is it?

???

Zamorak sword? Or spear, or godsword.

 

Either is fine, spear is better

i assume zgs its ok for them use dmace for spec

 

 

 

or get a zammy spear

Firstly, this is not the RSOF's... there is no need to bump your post 7 minutes after you posted it.

 

 

 

Secondly, there is no item called a Zamorak Sword.. so be more specific.

 

 

 

If you mean Zamorak GODsword then yes they are good, but the Saradomin Sword or Zamorak Spear is more effective and better to use.

Spazy, be more specific on your items and watch that language. If you can't do both... please don't use these forums anymore.

Spazy, be more specific on your items and watch that language. If you can't do both... please don't use these forums anymore.

 

What did he say that was so offensive? And I am sure when he says Zamorak sword everyone knows what he is talking about.

 

 

 

I think we can all be a little more curteous to new members so that we dont scare them away.

 

 

 

To answer the original question, waterfiends are weak to crush attacks so the Zamorak Godsword should work but you may wish to use something faster like Saradomin Godsword or Zamorak Spear.

Spazy, be more specific on your items and watch that language. If you can't do both... please don't use these forums anymore.

 

What did he say that was so offensive? And I am sure when he says Zamorak sword everyone knows what he is talking about.

 

 

 

I think we can all be a little more curteous to new members so that we dont scare them away.

 

 

 

To answer the original question, waterfiends are weak to crush attacks so the Zamorak Godsword should work but you may wish to use something faster like Saradomin Godsword or Zamorak Spear.

 

 

 

i hope you mean saradomin sword because saradomin gs is same speed

Spazy, be more specific on your items and watch that language. If you can't do both... please don't use these forums anymore.

 

What did he say that was so offensive? And I am sure when he says Zamorak sword everyone knows what he is talking about.

 

 

 

I think we can all be a little more curteous to new members so that we dont scare them away.

 

 

 

To answer the original question, waterfiends are weak to crush attacks so the Zamorak Godsword should work but you may wish to use something faster like Saradomin Godsword or Zamorak Spear.

 

 

 

i hope you mean saradomin sword because saradomin gs is same speed

 

Woops yes sorry thats exactly what I meant.

Spazy, be more specific on your items and watch that language. If you can't do both... please don't use these forums anymore.

 

What did he say that was so offensive? And I am sure when he says Zamorak sword everyone knows what he is talking about.

 

 

 

I think we can all be a little more curteous to new members so that we dont scare them away.

 

 

 

To answer the original question, waterfiends are weak to crush attacks so the Zamorak Godsword should work but you may wish to use something faster like Saradomin Godsword or Zamorak Spear.

 

 

 

i hope you mean saradomin sword because saradomin gs is same speed

 

Woops yes sorry thats exactly what I meant.

 

 

 

Although from experience I've found SGS much more effective in the long run than both.

Spazy, be more specific on your items and watch that language. If you can't do both... please don't use these forums anymore.

 

What did he say that was so offensive? And I am sure when he says Zamorak sword everyone knows what he is talking about.

 

 

 

I think we can all be a little more curteous to new members so that we dont scare them away.

 

 

 

To answer the original question, waterfiends are weak to crush attacks so the Zamorak Godsword should work but you may wish to use something faster like Saradomin Godsword or Zamorak Spear.

 

 

 

i hope you mean saradomin sword because saradomin gs is same speed

 

Woops yes sorry thats exactly what I meant.

 

 

 

Although from experience I've found SGS much more effective in the long run than both.

 

 

 

SGS is for specs only at fiends.

I thought all godswords were slower than the whip/zammy spear/ss?

 

 

 

Which is why smart people don't train slayer with them.

Smart people use SGS with certain slayer tasks because it either seriously decreases costs, or seriously decreases time spend on task.

Spazy, be more specific on your items and watch that language. If you can't do both... please don't use these forums anymore.

 

What did he say that was so offensive? And I am sure when he says Zamorak sword everyone knows what he is talking about.

 

 

 

I think we can all be a little more curteous to new members so that we dont scare them away.

 

 

 

To answer the original question, waterfiends are weak to crush attacks so the Zamorak Godsword should work but you may wish to use something faster like Saradomin Godsword or Zamorak Spear.

 

 

 

i hope you mean saradomin sword because saradomin gs is same speed

 

Woops yes sorry thats exactly what I meant.

 

 

 

Although from experience I've found SGS much more effective in the long run than both.

 

 

 

SGS is for specs only at fiends.

 

 

 

What ended up happening for me was I just used SGS the entire time and there was no noticeable difference in kill rate.

Spazy, be more specific on your items and watch that language. If you can't do both... please don't use these forums anymore.

 

What did he say that was so offensive? And I am sure when he says Zamorak sword everyone knows what he is talking about.

 

 

 

I think we can all be a little more curteous to new members so that we dont scare them away.

 

 

 

To answer the original question, waterfiends are weak to crush attacks so the Zamorak Godsword should work but you may wish to use something faster like Saradomin Godsword or Zamorak Spear.

 

 

 

i hope you mean saradomin sword because saradomin gs is same speed

 

Woops yes sorry thats exactly what I meant.

 

 

 

Although from experience I've found SGS much more effective in the long run than both.

 

 

 

SGS is for specs only at fiends.

 

 

 

What ended up happening for me was I just used SGS the entire time and there was no noticeable difference in kill rate.

 

 

 

You can't notice somethign that you intentionally avoid noticing. Go time 20 kills with a sara sword, 20 with a zam spear, and 20 with a sgs. I have all three and I've personally done this. You'll notice that the spear and sword are noticeable ahead, and that the spear is slightly ahead of the sword, but not enough to sacrifice focused training. Make sure that you aren't using any super pots during the tests so that your attack and strength variance doesn't skew the results.

 

 

 

What ended up happening for me was I just used SGS the entire time and there was no noticeable difference in kill rate.

 

 

 

You can't notice somethign that you intentionally avoid noticing. Go time 20 kills with a sara sword, 20 with a zam spear, and 20 with a sgs. I have all three and I've personally done this. You'll notice that the spear and sword are noticeable ahead, and that the spear is slightly ahead of the sword, but not enough to sacrifice focused training. Make sure that you aren't using any super pots during the tests so that your attack and strength variance doesn't skew the results.

 

 

 

OFF TOPIC: FFS I HATE THAT MAX QUOTE CHAIN THING!!!!

 

 

 

Oh I didn't intentionally avoid noticing it. But I'll be honest I didn't give it my watchful eye than I usually do. Normal I keep pretty (imo) precise accounts of xp rates, but for this I sorta just took a Z Spear, then took Obby Mace + Zerker, then took SGS and I ended up liking the SGS method WAAAY more. I CAN tell you that it comes close to SS or ZS, while many people may say it's worse, I must personally say I like it much better.

 

 

 

However, that's only from my intuitive feelings during training. You may, and I believe you are, very much correct that it is slower kills. (I'm f2p, so I won't be doing any testing anything soon though :x .) But I personally felt SGS to be faster than at least ZS.

 

 

 

On a side, but not entirely off topic note, "focused training" is not better than controlled. The reason is simple-you don't have to use an inferior weapon. Whip is at least 5k xp per hour higher than d scim with regular equipment, maybe a tad less if you used SS. If you trained controlled, you would never have to see those two weapons. You said it yourself, that the ZS is slightly better than SS (although I don't see how, don't they have the same stats?). Assuming you always trained at Waterfiends (I bow to your patience), if you used ZS you would get levels faster, despite it being on controlled. Plus I believe spears have the option to "focus train" on defense, correct?

The huge pray bonus(8 if I remember correctly) is a nice boost at fiends, but I personally preferr speed. The speed that you used potions may have mislead you. Anyways on to the interesting bit...

 

 

 

 

On a side, but not entirely off topic note, "focused training" is not better than controlled. The reason is simple-you don't have to use an inferior weapon. Whip is at least 5k xp per hour higher than d scim with regular equipment, maybe a tad less if you used SS. If you trained controlled, you would never have to see those two weapons. You said it yourself, that the ZS is slightly better than SS (although I don't see how, don't they have the same stats?). Assuming you always trained at Waterfiends (I bow to your patience), if you used ZS you would get levels faster, despite it being on controlled. Plus I believe spears have the option to "focus train" on defense, correct?

 

 

 

SS's and spears don't have the same stats, just the same speed. Spears have higher crush accuracy, which leads them to being slightly better for fiends. Sara swords have a higher strength bonus if I remember correctly, which leads to their inferiority being negligible.

 

 

 

Focused training with a whip for atack, sara sword for strength, and then whip for defense IS faster than training via controlled all the way. I don't really think that you're overly invested in controlled training from your post, btu I like whipping out the quote that I'll go find in a bit whenever I can...

 

 

 

EDIT: Just need to blow off a bit of the dust...

 

EDIT:: Large quote thing relocated

The huge pray bonus(8 if I remember correctly) is a nice boost at fiends, but I personally preferr speed. The speed that you used potions may have mislead you. Anyways on to the interesting bit...

 

 

 

 

On a side, but not entirely off topic note, "focused training" is not better than controlled. The reason is simple-you don't have to use an inferior weapon. Whip is at least 5k xp per hour higher than d scim with regular equipment, maybe a tad less if you used SS. If you trained controlled, you would never have to see those two weapons. You said it yourself, that the ZS is slightly better than SS (although I don't see how, don't they have the same stats?). Assuming you always trained at Waterfiends (I bow to your patience), if you used ZS you would get levels faster, despite it being on controlled. Plus I believe spears have the option to "focus train" on defense, correct?

 

 

 

SS's and spears don't have the same stats, just the same speed. Spears have higher crush accuracy, which leads them to being slightly better for fiends. Sara swords have a higher strength bonus if I remember correctly, which leads to their inferiority being negligible.

 

 

 

Focused training with a whip for atack, sara sword for strength, and then whip for defense IS faster than training via controlled all the way. I don't really think that you're overly invested in controlled training from your post, btu I like whipping out the quote that I'll go find in a bit whenever I can...

 

 

 

How is it faster? You're losing a lot switching to SS, even if you have higher levels. I mean 70-99 strength makes you hit like 4-5 higher, that's not much at all. The benefit of attack is probably even less since you'd give up the Rune Defender. Remember that if you use xp boosters (like SC armor or Void) the gap is even bigger.

 

 

 

I did a short test, but I can't say it's accurate since my attack, strength, and defense levels were not equal when I tested, and if I wanna conduct a fair test, that would involve maxing melee :wall: (Knew I should've gotten mining instead :wall: ).

You posted again before I finished my edit...

 

 

 

whip+defender on controlled is faster if you want to level all 3.

 

 

 

Not meaning to hijack your thread, but I've seen this statement repeated in various forms over and over. can someone PLEASE explain to me how this is true?

 

 

 

Let's take the levels of 80 to 90 in consideration, not even going as far as to max out...

 

The rate at which you gain experience is entirely dependent on the damge that you deal, correct? Also, damage dealt is affected by your attack and strength levels with no direct input from defense, correct? If the two previous statements are indeed correct, then how is it possible that you would get the expereince from 80 to 90 in all 3 melee skills faster while training controlled than you would if you were to train attack and strength to 90 initially with a whip and sara sword using their respective focused options?

 

 

 

Using the focused methods seperately, you would reach your maximum potential to recieve experience(90 attack and strength) faster than you would reach your maximum potential with controlled training(and then you would not be trainign at maximum speed at all what with already being done). If you train in the order of attack, then strength, and then defense. Then the time that it took to finish your defense trainign would be shorter than the time which it took to finish your strength trainign which in turn would be shorter than the time which it took to finish your attack trainign because with focused training each step aids the next.

 

 

 

Based on all that stuff tha I just spewed, I see no way that a whip on controlled is faster than a whip on focused attack, sara sword on focused strength, and then whip again on focused defense. The lower rate of experience gain from the lack of a defender is not great enough to cause enough of a slow down, and since you trained attack already, you have 10 more levels to make up for that loss of 20 accuracy bonus.

 

 

 

Also, I'd assume that someone with 90 attack and strength using a dragon scimitar would deal damage much more quickly than someone with 80 attack and strength using a whip, do to the fact that I think that levels carry far more weight than equipment bonuses. That statement however, has no proof or evidence whatsoever and is merely my opinion.

 

 

 

So please, please explain to me how

whip+defender on controlled is faster if you want to level all 3.

Yeah sorry for posting so quick, didn't know you were gonna edit.

 

 

 

Ok so basically you are saying that since you have higher levels, you will get xp faster. But how much does that REALLY impact the xp per hour? The main thing is this: although you put much more effort into each level as you progress, you only get the same out of it.

 

 

 

What I mean is this: every 7-8 levels you must double your current xp. At low levels, that's only a few thousand. At higher levels, it's a few hundred thousand. But from 70-80 strength, you only hit 3 or something higher. From 80-90 strength, you'll also only it 3 or something higher. But the xp you need to get 80-90 strength is exponentially more than 70-80. True?

 

 

 

So it's proven that Whip beats SS overall. Here's my personal data when I was training. (Note this is pre-summoning.) Whip on average got me 2k more xp per hour than SS did, even greater a gap if I used D scim.

 

 

 

So what's that mean? 70-80 strength is roughly 1.2m xp. 80-90 is roughly 3.3m xp. Assume each set of 10 provides 1k extra xp per hour. Then assume that if you did each set with attack also you'd get 1.5k extra per hour. Then assume defense helps in absolutely no way.

 

 

 

So from 70-80 attack/str/def you would need 3.6m total xp. I'd say a good average xp rate at that level would be 80k per hour (no idea about all this new stuff with Zombie Monkeys, but 80k per hour sounds right at 70/70/70).

 

 

 

Let's take your method first. After 80 attack (15 hours), you'd then get a 1.5k per hour boost. After 80 strength (14.7239 hours-let's say 14.75), you'd get another 1k per hour boost. Then 80 defense would take 14.5455 hours-let's say 14.5. In total that's 44.25 hours.

 

 

 

Now on controlled. Here you'll get a constant 82k per hour rate. That's only 43.9023 hours-let's say 43.9. So you'd save yourself......something like 20 minutes. Not a whole lot, but remember this is magnified at higher levels. 80-90 is 275% more xp to gain than 70-80. 275% of .35 is .96, so you'd save almost an hour. 90-99 is about 7.7m xp, get the picture?

 

 

 

But really...the time you save is only a handful of hours...so getting back to the topic of the thread, if what you say is true, or what I said is true, it doesn't matter. The difference is so small for the few hours he will be at waterfiends, so ZS and SS are equal in the long run. Perhaps ZS would make more sense, since it is cheaper?

Yeah sorry for posting so quick, didn't know you were gonna edit.

 

 

 

Ok so basically you are saying that since you have higher levels, you will get xp faster. But how much does that REALLY impact the xp per hour? The main thing is this: although you put much more effort into each level as you progress, you only get the same out of it.

 

 

 

What I mean is this: every 7-8 levels you must double your current xp. At low levels, that's only a few thousand. At higher levels, it's a few hundred thousand. But from 70-80 strength, you only hit 3 or something higher. From 80-90 strength, you'll also only it 3 or something higher. But the xp you need to get 80-90 strength is exponentially more than 70-80. True?

 

 

 

So it's proven that Whip beats SS overall. Here's my personal data when I was training. (Note this is pre-summoning.) Whip on average got me 2k more xp per hour than SS did, even greater a gap if I used D scim.

 

 

 

So what's that mean? 70-80 strength is roughly 1.2m xp. 80-90 is roughly 3.3m xp. Assume each set of 10 provides 1k extra xp per hour. Then assume that if you did each set with attack also you'd get 1.5k extra per hour. Then assume defense helps in absolutely no way.

 

 

 

So from 70-80 attack/str/def you would need 3.6m total xp. I'd say a good average xp rate at that level would be 80k per hour (no idea about all this new stuff with Zombie Monkeys, but 80k per hour sounds right at 70/70/70).

 

 

 

Let's take your method first. After 80 attack (15 hours), you'd then get a 1.5k per hour boost. After 80 strength (14.7239 hours-let's say 14.75), you'd get another 1k per hour boost. Then 80 defense would take 14.5455 hours-let's say 14.5. In total that's 44.25 hours.

 

 

 

Now on controlled. Here you'll get a constant 82k per hour rate. That's only 43.9023 hours-let's say 43.9. So you'd save yourself......something like 20 minutes. Not a whole lot, but remember this is magnified at higher levels. 80-90 is 275% more xp to gain than 70-80. 275% of .35 is .96, so you'd save almost an hour. 90-99 is about 7.7m xp, get the picture?

 

 

 

But really...the time you save is only a handful of hours...so getting back to the topic of the thread, if what you say is true, or what I said is true, it doesn't matter. The difference is so small for the few hours he will be at waterfiends, so ZS and SS are equal in the long run. Perhaps ZS would make more sense, since it is cheaper?

 

I've been arguing this for a while now... each level takes much longer as you proceed. Therefore, training each individually is slower due to the low amount of benefits a single level gives.

Yeah sorry for posting so quick, didn't know you were gonna edit.

 

 

 

Ok so basically you are saying that since you have higher levels, you will get xp faster. But how much does that REALLY impact the xp per hour? The main thing is this: although you put much more effort into each level as you progress, you only get the same out of it.

 

 

 

What I mean is this: every 7-8 levels you must double your current xp. At low levels, that's only a few thousand. At higher levels, it's a few hundred thousand. But from 70-80 strength, you only hit 3 or something higher. From 80-90 strength, you'll also only it 3 or something higher. But the xp you need to get 80-90 strength is exponentially more than 70-80. True?

 

 

 

So it's proven that Whip beats SS overall. Here's my personal data when I was training. (Note this is pre-summoning.) Whip on average got me 2k more xp per hour than SS did, even greater a gap if I used D scim.

 

 

 

So what's that mean? 70-80 strength is roughly 1.2m xp. 80-90 is roughly 3.3m xp. Assume each set of 10 provides 1k extra xp per hour. Then assume that if you did each set with attack also you'd get 1.5k extra per hour. Then assume defense helps in absolutely no way.

 

 

 

So from 70-80 attack/str/def you would need 3.6m total xp. I'd say a good average xp rate at that level would be 80k per hour (no idea about all this new stuff with Zombie Monkeys, but 80k per hour sounds right at 70/70/70).

 

 

 

Let's take your method first. After 80 attack (15 hours), you'd then get a 1.5k per hour boost. After 80 strength (14.7239 hours-let's say 14.75), you'd get another 1k per hour boost. Then 80 defense would take 14.5455 hours-let's say 14.5. In total that's 44.25 hours.

 

 

 

Now on controlled. Here you'll get a constant 82k per hour rate. That's only 43.9023 hours-let's say 43.9. So you'd save yourself......something like 20 minutes. Not a whole lot, but remember this is magnified at higher levels. 80-90 is 275% more xp to gain than 70-80. 275% of .35 is .96, so you'd save almost an hour. 90-99 is about 7.7m xp, get the picture?

 

 

 

But really...the time you save is only a handful of hours...so getting back to the topic of the thread, if what you say is true, or what I said is true, it doesn't matter. The difference is so small for the few hours he will be at waterfiends, so ZS and SS are equal in the long run. Perhaps ZS would make more sense, since it is cheaper?

 

 

 

That's a very convincing argument if the rates are correct. The thing is that you gave me the difference between 80 attack/strength and 90 attack/strength as 2.5k per hour. That's 625 damage, which is about 6 dusties. I also noticed your later reduction of the increase in xp gain to 1k/hour(2.5 dusties) which is one of the biggest reasons that I'm wary of your numbers. I unfortunately did not record my experience gain rates at each level leading up to my current ones, so i have no solid data to go off of, but I seriously doubt that the difference between 20 levels of offense is 6 dust devils each hour. I've done almost all of my combat training through slayer since around 50 even melee stats when I got membership, and I distinctly a MUCH greater increase in speed than 6 kills per hour. What exactly are those values based on? Anyone can prove a point if they have the ability to generate statistics that fit their argument.

 

 

 

Now If we were to get one person with 80/80 att/str and a person with 90/90 in the relevant stats, would have much more faith in the numbers that were returned.

 

 

 

I will believe your max hit values though as tip.its calculator gives me a difference of 4 using *basic* slayer equipment(glory, d boots, slayer helm, defender, whip, etc...) and a difference of 3 when using the *higher leveled* items such as bandos top/bottom and a fury. Sadly I personally don't know of a way to account for attack level accuracy at all...

I believe controlled to be slower in the long run.

 

 

 

If you get 3mil combat XP it will either be 1mil in each skill or all 3mil on a single skill. Regardless of how you train, the XP needed to raise levels is the same. If you kill 200 monsters, then you will get the same XP, regardless of style, it will just be distributed differently.

 

 

 

High attack and strength lets you kill faster and nets you more XP in a shorter time.

 

High defence means you get hit less which means less time needed to heal.

 

 

 

However there comes a point where defence isn't needed or you can heal better without wasting time (prayer for example).

 

 

 

So in training controlled and therefore defence as well as attack and strength you are infact slowing down your training as you are not hitting the higher attack and strength levels as fast as someone who raises those to 99 first.

 

 

 

It really is common sense, and the basics of making a pure. Someone with maxed Attack and Strength is going to own someone with 70-70-70 stats as they hit harder and more accuratley.

Smart people use SGS with certain slayer tasks because it either seriously decreases costs, or seriously decreases time spend on task.

 

you sue it on every task because of the spec, you dont use as main wep :roll:

whip+defender on controlled is faster if you want to level all 3.

 

 

 

Not meaning to hijack your thread, but I've seen this statement repeated in various forms over and over. can someone PLEASE explain to me how this is true?

 

 

 

Let's take the levels of 80 to 90 in consideration, not even going as far as to max out...

 

The rate at which you gain experience is entirely dependent on the damge that you deal, correct? Also, damage dealt is affected by your attack and strength levels with no direct input from defense, correct? If the two previous statements are indeed correct, then how is it possible that you would get the expereince from 80 to 90 in all 3 melee skills faster while training controlled than you would if you were to train attack and strength to 90 initially with a whip and sara sword using their respective focused options?

 

 

 

Using the focused methods seperately, you would reach your maximum potential to recieve experience(90 attack and strength) faster than you would reach your maximum potential with controlled training(and then you would not be trainign at maximum speed at all what with already being done). If you train in the order of attack, then strength, and then defense. Then the time that it took to finish your defense trainign would be shorter than the time which it took to finish your strength trainign which in turn would be shorter than the time which it took to finish your attack trainign because with focused training each step aids the next.

 

 

 

Based on all that stuff tha I just spewed, I see no way that a whip on controlled is faster than a whip on focused attack, sara sword on focused strength, and then whip again on focused defense. The lower rate of experience gain from the lack of a defender is not great enough to cause enough of a slow down, and since you trained attack already, you have 10 more levels to make up for that loss of 20 accuracy bonus.

 

 

 

Also, I'd assume that someone with 90 attack and strength using a dragon scimitar would deal damage much more quickly than someone with 80 attack and strength using a whip, do to the fact that I think that levels carry far more weight than equipment bonuses. That statement however, has no proof or evidence whatsoever and is merely my opinion.

 

 

 

So please, please explain to me how

whip+defender on controlled is faster if you want to level all 3.

 

 

 

- You'll be gaining strength and attack levels (along with defence) so you well be hitting both higher and more accuracy, even if the levels are farther between

 

- Assuming you use a saradomin sword for strength training, using a whip and a rune defender gives you a +5 str and +19 slash advantage for strenth training.

 

- Defence is a skill that has many uses, so levelling it along with other stats just makes sense to me.

 

 

 

I think if you had even 70's, and you went for 99 atk, then 99 str, then defence, then you would be better off training selectively. However, if you planned on training to 80 atk, then str, then def, then 90s, then finally 99's, I believe you would be better off using a whip on controlled. Also, not many people grind out 70-99's without pause; because defence has so many uses, I think it's simply better to stay equal. That last point is of course just opinion. Without xp rates neither of our arguments have much say though.

 

 

 

OT: The only godsword I could forsee being worth taking is a Sgs for the special; other then that you'd be better off with a Zamorakian spear.