the GE and buy whichever item you want in whichever quantity within the limits. By having the monopoly on the ressource, they control the price, they create rarity and they resell for a profit. It's simply how the economy works: when you have the monopoly over an item, you control its price. Just like diamonds inrl: they are much more common than people think they are, the companies who own the diamonds vault them to create artificial rarity. The thing is, they're absolutely in their right to buy as many diamonds they want, and do whatever they wish with them, sell them, vault them, eat them, it's their diamonds.

 

 

 

To try to prevent price manipulation is like trying to prevent a natural phenomenom from happening, like the planet from rotating: manipulation simply happens in a normal economy. Take oil for instance, it is blatantly manipulated, we all know it is, and even if there are cute little laws saying that's illegal, that's not how it works. Accuse these oil companies, what do think they will say? "We just happened to put the oil at the same price as the other companies, that's all". To prove that manipulation is happening, you need proof of rendezvous, secret phone calls or meetings in which they decide upon a price. No one in law enforcement is crazy enough, or has enough free time to play the spy and try to bust these cartels.

 

 

 

Really, just keep playing the damn game, and making the right choices when it comes down to what you buy. Things will always be manipulated, you just don't have to buy into it.

[Omali]

EVERYONE SHOULD BE HAPPY WITH GE! i remember when i spent all day looking for a mind shield or rune warhammer, just so i could do a random tt. players are spoiled! be happy that u can get any item in game with a varook telly, so what if it takes 4 hours for a random item! remember when blk d hide sets or super sets cost like 20k each! now any player can afford a gilded talble or or gilded benches for his\her summer home in yannille.

 

 

 

stop complaining that it takes 20 min to buy (insert item). try spending all day in world 2 spamming for (INSERT ITEM). GEEZE KIDS TODAY!

 

 

 

when i was your age frankferters costed a nickel.

 

oh i forgot, try paying 20k more for every item u want quick, like i did b4 trade limits. stop complaining!

 

 

 

Re-read the thread, I could hear the point going straight over your head all the way from my house. This thread isn't about how long it takes to get an item, it's about what Jagex will do next to stop price manipulation.

[ford_landau]

bought 600 guthan helms @ 1.1ea, sold em all at 1.3ea.... now they are at 1.1 ea again....

 

 

 

 

 

ty jagex for letting uni students with no time still be able to make heaps of GPs

[Flodder450]

wait....1k/4hour?

 

Did you go insane?

 

if i need to buy lets say,60k maples,i need to wait a week? :shock:

 

big :shame: :shame:

[BlueLancer]

Accuse these oil companies, what do think they will say? "We just happened to put the oil at the same price as the other companies, that's all". To prove that manipulation is happening, you need proof of rendezvous, secret phone calls or meetings in which they decide upon a price. No one in law enforcement is crazy enough, or has enough free time to play the spy and try to bust these cartels.

 

 

 

Oil is such a powerful political and financial tool, the cartels are no longer illegal. The OPEC is openly called a cartel and nobody takes action against them.

 

 

 

It's in the best interests of the oil-owners to set the price as high as possible at any given time and avoid competition. They control so much of the oil supply, buyers have no other choice but to submit to their prices if they want their own economies to stay alive.

 

 

 

Cartels exist in other big industry as well like tobacco and raw metals. It's not inherently a bad thing; It's what will inevitably happen when greedy business owners understand what's best for them.

[Omar]

bought 600 guthan helms @ 1.1ea, sold em all at 1.3ea.... now they are at 1.1 ea again....

 

 

 

 

 

ty jagex for letting uni students with no time still be able to make heaps of GPs

 

What's the point of making money if you can't play RS?

[jaffarulz]

ive posted a similar post on another thread, if you cant beat'em then join'em, with tip it being one of the most used runescape websites it shouldn't be hard to get a few people to buy and sell stuff at the same time to try to make a profit

 

 

 

i personally think it would be a good idea to make a new thread telling people interested in making some extra money what and when to buy and sell.

 

 

 

i know you think this manipulation is bad but the whole point is to recreate a real stockmarket and these are things that you can actively do

[Omar]

Yes, we think this is bad. If you can't beat them, you try harder. If you want to make a thread to help other people get screwed over, go ahead and watch it go down in flames.

[Zierro]

I never thought it was a real issue until I saw for myself. The only way I can see them fixing it is by limiting your GE use altogether.

[jaffarulz]

Yes, we think this is bad. If you can't beat them, you try harder. If you want to make a thread to help other people get screwed over, go ahead and watch it go down in flames.

 

but manipulating the grand exchange isn't against the rules, bartering was already a popular way of making money and if you think this is incredibly unfair and makes no sense then maybe you should look into how the stock market (what the GE is based on) works.

[pulli23]

Yes, we think this is bad. If you can't beat them, you try harder. If you want to make a thread to help other people get screwed over, go ahead and watch it go down in flames.

 

 

 

Tell me: why is this bad?

 

 

 

Don't say "because the innocent user gets screwed": this is simply untrue: any user should READ before they play a game: know what you're doing and don't just start diong stuff without any good research!

 

 

 

And anyone who knows what's going on can use it for their benefits!

 

 

 

(just an easy note: the "realistic" price -the price you would have without manipulation/speculation- is around the average price for such items. Manipulators don't affect the market in long term, so the price WILL come down someday.

 

And since runescape is complete tertiaire/quartaire economy, nobody actually NEEDS to get something to survive/get a good living, there is no point in getting something very soon: you could just wait till the price starts dropping below it's average price again!

 

 

 

So there it's said: now what's the problem with manipulators?

[upthebanner]

If we want a dog eat dog world within runescape then what you say is correct. I have made over 150 mill from GE and I rely on others not understanding or having the patience. I do not manipulate prices rather I collect resouces being sold cheap and sell to people needing high amounts of that resource quickly.

 

Manipulation is deliberate targetting of the not so well off in terms of cash and experience and is not a "nice" thing to do.

 

However please do not miss the point!!!

 

Whether we all agree it is good or bad does not matter. My problem is always that should JAGeX decide it is a bad thing then they will put in further controls to prevent this and in the process ruin the very best aspects of the entire GE process. JAGeX mods are already monitoring the situation in the well known clan chat channel and historically are not in favour of a few players monopolising the gaming experience (Why have they not changed party hat prices?)

[Omar]

Yes, we think this is bad. If you can't beat them, you try harder. If you want to make a thread to help other people get screwed over, go ahead and watch it go down in flames.

 

 

 

Tell me: why is this bad?

 

 

 

Don't say "because the innocent user gets screwed": this is simply untrue: any user should READ before they play a game: know what you're doing and don't just start diong stuff without any good research!

 

 

 

And anyone who knows what's going on can use it for their benefits!

 

 

 

(just an easy note: the "realistic" price -the price you would have without manipulation/speculation- is around the average price for such items. Manipulators don't affect the market in long term, so the price WILL come down someday.

 

And since runescape is complete tertiaire/quartaire economy, nobody actually NEEDS to get something to survive/get a good living, there is no point in getting something very soon: you could just wait till the price starts dropping below it's average price again!

 

 

 

So there it's said: now what's the problem with manipulators?

 

Are you delusional? Have you not noticed people have lost quite a bit of money on the August crash? I don't want to buy a BGS planning on selling it soon and having to wait 2 weeks because there are people messing up the prices.

[tryto]

Yes, we think this is bad. If you can't beat them, you try harder. If you want to make a thread to help other people get screwed over, go ahead and watch it go down in flames.

 

but manipulating the grand exchange isn't against the rules, bartering was already a popular way of making money and if you think this is incredibly unfair and makes no sense then maybe you should look into how the stock market (what the GE is based on) works.

 

 

 

 

 

Oh? We should base it on the American stock market?

 

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_manipulation

 

 

 

Market manipulation is prohibited under Section 9(a)(2)[2] of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, and in Australia under Section s 1041A of the Corporations Act 2001. The Act defines market manipulation as transactions which create an artificial price or maintain an artificial price for a tradable security.

 

 

 

Pools

 

"Agreements, often written, among a group of traders to delegate authority to a single manager to trade in a specific stock for a specific period of time and then to share in the resulting profits or losses."[3]

 

 

 

Runs

 

"When a group of traders create activity or rumors in order to drive the price of a security up." An example is the Guinness share-trading fraud of the 1980s. In the US, this activity is usually referred to as painting the tape[4].

 

 

 

Bear raid

 

"Attempting to push the price of a stock down by heavy selling or short selling."[6]

 

 

 

Sound familiar?

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: SEC- securites exchange commission - http://www.sec.gov/about/laws.shtml

 

 

 

 

 

activity or rumours to drive the price of a security up

 

 

 

This part is particularly relevant to rs. With the spread of rumours of the activity by cartels, it causes the general rs public to panic, helping the initial drop of the "stock". By the cartel working together, they cause high activity and spread rumours to effect the price of the item being manipulated.

 

 

 

I can myself generally conclude that activity like this occurring in real life WOULD be persecuted.

 

 

 

 

 

This is now the FOURTH time I've posted this.

[Psycho_Robot]

Tell me: why is this bad?

 

 

 

Don't say "because the innocent user gets screwed": this is simply untrue: any user should READ before they play a game: know what you're doing and don't just start diong stuff without any good research!

 

 

 

And anyone who knows what's going on can use it for their benefits!

 

 

 

(just an easy note: the "realistic" price -the price you would have without manipulation/speculation- is around the average price for such items. Manipulators don't affect the market in long term, so the price WILL come down someday.

 

And since runescape is complete tertiaire/quartaire economy, nobody actually NEEDS to get something to survive/get a good living, there is no point in getting something very soon: you could just wait till the price starts dropping below it's average price again!

 

 

 

So there it's said: now what's the problem with manipulators?

 

 

 

So your logic is that as long as something bad doesn't affect things forever then its ok? That doesn't seem like a very good way of doing it. After all crimes don't affect things forever. If someone steals your TV you'll get a new one eventually. So robbery has no long term affects. But robbery isn't ok is it? Because the robbers are making money off of you doing something that's not supposed to be done. Just because the prices will go back to what they SHOULD be does NOT mean that its an excuse for the players who put the prices to where they SHOULDN'T be.

 

 

 

As for your second point, that we should just wait until the price returns to normal before buying, that's just absurd. Normal players should NOT have to wait until some greedy price manipulators make their money before buying the supplies they want. Price manipulators should never push honest players to the side while they cash in on their machinations. There's no point in getting something soon? If a player wants something at a fair price they should get it whenever they want. More like there's no point in enabling price manipulators.

 

 

 

Speaking of which, your entire post reeks of a price manipulator who is trying to justify his actions. Especially this line here:

 

 

 

And anyone who knows what's going on can use it for their benefits!

[AirlessWig]

Shouldn't this belong in the rant section, because your article is one long rant.

 

I don't care about people 'manipulating' prices. With some patience you can still buy things for max price, with alot of patience you can even buy it for a lower price a few days later.

 

Don't think it's smart on their side to manipulate. They make like 10-15 percent in 4-5 days. Not that hard with some merchanting to get a few deals done a day at 3-4 percent a day getting their profit in a day...

 

As for trade limits, they are allready well thought out, as more and more items come into the game every day, it will be harder to buy them all up and the problem will probably solve itself. If not, I'll be having a good time reading through all these rants.

[psvstef]

jagex did something against price manipulation i think,you cant buy gs's and barrows in bulk anymore.

[Hobgoblinpie]

you can only buy 10 Godswords, and 10 of each individual pieces of armour. So, you could buy 10 bandos Godswords, 10 bandos chestplates, 10 bandos tassets and 10 bandos boots per 4 hours.

[AndyPandy]

you can only buy 10 Godswords, and 10 of each individual pieces of armour. So, you could buy 10 bandos Godswords, 10 bandos chestplates, 10 bandos tassets and 10 bandos boots per 4 hours.

 

 

 

That may be, but think about it, that's 60 of each a day. There's still room for a halluva lot of manipulation there.

[Hobgoblinpie]

In the old limits, you could get 100 per 4 hours. Get 10 people, and that is 1000 bought out. but, put the limit to 10, and have 10 people buy it out. thats 100 bought out. A step in the right direction I think.

[Ollyc3]

In the old limits, you could get 100 per 4 hours. Get 10 people, and that is 1000 bought out. but, put the limit to 10, and have 10 people buy it out. thats 100 bought out. A step in the right direction I think.

 

 

 

True but organisation is more key than the number of people/item limit, especially with investing. This update isnt gonna hinder people that much.

[Hobgoblinpie]

In the old limits, you could get 100 per 4 hours. Get 10 people, and that is 1000 bought out. but, put the limit to 10, and have 10 people buy it out. thats 100 bought out. A step in the right direction I think.

 

 

 

True but organisation is more key than the number of people/item limit, especially with investing. This update isnt gonna hinder people that much.

 

 

 

I suppose you are right, but at least the amount that can be bought out is lowered, and it also means that people that actually wanted to buy and use it have the chance to do so while those 'merchanters' are buying it out.

[bedman]

What's next? I has just happened.

 

 

 

Party hat prices now only have a 1 percent limitation, or whatever.

 

 

 

Example: red phat price range: 195-198M (in stead of like 180-210)