Dragonkin: After the Rise of Lucien

[Psycho_Robot]

Although someone has probably posted this(I haven't read all the replies) the elder dragons aren't related to the Dragonkin as you meet an elder dragon during Recipe for Disaster and they appear to be tiny little dragon things.

 

 

 

How do you know? What evidence is there of this? Clearly that tiny dragon thingy wasn't a true dragon, but what points to it being an elder dragon?

 

 

 

It was a fairy dragon, wasn't it?

 

 

 

Edit: ah, it is named K'klik, it is the last of the fairy dragons, and it's examine text is: "Could this be one of the elder dragons?"

 

 

 

That seems to me like it would be a Red Herring, Jagex has used them before! Quite literally in the Fremennik Trails quest, for those of you who remember :lol:

 

 

 

P.S. OMGSANTAHATSWTFBBQ :mrgreen: :D :

[Kiel]

I think I have a small connection.

 

 

 

Talk to your demon butler, ask for dinner. He will say something like, "Yes master, I will make a feast worthy of the lords of [Place Name]." (Name unsure.)

 

 

 

Therefore, demons must originate from that place. Now examine a Tormented Demon, and you will learn that Lucien controls them. We can infer that the TDs come from the same realm as other Demons, so Lucien found a way into that realm. We can also then infer that this is a realm of evil. (It is explained in Darkness of Hallowvale that Zamorak can draw chaotic beings from a realm of evil. This would include demons and the like, just look at the Zammy GWD boss. Therefore, demons come from a realm of evil, the name of which the demon butler gives, and which Lucien has penetrated.)

 

 

 

Now we know that Lucien is following the footsteps of Zamorak to ascend into godhood. Does that mean he will gather followers from a similar realm? What if Lucien is controlled by the dragonkin, as mentioned before?

 

 

 

 

 

Possible, though it relies on a lot of loose connections: IF the demon butler came from the same realm as the demons Lucien cursed, IF the place he referenced is in that place (Could it just be a place famous for it's food?), IF the reference to Zamorack drawing allies was not to just Freneskae (sp?), IF the demons that followed Zamorack were drawn to Gielinor by him from that realm (Could have been summoned by, and then betrayed / rebelled against Zaros), IF Lucien summoned demons from the place too (as opposed to just getting some demons that had made it to Gielinor or w/e themselves), IF that realm isn't just the basic realm for summoning demons from (Delrith, Agrith Naar, w/e, plus maybe summoning creatures), IF Lucien is following the same path as Zamorack (for example, he might be going to use the Stone of Jas as a replacement (possibly a better one) for Zaros in Zamoracks path (although how he intends to stab it is anyones guess, lol), and who knows exactly how Zamorack achieved godhood anyway (remembering that he didn't become a god till some time between his banishment from Gielinor and his return, and who knows what he did while he was away)). And of course, the very big IF, Lucien being controlled by the dragonkin. It seems unlikely that he would go to all the trouble he did, when he could have just told his masters where it was and let them get it straight away.

 

That said, I could be wrong about any of these, and your idea is still entirely possible.

 

 

 

Well the demon butler mentions the same place and his "demon lords" quite a few times, so I think it is safe to assume that it is the realm demons originate. Also if you ask him about past jobs, he says he's served demon lords before. Then, other demons would also come from the same realm. This is my connection. I think it is correct because there is a lot of evidence.

 

 

 

First off, all demons have the same basic look. That would mean they must be similarly related, which probably won't happen if they are from different realms. But looks are deceiving right? Then note that Darklight and Silverlight are strong against any and ALL demons. This is obviously some sort of deficiency in their make-up which allows the sword to penetrate them. Therefore, demons would be related through blood because they all share a similar trait (a bit of taxonomy there).

 

 

 

Lucien is following the path of Zamorak. And it is stated clearly during the quest that he will use at least the Staff of Armadyl, although it is obvious that the Stone of Jas is part of his plot.

 

 

 

On Zamorak becoming a god, it said that he left RuneScape and returned a god, correct? Something outside of RuneScape must have completed the transformation, perhaps the Stone of Jas? Also, remember that Zamorak's ascendance into godhood was partly accident, since he happened to hit Zaros in the correct spot. This would mean Lucien would need another god's power in order to become a god, which means he is going to attack a god or another deity. This leads me to believe that he will be a big enemy in the Mahjarrat battle up "North", since he will attempt to obtain godhood there.

 

 

 

But anyway, back to my demons point. Lucien is controlling the demons, which means he has found a way into a realm of evil. What else is stated as evil? The Dragonkin, so it seems possible that Lucien is unwittingly doing the work of the Dragonkin. Remember the ending scene from WGS? The Dragonkin said they were growing stronger, perhaps because of Lucien's actions? Maybe the Kin can draw power from the Stone of Jas, but it was being shielded in the Guthix Temple. When Lucien teleported it away, the Kin would once again draw strength from it.

 

 

 

The shielded Stone has been implied before.

 

 

 

Why don't you try finding out the name of that evil demon place? Could help a bit.

 

 

 

 

 

Read conversations with Movario - he states both Guthix and Saradomin got his powers from the stone, and after that he tries to imply Zammy used it and Lucien would like to. he gives probably most of important statements on the history of the Stone.

[Misterknowitall]

Although someone has probably posted this(I haven't read all the replies) the elder dragons aren't related to the Dragonkin as you meet an elder dragon during Recipe for Disaster and they appear to be tiny little dragon things.

 

 

 

How do you know? What evidence is there of this? Clearly that tiny dragon thingy wasn't a true dragon, but what points to it being an elder dragon?

 

 

 

It was a fairy dragon, wasn't it?

 

 

 

Edit: ah, it is named K'klik, it is the last of the fairy dragons, and it's examine text is: "Could this be one of the elder dragons?"

 

 

 

That seems to me like it would be a Red Herring, Jagex has used them before! Quite literally in the Fremennik Trails quest, for those of you who remember :lol:

 

 

 

P.S. OMGSANTAHATSWTFBBQ :mrgreen: :D :

 

 

 

Red Herring? What am I missing?

[stormveritas]

"Red Herring" is a phrase which refers to an item or piece of information used to throw an investigation off course.

 

 

 

It comes from the mid 1800s (think Sir Arthur Conan Doyle/Sherlock) when bloodhounds were used to track criminals. Because red herring are fish with an extraordinarily strong scent, a criminal may throw one down a divergent path to set the hounds off course.

[Psycho_Robot]

"Red Herring" is a phrase which refers to an item or piece of information used to throw an investigation off course.

 

 

 

It comes from the mid 1800s (think Sir Arthur Conan Doyle/Sherlock) when bloodhounds were used to track criminals. Because red herring are fish with an extraordinarily strong scent, a criminal may throw one down a divergent path to set the hounds off course.

 

 

 

In Fremennik Trials, a player gets a literal Red Herring as part of a puzzle, yet the fact that it is a Red Herring is in ITSELF a red herring! Because the Red Herring is important in solving the puzzle! Its a double red herring! :ohnoes:

[Kiel]

Hey I suddenly got a good idea:

 

Think of one of CE's letters: Chaos, Soahc, Jas. Says nothing. But If Sara isn't god of good but of order and Zammy has a motto strength through chaos, what if Jas=Guthix? Stone of Jas is the only reference of Elder Gods, what if it was just Guthix? Then in 2nd Age Icthlarin would have taken Mahjarrat WITH Dragonkin there to protect Stone,which he now stopped using, then everything would fit. Except for one thing,which tho doesnt argue with it:how Zammy got the Stone in the God Wars? Why dragonkin started abusing it only in 4th Age but not in 2nd? W8ing till February for answers=)

[Krimm911]

That was an excellent thread. I enjoyed it while I was fishing today :thumbsup: .

 

 

 

My question to the community is now that we are putting "faces" to some lore of RS, do you think we will ever know what Sara, Zamorak, or Guthix will look like?

 

 

 

I surely hope that as new lands get released and more quests maybe some ancient civilization have made statues or something that gives us a sense of what the gods look like.

[Hajutze]

My memory isnt so good bur during while Guthix sleeps , near the Stonehendge thing there was some .. image .. it looked like a Medusa dude (with some strange .. snake looking things for hair) and if the picture in wikia is correct .. well thats what Guthix should look like.

[Krimm911]

On RS wiki there is a picture of guthix that is like you described a skull with snake hair or something. Can anyone post a screen shot of what this guthix looks like in game?

[Blutters]

That was an excellent thread. I enjoyed it while I was fishing today :thumbsup: .

 

 

 

My question to the community is now that we are putting "faces" to some lore of RS, do you think we will ever know what Sara, Zamorak, or Guthix will look like?

 

 

 

I surely hope that as new lands get released and more quests maybe some ancient civilization have made statues or something that gives us a sense of what the gods look like.

 

Ever gotten the Mime random event? :D

[Misterknowitall]

If you want pics of the god's faces, then check the god letters

 

 

 

http://www.runescape.com/kbase/viewcategory.ws?cat_id=19

 

(check the more recent ones for better pics)

 

 

 

As for a pic of Guthix in-game, can anyone go to the meeting history quest area?

 

You can watch the cut-scenes even after you've completed the quest and Guthix shows up in them.

 

(I would do it myself if I weren't a non-member)

 

 

 

His face however is covered with a green cloak

[Psycho_Robot]

My memory isnt so good bur during while Guthix sleeps , near the Stonehendge thing there was some .. image .. it looked like a Medusa dude (with some strange .. snake looking things for hair) and if the picture in wikia is correct .. well thats what Guthix should look like.

 

 

 

[hide=large image][/hide]

 

 

 

That what you're talking about?

 

 

 

That is Guthix's "preferred" form. He is a shape shifter, and can take any form he wants, but this skull type thing is the form he chooses most often, for reasons known only to him, apparently :lol:

[darkjab]

It's interesting that Guthix uses a skull form, much like the Mahjarrat.

[Misterknowitall]

It's interesting that Guthix uses a skull form, much like the Mahjarrat.

 

 

 

OMG, Guthix is a Mahjarrat!!!!!!

 

Or not ufcourse

 

Propably coincidence.

[darkjab]

It's interesting that Guthix uses a skull form, much like the Mahjarrat.

 

 

 

OMG, Guthix is a Mahjarrat!!!!!!

 

Or not ufcourse

 

Propably coincidence.

 

 

 

Yeah I was just throwing it out there, it is probably coincidence.

 

 

 

I'll leave other people to develop conspiracy theories :lol:

[Shuri]

That was an excellent thread. I enjoyed it while I was fishing today :thumbsup: .

 

 

 

My question to the community is now that we are putting "faces" to some lore of RS, do you think we will ever know what Sara, Zamorak, or Guthix will look like?

 

 

 

I surely hope that as new lands get released and more quests maybe some ancient civilization have made statues or something that gives us a sense of what the gods look like.

 

Mystery revealed! http://www.runescape.com/kbase/viewcate ... ?cat_id=19

[Shuri]

Oh and about the "Fresh from Frenskrae" thing. Could it be possible that some of the Dragonkin reside in Frenskrae? And if so, how did they get there? :ohnoes: I also found something in God Letters Issue 24

 

Dear Spiritual and mysterious, yet serious god of balance which i am not really familiar with yet, Guthix

 

 

 

I have several questions for thee and in able for thee to respond, thee must think carefully...

 

 

 

1. If there are three gods, then how does thy brother, Saradomin, has his own island, meaning Entrana, that is being inhabited by locals that only adore thy brethren, Saradomin? Don't you think that thou and thy other brethren, Zamorak, shall also have ye own island which shelters people that worship both thee and thy brother?

 

2. Do thee have any plans on this place you call "Gielenor"?

 

3. If we haven't discovered all of our planet, don't you think there is a place not located on any terrain here in "Gielenor"? Perhaps, something unimaginably mysterious beneath the seas, which we see almost everywhere we go.

 

4. Which city do thee think is most superior to the others?

 

5. I am not sure if thee has seen it all, but was there any other creatures that inhabited this place before that are now extinct?

 

 

 

That is all for now. I hope thee could answer my queries...

 

 

 

Darkmon12

 

(By Guthix) 3) If thou art asking of the city beneath the waves, it hath been submerged for many centuries, and most commonfolk consider it naught but a myth.

 

I tell thee true, however, that such a place doth indeed exist, and even as I write this there are those working to re-establish access between this place and the outside world that hath all but forgotten it over these past centuries.

 

Just musing...

[Misterknowitall]

That was an excellent thread. I enjoyed it while I was fishing today :thumbsup: .

 

 

 

My question to the community is now that we are putting "faces" to some lore of RS, do you think we will ever know what Sara, Zamorak, or Guthix will look like?

 

 

 

I surely hope that as new lands get released and more quests maybe some ancient civilization have made statues or something that gives us a sense of what the gods look like.

 

Mystery revealed! http://www.runescape.com/kbase/viewcate ... ?cat_id=19

 

 

 

I had already posted that

 

Scroll up

 

 

 

As for the city under water, are you suggesting that the Dragonkin might be residing there?

 

 

 

EDIT: might be the other part of the destroyed castle in the wildy.

 

Maybe it was part of a city

[Psycho_Robot]

Oh and about the "Fresh from Frenskrae" thing. Could it be possible that some of the Dragonkin reside in Frenskrae? And if so, how did they get there? :ohnoes: I also found something in God Letters Issue 24

 

Dear Spiritual and mysterious, yet serious god of balance which i am not really familiar with yet, Guthix

 

 

 

I have several questions for thee and in able for thee to respond, thee must think carefully...

 

 

 

1. If there are three gods, then how does thy brother, Saradomin, has his own island, meaning Entrana, that is being inhabited by locals that only adore thy brethren, Saradomin? Don't you think that thou and thy other brethren, Zamorak, shall also have ye own island which shelters people that worship both thee and thy brother?

 

2. Do thee have any plans on this place you call "Gielenor"?

 

3. If we haven't discovered all of our planet, don't you think there is a place not located on any terrain here in "Gielenor"? Perhaps, something unimaginably mysterious beneath the seas, which we see almost everywhere we go.

 

4. Which city do thee think is most superior to the others?

 

5. I am not sure if thee has seen it all, but was there any other creatures that inhabited this place before that are now extinct?

 

 

 

That is all for now. I hope thee could answer my queries...

 

 

 

Darkmon12

 

(By Guthix) 3) If thou art asking of the city beneath the waves, it hath been submerged for many centuries, and most commonfolk consider it naught but a myth.

 

I tell thee true, however, that such a place doth indeed exist, and even as I write this there are those working to re-establish access between this place and the outside world that hath all but forgotten it over these past centuries.

 

Just musing...

 

 

 

That's interesting! I must have overlooked it when I read over all those god letters in like a weekend. RS binge ftw! I'll add it to the first post

[Shuri]

That was an excellent thread. I enjoyed it while I was fishing today :thumbsup: .

 

 

 

My question to the community is now that we are putting "faces" to some lore of RS, do you think we will ever know what Sara, Zamorak, or Guthix will look like?

 

 

 

I surely hope that as new lands get released and more quests maybe some ancient civilization have made statues or something that gives us a sense of what the gods look like.

 

Mystery revealed! http://www.runescape.com/kbase/viewcate ... ?cat_id=19

 

 

 

I had already posted that

 

Scroll up

 

 

 

As for the city under water, are you suggesting that the Dragonkin might be residing there?

 

 

 

EDIT: might be the other part of the destroyed castle in the wildy.

 

Maybe it was part of a city

 

I apologize, didn't see you did that. #-o And yes, I think it's possible that the underwater city may be the other part of the Wilderness castle. It could possibly even be the other compass stronghold the KBD mentioned.

 

Thanks for the front page love, Psycho!

[K112]

Id like to say that this is THE best thread i have ever spent 30mins reading.

 

 

 

I haven't yet done WGS, but i thought i had all the imformation possible from it, i guess i'm wrong. Something that did catch my eye though; When Moravio talks about the "Lips of Guthix" and if they could drink the sea, or something of the sort.

 

 

 

I've contemplated this for a while, and i'm fairly sure that this is not a metaphor.

 

Maravio is an archeologist (sp?) or some sort, you speak to him a lot during the quest, and from what i've elaborated on, he is a SkEPTIC!

 

 

 

Skeptics wouldn't use something like this metaphoricly, i think he talks of it physically. Maybye they arent actually lips, but prehaps it is something to do with the ocean, maybye a bottomless cavern where water flows into?

 

 

 

But then the Underwater city thing caught my eye. Prehaps the 'lips' are a locking system or to be more precise an unlocking system of the city.

 

 

 

Only time will tell im sure :thumbup: But, i promise you, it is definetly something significant.

 

 

 

[hide=]

It's interesting that Guthix uses a skull form, much like the Mahjarrat.

 

 

 

OMG, Guthix is a Mahjarrat!!!!!!

 

Or not ufcourse

 

Propably coincidence.

 

 

 

Yeah I was just throwing it out there, it is probably coincidence.

 

 

 

I'll leave other people to develop conspiracy theories :lol:

[/hide]

 

 

 

Not a conspiracy theory as such;)

 

But it is interesting that both Guthix and Mahjarrat (Specificly: Lucien, Aktanakos, Enakhra and Zemouregal) all use a skull to display themselves most commonly.

 

Its also odd that a mortal (or almost a mortal anyway) can become a God by taking the power of another God, surely if a human did it they would be killed?

 

The Mahjarrat must be more closely related to the Gods than we currently think....

 

 

 

Prehaps it is coincidence, but you need to remember, this is JaGex, they like to make us think of things as coincidence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hows that for a first ever post?

[Psycho_Robot]

Id like to say that this is THE best thread i have ever spent 30mins reading.

 

 

 

I haven't yet done WGS, but i thought i had all the imformation possible from it, i guess i'm wrong. Something that did catch my eye though; When Moravio talks about the "Lips of Guthix" and if they could drink the sea, or something of the sort.

 

 

 

I've contemplated this for a while, and i'm fairly sure that this is not a metaphor.

 

Maravio is an archeologist (sp?) or some sort, you speak to him a lot during the quest, and from what i've elaborated on, he is a SkEPTIC!

 

 

 

Skeptics wouldn't use something like this metaphoricly, i think he talks of it physically. Maybye they arent actually lips, but prehaps it is something to do with the ocean, maybye a bottomless cavern where water flows into?

 

 

 

But then the Underwater city thing caught my eye. Prehaps the 'lips' are a locking system or to be more precise an unlocking system of the city.

 

 

 

Only time will tell im sure :thumbup: But, i promise you, it is definetly something significant.

 

 

 

While no one can say for sure, I think that this passage referring to the lips of Guthix is just a little joke that Movario told for himself, and not a metaphor or any object he truly believed existed. That said, I don't think Guthix has any lips, or even a mandible, in his preferred form, the floating tentacle skull of balance!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Zamorak however, appears to have some very full bodied lips *cough* collagen injections *cough*

 

 

 

[K112]

[hide=]

Id like to say that this is THE best thread i have ever spent 30mins reading.

 

 

 

I haven't yet done WGS, but i thought i had all the imformation possible from it, i guess i'm wrong. Something that did catch my eye though; When Moravio talks about the "Lips of Guthix" and if they could drink the sea, or something of the sort.

 

 

 

I've contemplated this for a while, and i'm fairly sure that this is not a metaphor.

 

Maravio is an archeologist (sp?) or some sort, you speak to him a lot during the quest, and from what i've elaborated on, he is a SkEPTIC!

 

 

 

Skeptics wouldn't use something like this metaphoricly, i think he talks of it physically. Maybye they arent actually lips, but prehaps it is something to do with the ocean, maybye a bottomless cavern where water flows into?

 

 

 

But then the Underwater city thing caught my eye. Prehaps the 'lips' are a locking system or to be more precise an unlocking system of the city.

 

 

 

Only time will tell im sure :thumbup: But, i promise you, it is definetly something significant.

 

 

 

While no one can say for sure, I think that this passage referring to the lips of Guthix is just a little joke that Movario told for himself, and not a metaphor or any object he truly believed existed. That said, I don't think Guthix has any lips, or even a mandible, in his preferred form, the floating tentacle skull of balance!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Zamorak however, appears to have some very full bodied lips *cough* collagen injections *cough*

 

 

 

[/hide]

 

 

 

Prehaps, but when the first person discovered a passage about the Stone of Jas, im fairly sure they didnt think someone named Jas had contracted Kidney Stones?

 

 

 

I'm sure there's more to it than meets the eye, maybye it will be eladborated on further in future quests by JaGex?

 

 

 

And anyway, since when has Moravio made a joke? Hes a bit too stuffed up his own, er, face ;)

[Saradomin_Mage]

Contrary to everything posted above, there is evidence that points to a completely different origin for dragon weapons. This next image is from TIF member Unknwnwrrior:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Frenaskrae is the dimension from which Mahjarrat are said to have originated. This is the first ever glimpse of the origin of dragon weapons, and it was put into the game a very long time ago. Before the Tail of Two Cats or the Dragonkin. Because of this, I believe that this dialogue has been left in the game BY ACCIDENT. I believe that Jagex originally planed to have dragon weapons be made by the Mahjarrat, yet they abandoned this idea later on, yet forgot to remove this bit of dialogue. I have no proof of this, of course, but it seems likely.

 

 

 

My two cents' worth:

 

 

 

Frenaskrae is the plane where the warriors who fought in the God Wars were called from. They were armoured well apparently, and were equipped with dragon weapons and armour before they were brought to Gielenor to fight. Thus, the case appears to be that Jukat (thought it used to be Jakut?) sells dragon weapons that came from this plane, from some stockhouses probably. Of course, they were made by the dragonkin, but then stored in Frenaskrae to arm the warriors.

 

 

 

Of course, that's pure speculation

[Misterknowitall]

Contrary to everything posted above, there is evidence that points to a completely different origin for dragon weapons. This next image is from TIF member Unknwnwrrior:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Frenaskrae is the dimension from which Mahjarrat are said to have originated. This is the first ever glimpse of the origin of dragon weapons, and it was put into the game a very long time ago. Before the Tail of Two Cats or the Dragonkin. Because of this, I believe that this dialogue has been left in the game BY ACCIDENT. I believe that Jagex originally planed to have dragon weapons be made by the Mahjarrat, yet they abandoned this idea later on, yet forgot to remove this bit of dialogue. I have no proof of this, of course, but it seems likely.

 

 

 

My two cents' worth:

 

 

 

Frenaskrae is the plane where the warriors who fought in the God Wars were called from. They were armoured well apparently, and were equipped with dragon weapons and armour before they were brought to Gielenor to fight. Thus, the case appears to be that Jukat (thought it used to be Jakut?) sells dragon weapons that came from this plane, from some stockhouses probably. Of course, they were made by the dragonkin, but then stored in Frenaskrae to arm the warriors.

 

 

 

Of course, that's pure speculation

 

 

 

What do you mean with that?

 

the only ones from Freneskae who fought in the God Wars where the Mahjarrat.

 

And they were brought here way before that.

 

 

 

No other warriors

 

That's my two cents, wich compared to your two cents is like fifty bucks.