The Godsword is the Highest Level Player Made Item

[stormveritas]

The critics of the thread have created tangential arguments that don't really pertain to the main point.

 

 

 

As a writer on staff, I can sympathize with the author in that respect. :-)

 

 

 

I think the biggest development we could see involves an easy way for Jagex to rebalance the game away from being combat only: rare "extractions" that are timely based on high level non-combat skills.

 

 

 

I absolutely -love- that idea, because presently the game's chief rewards for quick-turnaround, luck-based income is ALL combat.

 

 

 

It would be easy enough for Jagex to implement trees that drop something special (hello, bird nests!) which can then be used to create something valuable.

 

 

 

This could very easily give a great shot of energy to skills like mining, smithing, crafting, etc. which all lack enough long term reward to generate an incentive to level the skill.

[NukeMarine]

 

 

2. Effort (skills) - If you didn't know, you need DOUBLE the xp of one level to gain 7 more levels. So level 97 is twice the xp of level 90. A person with 85 in 2 skills has the same xp as someone with 92 in 1 skill. So a person with 85 in 4 four skills has the xp of someone with 99 in 1 skill. You can argue the guy with 85 in four skills has put in effort. More so those with level 98 in many skills..

 

 

 

I think not.

 

 

 

Level 3 - xp = 174 ........... 174 x 2 = 348 xp .................. Level 3 + 7 = level 10. ................... Level 10 xp = 1154

 

 

 

Level 13 - xp = 1883 ....................... 1883 x 2 = 3766 ....................... Level 13 + 7 = 20. ................. Level 20 xp = 4470

 

 

 

Well, gosh, you got me there. Here I was talking about high level skills and you prove me wrong with low level numbers. It's like I made a comment that men generally outweigh women on average by 50 pounds and you post the average weight of 8 year olds to prove me wrong.

 

 

 

However, let's show my rebuff to your rebuff using the skill levels I mentioned:

 

 

 

Level 85 xp - 3,258,594 (x2 - 6,517,188) (x4 - 13,034,376)

 

Level 92 xp - 6,517,253 (x2 - 13,034,506)

 

Level 99 xp - 13,034,431

 

 

 

Now, I know that four level 85 skills is 55 xp lower than one level 99 skill. And we all know getting those extra 55 xp is MUCH harder than that oh so simple 13 million xp. However, let's stay on point and consider it close enough for government work and move on.

 

 

 

Look, this isn't grade school or the RSOF. Saying one part (and irrelevant to the main discussion) of an argument wrong, does not invalidate the entirety of it.

[Zaaps1]

Spirit shields and d plate are higher.

[NukeMarine]

The critics of the thread have created tangential arguments that don't really pertain to the main point.

 

 

 

As a writer on staff, I can sympathize with the author in that respect. :-)

 

 

 

I think the biggest development we could see involves an easy way for Jagex to rebalance the game away from being combat only: rare "extractions" that are timely based on high level non-combat skills.

 

 

 

I absolutely -love- that idea, because presently the game's chief rewards for quick-turnaround, luck-based income is ALL combat.

 

 

 

It would be easy enough for Jagex to implement trees that drop something special (hello, bird nests!) which can then be used to create something valuable.

 

 

 

This could very easily give a great shot of energy to skills like mining, smithing, crafting, etc. which all lack enough long term reward to generate an incentive to level the skill.

 

 

 

Yeah, part of it's my fault in answering all the tangents and being a bit sarcastic about it.

 

 

 

Again, I did not want this to be a suggestion thread. One, Jagex ain't gonna read it, so it's moot to get all detailed. And two, it quickly can tangent off the main point which is we need high level player made items. I was trying to argue that high level drops like divine shield and godswords are "player made", but Tripsis pointed out it's better to think of these are "player extracted" like sharks, mage logs, and runite ore.

 

 

 

Granted, that created the ways one goes about balancing player created items. I say you increase number of skills (that cannot be shared or assisted) needed to make an item, add in tedium, add in cost, etc. Now discussions along those lines are worth going off on tangents. Kind of like the bit of getting a rare chance at an item from common training, then using that item to make an even better item.

 

 

 

Anyway, thanks for bringing me back on point. I'm of the mind that just like a warrior that combines Attack, Summoning, Prayer, Hitpoints and Magic in a manner to get some good income (decent drops on average, uber drops on lucky few times); then a skiller should be able to combine skills for decent income on average, but some lucky high income now and again.

 

 

 

Granted, anyone who read the tread "How am I lucky" realizes that luck is just skill over a long period of time for the most part.

[imaerehw14]

I see the argument that you only obtain high level, useful combat items through combat, and not through other skills that also take time and effort, but that's also just the point. Does anyone else but me think that it's smart to only let certain high level combat items be obtainable through combat? Why should someone with 99 woodcutting get a nest with an armadyl hilt in it? The risk simply does not amount to the reward given. A better idea in general would be updating the game this year (as jagex has promoted through their Behind the Scenes 2008) and give skills more rewards at higher levels, not necessarily being armor and weapons, but something valued towards the skill you were training.

[bedman]

Very good idea.

 

 

 

Could be something like dragon imps too. (some high lvl rock that randomly moves around (lol?), or ... (no inspiration).

[chazzycaz]

I think the idea is great, its a pity this thread has been so wrapped up in its own complex formulae and fancy calculations, when it really doesnt relate to the main point of the author....

 

 

 

What you guys always assume that the end product will be something useful to PLAYERS and that will be sold on the GE for a set price, so that PLAYERS can buy it and use it...

 

 

 

What if these miniquests for high level skillers work much like the quest "One Small Favour"?

 

The player is asked to do a task, which he then performs to get the item, then he must continue to do more tasks!

 

 

 

Lets say a player has 90... umm... CRAFTING! and 90... umm... FLETCHING! (ugh, not really hard to get though is it)

 

 

 

Either way, this player will look down an imaginary list of grand things to make, maybe in the KB or in game like the Skills menus. The player will choose a legendary item which he is then going to make! He will then set across RS, doing random tasks for people who have the ingredients to make the final product - lets say... THE BOW OF ARMADYL!! Obviously it wont actually be the bow of Armadyl, this is either a hasty example or one which will actually work if you TRICK an NPC into buying it.

 

 

 

Finally my actual point to this long and boring post: An NPC (you heard me!) will then want to buy this bow, as he is captured by its brilliance and excellent craftmanship! (Not literally)

 

You will get to say an offer for how much money you want for the bow, although obviously he will only pay a range of the set price, say 2 MILLION!.

 

 

 

Now this is a guarenteed 2 MILLION!, you make the bow and you sell it for 2 MILLION!

 

 

 

This price will not change, although perhaps you may make only 1 of each legendary item each month or some other limitation. (Limitation you hear! But that may not be necessary)

 

 

 

Lets say, as others have, it will take 6 hours approximately to carry out the tasks needed to get the item, even with guides and such, the items needed will be untradable - like OOMLIE WRAPS!

 

6 hours, to get 2 million GP, that is like 333k an hour profit. When you think about it, its not that high, there are many more ardeous grinding ways to make better cash. (With skills, not GWD)

 

 

 

That leaves this method as something new, a different method to make money, instead of the grinding of skilling. And perhaps the requirements for these legendary items will increase and increase, and the final price will increase and increase!

 

 

 

 

 

Wow, I wonder who will notice first that I made my post saying "Maybe an NPC can buy the final product" into a long (and brilliant) suggestion post! =D>

[No_99_Melee]

No_99, you keep changing your request. First it was the mathematical formula for all heads (in answer to a two sided coin flipped 1000 times, that's 2^999-1 to 1 against). Put bluntly, that's winning the California powerball lotto (a 1 in 100 million chance) about 40 times. Now you want exact numbers which doesn't play into the discussion. So again, you want to be absurb, I will not answer your critiques and questions.

 

 

 

Hmmm it seems like you want to avoid my arguement at all costs now. What I'm obviously trying to say is that the supply is controlled by monster drops because monster drops are completely random and cannot be produced according to the player's whim. That's why you can't create high level items because then they would be too cheap. There are over a million people playing runescape... If you were to have a new high level creatable then whoever can make it will constantly make it until there is an oversupply of them.

 

 

 

Alright now counter this with a "No 99 Melee you seem to be talking nonsense. Let's move on.."

[Misterknowitall]

No_99, you keep changing your request. First it was the mathematical formula for all heads (in answer to a two sided coin flipped 1000 times, that's 2^999-1 to 1 against). Put bluntly, that's winning the California powerball lotto (a 1 in 100 million chance) about 40 times. Now you want exact numbers which doesn't play into the discussion. So again, you want to be absurb, I will not answer your critiques and questions.

 

 

 

Hmmm it seems like you want to avoid my arguement at all costs now. What I'm obviously trying to say is that the supply is controlled by monster drops because monster drops are completely random and cannot be produced according to the player's whim. That's why you can't create high level items because then they would be too cheap. There are over a million people playing runescape... If you were to have a new high level creatable then whoever can make it will constantly make it until there is an oversupply of them.

 

 

 

Alright now counter this with a "No 99 Melee you seem to be talking nonsense. Let's move on.."

 

 

 

But that's not the point of the thread is it now?

 

I also think skills should have a new way of moneymaking. Some cool 40 mill (or so) worth items for skillers might be a great introduction in the game. As long as they are not too common.

[No_99_Melee]

But that's not the point of the thread is it now?

 

I also think skills should have a new way of moneymaking. Some cool 40 mill (or so) worth items for skillers might be a great introduction in the game. As long as they are not too common.

 

 

 

The point of the thread is to suggest that skills instead of combat should create high level items sometimes. I'm saying it would hurt the economy to do so because with an oversupply of high level items they would become too cheap and everyone who plays will be able to afford them in turn using the high level item to obtain other high level items crashing nearly all markets.

[RSBDavid]

Technically you are right. But you are also wrong in a way. We don;t technically generate the pieces for the God sword. Through the programming language designed by Jagex (which is based of JAVA) , when the monster is killed, a piece of the sword is dropped (at a random frequency). You PUT these pieces together using the smithing skill. I do believe the Non-combat should be in twain with Combat, but not in the same manner as you are suggesting. Actually, I think it is just fine ,at the moment, the way it is. Higher level equipment and armour will come soon :P.

[Zierro]

No_99_Melee has a point. Go up to any typical Magic WCer and ask them how many hours it will take to get 100M. Don't accept any unspecific answers. Go up to any typical GWDer and ask them how many hours it will take to get 100M. Don't accept any unspecific answers. The GWDers will have far more diverse answers. Skills serve as a linear method of obtaining items. Combat isn't really like that at all. No one is ever guaranteed a D Chain drop.

 

 

 

Personally, I think a better idea would be the ability to kill certain monsters with your skills. (Like burning a Tree Monster with your 90+ Firemaking.)

[Kenneh]

I think it would be a great idea. This game relys far to much on combat to get decent items.

 

Going to assume your a skiller.

[bedman]

But that's not the point of the thread is it now?

 

I also think skills should have a new way of moneymaking. Some cool 40 mill (or so) worth items for skillers might be a great introduction in the game. As long as they are not too common.

 

 

 

The point of the thread is to suggest that skills instead of combat should create high level items sometimes. I'm saying it would hurt the economy to do so because with an oversupply of high level items they would become too cheap and everyone who plays will be able to afford them in turn using the high level item to obtain other high level items crashing nearly all markets.

 

 

 

Well, you didnt read properly. There'd be an oversupply if this kind of update happened without thought, and every lvl 99 skiller can gather them easily. The OP didnt suggest to just put in some easy obtainable high lvl items that only needs a high skill to be gathered. He suggests that it should require high skills AND a lot of effort/time to obtain.

 

So far, skills have been reliable, steady incomes. Why not make a skill-luck-based money maker, like hunting dragon imps for instance. It doesnt have to be another "red chinchompa".

[NukeMarine]

No_99, you keep changing your request. First it was the mathematical formula for all heads (in answer to a two sided coin flipped 1000 times, that's 2^999-1 to 1 against). Put bluntly, that's winning the California powerball lotto (a 1 in 100 million chance) about 40 times. Now you want exact numbers which doesn't play into the discussion. So again, you want to be absurb, I will not answer your critiques and questions.

 

 

 

Hmmm it seems like you want to avoid my arguement at all costs now. What I'm obviously trying to say is that the supply is controlled by monster drops because monster drops are completely random and cannot be produced according to the player's whim. That's why you can't create high level items because then they would be too cheap. There are over a million people playing runescape... If you were to have a new high level creatable then whoever can make it will constantly make it until there is an oversupply of them.

 

 

 

Alright now counter this with a "No 99 Melee you seem to be talking nonsense. Let's move on.."

 

 

 

But what you did was say that because something was chance, there's no REASONABLE assumption of results. Tree cutting is completely random chance. However, you get reproducable results over time. Something like yew trees have a 1/6 chance of getting a log per axe hit. So if you limit your time to just 1 minute of wood cutting, you could get 20 logs or no logs (neither are likely, but those are the extremes). If you limit yourself to an hour, your range of possibilities increase, but it begins to narrow down to 3 logs every minute on average.

 

 

 

You, my friend, ignore averages in your argument, thus making your argument unreasonable. Monster drops follow a pattern. That pattern appears over time. Thus, you can farm a steel dragon, kalphite queen, daggonoth king for a steady income so long as you go for the long haul. I know this cause I've done it. I'm not childish to look at one drop. I looked at all drops over time (even posted drop chances on it), and did the math

[Zierro]

But that's like saying there is an average for the amount of Farming Xp you can gain in an hour. Sure, it's technically true but it doesn't hold much weight since it's nothing we can really go by. It's there, but it's very very very intangible.

[bedman]

No_99, you keep changing your request. First it was the mathematical formula for all heads (in answer to a two sided coin flipped 1000 times, that's 2^999-1 to 1 against). Put bluntly, that's winning the California powerball lotto (a 1 in 100 million chance) about 40 times. Now you want exact numbers which doesn't play into the discussion. So again, you want to be absurb, I will not answer your critiques and questions.

 

 

 

Hmmm it seems like you want to avoid my arguement at all costs now. What I'm obviously trying to say is that the supply is controlled by monster drops because monster drops are completely random and cannot be produced according to the player's whim. That's why you can't create high level items because then they would be too cheap. There are over a million people playing runescape... If you were to have a new high level creatable then whoever can make it will constantly make it until there is an oversupply of them.

 

 

 

Alright now counter this with a "No 99 Melee you seem to be talking nonsense. Let's move on.."

 

 

 

You are stressing too much on your assumption that a skill based high lvl item would be as easily, steadily produced as, say, full rune. (as long as you have a rune rock spawn, it's easy to mine, and easy to smith (with the righ lvls), and easily done in mass)

 

 

 

With the proper introduction, new high lvl items introdcued through skills arent gained that easily in masses. Look at dragon imps. Do we have an oversupply of dragon arrows? I think not, since they are 5k (or whatever) each.

 

 

 

There are LOTS of ways to introduce it while not making it common so everyone with high skills can farm it as if they are mining iron ore or cutting yews. I think that's what the OP tries to suggest: skill based money making (through making high lvl items that require high lvls kills) that works luck or time based (or both). Some sort of GWD for skillers (you need to be lucky, but in the end, you need to have spent time). This is a totally new concept, dont compare it to the old, click tree, collect logs!

 

 

 

Again, we've had our small example with Dragon imps, but the options are endless. (in a creative mind, which atm I dont have). Could be something treasure trail like, something d imp like, something crystal tree like, ... .

[Golvellius]

This thread is too vague and confusing, would have been easier if you said that you wanted more desireable items to be generated solely from smithing, crafting, and fletching.

 

Problem is that you always need an input to these skills to get an output.

 

There was another game I played called Dofus where every armour or weapon had to be generated by players using so said production skills.

 

However, in that game the stats of the produced item are dice rolled.

 

Thus you might by a weapon that give +20 str and or pay more and get the same item at +21 str.

 

For runescape application, one might make black dragon hide armour sets over and over and then on a rare occasion generation a "perfect" black dragon hide set.

 

This perfect set may have additional bonus to the range attack of say +30, making it very valuable in runescape or perhaps to the extreme untradable.

[Obtaurian]

Disclaimer: I've only read the first page and half of the second page.

 

 

 

I believe that using multiple high level skills in conjunction with random outcomes (the example of getting the special ore while mining coal) is a great idea, and I would love to see it implemented.

 

 

 

I understand the argument that it would make getting these items too easy, as there's no real risk. So why not make the items untradable? Let's use NukeMarine's Spirit Bow as an example.

 

 

 

You need a Spirit Seed, 85 in multiple skills, and it takes five days to grow the tree. Give it a wield requirement of 80 range and 80 agility. Make it untradable.

 

 

 

You've just given a decent bow to a small number of players who have time and money to waste, and who will use it for combat purposes. There will be no "Dragon Claws syndrome" where it's being sold for 100's of millions more than on the GE. It will be an elite item for the elite and only for the elite. You make it for yourself, and if you don't have the levels, you're out of luck.

 

 

 

Hell, you could throw in a bunch of other obstacles. What if the bow has its stats cut in half until you've killed 1,000 monsters, or fired 10,000 shots? What if you needed to slay a certain high level boss monster to use the bow? There are all kinds of ways to implement the idea without damaging the economy or giving a great item to players with money.

[snowball]

i suppose one could make things that are only makable with a skill other than combat, then have it able to be traded for profit. They could have a good leveled armor that can only be obtained from 99 smithing and doing a smithing mini game/quest. Or with crafting, make something cool that everyone wants, but only the high levels can get.

[green9090]

make something cool that everyone wants, but only the high levels can get.

 

It's amazing that Runescape's skills are so far off the mark for the most part that this is actually a valid suggestion.

 

 

 

I have a LOT to say on this topic, but I won't because I don't feel like typing it again. If you're interested, there's a link about fixing skilling in my signature in which I say a lot on the topic.

[ydrasil]

I'd love to have a luck based method in which to make money from skilling. Many people who have responded seem to miss the point of what Nuke is trying to get across. As No_99_Melee said:

 

Hmmm it seems like you want to avoid my arguement at all costs now. What I'm obviously trying to say is that the supply is controlled by monster drops because monster drops are completely random and cannot be produced according to the player's whim. That's why you can't create high level items because then they would be too cheap. There are over a million people playing runescape... If you were to have a new high level creatable then whoever can make it will constantly make it until there is an oversupply of them.

 

This is because you are under the assumption that it would be implemented like already existing methods. If it were to be brought in on par with how items are "farmed" from monsters, then it would be a worthwhile update. Nuke's example on 1st page, post 11 shows it quite well with the Anthracite.

 

 

 

An example of this already in game is the Sceptre's from Pyramid Plunder. You are by no means guaranteed to get a staff but there is a chance you might. Also I think higher level chests have higher chances? Not entirely sure on that. There is a slight risk to it, but that is really next to nothing.

[kudos6969]

I think it would be a great idea. This game relys far to much on combat to get decent items.

 

 

 

well if the decent items are for combat (they always are as far as boss monsters are concerned) then they should come from combat as rare drops, its what makes them lust after and precious and also expensive so only those that put the effot in can have them.

 

 

 

elysian shield is a perfect example of this.

[NukeMarine]

I think it would be a great idea. This game relys far to much on combat to get decent items.

 

 

 

well if the decent items are for combat (they always are as far as boss monsters are concerned) then they should come from combat as rare drops, its what makes them lust after and precious and also expensive so only those that put the effot in can have them.

 

 

 

elysian shield is a perfect example of this.

 

 

 

Hmm, makes perfect sense. From now on, the best foods, potions, and runes shall be from monster drops. Though it begs the question from where did these items come from prior to being in the belly of some fantastical beast? Why is the use of high level combat skills and equipment to kill high level monsters ok, but the use of high level skills and high level equipment to make high level items not ok?

 

 

 

I'll be honest, I don't buy the risk versus reward argument for the most part. All non-boss monsters can be engaged for a long time with little to no risk of death if one went prepared. Most boss monsters (if not all) are engaged either with tactics that allow camping (Daggonoth Kings), allow little risk of loss on death (4 item the kalphite queen), or is engaged with just 4 items due to 1 hit kills (spirit beast).

 

 

 

For the well prepared, it's not risk, it's annoyance. You spend time, effort (concentration, clicks on mouse), and gp (food, potions, etc.). But who here seriously goes to the Daggonoth Kings expecting to die? I bring food, armor, spells, and one-click teleport. I've died there only to lag and lost little compared to the gains from every other non-death trip.

 

 

 

Ok, any high level item should be difficult to obtain originally. One difficulty is boss drops, another is quest via quests, another is mini-games. There are countless other ideas floating around to make it difficult to create/obtain a high level item. I don't think combat should be the only way, but should remain a way.

 

 

 

I also agree, there can be tradeable and non-tradeable high level items. The fire cape is a perfect example (although it's obtained through combat). It represents one to two hours of effort and combat prowess. Anything that takes six hours to obtain will be charged quite a bit. Now, if that's six hours to anyone (f2p for example), then that charge has to be low. But imagine that's six hours of effort from a person that has to have 98 in 8 different skills. Since the number of people with those numbers are lower, those that bother will charge more.

 

 

 

Worried about the value of an item degrading in time? Make it a part of the higher level item. Imagine if you had to use a Dragon Chain to make a Dragon Plate. The lower level item is removed from the game to make the higher item, which means both need to be farmed (and keep prices up). Another way is add degrading to an item, which only a player made item can refresh. Don't want combat to lose it's perch as gatherer of god slaying weapons? Different weapons and armor are dropped than what can be made.

 

 

 

These are not new concepts. However, for the idea of player made high level items to be feasible, Jagex.

[Hevendor_Guy]

What about the spirit shields..?