RSD manifesto

[hohto]

My goal is not to hurt RSD. However Im aware that its not really from the wet dreams of that clans and in a short period of time it may cause more problems than help. The basic principal of writing this is to show the state of one top clan, give a chance for the other clans to learn from the mistakes done by one of the oldest clans and to show RSD that every coin has two sides. There are consequences for the things made in RSD and those have led into the current situation where the clan looks healthy from ouside but from inside its filled with diseases. I dont only say its ok for you to spread this post, Im infact now asking you to spread it as much as possible. Copy it to your clans forums, read it and think about the points: RSD is not an abnormal clan. It shares many common things with your clan too.

 

 

 

Hello comrades,

 

 

 

I personally am one of the oldest RSD members ever. Ive was part of that clan since RSC, I experienced majority of its important RS2 events and I could say that I got a slight idea what RSD used to be, what it currently is and where it is heading to. I started writing his post months ago, but now as Im not part of the clan anymore, I felt like it was time to release it. In this article Im trying to focus on the weaknesses this clan has and how could they be fixed. Before replying something like I should have done this while being part of the clan itself, Ill tell you this: I did discuss about the matters, I posted analyzes and basically only things I faced was the so called group hypnosis: people were too blind to see the forest from the trees and agreed with the same principals. Ive divided this into two chapters: the current and the future. In the current chapter Ive taken up 10 weaknesses. Ive concentrated on mental weaknesses, organizational weaknesses or whatever you want them to call. After this post started to become larger and larger, I was starting to think give it a proper name. It would have been rather dull to call it post about RSD or something like that after writing all these thousands of words. Finally the idea came from Kingarmato and his passion towards commenting me reading communist manifesto at one point. Thanks mato, you just gave an article to this article!

 

 

 

1. The biggest problem in RSD is currently that attitude I described: the blindness to see problems and the shyness to talk about things that arent right.. In most cases people dont have their own opinions and they tend to agree with the current policy. This has led into a situation where all game or clan requirement related modification suggestions are lynched almost automaticly. The best example of this are cases when I compare private convos to public debates: most people tend to go with the main lines in public and try not to cause any discussion.

 

 

 

I personally call this phenomena as a mass hypnosis. People dont tend to question the things said to them and just blindly follow, agree and defend them. This also has led into a situation where actual chances are hard to get as majority of the people dont think theres a better alternative. Failures and mistakes are too rarely fixed or even detected as the current system cant be questioned by the majority. Theres a huge number of examples about this in the RSD history, but if we look only this year, the best examples are the requirement questions, the number of members and their correlation.

 

 

 

19th December 2008 this case went to totally new level. We had a post asking what do you want from RSD? and people had posted their points. Some points were of course totally ignored, despite the fact that those points had caused the loss of multiple members, demoralized people and were discussed about earlier. After all the censor and other junk I decided to write a bit longer post. The reply from Icedrop himself came within hours. His message was quite clear: theres no problem in those and its not a proper suggestion as there supposedly wasnt a way to fix it. It was quite funny, seeing that let us disagree with the opinions or give us events on certain times too are quite self explaining: you shouldnt need to say how to fix those, its clear for everyone. However he also stated that its pointless to write as long posts as I did. Quite sarcastic how the shorter versions caused no discussion at all and my longer post bursted the buble and caused almost panic there. I know I didnt make new friends there either, but its funny how RSD members even pmed me at our irc server and said that I managed to make Icedrop look like a fool with his replies. His attitude just was that there are no problems and he tried his best to ignore all the negative stuff, just like we had earlier said.

 

 

 

What Ive seen, many people cant think the cases from multiple different points of view. This leads into a case where they agree with the majority and dont bother reading or listening to the people who disagree. It shouldnt be too hard to encourage people to post their own opinions and cheer them to actually say WHY they believe in their opinion. The current way of saying I think its ok is not how the clan gets furher, the line should be I think its ok BECAUSE

 

 

 

2. RSDs main attitude is that things are fixed because we are RSD. Theres been quite a lot discussion about the number of members and in most cases the answers were vaggerbondish do you think we sit here with thumbs in our arses? or were RSD. Yes, you are RSD and it looks to me that many people infact do have the thumbs there, at least by judging that comment and how the situation evolved. I heard that sentence multiple times on my last weeks of RSD and what worried me was the fact that people saying it were also saying that its the keyfactor to the success.

 

 

 

RSD believes too much into the attraction of the name and actions while it forgets the good old day recruiting. The problem has been noticed, people are trying but the problem itself cant be fixed when people are too blind to see the actual cause of the problem and the current situation as a whole. For ages the (after the removal of wildy) the number of members was quite the same. There was statistic about that and it was clear to anyone who wanted to see it: the number of RSD members was stagnated and it was explained by reasons that didnt depend on RSD. Same time the other clans managed to attract members who felt to the same combat category as the RSD members. In the other words if the problem wasnt in the clan itself, how could the other clans still keep growing?

 

 

 

No, RSD wont get anywhere just because its RSD. It has its brand, but the brand itself wont take it anywhere if the men and women behind it dont do the right things. From here we have a nice connection to my 1st point: Most people can see that RSD has a problem with the recruiting, yet many people refuse to either believe it or say it loud and even lesser number actually has balls to say that theres something wrong and something should be done. This has led into one major thing: the old loyal members are leaving in masses: RSD is the sum of the members and when the pieces change, the puzzle changes. However currently Icedrop seems to try to put the new pieces into old holes. Of course it doesnt work like that and the results are horrible.

 

 

 

The best example of this problem are the RSD analyzis on the top clan lists or how other clans should react towards RSD. When one RSD member was selling his item that would have required bounty hunter trading, he was wondering how people outside the clan scene wouldnt trust an RSD member. This clearly sums up the attitude: its not like every single person in RS would know RSD and what it is supposed to stand for. For second, RSD members tend to wonder why some clans are ranked above RSD and try to find anything from anti-RSD attitude to conspiracies to explain it. This is just one more example of the because we are RSD attitude: RSD should prove its current state all the time just like every other clan and not rely on some ancient history.

 

 

 

What Ive seen, its hard to get rid of this attitude. It has been there since the days of RSC and it has moved from a member to a member. Its so strictly there that removing it would need a lot of new blood to the certain ranks and some examples of showing that things can be done in other ways too. Currently it seems that the ones who actually can influence people are left alone, put aside or just ignored. This means that if RSD wanted a change, it should open a genuine path to share your opinions. By this kind of forum it would be possible for people to influence and get influenced. However theres some quite big buts: does RSD and the leading members really see any changes? Are they ready to get feedback thats not positive? Do they have guts to say that they areve done mistakes?

 

 

 

3 . Currently most of the ranks in RSD are given out for weird reasons. It seems that if you meet the following qualifications, you can get any ranks: you know the right persons, you meet the minimum requirements for the rank (i.e. been long enough in the clan) and you bother to app. Im not going to give names who shouldnt have gotten their ranks or who missed theirs due stupid reasons, but Im saying that currently the most suitable members are not always the ones who get ranks.

 

 

 

Is this a problem then? From my point if view its a huge problem. It has led into a situation where ranked people dont have the need to listen to normal members and do their job in order to benefit from it. The last few months have shown this really well. RSD tends to have pk events during certain hours and they wont change. We made a clear note about this, trial members have publicly said in multiple occasions that was the reason they didnt app for full membership, didnt even test the trial member period and eventually it was one of the main reasons why Im now clanless and writing this. The problem was made clear, a nice number of members agreed with it and people were even doing something in order ochange it. What happened? Nothing, RSD pk leaders ignored the need for a change and kept doing the thing that had already caused damage to the clan. Only reason for this kind of behaviour can be the selfish attitude. If they had listened to the members or wanted to actually help the clan, they would have done something. Its not a surpise that the pk times were made to favour the pk leaders.

 

 

 

If you want to get a good example of this, take a look at me. I for example was a moderator for ages and yet I dont feel like I should have gotten the rank in the first place. I wasnt active enough at the forums to spot things done wrong and I got strong opinions which Im not afraid to talk about. This led into a case where I could be in the middle of a debate which wasnt probably always the most suitable thing for a ranked member. Add this to the fact that I really rarely even did any modding, I find it weird how I could keep the rank for so long. However the funniest thing is that I lost my rank after I had been striked for something that wasnt even against the RSD rules. In other words there was no control on how you did your job and the written rules were only guidelines that could be followed.

 

 

 

From this we get into the point where some people talk about something and do the other. I find it humorous how Vaggerbond (in this case I just had to give out the name in order to protect all the other pk leaders) could talk about taking stuff seriously and listening to the pk leaders, yet same time his own actions distracted people from it. If a person can say the f-word 12 times in a minute (I infact counted this) and after that complain how I criticized him AFTER the event, I find it funny how he can talk about stuff like he talks about. This was just another example of the hypocricy amongs certain members who are supposed to be the backbone of the clan. By the way if you want to get an image of this, here are links to our private discussions after I had said I cant take a man seriously if he uses the f-word so many times in so short amount of time. http://koti.mbnet.fi/hohtava/vagger/

 

Note: Some of the pics are from 19th dec 2008. The first one was was sent to me after I asked him publicly how can he judge people the way ranked people do. That question was censored by the way. On later parts you can see how well the team work is in RSD: the brother of a coleader is threatening to get me kicked and benefitting from the role of his brother. After this episode I decided to make a picture of this case asking if its right and I posted it to our irc. You can guess how fast F1r3o came online (hes never in irc so it was a miracle) and the way how he started it made me leave in the end.

 

[22] Hohto

 

[22] <+Hohto> http://koti.mbnet.fi/hohtava/vag.png

 

[22] <+Hohto> comments?

 

[22] If you've got something to accuse me of mate you can say it directly to me

 

[22] Instead of being a [kitty] like usual?

 

[22] Or go and [bleep] and whine and do nothing if you'd rather.

 

[22] <+Hohto> how am I being a [kitty] when the brother of our leader threatens to use your account to benefit from it and use his family connections to benefit?

 

[22] Directly after you sarcastically stated he would do it

 

[22] And he sarcastically remarked at your pathetic level

 

[22] <+Hohto> directly after he had spammed my inbox after question marks, called me a [bleep], a [puncture] and whatver

 

[22] <+Hohto> 'with

 

Yup yup I get my inbox spammed, called with names, threatened and in the end Im the only guilty one

 

 

 

The way how ranks are given also reflects negatively to the public relations of the clan. Ive been talking about it for ages and Im not the only one who agrees with this. Its stupid how RSD can give irc ops or hops to people solely based on their ranks. In other words, RSD gives rather powers to people who dont use the irc than to those who use and who actually know what theyre doing. This is only one example how the RSD logic works: people who dont have a clue about irc and who app for something completely other (for example pk leadership) get rights in place where they dont even go to and same time people with the knowledge are ignored and usually said that theyre not trustworthy. I find it funny how much one single rank can do to the level of your honesty. A perfect example of this was Beckham69. When he set up the irc server for us, he obviously got powers. After we moved to Seers, he lost every single piece of powers and only had voices. Did he really become such an dishonest person after the server hop?

 

 

 

However its not this easy. I was told by Vaggerbond that I didnt help the clan by being a moderator in the past and not having a rank at that time and that the rank itself is basically useless. Quite harsh text, seeing that he had no rank by the time, my rank was taken away for false reasons and thus I couldnt app for other ranks AND basically what he said was that if youre not part of the 5% who has an important rank, youre not helping the clan. Not even if you had been in the clan for 3 years, held a rank for ages, gotten multiple awards in the clan, sacrificed hundreds of rune and range sets, wasted thousads of hours and written probably the most words in RSD. OK, if that effort means nothing, then how can you value the newer members at all? Basically it means that the rank is what gives you your value, not your actions to help the clan or your dedication to fight for it.

 

 

 

If RSD wanted to solve this problem, it shouldnt be too hard. By putting a bit more effort on looking every single side of the applicant isnt too hard.You dont really need to be an agent to figure out how to find out how the person acts in irc for example. Its not that hard to see how the powers are currently being used. If having a rank is the thing how irc rights are given out, why the hell dont you put up a secondary rank that gives you rights in irc? Ranked people are meant to serve the clan and the clan equals for its members. Why cant members get ranked people into charge if their actions are wrong? If you allowed an anonymous way to vote some ranked members away from their ranks, there would be actual ways to affect how the ranked people use their ranks.

 

 

 

4. RSD currently has no proper goals and hasnt had them since the second version of the bounty hunter came out. People can talk about being #1 and so on, yet nothing seems to happen. Ive been part of RSD multiple times when it has taken the #1 spot (legendary Di fght, last christmas DF fight, etc) and if I compare the attitute BEFORE the actual fights to the current situation, theres a huge difference. When RSD was going for #1, people were dedicated, the dedication seemed to plague from a member to member and the clan itself seemed to go further and further all the time. Theres a huge difference between that stage and the current stagnation.

 

 

 

Currently RSD claims to be f2p+p2p clan, yet same time the clan could go for months with only one or two proper p2p events. How can a clan call itself a p2p clan if it even doesnt do p2p? RSD claims that it cant set up fights as the other clans wont fight, however I dont think this is the actual problem. RSD could set up clan wars against horrible clans (for example clans that died over 400 times in 1.5 hours in f2p) but it couldnt find up any clans that would do p2p, not even with rules that would give a handicap? Seems weird to me. This was just one example of the difference between the talk and the walk: RSD can be p2p in their speaking but in reality RSDs f2p with few random p2ps.

 

 

 

During my last weeks in RSD people were comparing todays RSD to the RSD in 2007. Funny how in 2007 it was compared to the RSD in 2006 and so on. For many it seems that the reality is something unreal and irrational thoughts are ruling the thinking. The funny thing is that when people were doing the latest comparison, a funny quote popped out. It goes like Last year EVERY member we had was reliable and dedicated, we didnt even have to worry about turnouts, because they were always great, and we ALWAYS gained opts. Its funny because it shows clearly how lost some people are. Even though I dont fully agree with the line, it reminds the importance of goals. People dont even know what theyre fighting for at the moment. How are you planning to get people to return until the day after tomorrow if they feel like they arent listened and the result of the fight doesnt matter?

 

 

 

It seems that in RSD people have some kind of false illusion of being great. People are not ready to work to get anything or able to see the mistakes. Ive written about this already quite a lot and there are many chapters about it still coming. Thats just a result of the thing I had dedicated this section to: the lack of goal. Without a goal there wont be a thing to motivate people. However if theres an illustrated goal of being #1 clan, it can easily demoralize people. Without being able to see the weaknesses, the clan wont get even close to it. This constant failing of course doesnt help the clan and when the goal is set too high, it means that the fall is even more dramatic.

 

 

 

It seems to me that RSD doesnt know what it really wants at the moment and it is scared to take any steps to any directions. It follows the other clans and only does things that that the other clans do. RSD cant make its own decicions or set proper longterm goals to reach. If RSD was a serious clan, it would set itself a proper goal, a way to reach that and do anything in order to reach it. RSD did this before the legendary DI fight, before the DF fight and so on.

 

 

 

5. RSD cant threat old members properly. Theres stickied topics how to do it, yet theres a huge difference between the words and the actions. When Jaire for example was kicked (I agree that the kicking itself was justified), he was officially called a deadweight. How are you expecting anyone be like Ill do my best to fix it! after that? If all the years I had wasted for the clan was worth nothing, why would I want to rejoin? However it didnt end here: after Jaire decided to join DI, certain people (even ranked) became total idiots and showed no respect towards him. I dont see what else should he have done: he got kicked and by the actions made by the leadership it was quite clear that he wasnt wanted to the clan. This means he had no moral ties to RSD and yet people show him zero respect when he decides to join another clan.

 

 

 

I dont know about you, but at least Id like to get some respect for everything Ive done. RSD can mock members who have woken up really early to fight, stayed up till the morning to fight and sacrificed hundreds, in some cases thousands, of hours due direct events and indirect stuff like getting armours or making friends with other clan mates. If after everything that you can be called a deadweight and if you dont feel like coming back due that, your future choices can be judged by people. How does that help the clan to get back some members if they will changes?

 

 

 

There are other good examples too. Cruck Mage for example had been a loyal and good member in the past. He had left due a real life situation that led into inactivity. When we finally managed to re-recruit him, he was kicked after 8 days. For what? Of course inactivity! How can you even be inactive in that short of time? To make it even better, he had more events in those 8 days than I had had in 18. Does that sound right? Of course accidents could happen to anyone, but in RSD those accidents seem to more of a rule than a random misfortune.

 

 

 

This is not only a proplem with the current members. It also gives an image of a clan where you are doomed to be part of the RSD forever or become a reject in future. This kind of an attitude problem is not in my eyes something a clan that wants to attract members should have. Ive been personally wondering wether to app back in future or not and at the moment I have the feeling I wont, at least not in the near future. Why? Because of this exact attitute problem: respect is a two bladed sword and if you want respect, you have to be respectable. In my eyes RSD is ready to take the respectable actions done by you but not give the credit or respect for them.

 

 

 

6. RSD has weird ways of punishing people for breaking the clan rules and following them. It seems to me that there are written rules than can bend or break depending on who breaks the rules. This causes a moral dilemma where you dont always know are you breaking the rules or not.

 

 

 

I for example went to court in late 2008 for reporting our member in our clan chat and causing him a mute that way. This would be ok for me if I had broken any rules by the clan, but in reality there was no rule about reporting rsd member aslong as its not for the pk related spam. Well, in this case it was clearly offensive lines I reported and those lines had made people feel uncomfortable and leave the clan chat. In other words I was reporting him for breaking the rs rules but also for giving a bad reputation to the whole clan.

 

 

 

When I was at the court, there were people who actually had their doubts was it me who really reported. I leave it for anyone to decide was it really me, but I took the full guilt for it. This shows the problem: there was evidence, there was a muted character and there was me who said it was me who reported. Yet people were looking for points why it couldnt have been me. If you look at the whole picture, it was quite comical: I was being in court for doing something that wasnt against the rules and the court members werent even fully certain was it me or someone else.

 

 

 

To make the case even funnier, take a look at the RSD memberlist. There are members who are not the original owners of their characters, RSD has a rule to follow RS rules and yet that kind of stuff can happen. In other words you can break RSD rules without any problems and you can go to court for doing something thats not against the rules. Is this how an honest and mature community (or at least so called) works? In my eyes the rules are there for a reason and they should be followed. If they cant be followed, then they should be removed. This is how well things work in RSD: written words are worth as much as a promise from the worst NH clans. It means nothing whats said, written or promised.

 

 

 

Cruck Mages kickings could also be notified here again, but lets check another case. I already mentioned earlier and showed a picture of how Vaggerbound without any ranks threatens to get me kicked after he had called me with multiple names and spammed my inbox due the fact that he believed everythings right in a clan that prepares for 3 days to fight against DF and gets downed in an hour and suffers from many points Im mentioning in this post. I should probably remind you that he is F1r3os real life brother and thus there was a reason to take the threat seriously. At least so far I havent even gotten a notify from the court and I was once again ignored by the leadership on the case. It perfectly shows how the punishing policy once again works. At the moment it seems that outside of the leadership there is one huge tumour in rsd and thats Vaggerbond. Not many people can poison the atmosphere with real life slander, threaten then to get someone kicked and same time break the rules himself. Of course after that he can survive with his relations. Am I bitter to Vaggerbond? Not really, only few people have the gift of sending so many messages with so few words and same time having weird illusions of himself.

 

 

 

If RSD wanted to get rid of the rule problems, the solutions were pretty darn easy to find. Write a rule that the written rules are the ones to be followed in every single occasion, modify the follow RS rules rule (by for example on cases of the rule nr. 1) and actually put everyone into the same category. It seems to me that people can break rules if they are widely known: those people really rarely get reported and even in court they can get away without proper punishments.

 

 

 

7. The way how RSD arranges events does not reflect to the way how members have divided. This is once again result of the so called RSD mafia: the events are arranged to meet the needs of our pk leaders, not the actual members. This has multiple aspects starting from the event types ending to the event times.

 

 

 

Weve had votes on pk times and the message was cuite clear there. Its not hard to say that there was an order for events during one time and if the trial members had had the chances to vote, it would have been almost dominant. However still the events were all the time prefering few single timezones. What I experienced by myself and what I heard from people who decided not to app after their trial membership time, this was a real problem. It seems that RSD doesnt even want to give a chance for those who are from some weirder timezones. Id understand this if there was only few individuals, but in these cases the problem was quite a bigger: the number of people suffering was rather high and they had expressed their feelings. In other words, the pk leaders were in most cases far too selfish to actually listen to the members.

 

 

 

The second problem I faced was the rules in clan wars when that was done in p2p. In most cases the rules were set in away that benefitted the other clan: we couldnt use our high summoning average, in most cases the good items (=wealthy banks) were disallowed and so on. I would have understood this if the opponent was a lot weaker, but we did this even against clans that were by numbers at our category and in p2p experience ahead of us. This kind of events could have cheered people to actually work to gain wealth, work on summon and to show non-rsders that we actually are something. What did we do? We basically said we dont value your work on getting items or summoning and showed to the clan world that we can do welfare fights.

 

 

 

The setting of rules and event times has a perfect example. This happened on sunday 23.11.2008. We had first set a pk for that night, starting on a perfect time for gmt+2 unit which had been asking for an event for ages. Well, we ended up getting a fight against EOS. First of all, EOS was the clan that a big majority didnt want to fight. Weve had a bad history with them and their actions before the fight justified the doubts. They for example pmed the details to every member of their forums and showed totally zero respect before the fight. Ok, this was a bad thing but not worth a chapter alone. The second one was that it was made later and without a time limit. Once again an event started at 22:30 for the people who had put a lot of hopes of an event during a good time. Eventually RSD lost the fight as it lasted so long that gmters went to bed. The funniest part is still to come. The rules were made so badly against us that even though I heard a different story from few different sources, its hard for me to believe that we had set them. I find it funny how a clan like RSD can give all the advantages to the enemy. A normal or a wise clan would set either equal rules or at least try to get rules that benefitted them. So far we have the points that RSD itself have the advantage to the enemy, ignored its own members and arranged the event to help the pk leaders. These points were bad, but not the only ones. After setting up the worst possible event some really high ranked rsders started to censor all the critical posts and basically telling us to agree with them or be quiet. Is this how the clan events are set?

 

 

 

The main concern I have is the actual way of RSD events. Most fights currently last for hours and too many of them are short prep events. This means that it might be hard for you to schedule your weekends or nights. Same time most of the prepared events are either non-pk or they are pk trips where you dont have enough power to hit certain clans. I personally didnt really enjoy hiding at greaters and hearing that we arent strong enough to hit *insert clan name here* or something around that line. This means that if you dont have the possibility to stay up whole night being ready, you will most likely miss or get surprised by a good fight. This is a clear problem when you are trying to schedule your stuff and same time be active in the clan. Its not a problem if you live in the right timezones and you got nothing to schedule. If you dont meet those requirements, youre not in the best possible position. Its not only a problem for the individual that suffers from that. It reduces RSDs chances to recruit new people and keep the old ones.

 

 

 

8. RSD has turned from a community to a loose network of multiple packs of people. People can talk and talk how to get to know the new members better and how to keep up with the old members. However what Ive seen, this doesnt work in reality. I understand that you cant be friends with everyone, but what Ive seen, some people are fine by being only names on the memberlist.

 

 

 

It seems to be relatively hard to get to know rsders. We dont have a public team speak, our irc is almost fully occupied by the same people from years to years and the same problem is with our clan chat. If you want to get to know new people, you pretty must have to be a member. Otherwise youll get to know the 10 members who are active in irc and in the clan chat. How are you meant to get referals then? This leads into a situation where same people basically have to ref every new member.

 

 

 

The best way to notice this is to check the know the members topic in the members section. Some people are in game all the time but almost never in the clan chat or irc. This means that people dont really get to know them and in cumulates as dont know or never really spoken to answers in that topic. That should be a clear message: not only to the clan but to the unknown member too. How can you expect someone to be loyal to a clan when the clan is filled with people mean nothing to you? Why would I sacrifice 5-8 hours of my time for pkin and lose 10-20 rune sets during it? Just to benefit Mr and Mrs Nobody fighting next to me? Yea, for sure.

 

 

 

Another thing Im concerned about are the retired members. I understand its acceptable to give the old members a break if they real life situation doesnt allow scaping. However we have people with retired rank who havent been in any rsd events or gained any xp in over 250 days. However the funniest one was a member who had sold his account and kept the retired rank for a total of 100+ days without even having an rs account. This is more like a security risk in the form of leaking private information than an actual attempt to keep a good member. If someones been retired for 3-4 months, he/she either isnt coming back or should be dedicated enough to rejoin.

 

 

 

9. For ages the mantra in RSD has been quality over quantity and this attitude has caused problems in recruiting. RSD for example had the infinite run rule. This basically meant that a lvl 126 f2p with the ability to tank was autorejected while a lvl 114 f2p with no knowledge could get in. This is an exaggered example, yet it shows the dilemma we are facing.

 

 

 

RSD can get some mathematical average up at the cost of absolute power. This same applies to the pkin activity: RSD can praise their percentual activity and put down the opponents average while the raw numbers are cruel: 80% activity doesnt help if the opponent can pull 20 people more with 55% activity. I dont know about you, but if RSD really wanted to be the best of the best, it would need a lot more than this so called percentual activity. It cant rely on the fact that possible members cared about percentual activity more than winning a fight with a nice number of actual people fighting.

 

 

 

The paradox in this system is the fact that while keeping up with this quality over quantity mantra, RSD values certain additions more than the others. For example in the case I showed infinite run meant more than the actual wealth, experience, skills, dedication or leadership abilities. In other words, in RSD some secondary things are worth more than the skills or personal abilities. We faced this with many people. I personally know multiple people who either failed to app due the quest or didnt app in the first place due it. Same time people with a lot less pk experience, lower levels and less wealth were coming in. Is this the logic RSD wants to follow?

 

 

 

The problem described wouldnt be a problem if there was a lot of training in RSD. However it seems to be a total opposite. There are even ranked people who are saying they wont get past X level in summoning, magic, ranged and/or prayer. This woldnt be a problem if RSD didnt care about them, but infact they do: theres all the time talking about bringing up averages and getting X average combat next month. If ranked members can show that kind of example, why would the lvl 120s train either? It has become more of a rule than an exception not to train certain skills to 99 and use excuses such as costs too much or so, even by people who do have enough money and spend so many hours in game that making the money shouldnt be that bad.

 

 

 

If RSD made the application procedure easier and stopped using stupid requirements, such as special item requirements, the total power of RSD would rise a lot. Its not important is the average hp level 0.01 higher or lower than DIs average and it doesnt matter in the long run. It would be more important to have a high enough average and the highest possible hp1+hp2.+hpn where n is the amount of total members. If RSD also wanted, it could easily encourage members to train their skills that actually helped. Im quit sure this kind of thing wont happen with the current basemembers, though: it would require accepting the fact that the recruiting policy has been a failure and it would force people to change their opinions on training and the satisfying levels. Im relatively sure this wont happen in any near future.

 

 

 

10. This one is pretty much a compilation of all the first 9 steps or points. RSD should be ready to be able to adapt to the changing environment faster ad better while it should be ready to modify its own organization and fix the weaknesses. Currently it seems to be far too hard for RSD to change anything that is related to their organization and if anything new occurs in the clan scene, RSD definitely wont be the first one to benefit from it.

 

 

 

This problem isnt just something that has been haunting RSD since the early days of the clan. When RS2 came, RSD was one of the first clans that could have been taken seriously in that place. However when the MB trend rose and the no honour clans started to crawl out of their dirty caves, RSD almost vanished as it couldnt react to the change in the environment. Currently RSD seems to have that same kind of problems, however not (at least yet) in the same scale. Id also like to point out that the speed of the downhall is now slower.

 

 

 

The best way to look at this situation is to look at the leadership. The problem with RSD is not in small things: of course binding, TS calling or stocking up could be better but those arent the reasons why RSD is falling. The leaders draw the big picture and should be able to guide the boat to right direction. This of course didnt happen. From the leadership (leader+co leaders) only Godstruewill survives with no negative feedback here: you harvest what you have sown and he hasnt sown anything worth a bad word.

 

 

 

Icedrop was a great comrade and a high ranked RSDer, but as a leader he has failed quite miserably. He hasnt only managed to drive away multiple great persons, including ranked people, he has also managed to put the whole clan into a stagnated stage and later even managed to start a downfall. Same time people are praising his leadership abilities: I dont know is it due the blindness to see the situation or naïve belief that a leader cant do bad things. It actually reminds me of George Walker Bush and some hardcore republicans: even though outside it seems obvious that the leader has failed, the republicans are trying to put the guilt on other parts or just cant see the thing that the things done were not the right things to do.

 

 

 

F1r3o is a weird creature. Id say hes closer to a pk leader than an actual leader. He seems to be able to ignore all the negative feedback and somehow turn it into your fault. I dont know how is it possible that after almost being on our knees begging for even few gmt+2 based events he turns it into our hands. I dont know did I really understand him right but according to him I, a person who lost his rank due a stupid reason 1 week earlier, should arrange a pk instead of 7-8 pk leaders. I dont know how can he even expect me to do it: Im of course not satisfied with the way of leading and after I was judged to be non-trustable Im asked to do someone elses job. Same continues for ages: he can always turn out the point to totally minor things and argue that everythings fine, even when multiple people disagree with him. His strategy reminds me of the totalitarian state that seems to work in RSD: all the negative sides are being ignored and if possible, youre turned into the reason for something else.

 

 

 

Future:

 

 

 

This one was relatively hard. One or two updates, new members or leaving members could change a lot in the clan scene. However this is my assumption and I base it on the following facts: Im assuming upcoming updates are equally benefitting or harming the clans, the number of basemembers leaving clans is equal and that kind of members leave RSD as often as they do other clans and that no new trends rise.

 

 

 

Members: Im quite sure the RSD members number rises percentually at the same speed or a bit slower than in the other top clans. If RSD manages to start a good recruiting campaign it can catch them, but if this was gambling Id bet my money on some other alternative. If RSD manages to change the direction and get closer to the top, there will a nice number of glory hunters joining. However my prediction is that if we count somekind of an average number of members from the topclans and compare it to RSDs current number of members, it will be around the same in 6 months from now: there wont be an absolute growth.

 

 

 

Ranks: On this I dont think well see many chances. If we compare the curren ranked members to the ranked members from 1 year from now, there will be quite minor changes: some people have gotten higher ranks (like from a moderator to a court) but only a handful of the ranked people outside the pk leader rank have been in RSD for over 1 year. In other words Im saying that only 1 or 2 people who have joined after I published this post will have ranks 1 year from the releasing date. I dont count in the pk leader rank as it seems that literally anyone with nothing but a mic can get it, at least for a while. However Id like to add here that outside of EST and GMT, there has been only a handful of pk leaders in the whole RSD history. Percentually non-EST+GMT units are so heavily under representated that its almost impossible to believe.

 

 

 

Compared to other clans: Without major changes, preferably both organizational and mental, RSD will stagnate to the current position and not rise towards the clearest top. If I could now bet money, Id say that 6 months after the release of this post RSD will have good fights and it will be recognised widely, but it wont be a realistic name for the #1 clan. This is a result of the failure to adopt to the current clan world and its requirements. RSD doesnt listen to the members, their recruitment and event systems are far too inflexible and they got no real goal.

 

 

 

It seems that if we tried to make as objective top list as possible, RSD would be somewhere between ranks 5 and 7 when writing this part. However I do not find it hard to believe that within one year RSD wont be in top 10. This assumption is based on the facts that RSD doesnt even seem to want a change even though they are on a downhill. Of course this is a two sharped sword: bad things follow bad things and good things follow good things. Downhills usually lead into losing members and thus even increase the dropping speed.

 

 

 

In general: Im sure RSD will keep a lot of good members and get a lot of new ones falling into that category. Im also almost 100% sure that people who can criticize the clan they are in will find at least 7 out of these principals I listed earlier. In other words Im being pessimistic on RSDs ability to spot and fix the problems it has.

 

 

 

Without the help from Jagex, big changes in the clan scene require time. RSD still has all the chances to change the direction. They have a lot of great members, they have their brand and they are not too much behind the top. Things arent bad yet, but the direction is worrying. Theres much to do and Id estimate that RSD has only few months time to start changing. After that the difference between RSD and the other top clans might have become too big to catch in a reasonable amount of time. Im not saying that RSD should follow every single suggestion I made but if RSD wants to get somewhere, it must start changing step by step. Its impossible to estimate how many steps does it need to take, but without taking any steps RSD wont get anywhere while the other clans are getting even more ahead.

 

 

 

ending words:

 

 

 

It was surprisingly easy to write this article. During all the years in RSD Ive managed to see its downfalls, moments of glory and the normal everyday gaming. During all this I was able to start seeing certain patterns and ways of doing things and Ive been talking about them in the past: This was just putting my thoughts into the form of written language. The brain process was made earlier.

 

 

 

Ive been lucky enough to meet countless of wonderful persons and Ive had great moments in the clan. Theres many persons who have given me a lot more than I could have dared to ask and I will miss many of you. Im not giving names here, you know it yourself. However in the last 3 months or so Ive been losing my faith on the clan as a whole and despite the attempts to affect and change, I was quite clearly ignored by the ones who had power to do something. Of course I also did wrong things and I could have done certain things in a different way, I dont deny that. Im not sure was I always the best member, a good example or even the nicest person, but I hope I will be remembered as an honest person who was ready to say his opinions.

 

 

 

I probably will personally keep hanging around the RSD irc, maybe clan chat and read the forums every now and then. I was part of the clan for years and you dont just remove something from you as quickly as you remove a name from the clan memberlist. Im not completely ruling out the possibility of being in RSD one day, but at the moment I have the feeling that quite a lot should change before that happens. At one point I swore that Ill have only two otions for a clan: either a clan ran by me or RSD. However just like RSD has changed, Ive changed too. I currently wouldnt even think of leading a clan and I dont rule out the possibility of being part of some other clans.

 

 

 

The point of this article is not to strike against RSD but to wake up discussion wether the current way is working or not. Im not currently up for a huge debate wether all the points are accurate, however Im ready to hear your opinion. The point for not wanting the debate is quite clearly explained at the beginning of this article. Theres far too much stubborn people with ranks in RSD, far too many people are not ready to find out or hear anything negative (even realistic) comments and I dont have motivation to argue about a clan Im not even part of.

 

 

 

Ive posted this article in few different forums as I believe there are people who enjoy reading about the negative sides too at times. Id also be a liar if I said I didnt believe in RSD willing to censor this article if I posted it only at their forums.

[Gamerr]

Great post Hohto, was a nice read.

 

You could basicly copy some parts and replace RSD with The L.

[Enzock]

requesting a tl;dr version? :$

[The Observer]

Holy crap Hohto, amazing article. It made me look over the current systems and procedures of my own clan and see if they've been done right.

[Nobody]

Is this a rant or are people supposed to reflect on their own clans? Or is the clan world supposed to force RSD to change or by this manifesto force RSD to change?

[MooMix1]

requesting a tl;dr version? :$

 

 

 

Hohto is pissed at RSD.

[ThatCoolGuy]

I haven't quite read all of it, but I intend to do so.

 

 

 

That being said, I read the part about peoples minds thinking "because we're RSD". That's an attitude I'm glad I've really never had to deal with in Corruption.

 

 

 

RSD has always been like that as far as I can remember. It's inevitable that such a problem will catch up to a clan.

[Pan_Nx]

Interesting read. Definitely gave me a different look at RSD. Nice post.

[Beaumonde]

If it's really as bad as you say, and I'm hardly qualified to judge, all you can say is burn baby, burn.

[lord_troyus]

Great read.

 

Really shows how clans without a goal can go on drifting mindlessly and slowly start to - as you put it - stagnate.

 

Fortunately for RSD members even if things don't change within the clan itself, if runescape in a significant way it could force the clan to set itself a goal. I suppose the thing that the leaders fear "because were rsd" is change. Heck if unable to adapt it wouldn't be a quick drop for the clan, more a slow fall out of the public eye and top warring lists.

 

 

 

Really makes you wonder if your own clan has a good to keep it moving.

[Billy Key]

BK, being an old clan, with plenty of old members (we have maybe 80+ retireds :D) has had some similar problems to those stated with the whole "we have been alive for 8 years so there couldn't possibly be a problem with how things are run but I think we have come to realise that it doesn't work like that and I think that with one of the oldest leadership groups we have had (in terms of time in the clan, the lowest is a year and a half) we have one of the most open minded lots about being willing to change and I think the way we don't discount things that are said automatically because they may be troublesome is getting us places at the moment. We are all having fun. Saying that I also agree with how people in leadership are chosen. It may not always be the right people but BK has always allowed the clan to vote on leadership and then re vote in 3 months, so we have a consistant turnover in leadership which I believe is useful.

 

 

 

I am looking at the parts of that post that I read (most of it, I am in a rush though) and recognising it, fortunately I believe BK may be moving past that after being in the same mind set for the last 2 + years :D it is interesting although I can't say I agree with attempting to undermine leadership if that is what this is an attempt to do, that can also be a thing that leads to problems. A mutual sense of respect between leadership and members is to me one of the more important things that is needed in maintaining a successful clan.

[hohto]

A mutual sense of respect between leadership and members is to me one of the more important things that is needed in maintaining a successful clan.

 

 

 

Respect is a two bladed sword. Currently the leadership does *not* respect the members. This lead into a situation where the members don't respect the leaders. I'm now giving few examples:

 

* "Half the stuff he says is pure idiocy. The rest is back seat criticism and shows no respect for the officials who put 5x the effort he ever committed to this clan" Was a straight quote from Icedrop. Basically he shows there how much he values your efford or time and same time mocks everyone who agreed to the post. I can tell you that a huge number of people agreed to it.

 

* The wishes from the members were totally ignored in most cases. Even if something had helped the whole clan, it was ignored if it didn't help the leadership directly. A perfect example of this is the lack of gmt+2 events. Based on the number of members and trial members who left and then taking a small number of people from the right timezone who went to enemy clans instead of RSD, that ignoring has already cost 10+ members. This was known months ago.

 

* After Vaggerbond had once again spammed my inbox, I had been insulted in private and public and then threatened to abuse the rights of his brother (coleader f1r3o), I approached a court member. I was ignored, typically. I went public with this threatening. 2 minutes and our loved coleader came to irc first time in months and started calling me a whining woman genitals. Once again a perfect example how the leadership can handle situations where their brothers are involved.

 

* RSD has two mods in RSC. Count in 1+1 and you'll figure out who removed (yes, fully removed it instead of moving to junk folder or hiding like usually) my post. I've contacted their admins on this case.

[Billy Key]

I agree that it is a two handed sword but if there is a problem as there appears to be in this case then I personally would try to go about fixing rather than making a move that you know they will dislike. Maybe as a member of leadership in my own clan I am slightly biased :oops:

 

 

 

I can see why you are frustrated though :D and honestly I like the post, I found it pretty interesting :thumbsup:

[jcfc]

Interesting post. You clearly had no trouble thinking up the problems; none of the ideas seemed "strained". I would like to see RSD for myself before I make any assumptions, though.

[Coolsniper66]

First of all, I have to say that is easily one of the best posts I've ever read on this board. It's definitely making me look at RSD in a different light than I used to.

 

 

 

However, it's not only RSD that is facing those problems. 'The' is having many of the same problems. Everyone complains about how x y and z need to get done, but very few people, if anyone, take any initiative to get it done. Members have no respect for one another or staff, and (most) staff don't treat anyone with respect. Of course there are exceptions, but those are often easily forgotten due to some of the obscene actions/events that occur.

 

 

 

As for your section on rules, that's SO true in 'The' as well, and I'm sure it happens in every clan. The rules seem to be there just for show. Sure, you can follow the rules, but they're only a suggestion. If the rules seem to not be worth following at a specific time (ie: a "well known" member breaks a rule), then they're just ignored. It's rather pathetic.

 

 

 

All clans need to wake up and realize that they aren't perfect, and there's something they can change the make themselves better. Hopefully, they'll all do so, otherwise RS will be left with nothing but NH clans and very, very loosely knit clans that end up causing more hassle than enjoyment.

 

 

 

Once again, very very great post hohto.

[mab90]

Good post :)

 

 

 

 

However, it's not only RSD that is facing those problems. 'The' is having many of the same problems. Everyone complains about how x y and z need to get done, but very few people, if anyone, take any initiative to get it done. Members have no respect for one another or staff, and (most) staff don't treat anyone with respect. Of course there are exceptions, but those are often easily forgotten due to some of the obscene actions/events that occur.

 

 

 

 

The respect is fine in most cases I think. Only thing that does happen is people saying retireds can't know anything about the clan while I'm pretty active clanwise (just not rs wise), probably even more active then several people with a active rank.

 

 

 

What we miss though is a goal.

[Burgeri]

Good post Hohto. I can sense a little bit of own bitterness towards RSD in it too, at least I think so. I can understand it, tho, since I know you have such a long history with the clan. Wouldn't have ever thought you to give up carrying the name of RSD with you...

 

 

 

About the timezones, it's a problem in most top clans and I think I know the reason. Since fights stretch to late nights for GMT; US and Aus/Asia players are the ones who finally carry the fight to the end and solve the "winner" of the fight. I remember even DS avoided early GMT at some point, not allowing PK trips to be organized those times. All of the top clans carry on the fights for hours nowadays and GMTers are not bringing as much value as ones living in US and Aus/Asia, this is when we measure it in the result of the fights. This discrimination policy towards GMT from RSD means that in the end the member base will be more from US than Europe, meaning that RSD can last later into the night... It might be a good thing for performance, in the long run. If we look at TT, who sometimes do pull long night GMT fights successfully, still every now and then has the struggle for lasting extremely long in the battlefield and therefore prefers fights with timecap. I have an impression that TT has a very strong GMT base, especially from old TMRD and TRWF members. If I am wrong, please correct me about the TT information.

 

 

 

I know several people from Clan Europe applied to RSD but only very few (or one?) decided to carry on to the end, exactly due to timezones. I had personally encouraged some of these individuals to join RSD because of its reputation as a clan with mature member base (also because DI is the only big clan in clan world which does not allow their members to join CE while being in main clan - thanks to Lord88 - not that we'd even prefer to have members in that clan -.- ). Those who carried on joining to RSD, have stayed with us and found it as ok mix of coming to our few GMT friendly events and then doing late nights with RSD. This is not our advertisement, but it shows how GMT friendly events are lacking in several top clans and these missing spots have been filled by Europe based country clans.

 

 

 

 

 

About leadership problems, attitude and other things you've brought up about RSD here... It is hard to say any opinion. There are always two sides of a story and even though I have huge respect towards you, Hohto, there are also lots of things RSD have done well. I wouldn't treat the clan so harshly, however I am not an insider so I do not know the situation, I can only read what is said and make my own conclusions. Maybe you should have taken the offer of organizing GMT events, after all. When you're punched down to the ground... You need to choose whether you stay down and wait for another hit, stand up and fight or flee. I am sure there are plenty of friends of yours still in RSD and one single badly behaving individual cannot take your morale down, Hohto. Fight, as you've always said you would. Fight for your clan and its members. (As you are doing with the post.)

 

 

 

 

 

When I think about all the problems in our own clan... Geez, I can only get a headache. So many things need to be fixed, changed etc. But also very many things are working and we've even done some of them accidently correct. Thing is, when you fix one problem, you find two new ones, there's always work for improvement and that job doesn't ever end. There's also the thing you cannot please everyone, it's purely impossible - you have to make some choices and stick to them. Mainly I am just happy about the people around me, who are nice and I can count on them... That's all I need for a good base.

 

 

 

 

 

Tsemppiä sinnepäin, esteet ja ongelmat on tehty ratkottaviksi,

 

~Dimi~

 

 

 

PS. Merry Christmas all!

 

PSS. Almost 4 am to me and English is my second language, so don't mind my spelling mistakes/forgetting words middle of a sentence/strange grammar structure.

[Dbzruler72]

Main points I liked:

 

1. Listen to members--they are the clan, after all.

 

2. Stop being disrespectful.

 

3. Drop the cocky-ness.

 

 

 

 

 

I know other clans have problems too, but for a clan such as RSD to have an unstable core such as this surprised me. You would think for an old clan to have used their past experiences to help them recruit members, choose staff wisely, and stay responsible.

 

 

 

Despite the problems I mentioned, and the many others I didn't mention, I would like to see RSD leadership take on a more caring attitude. Kick some staff, promote worthy ones, and move it. I've always respected RSD, and this insight of their internal gears doesn't change that one bit. But RSD needs a revolution.

[Shakazulu]

Was it Plato's allegory of the cave you're suggesting with most of your points about RSD's problems? ... movies like pleasantville, truman show, and even 'the island' were movies based off the concept of Plato's ancient concept

 

took a decent half hour to read and gonna re-read it as I type this out

 

you took the effort to enlighten us so maybe I should take similar effort in a proper response

 

 

 

1. Leaders need to work as a team like a pit crew with different people who have different skills but ultimately all need to be ready to step up at a given notice; those who carry more of these

 

1.a Charismatic so that people will enjoy themselves in the company of such a leader - such leaders tend to keep a community together and draw in new people - also inspires people to step up - key characteristic

 

1.b Active in the game and ready to respond at any given notice - such leaders being available help with the daily management of the clan

 

1.c Common sense to identifying problems and realistic approach to solving that problem - each time there's an obstacle in the road, at least 1 leader needs to recognize what it is, and know how to maneuver through it with as few stragglers as possible... and if there are stragglers, work harder to make them catch up to speed... the gaming environment is subject to change at a given notice along with attitudes of the clan, such changes are important to recognize and respond to accordingly

 

1.d Organized/Mature/Disciplined - all go along with each other - a leader who is disorganized in any respect shows a clear weakness in their maturity which can be solved through some self-discipline; it's kind of a rite of passage of growing up though - in any field of life you go into, you need to have self-discipline as it is a characteristic of maturity and being organized; in terms of rs and clan leaders - forums, irc, ts, in-game clan chat, and messenger conversations - basically whatever form of communication/interaction needs to be thoughtful and relevant to the situation (be serious when it's time to be serious, be a clown when it's time to clown around)

 

 

 

With that said, I'd say you're suggesting that RSD is currently lacking in characteristics of 1.c and also later on you go into problems with 1.d

 

 

 

2. Lack of desire to change is usually due to fear of changing the clan from what made it get to where it is now... that we got to where we are now being what we are so whatever we did probably is right thing to do... problem is in particular with RSD is that you had a leader like Livinlarge who set most of the past traditions to ensure that when he left, the clan would keep going - primary reason I think he shut the clan down (sometime in 2004 to i think till livin's return in 2005) in the first place is that it was his brand - and that his vision of a clan couldn't be trusted to be carried out within a few generations of leadership changes - sure those who immediately followed under his leadership would have been directly influenced enough to know the way an RSD leader should be, but after a few leadership changes, along with new outside influences - it's only a matter of time when the original direction of the founder is lost and a new direction is taken...

 

 

 

With that said, it seems you're suggesting RSD lacks a leader willing to look into their situation and rethink the direction they're going... you can't be too hard on them for that... this concept is not easy to understand nor is it easy to carry out - I never knew livinlarge personally but being an outside observer of the clan community since 2002, i can suggest that he is an example of an RSD leader who was probably comfortable enough to change course if he truly believed it was in RSD's best interests

 

 

 

3. Ranks need to be defined and those considered for a rank need qualities which demonstrate they'd fit the job - those promoted on a whim shows a lack of organization and order; you go into more specifics which I can't comment beyond that such examples are surprising to see coming from a clan like RSD.... this demonstrates problems in 1.c and 1.d from earlier in my response... to be specific, it goes back to defining ranks and roles needed in those positions

 

 

 

4. Proper goals or a mission statement to give a sense of direction is simple enough - you do whatever it is to make the game experience more enjoyable for as many members as possible - catering to a select few while convincing everyone this is the way to go can help once in a while, but if it's the only means of going forward then it's nothing more then taking a drug without any real plan for improvement... however this goes deeper

 

 

 

In Clan Jaguar a similar situation was raised in that how do we conduct checks and balances - the importance of clan members having power to counter a leader who was leading in a direction that is not in the clan's best interests... the concept has been raised and we're pretty far into exactly how we're going to implement it, but yea... from retiring from leadership in 2003 to getting it back earlier this month, I was a member long enough now to see the need for clan members having power to counter a leader they don't want... I can't comment beyond this until Clan Jaguar fully establishes our check/balance for leaders...

 

 

 

5. Members who put their time into a clan deserve recognition above and beyond newer members and earned their spot as a permanent member. Clan Jaguar's view on this has opened us to a lot of criticism over the years, but it's the way we feel is right. It is not right to boot anyone who has proven their loyalty for years. We have procedures to keep people who are active and mark those who are inactive - but those who did all they could for at least 2 years, their mark in our community cannot be overlooked - should they earned their right to do as they please within the grounds of our Clan Rules...

 

 

 

Our clan needs to be loyal to our members, not the other way around... this is done by ensuring a system is there that no matter who is leading, that members who put their time justly into Clan Jaguar will be respected... there are still a decent amount of problems in our current system that our leadership team is working on fixing :)

 

 

 

6. Bias to support people leaders feel are more important into carrying the clan towards the direction they want is a problem in most clans... it's hard but not impossible to look at a situation as "a hypothetical" where you'd replace names of the accused with a noun - preferably a rank; that helps lower bias in making a choice and makes 1 think of the practical situation in terms of a hypothetical - which is less bias and more, dare i say, scientific :P lol

 

 

 

7. Recruit and expanding the membership base to include more timezones - Dimitrix replied here earlier however I'd like to point out he brought this up while in Jaguar and took this upon himself - he recruited a lot of GMT members and expanded our GMT base by recognizing the need for more GMT members and then hosting those events himself; although he eventually left for Clan Europe, this example is extremely relevant to the problem listed in your point 7; recognizing a weakness in the member base for a timezone and not actively expanding that base... we allowed Dimitrix to expand our GMT base but ultimately I think when he left with the core of our GMT base - we never managed to recover from that

 

 

 

8. Cliches - like highschool - you're part of the in-crowd or you're not in right? New blood is essential in the long run of all clans... having barriers to newer members and keeping those members is a problem for all clans who have lasted for a long time... the strongest time of Clan Jaguar was when we were a united clan and we were weakest when we were a divided clan - those who have the ability to inspire unity hold true power and others who force unity are those who simply desire power

 

 

 

9. Quality over quantity was the argument Zenoic Force members would state to those of Gladiatorz during their multiple flame wars on these boards years ago (not sure if you'd recall) but that argument never worked for them as Gladiatorz beat them in every single war.

 

 

 

Cherishing each member for attending events is important more then being upset when members don't attend events... when you stress the fact that you only have such and such % active and such and such % inactive - you discourage those who are active; best to focus on those who are active and inspire others to join in on the fun :)

 

 

 

if you want to be #1 then you'll have to sacrifice these ideals - therefore you have to choose between being the ideal long-term clan or the clan that will do whatever it takes to be #1 - I was asked by Killa1213 if I'd ever push Jagz to be #1 again and I flat out refused - never would I put members of our clan into a position where they feel obligated to fight continuously for hours upon hours and for what? recognition by those outside of our clan that we're better or worse? no way... and I'm surprised by the amount of people who feel they have to fight fights that last all day long... .

 

 

 

don't want to bash clans like Corruption or TRWF as they have taken a long time to reach the level they have though which is something I respect of them - so please don't assume I'm talking about your clans guys ;)

 

 

 

longest fight I ever was apart of was on September 13th 2003 against Rs Mob which lasted 8 hours in RSC... of the 8 hours I lost my personal desire to lead my group of Jagz a little bit before 5 hours started... anyways back to present day, the need for practice is essential when it comes to choosing who to pile, piling, binding, spamming, re-organizing, stepping off from runners, and tanking... those essential skills as a group take practice and need to be individually worked at...

 

 

 

10. Summarizes your points and your personal takes on the current RSD leaders...

 

 

 

with that, i'd like to avoid your personal comments on the future of RSD with your critiques on their members, ranks, and comparisons to other clans

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Best of luck in what you do Hohto, I hope my response does justice to your analysis of RSD... if not I'm sorry :o

 

 

 

~Shak

[hohto]

2. Lack of desire to change is usually due to fear of changing the clan from what made it get to where it is now... that we got to where we are now being what we are so whatever we did probably is right thing to do... problem is in particular with RSD is that you had a leader like Livinlarge who set most of the past traditions to ensure that when he left, the clan would keep going - primary reason I think he shut the clan down (sometime in 2004 to i think till livin's return in 2005) in the first place is that it was his brand - and that his vision of a clan couldn't be trusted to be carried out within a few generations of leadership changes - sure those who immediately followed under his leadership would have been directly influenced enough to know the way an RSD leader should be, but after a few leadership changes, along with new outside influences - it's only a matter of time when the original direction of the founder is lost and a new direction is taken...

 

 

 

I don't really see the problem in Livin leaving. He sure was a great leader, but by the time he already had started to give more privileges to lower ranks and thus made the change easier. I'd also like to point out that there's only a handful of non-ranked members left from Livin's era and quite a few of non-ranked people haven't been really under Livin's direct influence. RSD didn't dive really after he left and for a while it seemed like a nice change.

 

 

 

Now Icedrop has had enough time to show what he has to give and so far it seems that he has had nothing to offer. IMO it's not the ghosts from the past that are causing problems, it's more like the current inability to do anything. A good leader should have been able to handle the brand's special characteristics and modify them to meet his skills, vision and the current needs. Icedrop has a long history with the clan and he has been going up in ranks slowly but surely. He if someone knows what RSD is/was. That's not his problem, the problem is the lack of his own vision.

 

 

 

I'd personally say that the problem is the lack of doing anything instead of doing something that failed. It seems that the current leader is not able to take a direction: he more like wants to avoid risks and thus causes inability to react to the changing things. By avoiding risks RSD doesn't take a huge and fast dive, but slowly falls. This can be seen by reading the people posted top lists for example: RSD's direction is slowly going down from what it was a year ago, yet it's impossible to show any exact places where that downhall had started. Usually when the top clans are in a slump they dive fast and can point it to some certain things: RSD for example has history with V3 incident and the MB failure. That's a great way to show how fast the clan dived and how the reason could be easily mentioned.

 

 

 

I'd also like to point out that if Livin's "brand", "vision" or whatever you wanna call it was followed, this kind of problems wouldn't occur. Livin was a man who could take even radical changes if he believed they could help the clan. During Livin's time RSD went through many major changes. Now with Icedrop RSD has done its best to avoid changes. There's a huge difference and it's definately not "following the brand".

 

 

 

5. Members who put their time into a clan deserve recognition above and beyond newer members and earned their spot as a permanent member. Clan Jaguar's view on this has opened us to a lot of criticism over the years, but it's the way we feel is right. It is not right to boot anyone who has proven their loyalty for years. We have procedures to keep people who are active and mark those who are inactive - but those who did all they could for at least 2 years, their mark in our community cannot be overlooked - should they earned their right to do as they please within the grounds of our Clan Rules...

 

 

 

I'm personally a fan of equality. In my eyes same rules should apply to you and me, no matter have I been around years longer. It's true however that in most cases old members are listened more and they usually tend to have more realistic opinions on the case. They know the past so they can understand the current.

 

 

 

My main concern is about the respect towards older members who leave the clan. There's many people who can take it maturely, but I'd like to show few examples. Sniper Dude left RSD around 2 weeks ago due RSD's and his own wills regarding the fight types didn't match. He apped to DI and when I heard about this, I of course asked him if it's true as I don't have an acc to check that. He mentioned that quite a few old RSD members didn't like the decicion at all and basically flamed him for it. Second was for my case. All these quotes explain the situation quite well.

 

 

 

If he had brought these points up whilst he was in RSD then im sure more people would have read it;

 

^Same person who had been clearly against everything I wrote. He forgot to add that I infact had talked about the exactly same things for months already and was censored. Not to mention he later said he only read the first 1k words.

 

 

 

Just a post of a bitter guy who never showed dedication at fights and just thought that writing a long post would make a difference.

 

^ No dedication at all is quite harsh, especially when there's only a handful of people who have been in the clan longer than I. And yea I'm quite sure my post did make a difference: there's a lot of discussion going on, multiple rsders have actually rethought their motives and so on.

 

 

 

did you ever think maybe people like YOU are the reason rsd is on its last leg? You flame a guy thats been in rsd for so long just because he makes a post trying to help you guys. You wonder why almost every ex rsd member hates you? Its because you treat people who left like trash and act like the never contributed to rsd, but, when we were rsd, we were all high and mighty. Hohto put in more time and effort into your [cabbage]hole of a clan than you ever will and all you can do is flame him along with the other people who got sick of the lies and empty promises from your [cabbage] leaders

 

 

 

The fact you'll flame him and wont actually read the post says alot.

 

 

 

You dont have the time to read his post but you have the time to for hours argue blindly with people about it afterwards. Even if you dont read it all at once, just do it in parts?

 

 

 

well not being funny but ironically jasper not even reading the post and defending rsd/flaming etc is exactly what a certain part of it was about, and was obviously spot on.

 

 

 

i just left because the P2P died, but yeah as soon as you leave you get flamed by 70% of the members, my leaving post even got hidden minutes after i posted it, which if i remember contained a few of them points.

 

^The last quotes showing how RSD is seen in the eyes of people. Ex members are getting flamed for leaving valid (IMO) reasons and ignoring the reasons. Note: THESE COMMENTS ARE POINTED TOWARDS RSD, THEY DO NOT COME FROM RSD.

 

 

 

7. Recruit and expanding the membership base to include more timezones - Dimitrix replied here earlier however I'd like to point out he brought this up while in Jaguar and took this upon himself - he recruited a lot of GMT members and expanded our GMT base by recognizing the need for more GMT members and then hosting those events himself; although he eventually left for Clan Europe, this example is extremely relevant to the problem listed in your point 7; recognizing a weakness in the member base for a timezone and not actively expanding that base

 

 

 

RSD has/had (it's slowly crumbling to dust) the core members for the timezones, not just the will to please them. At least few weeks ago more pk's for gmt+2 times got a lot of support, infact at some points equal amount to the busy hours. The problem wasn't lack of members from the timezone, but more like will to even try keeping them pleased, satisfied or so on.

 

 

 

Cherishing each member for attending events is important more then being upset when members don't attend events... when you stress the fact that you only have such and such % active and such and such % inactive - you discourage those who are active; best to focus on those who are active and inspire others to join in on the fun

 

 

 

I'd like to add too that percentual activity doesn't win the fights: if two clans have the same kind of dedication, wealth, organization and so on, the clan with more raw power (=people) win, not the one that has percentually more. It also may work as a good excuse for yourself that you at least pulled 100% of your memberlist, but for the public you were still the loser. How does that improve recruiting?

[ValaraZ]

Thank you for this post.

 

 

 

As i'm not very familiar with RSD apart from the occasional posts i see from Ice in RSC or the battle reports i unfortunatelly can't comment on all the points.

 

 

 

However, the points are in many parts valid to our clan. This post inspired Coolsniper to make a post of his own on our forums and managed to point out flaws in our system. We listen to his opinions, see what others feel about them and then plan a change for the parts that need fixing.

 

 

 

There should always be room for criticism, without it there can be no real change as it's too small circles pondering same stuff over and over and it won't lead to anything. Look at finnish government and their great suggestions on regarding student's for example. Or nuuska, prkl.

 

 

 

You have inspired us to improve as a clan, as individuals and as a community.

 

 

 

~Val

 

 

 

ps. Tsemppiä, toivottavasti RSD nyt tajuaa virheensä. Tosin korkealta on vaikea nähdä alas ja jos ei pidä kaikkia jäseniä saman arvoisina niin kustahan sinne ylös on tainnut kertyä. :)