The Godsword is the Highest Level Player Made Item

[NukeMarine]

Got your attention? Think that I'm lying and/or have no clue?

 

 

 

I'm not posting a rant, just an observation. Consider what qualifies as a player made item. A player sometimes takes ingrediants, sometimes tools, sometimes a specific area then with a certain skill generates an item. For a log, this takes a tree, an axe and the woodcutting skill. For Black Dragonhide Chest, this takes thread, needle, tanned black dragonhide and the crafting skill. For Tele tablets, you need clay, runes, spell, and a lecturn. Etc, Etc, Etc.

 

 

 

Back to my catchy title. Why not consider a drop from a monster a player made item? Using a specific skill (atk, range, prayer, etc), you use a specific area (Sara boss), with a specific tool (unicorn, another godsword), and in time generate a Godsword. You can apply this to any and all monsters that drop something. You're using your combat skills to generate items.

 

 

 

Great, so I'm stating the not so obvious but makes sense if you think about it type of thing. What's the point Poindexter? Jagex is calling 2009 it's "upgrade" year. Consider that with combat skills in the 70's, you can solo the Kalphite Queen and generate Dragon chain. With cooperation, you can generate a Godsword. Isn't it about time Jagex starts increasing the variety of high level items players can generate outside of combat? Why should the best player made items be delegated to the combat sub-set of skills?

 

 

 

Please note, I'm not saying someone with 99 in one skill (like smithing) be able to make a Blood sword. However, what's wrong with a player with 98 in smithing, crafting, firemaking, and mining be able to generate an Obsidian chestplate using a process that takes about 6 hours of time of his time and 2 million gp (gathering material by both purchase and non-tradeable means then processing it). Would that be any different than a player with 98 in Atk, Prayer, Defense and Summoning taking 6 hours and lots of gp in Sharks and prayer pots soloing the Kalphite Queen likely getting 1 or 2 Dragon Chains?

[Danqazmlp]

I just skimed your post and i'll reply fully when i've got this prayer level, but aren't spirit shields and d plate the same premise as a godsword, and take higher levels to make?

[Star_Fox]

not gonna happen. its fine the way it is. (btw i read the whole thing.)

[NukeMarine]

I just skimed your post and i'll reply fully when i've got this prayer level, but aren't spirit shields and d plate the same premise as a godsword, and take higher levels to make?

 

 

 

Don't get distracted by the specifics in the post. This is not about the godsword. It's that all high level items in the game tend to be generated only through combat. Even the D plate takes combat to gather the parts, though a relatively tame level 92 smithing to put them together. Off topic: I wished Jagex had made the D Chain one of the needed items to make a D Plate. Would have kept the value of the D chain higher.

[NukeMarine]

not gonna happen. its fine the way it is. (btw i read the whole thing.)

 

 

 

A. What's not going to happen?

 

 

 

B. What's fine the way it is?

 

 

 

In a discussion, it's good to be clear about what you're talking about.

[Amundogus2]

Indeed a very good idea. And if you do lvl 99 requirements in, say, 5 different skills it would most likely require cooperation to aquire this/these almighty item(s).

 

 

 

Or you could give the ability to enhance exisiting items with your skills. Say at 90 crafting you would be able to attach silk to the inside of your armor, leather, robes for extra performance. Or at 90 herblore you could make and smear a mixture on your clothes to make you completely poison resilient \ There are hundreds of possibilities probably. They would all of course require that you had the actual skill lvl, and it would not be possible to trade these items to other players unless you removed the boost from the equipment.

 

 

 

Any ideas on that?

[Forerunner]

I like your theory/idea. Jagex should consider using skills & combat in unison to generate items, aswell as using skill-made only & combat-generated only items.

[Danqazmlp]

I'll re-reply now seeing as i'm 90 bones short of pray level and they on't buy at max.

 

 

 

Its a good idea, but it brings a few questions with it.

 

 

 

If it doesen't take combat to aquire some items, would they give combat bonuses and why?

 

 

 

What sort of items?

 

 

 

Also its kind of hard to aquire items outside of combat, because unless it requires random puzzles or something, its hard to make non-combat things hard and challenging.

 

 

 

Also factor in risk/reward of items gathered in combat too.

[NukeMarine]

Please note: I'm not offering this as a suggestion thread. I've made a very detailed suggestion in the past dealing with producing high level items using a combination of skills and non-tradeable intermediate items. Basic idea being that you and only you can make this item if you had the skills and then put in the time to gather the material. No sharing the effort.

 

 

 

How to justify higher level items.

 

 

 

1. Risk - When I did Barrows or Kalphite or Steel Dragons I did not really risk too much barring a lag at the wrong time. My "production" skill of combat was high enough that none of these could kill me in a manner that I lost items of high value. That's akin to lagging out with the poison plant random. Still, risk is introduced either by roving monsters, traps, the path to get to an area, damage taken gathering items or producing them, etc.

 

 

 

2. Effort (skills) - If you didn't know, you need DOUBLE the xp of one level to gain 7 more levels. So level 97 is twice the xp of level 90. A person with 85 in 2 skills has the same xp as someone with 92 in 1 skill. So a person with 85 in 4 four skills has the xp of someone with 99 in 1 skill. You can argue the guy with 85 in four skills has put in effort. More so those with level 98 in many skills.

 

 

 

3. Effort (time) - How much time does it take to gather the materials or process them? One way is you have a long travel time to get to an area (say, level 9 of pyramid plunder, bottom of Karamja, etc.). Another is have it take a long time to randomly acquire the item.

 

 

 

4. Time (waiting) - There's a right way and wrong way to do this. The wrong way is long respawn times. This only encourages world hopping (shades of runite rock). The right way is attach time to the player. Consider a made up item called the Spirit Bow. Imagine one of the ingrediants being the roots of a Spirit Tree. Seeing that you can only have 1 spirit tree at a time, and it takes 5 days to grow, you're not getting many of these items very quickly.

 

 

 

It's not difficult to think of ways to make the above tedious enough to justify high level player made items. In none of them are combat with high level monsters really necessary.

[hatebringer]

Well I did read your whole post, and for some reason, I do agree with your idea in someways. The main reason that combat usually produces the high end items is because most skills are in-fact assist skills to combat in a sence, and usually every skill is tied to combat. Fishing supplies food, runecrafting supplies runes, etc. Now, the way you describe combat being like a process, and spending 6 hours at a boss monster and achieving a good drop, and then using skills in a similar manner to create a high-end item looks good in theory, but when put to the test never comes out the same way.

 

 

 

I believe combat is the main way to deliver items in the game is the best way simply because of the unknown outcome. People can spend weeks, even months at a boss monster, killing it with teams, and never receive a single drop. However, on the one lucky note, the person could score a break, and get a rare drop, and make a good lump of cash.

 

 

 

Then there is skilling, which almost always has a 100% chance of profit depending on which skill. So while combat may take long to reach a point where players can attempt the rarest of drops, the skillers have a steady income. If a high end skill based item was released, it would most likely be a 100% income based method, and a 100% chance of that item being released into the game.

 

 

 

If its a little difficult to understand what I'm saying, as I did word it a bit odd, then consider:

 

Runecrafting v. GWD Hunting

 

 

 

Runecrafting turns out an automatic profit, but GWD hunting is never a definite money maker. Some trips can be dry, and you can lose money, btu when you hit a really good drop, it can beat out skilling profit by a large sum.

 

 

 

Now consider:

 

If runecrafters could create a (not real) Rune gauntlet which are worth more than a pretty penny, then chances are that it would be a definite creation if it is completely skill based. It may take a little work, lets say about 2 hours, but when completed, it could be sold for much more profit than runecrafting those 2 hours. And, it would be a definite boost, while Combat never receives a definite reward. Not to mention if the item is very valuable, than everyone with the required skills would make it non stop until the price wouldn't match the effort. This would be caused by oversupply of the item.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So in conclusion, the reason combat is used for high-end items is because it makes the item a rarity and never reaches a point of oversupply (for the most part)

 

 

 

The only way I could see a skill-based high-end item would be if you could only make 1 per day, and it would take an extremely long time (such as mandatory pauses while the item cools, grows, forms etc. ) otherwise the item would be rushed through for production and sale. But then this would make a low supply and huige demand, and then a giant price tag. So I really don't know how it could be implemented, but it does sound like a pretty good idea if powerful items made without combat.

[NukeMarine]

Hatebringer, combat generated drops are not that random. If you take the random argument to its extreme absurdity, you have a chance to get a Mage Log on every chop while another player has a chance to NEVER get a mage log. Given time, you will average about 1 mage log a minute. Likewise, given time (and number of kills), you will average a D Chain drop from the Kalphite queen every 100 kills.

 

 

 

As for limiting supply, you are correct. But this is no more than me saying: Ok, in order to make Drakan Armor Plate, you'll need (in addition to other stuff) five Anthracite. Anthracite is untradeable and can only be gathered from Coal rocks. However, you must have 85 mining and even then it's a 1/500 chance of getting Anthracite instead of regular coal. Ok, right there, you require a player with 85 mining to spend on average 5 hours to get material to make Drakan Armor. Yeah, it's random so he could get all five in his first minute. Then again, he could spend 10 hours and not get one Anthracite. Now see what I did? Players that fight monsters for "rare" drops also get not so rare drops that have value. With the Anthracite example, the player will be getting coal but might luck into the more valuable Anthracite.

 

 

 

Heck, look at the Spirit Bow example, where a Spirit Seed is needed so you can grow a tree (83 farming) that you must cut down (85 woodcutting) to dig up the roots to spin (85 crafting) into a Spirit Bow String which you can make into a Spirit Bow (85 fletching). The limiting factor would be the Spirit Seed which is difficult to get via woodcutting, and pricey and time consuming via Manage Thy Kingdom. In addition, you have to wait five days per each.

 

 

 

I can come up with dozens of ideas to justify that non-combat skills can make high level items and still be on par with the difficulty of combat drops.

[No_99_Melee]

Hatebringer, combat generated drops are not that random. If you take the random argument to its extreme absurdity, you have a chance to get a Mage Log on every chop while another player has a chance to NEVER get a mage log. Given time, you will average about 1 mage log a minute. Likewise, given time (and number of kills), you will average a D Chain drop from the Kalphite queen every 100 kills.

 

 

 

As for limiting supply, you are correct. But this is no more than me saying: Ok, in order to make Drakan Armor Plate, you'll need (in addition to other stuff) five Anthracite. Anthracite is untradeable and can only be gathered from Coal rocks. However, you must have 85 mining and even then it's a 1/500 chance of getting Anthracite instead of regular coal. Ok, right there, you require a player with 85 mining to spend on average 5 hours to get material to make Drakan Armor. Yeah, it's random so he could get all five in his first minute. Then again, he could spend 10 hours and not get one Anthracite. Now see what I did? Players that fight monsters for "rare" drops also get not so rare drops that have value. With the Anthracite example, the player will be getting coal but might luck into the more valuable Anthracite.

 

 

 

Heck, look at the Spirit Bow example, where a Spirit Seed is needed so you can grow a tree (83 farming) that you must cut down (85 woodcutting) to dig up the roots to spin (85 crafting) into a Spirit Bow String which you can make into a Spirit Bow (85 fletching). The limiting factor would be the Spirit Seed which is difficult to get via woodcutting, and pricey and time consuming via Manage Thy Kingdom. In addition, you have to wait five days per each.

 

 

 

I can come up with dozens of ideas to justify that non-combat skills can make high level items and still be on par with the difficulty of combat drops.

 

 

 

No.

 

 

 

You could get a bandos chestplate every kill or never at all... It is completely random because Jagex uses a random script in order to code it. Not exactly sure how it works, but it's basically like the script chooses a random number between 1-100,000... if the script hits number 99,999 you get a b pl8. The script doesn't then say "Well he tried once so let's bring the odds to 1-99,999" it remains 1-100,000 and therefore each kill gives you the same odds as getting a drop as the last kill.

 

 

 

Anyways. I pretty much agree with everything hatebringer said dealing with supply and demand. If a player can make it and it's costly then they will continue to produce it and bring more supply into the game. Moreso than a random monster drop would.

[Hiierarch]

Sort of No_99_Melee, but it's more like a spinning wheel with numbers 0-99,999. It spins upon the death of the monster and if it lands on a number between (for the sake of the explanation) 78,999-83,999, then you go onto the second spinning wheel which contains all the possible items within Jagex's rare category. That wheel spins instantaneously and lands on a random item. Each item has it's own percentage of 100%, giving some items a higher chance. For example, Bandos;

 

 

 

 

 

Chestplate: 20%

 

Tassets: 20%

 

Boots: 20%

 

Shards 1-3: 30%

 

Hilt: 10%

 

 

 

Imagine a circle graph or spinning wheel with those items on it, with areas corresponding to their percentage, that's how much of a chance you have of getting those items. The first spinning wheel also has a certain percent chance of getting a spin of the rare wheel , if you land within that range then you get the second spin, as I said each item has it's own range.

[NukeMarine]

 

No.

 

 

 

You could get a bandos chestplate every kill or never at all... It is completely random because Jagex uses a random script in order to code it. Not exactly sure how it works, but it's basically like the script chooses a random number between 1-100,000... if the script hits number 99,999 you get a b pl8. The script doesn't then say "Well he tried once so let's bring the odds to 1-99,999" it remains 1-100,000 and therefore each kill gives you the same odds as getting a drop as the last kill.

 

 

 

Anyways. I pretty much agree with everything hatebringer said dealing with supply and demand. If a player can make it and it's costly then they will continue to produce it and bring more supply into the game. Moreso than a random monster drop would.

 

 

 

Look, changing what I said then arguing against it is not good discussion tactic. Here's how random works: I can roll a six sided dice 6000 times. Now, there is a CHANCE that the number five will never come up in all of those rolls. However, it's absurb to use that in a reasonable discussion about chance. In those 6000 rolls, you're going to get about 1000 fives come up. That's a reasonable discussion on chance.

 

 

 

That there's a random chance for a dragon leg drop from Steel dragons, it's absurb to say "Well, there's a chance I can kill 10,000 of them and not get a drop" as an argument. Cause that chance is so low as to be pointless. It's like comparing the drop of D Chain from a Kalphite Queen (1 in 100) to that of Dust Devils (1 in 10,000). Yeah, you don't get it every 100 kills, but on AVERAGE should you kill 10,000 kalphite queens, you should have ABOUT 100 D Chain drops.

 

 

 

This is simple mathematics here.

 

 

 

Anything can be made more difficult to create or get. You increase: Tedium, Time, and/or Cost. If something cost 5 magic crystals to make, then the cost of the final product will be near cost of five magic crystals. As these are pricey items, fewer players will make them. If something takes you 6 hours to make, players will make them and charge what they think 6 hours of their time is worth. If no one want's to pay that cost, people stop making it. If something takes 5 days to wait to get, then players will know that the item enters the game slowly. All these are ways to limit supply. Player made items can be just as limited as the player made items we call combat drops.

 

 

 

On the opposite side, there has to be a demand for the items. If everybody wants it, then the cost goes up. If the supply is too high, demand is filled and cost goes down.

 

 

 

This is simple economics. People "mined" the abyssal for whips so much that the price dropped from 30 million gp down to it's current price. That it was a "random" drop did not matter cause over enough kills that "random" drop was still a consistant drop. The whip is still a player generated item like the rune plate. You're just "making" it in a different way.

[No_99_Melee]

 

This is simple mathematics here.

 

 

 

If something takes you 6 hours to make, players will make them and charge what they think 6 hours of their time is worth. If no one want's to pay that cost, people stop making it. .

 

 

 

1.You show me the equation that allows you to get heads every time you flip a coin.

 

 

 

2. How will players charge what they think is the fair price with the ge?

[NukeMarine]

If you want to talk absurdity, it won't be with me. However, I'm feeling sarcastic, so I'll answer. Now, if you used a two-headed coin, the mathematical chance is 100% assuming you don't count the times it lands on it's edge, and a flip is guarenteed each time. If you used a 1 headed coin, the mathematical chance is 1 to 1. If you used a coin with no heads, it's a 0% chance. If you used a coin with 20 sides and one of them is heads, then the chance is 19 to 1 against getting a head.

 

 

 

So, for your mathematical formula, you have to tell me

 

 

 

A: Which type coin I'm using.

 

B: How many flips (very important for the formula).

 

 

 

Where did I say people will charge what they think is a fair price? They charge what they want, people pay what they want. If the two intersect (and an item is part of it), then you get what's called a transfer. The trick is that merger of item a person wants to sell (supply), that item a person wants to buy (demand), the person actually having the item and wanting to sell it at a price, and a person having the cash and wanting to buy the item at that price. It can get pretty complicated, but it boils down to simple supply and demand.

[No_99_Melee]

So, for your mathematical formula, you have to tell me

 

 

 

A: Which type coin I'm using.

 

B: How many flips (very important for the formula).

 

 

 

Where did I say people will charge what they think is a fair price? They charge what they want, people pay what they want. If the two intersect (and an item is part of it), then you get what's called a transfer. The trick is that merger of item a person wants to sell (supply), that item a person wants to buy (demand), the person actually having the item and wanting to sell it at a price, and a person having the cash and wanting to buy the item at that price. It can get pretty complicated, but it boils down to simple supply and demand.

 

 

 

A. A quarter (2-sided)

 

B.1000 (I want the exact amound of heads and tails you will recieve)

 

 

 

People are willing to buy D claws for 100m and sell for 100m, but the ge won't let them. So once again how are people going to buy and sell for what they want?

[tripsis]

Yes I did read your whole post. I still do not consider an item dropped by a monster to be a "player made item." Players do not "generate" drops. They get lucky and receive them. They do not produce or create them. I do not consider woodcutting to be the PRODUCTION of logs, or mining the PRODUCTION of ores. You obtain those items, yes. But you do not create them yourself. Same goes for items dropped by monsters. Players obtain those items, but they do not create them.

[NukeMarine]

No_99, you keep changing your request. First it was the mathematical formula for all heads (in answer to a two sided coin flipped 1000 times, that's 2^999-1 to 1 against). Put bluntly, that's winning the California powerball lotto (a 1 in 100 million chance) about 40 times. Now you want exact numbers which doesn't play into the discussion. So again, you want to be absurb, I will not answer your critiques and questions.

 

 

 

Tripsis, you make a great point that killing monsters is akin to cutting down trees or fishing. You're either getting finishing products or products that can become something else. So combat skills are EXTRACTION skills, and not PRODUCTION skills (well, Magic is a production skill at times, with alchemy and enchant).

 

 

 

However, that's splitting a hair. It's still a limited set of skills for the EXTRACTION of high level items. With other skills, such as fishing, mining or woodcutting you're limited to 1k gp items or 15k gp in case of mining, but not guarenteed. Now, as Boss monsters require multiple skills and effort and cost to extract items, it's not a stretch to think similar difficulties and cost can be place on other extraction skills. Then just further apply that to production skills.

[Sir_Kurity]

I think it would be a great idea. This game relys far to much on combat to get decent items.

[Daviduhlich]

I agree that it would be nice to see a little more creativity in where new items come from. I think treasure trails are probably closest to what you are talking about. They are normally time consuming, some require you to have the right items or have access to an area that requires a quest, and you never know what you will end up with until it's too late.

[Maximusa]

Ignoring fact none of that is player made when its being gathered; Its when being processed and turned into something new. What they would be better off doing is keeping combat how it is, including a few skill based activities such as pyramid plunder for getting items - Is let the individual skiller create items that only they can use. Even if its simple customisation that add no stats. I rather they included some actual stat bonuses though. This can be done to require multiple skill stats.

 

 

 

It means the person has to go through the effort. It doesnt have to be easy.. It can involve time and effort. Depending on the item it could degrade or stay forever. Its unique to the way combat creates items - More suited for skill stats.

 

 

 

It can assist with the combat stats making it easier to gather monster dropped items. Everyone wins and it wont be possible to use these boosts without the needed stats. It wouldnt be assistable by other players.

 

 

 

Making skills like combat (luck based) is not worth it or practical solution. Creating items is unique from getting drops. The fix should be addressed differently. Although it is possible to get items through skilling -Based on luck- I dont think its a good solution as its less fun than combat is otherwise better suited for.

 

 

 

As it currently is most "player made items" (Gathered) are not based on luck so have no value compared to luck based items. So just make it so you can do some amazing with an item which only you can do.. being grateful you can do something someone else cant if they dont have the skill level for it. Gaining you an advantage over them that you earnt.

 

 

 

There is nothing wrong with skill based -luck- activities but its often less fun. The pyramid plunder thing for example sucks for fun compared to combat. For the mass of people playing anyway.

[Maximusa]

I agree that it would be nice to see a little more creativity in where new items come from. I think treasure trails are probably closest to what you are talking about. They are normally time consuming, some require you to have the right items or have access to an area that requires a quest, and you never know what you will end up with until it's too late.

 

 

 

Thats actually a kinda good idea somewhat but then incredible hard to implement. Its like.. Some person gets a mission to create an item. Talking to an npc you get offered a job. Requiring skills.. They go through 4 stages.. Running around and doing random stuff (Like in clue scrolls but slightly more skill based) Then hit a wall when they cant do the last stage. It kinda sucks for them. Not fun. You might end up with a usable item but then.. Maybe so do thousands of others? With this same half made item.. Making it worth nothing. Raising the question - Why bother? The ones with the actual levels may never get the required mission to create the item. The xp would suck most likely too. Plus the item lol.

 

 

 

Otherwise it has to be based on luck that a item is created successfully after some rigmarole. A chance of it braking for example. You go through 10 stages with the chance of it braking increased through each step. If it survives the final step.. wola! A new item.

 

 

 

Unless it works better than I can imagine it sounds like a sucky way to spend the afternoon. With combat you dont lose much besides cheap supplies or nothing at all. With a system like this for skilling the supplies needed would certainly cost more making it less attractive. Killing monsters you get a chance of a drop. Skilling you get guaranteed misery.. It might mean the prize is worth ALOT but I dont think its worth it as it feels to me like gambling with a high rate of failer. It might work but I dont think its a good idea for gameplay.

 

 

 

Which is why I think skilling needs its own solution not based on luck or outside influence deciding its worth. It makes more sense the skill grants something special to the player that no one else can use. That owns a godsword anyday imo. I dont mind if it means spending hours working on it.

 

 

 

Think what customisations they could add to smithing.. Requiring the level to make the armour look cooler. Add boosts to the armour etc. It works well with herblore etc too. Aslong as its NOT tradeable - Or a weaker version that is tradeable.

 

 

 

It doesnt fix skilling itself when it comes to making luck based items which are tradeable as a valid worth while skilling option, but people seem happy as it is already. My point is atleast it gives the player a useful item and an achievement. An achievement that is otherwise ruined when someone else before them can -sell it- to other players. Eventually making it worthless.

 

 

 

The sad thing is they could both do that and have a sellable version.. Thats not -quite- as good as the person who can make it themselves.. with upgrades. That aint runescape though so there no point dwelling on it. Its a shame they dont put the game through its great deal of potential to be the best though.

 

 

 

A GREAT way to add something usefull to skilling is making slayer monsters only drop a special item when assigned for example. Its based on the slayer skill rather than combat. Its hard to be assigned the task and gives a reward to that skill.

[Defy]

Please note: I'm not offering this as a suggestion thread. I've made a very detailed suggestion in the past dealing with producing high level items using a combination of skills and non-tradeable intermediate items. Basic idea being that you and only you can make this item if you had the skills and then put in the time to gather the material. No sharing the effort.

 

 

 

How to justify higher level items.

 

 

 

1. Risk - When I did Barrows or Kalphite or Steel Dragons I did not really risk too much barring a lag at the wrong time. My "production" skill of combat was high enough that none of these could kill me in a manner that I lost items of high value. That's akin to lagging out with the poison plant random. Still, risk is introduced either by roving monsters, traps, the path to get to an area, damage taken gathering items or producing them, etc.

 

 

2. Effort (skills) - If you didn't know, you need DOUBLE the xp of one level to gain 7 more levels. So level 97 is twice the xp of level 90. A person with 85 in 2 skills has the same xp as someone with 92 in 1 skill. So a person with 85 in 4 four skills has the xp of someone with 99 in 1 skill. You can argue the guy with 85 in four skills has put in effort. More so those with level 98 in many skills.

 

 

 

3. Effort (time) - How much time does it take to gather the materials or process them? One way is you have a long travel time to get to an area (say, level 9 of pyramid plunder, bottom of Karamja, etc.). Another is have it take a long time to randomly acquire the item.

 

 

 

4. Time (waiting) - There's a right way and wrong way to do this. The wrong way is long respawn times. This only encourages world hopping (shades of runite rock). The right way is attach time to the player. Consider a made up item called the Spirit Bow. Imagine one of the ingrediants being the roots of a Spirit Tree. Seeing that you can only have 1 spirit tree at a time, and it takes 5 days to grow, you're not getting many of these items very quickly.

 

 

 

It's not difficult to think of ways to make the above tedious enough to justify high level player made items. In none of them are combat with high level monsters really necessary.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think not.

 

 

 

Level 3 - xp = 174 ........... 174 x 2 = 348 xp .................. Level 3 + 7 = level 10. ................... Level 10 xp = 1154

 

 

 

Level 13 - xp = 1883 ....................... 1883 x 2 = 3766 ....................... Level 13 + 7 = 20. ................. Level 20 xp = 4470

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

I'm going to agree with Tripsis here and say that a receiving a drop from a monster isn't a player-made item. A player-made item is something that came into the game through the direct result of one or more resources combining together to make a final end-product, much like ore, bars, ruined Dragon, and so forth. Combat skills can't really be seen as extraction skills, since it's been discussed many times before that this game is too random for this.

 

 

 

Consider that the algorithm that Jagex uses to generate their random drops is similar to Java's Math.random() function. This will generate a number in the interval of [0, 1). This means that the numbers used here are infinitely tiny, meaning that there is a possibility of hitting the drop always, once, more than once, or never. That is what Combat is -- it's possible to get an Abyssal Whip drop once, twice, or never, depending on how many times you do it. My feeling is that Jagex uses a different method to produce "random" drops, which slightly increases the chance of getting a really good drop from any one monster with every lousy drop.

 

 

 

Now, consider extraction skills. That algorithm is probably on a similar interval, but skills greatly boost the chances, all but guaranteeing that you will get what you're gathering, whereas with Combat, your luck is left pretty much up to however many ticks from midnight it is.

 

 

 

Oh, and if you're interested, I wrote a quickie Java program that did 1,000 flips of a coin ten times. Here's the result.

 

 

 

makoto@LATLON-Charon:~/code/Java$ java CoinToss

 

How many times did you want to flip the coin?

 

1000

 

The coin landed on heads 512 times, and on tails 488 times.

 

The coin landed on heads 473 times, and on tails 527 times.

 

The coin landed on heads 530 times, and on tails 470 times.

 

The coin landed on heads 510 times, and on tails 490 times.

 

The coin landed on heads 513 times, and on tails 487 times.

 

The coin landed on heads 511 times, and on tails 489 times.

 

The coin landed on heads 500 times, and on tails 500 times.

 

The coin landed on heads 504 times, and on tails 496 times.

 

The coin landed on heads 500 times, and on tails 500 times.

 

The coin landed on heads 498 times, and on tails 502 times.

 

 

 

 

Edit: @Uber_Leetness: Read this.