Magic, more of a secondary?

[BabyPunchers]

I'm almost maxed melee and I have 99 Range. I also have 81 Magic. I really don't see a need to train my magic any higher. There's no point, and that's sad really.

[highlanders]

Each type of armour has a negative bonus for type of attacks other than it's own...

 

 

 

Karil and black dragonhide top removes 15 magic attack.

 

Ahrim removes 10 ranged attack.

 

Torag plate and rune plate removes 10 ranged and 30 magic.

 

 

 

Notice something? Melee never gets a negative bonus on armour of other types!

 

 

 

You see... Negative melee bonuses on black dragonhide and ahrim's, then that would be fair. And that way meleers can still switch armour to bypass ranged/magic, however at the cost of attack, just like it is for rangers and magicians.

[Huta]

I've never had any problems using it as my primary...

 

 

 

[ice blitz+shadow barrage gif goes here]

 

 

 

8-)

 

 

 

Now try doing that whilst your opponent has karil's armor and subsequently tries to special you out with their dds.

 

Magic can be used as a primary. But the fact is that its uses are very limited as a primary. You can tear through their melee attack and armor, but what happens if they use ranged? Or even put ranged armor on?

 

 

 

I've beaten people wearing Armadyl and ranging me... Primary ancients can beat anyone if you know how to use it

 

 

 

Doesn't change that magic is horribly underpowered.

 

 

 

If you really think magic can beat melee, I'll deathmatch you in the duel arena. No range.

 

 

 

As much as I love magic, it doesn't cut it atm for anything but a "secondary" or "sidearm" for melee, and that's NOT the way it's supposed to be. Other than a few minor changes, magic is the same thing now as it was back in RSC, a bonus for other classes, just a vengeance or a barrage or a teleblock to make things easier for a ranger or a warrior.

[00hydro]

Reading through most of the responses, it seems like there is one thing that would cause magic to become less of a secondary skill. How popular would a stronger version of splitbark armor be? You know, a version where it actually has good defense bonuses (something like between rune armor and granite armor) and a good magic bonus (between mystic and infinity?).

[Italian5kamikaze]

I've never had any problems using it as my primary...

 

 

 

[ice blitz+shadow barrage gif goes here]

 

 

 

8-)

 

 

 

Now try doing that whilst your opponent has karil's armor and subsequently tries to special you out with their dds.

 

Magic can be used as a primary. But the fact is that its uses are very limited as a primary. You can tear through their melee attack and armor, but what happens if they use ranged? Or even put ranged armor on?

 

 

 

I've beaten people wearing Armadyl and ranging me... Primary ancients can beat anyone if you know how to use it

 

 

 

Doesn't change that magic is horribly underpowered.

 

 

 

If you really think magic can beat melee, I'll deathmatch you in the duel arena. No range.

 

 

 

As much as I love magic, it doesn't cut it atm for anything but a "secondary" or "sidearm" for melee, and that's NOT the way it's supposed to be. Other than a few minor changes, magic is the same thing now as it was back in RSC, a bonus for other classes, just a vengeance or a barrage or a teleblock to make things easier for a ranger or a warrior.

 

 

 

Mixing the ahrims set effect with shadow and smoke barrage will poison you and lower your attack and strength all while youre at a distance because youve been ice barraged, how are you going to beat that without range?

 

 

 

Reading through most of the responses, it seems like there is one thing that would cause magic to become less of a secondary skill. How popular would a stronger version of splitbark armor be? You know, a version where it actually has good defense bonuses (something like between rune armor and granite armor) and a good magic bonus (between mystic and infinity?).

 

 

 

Very popular obviously, however magic robes arent supposed to have a lot of defense.

[bedman]

 

 

 

Very popular obviously, however magic robes arent supposed to have a lot of defense.

 

 

 

*Supposed*

 

 

 

If everyone is saying something is not *supposed* to be, cause it never been like that before, then nothing is every going to change. Magic robes arent supposed to have high def in the old system, where magic on its own is pretty underpowered. There needs to be change.

[Will H]

Reading through most of the responses, it seems like there is one thing that would cause magic to become less of a secondary skill. How popular would a stronger version of splitbark armor be? You know, a version where it actually has good defense bonuses (something like between rune armor and granite armor) and a good magic bonus (between mystic and infinity?).

 

It's still very possible to take a mage down wearing even that if you use a Godsword and some good dragonhide. Besides, you've then destroyed the advantage rangers should have over mages.

 

No, we should reinforce the original plan (http://www.runescape.com/kbase/viewarticle.ws?article_id=1702) for the combat triangle, make it near impossible to get into close combat with a skilled mage. Jagex has forgotten that what defines the corners of the triangle is not the armour/robes, but the weapons. Negate the weapons, negate the combat style.

 

 

 

Once we get rid of the threat meleers pose against mages, using either my suggestion or another with the same result, there would be no need to alter the stats for dragonhide, only rangers would ever use it because that's the only style it would ever be useful for.

[SwimmyTheDuck]

Yes, because it helps the main combat style you are using.

[bedman]

Reading through most of the responses, it seems like there is one thing that would cause magic to become less of a secondary skill. How popular would a stronger version of splitbark armor be? You know, a version where it actually has good defense bonuses (something like between rune armor and granite armor) and a good magic bonus (between mystic and infinity?).

 

It's still very possible to take a mage down wearing even that if you use a Godsword and some good dragonhide. Besides, you've then destroyed the advantage rangers should have over mages.

 

No, we should reinforce the original plan (http://www.runescape.com/kbase/viewarticle.ws?article_id=1702) for the combat triangle, make it near impossible to get into close combat with a skilled mage. Jagex has forgotten that what defines the corners of the triangle is not the armour/robes, but the weapons. Negate the weapons, negate the combat style.

 

 

 

Once we get rid of the threat meleers pose against mages, using either my suggestion or another with the same result, there would be no need to alter the stats for dragonhide, only rangers would ever use it because that's the only style it would ever be useful for.

 

 

 

Magers can fend of melee'ers good enough IMO. Being barraged is annoying enough as a meleeer. What magic needs IMO is:

 

 

 

Some robes with very high melee def, no ranged def (to not "overpower"), good mage attack (but worse than ahrim) and negative melee and ranged attack (so it doesnt get "abused" by other forms, like dragonhide).

 

KO power.

[Ravenkana]

[hide=quote wall]

Agreed. Magic is more secondary. But this is caused by two things. 1. Magic is both a skill and a combat style. If it was JUST a combat style, the rune set up may never have been needed. 2. Dragonhide. As said before, it can easily cancel out magic. It's also cheap and does not detract from melee. Heck, no armor detracts from melee, and those that detract from range can still be used, making effective range tanks. But magic? The best robes are Ahrims, a level sixty armor, while range and melee have armor at the seventy mark- Bandos and Armadyl. So, magic can easily be negated and has low armor bonuses. Though the armor bonus is a given in ANY game, mages actually tend to hit harder or have fantastic abilities in other MMORPGs or just games in general. Final Fantasy, DnD, Fire Emblem, even RTS like the Warcraft series. Ironically, this is not so in Runescape.

 

 

 

 

 

A few errors in that post.

 

1. Armadyl armor does detract from melee.

 

2. Ahrims is level seventy armor.

 

3. Bandos and Armadyl are level sixty-five armors.

 

 

 

 

 

But yes, magic is very secondary, and needs reworking if it is ever to become primary. (high hitting spells/spec weapons would go a long way towards this....) Have you ever seen a "true" mage? One with magic and defense as their only combat skills, and doesn't have a main? (pure mages don't count.) I didn't think so.

Really? Wow. Didn't realize Armadyl detracted from melee... And you can tell how much money I have based on my faulty data... But how much DOES Armadyl detract? If it's minimal, than a player can easily melee.

 

 

 

*quickly checks the kb* helm -5, legs -6, body -7; for a total of 18.

Considering that Proselyte's alone has a total of -10 magic with just plate and legs, that doesn't sound too bad.

[/hide]

 

 

 

That is negative MELEE stats, not magic.

 

and givin mage robes better defence against melee would go a long way to ballancing the triangle... as well as giving dhide negative melee stats against players (it shouldn't vs monsters tho, as certain slayer monsters use magic based melee.)

Right, but I'm comparing the two. Proselyte's, armor requiring level 30 defence, gives a -13 on magic for the full set. Armadyl's, the games most powerful range armor, gives a negative 18 to melee for the full set. See what I'm saying?

[Huta]

I've never had any problems using it as my primary...

 

 

 

[ice blitz+shadow barrage gif goes here]

 

 

 

8-)

 

 

 

Now try doing that whilst your opponent has karil's armor and subsequently tries to special you out with their dds.

 

Magic can be used as a primary. But the fact is that its uses are very limited as a primary. You can tear through their melee attack and armor, but what happens if they use ranged? Or even put ranged armor on?

 

 

 

I've beaten people wearing Armadyl and ranging me... Primary ancients can beat anyone if you know how to use it

 

 

 

Doesn't change that magic is horribly underpowered.

 

 

 

If you really think magic can beat melee, I'll deathmatch you in the duel arena. No range.

 

 

 

As much as I love magic, it doesn't cut it atm for anything but a "secondary" or "sidearm" for melee, and that's NOT the way it's supposed to be. Other than a few minor changes, magic is the same thing now as it was back in RSC, a bonus for other classes, just a vengeance or a barrage or a teleblock to make things easier for a ranger or a warrior.

 

 

 

Mixing the ahrims set effect with shadow and smoke barrage will poison you and lower your attack and strength all while youre at a distance because youve been ice barraged, how are you going to beat that without range?

 

 

 

Reading through most of the responses, it seems like there is one thing that would cause magic to become less of a secondary skill. How popular would a stronger version of splitbark armor be? You know, a version where it actually has good defense bonuses (something like between rune armor and granite armor) and a good magic bonus (between mystic and infinity?).

 

 

 

Very popular obviously, however magic robes arent supposed to have a lot of defense.

 

 

 

 

 

No autocast, it's going to screw you up when you are forced to eat. All the Ahrims and shadow barrage is going to do is strip down my superset, and the attack negative isn't going to matter when you're wearing +120 slash def.

 

 

 

Trust me, if he wears full ahrim instead of a shield and an ancient staff, killing him is going to be easier than the usual mage. I've dueled mage on melee 45 times, and I've lost 3. Ice barrage averages 17 damage per cast not including 0s and splashes (and if I'm wearing decent mage def, including splashes that average damage drops to around 8 per cast). My melee averages around 25-26 damage with a whip, up to 33 or so with a godsword. That's just too much damage to overcome on a mage, especially since all I need to kill a mage is 2 lucky numbers while the mage has no choice but to slowly wear me out of food.

[jessy87]

I'm almost maxed melee and I have 99 Range. I also have 81 Magic. I really don't see a need to train my magic any higher. There's no point, and that's sad really.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

while i dont disagree with you, I just know not having 96 magic and access to all the spells. Just sucks at times. Because me and a friend always run around and do stuff and its like the other day i wanted him to do energy transfer to me with his lunar. He couldnt.

 

 

 

 

 

so, you your self are fine probably, but their are situations that can be fun/funny to use lunar magic and stuff to your advantage.

[muggiwhplar]

No autocast, it's going to screw you up when you are forced to eat. All the Ahrims and shadow barrage is going to do is strip down my superset, and the attack negative isn't going to matter when you're wearing +120 slash def.

 

 

 

Trust me, if he wears full ahrim instead of a shield and an ancient staff, killing him is going to be easier than the usual mage. I've dueled mage on melee 45 times, and I've lost 3. Ice barrage averages 17 damage per cast not including 0s and splashes (and if I'm wearing decent mage def, including splashes that average damage drops to around 8 per cast). My melee averages around 25-26 damage with a whip, up to 33 or so with a godsword. That's just too much damage to overcome on a mage, especially since all I need to kill a mage is 2 lucky numbers while the mage has no choice but to slowly wear me out of food.

 

 

 

I've fought hundreds of meleers with magic alone, dozens of them with karils... I won about 95% of the time. You forget that your melee averages 0 when you're frozen solid :P

 

 

 

In a duel arena match with you, I wouldn't really worry about KO'ing you - just wearing you down

 

 

 

Autocast doesn't make a difference to me at all either ... I haven't used it in ages

 

 

 

I'm almost maxed melee and I have 99 Range. I also have 81 Magic. I really don't see a need to train my magic any higher. There's no point, and that's sad really.

 

 

 

You forget how your magic level is basically all of your magic defense - it's very easy to hit people w/ under 85 magic

[Dragondan_Ro]

I have to agree it's more of a secondary, but there are several ways they could fix that, maybe they could make it into two skills? One would be passive magic, and one would be aggresive. The passive wouldn't be able to be used for combat, and the aggresive would only be for combat.

 

They could have a system, since both are magic, you get for example 200 Exp in Aggresive for using aggresive spell, and 1 in Passive. And opposite. People who train passive to 99, will get aggresive at around 50 when they're done.

 

 

 

Of course, magic already is a skill, and some have 99, if it was split in two, then they'd have to add something like you could choose which one of the two skills would have the exp you had from before. Then you would train the other one. Just because it would be odd and everything, doesn't mean it can't be done.

[Huta]

No autocast, it's going to screw you up when you are forced to eat. All the Ahrims and shadow barrage is going to do is strip down my superset, and the attack negative isn't going to matter when you're wearing +120 slash def.

 

 

 

Trust me, if he wears full ahrim instead of a shield and an ancient staff, killing him is going to be easier than the usual mage. I've dueled mage on melee 45 times, and I've lost 3. Ice barrage averages 17 damage per cast not including 0s and splashes (and if I'm wearing decent mage def, including splashes that average damage drops to around 8 per cast). My melee averages around 25-26 damage with a whip, up to 33 or so with a godsword. That's just too much damage to overcome on a mage, especially since all I need to kill a mage is 2 lucky numbers while the mage has no choice but to slowly wear me out of food.

 

 

 

I've fought hundreds of meleers with magic alone, dozens of them with karils... I won about 95% of the time. You forget that your melee averages 0 when you're frozen solid :P

 

 

 

In a duel arena match with you, I wouldn't really worry about KO'ing you - just wearing you down

 

 

 

Autocast doesn't make a difference to me at all either ... I haven't used it in ages

 

 

 

I'm almost maxed melee and I have 99 Range. I also have 81 Magic. I really don't see a need to train my magic any higher. There's no point, and that's sad really.

 

 

 

You forget how your magic level is basically all of your magic defense - it's very easy to hit people w/ under 85 magic

 

 

 

I'm open if you want to try and fight it out in the duel arena yourself. I've been challenging max level mages for ages on the rsof, out of the 15 mages that have deathmathed me the full 3 fights per person, I've lost 3 duels. 3 out of 45.

 

 

 

And even if a mage beats me, that doesn't change it's major flaws. Wearing people out does not get kills in pvp. No KO. Low damage. Low accuracy. Weak armor. Almost instant death versus a ranger.

 

 

 

Just look at how well a ranger stands up to melee - wouldn't it make sense that a mage would be just that effective against a ranger? A mage has its hands full just trying to beat the class it's supposed to dominate, a ranger doesn't even break a sweat killing a mage.

[kudos6969]

ahrims + torag helm, zuriels staff(or ancient staff), arcane spirit shield, using piety, sara brews + super restores(for the def bonus) gives very nice mage bonus so you hit high more often and dont miss as often on blackhide and also gives great melee defense. it all comes down to how much your willing to loose to gain. unfurtunately for a mage to really work you need more than just ahrim top and bottoms.

 

 

 

Most people judge mage but really have not seen what a mage with very high mage attack bonus can do and with the added use of miasmic spells its just sick. Of coruse for the extra melee defense you can throw in a steel titan its a further +15% melee def on top of the piety and pots.

[meb]

Magic is a PvM skill in the first place. Only 3 spells are used in Pvp, and those are Ice barrage, Teleblock and Vengeance. They're support spells. I don't think Jagex wants Magic to be a primary PK skill.

[JIM]

I think it's a secondary skill in that it doesn't really have the options I do at 99 Range to KO someone.

 

 

 

However, its utility value is amazing. How many of you have seen the lvl 115+ Mages running around PvP that are almost invincible if used correctly.

 

 

 

I've never played a Mage tho so I can only speak from my encounters with them as a Ranger.

[SwreeTak]

Yes, more of a secondary. It's near to impossible to pk with magic. You can't ko unless you have a team. There are no special attacks, there's nothing. Magic's just a secondary skill to pretty much any skill - starting with combat, ending withconstruction (lunar).

 

 

 

Yes, I agree with you. Magic isn't the most efficiant and best way of pking. But sure it is fun to throw spells after other players? :D

[pulli23]

Well at pvp it actually isn't too bad: unless the opponent has a strong magic defense + high magic level.. You can destroy your opponent.. Just choose the correct targets....

 

 

 

There are only a few problems:

 

-pjing is the biggest threat: halting an oppenent is really nice, but if somebody else takes his place it's kind of stupid...

 

-High magic defense is possible.. I'm not sure why, but magic seems to be more influenced by the opponents armor than melee/range..

 

-High cost.. I'm sorry but that's also something you should take into consideration: even if a magician kills somebody the current loot system almost never gives enough back. (if the fight comes down to a deadmatch/foodmatch)..

 

-No tb on ancients.. The well known fast-slow-spell trick works greatly as ko power.. (well like 2 dds specs). But the problem is: if I melee and I notice a magician holds me in place with his ice I simply tele out instantly! Call me a teletubby: but that's just how it works, the only way to get a kill is by surprising your opponent..

 

So a combination of low/no KO power + no tb (unless you go for the worse option of god spells) makes mages just an "annoyance": strong but nothing to worry about!

 

 

 

 

 

Now as for PvM: well magic is simply non-existant here apart for barrows and dk. I'm really wondering what jagex is thinking: but magicians just are never ever good!

[psvstef]

last half year i only used magic to teleport i think :lol:

[Will H]

Magic is a PvM skill in the first place. Only 3 spells are used in Pvp, and those are Ice barrage, Teleblock and Vengeance. They're support spells. I don't think Jagex wants Magic to be a primary PK skill.

 

I don't think they intended this to happen, it's just that they've ignored the basics of the skill as a PvP combat style. When any game company establishes some kind of combat style system (in this case, the combat triangle) in a game which revolves mostly around combat based activities they must maintain this system, no matter what. Jagex has almost failed here, and if it wasn't for the spells that you listed above, and very few others, it would be less of a combat triangle and more like a combat foodchain, and then there'll just be a dominant class, melee.

 

 

 

Magic must not be a secondary backup skill, it should function just as well as melee and ranged with just as much variety of tactics.

[00hydro]

Here's another idea, how about a level 98 spell on the ancient's spellbook, which works exactly like the Spellbook Swap spell? (Lunar Magics level 96 spell)

 

And I still think that a better version of splitbark is what mages need to cope with those pesky godswords.

[Rsdude099]

But when you give mage some new stuff to even out the cb triangle, the other 2 will probably complain. They'll say things like' Magic is too overpowered now

 

and '1110ne1cant1specmageswithdbownow1@1212'.

 

 

 

 

 

Not really a point, who cares. Mage needs to be usable on its own. Maybe new additions to spell books, new armor, maybe a new staff with a special, maybe a completely new spell book?

 

 

 

Why did I even post lol? I guess I contributed a little bit..

[Infi]

Magic is a PvM skill in the first place. Only 3 spells are used in Pvp, and those are Ice barrage, Teleblock and Vengeance. They're support spells. I don't think Jagex wants Magic to be a primary PK skill.

 

Ice blitz

 

Spellbook change (Vengeance + Blitz combo)