Combat Familiars.

[ladycai]

Summoning combat monsters are an absolute win, especially when you're jumped by a hellload of monsters and you have a charged helm \

 

 

 

I used overlord the most, especially before I got a bunyip. I much preferred the bunyip, but as of yesterday I use a phoenix in combat for the extra magic experience and it is well worth it. To b e honest, I don't mind the delays for the first attack and thoseafter. Besides, even if you don't use them for combat entirelly, their invisible bonuses are well worth it. It's not like you don't notice them =P~

[Aneron]

Pathetic all the way from wolf to steel trashcan.

 

Remove them and give me back my 126 since summoning is only good for teleport, skill bonues, item spawning, and extra inventory space.

 

 

 

lol

 

 

 

you and nothing vs me and steel titan duel arena now?

[Lord_Shalaj]

To be honest, anyone who says that Combat familiars are rubbish, haven't yet reached a level where they can summon *good* combat familiars. It starts from elemental Titans, goes through Geyser Titan and ends at Iron/Steel Titan. Anything lower than the level 79 elemental titans, you're better off with a bunyip/war tortoise/spirit terrorbird for their various uses. I know the effect Geyser has had on my Slayer, and its already making a lot of money back for me. For one thing, Geyser trained around 300k experience for me (seeing it was 450k to level, and now it is 37k, and I've hardly ranged anything a lot). Nowadays almost everyone uses chins for 90+ levels. So that 300k range experience saved me 1m from chins. And thats not all, I never actually spent any time with the intention of training range. GT trained it off for me, quickening my slayer tasks by far.

 

 

 

With the introduction of scrolls in Slayer Helm, it is going to be better, as Geyser's scrolls can hit more than 30 (only on players with armour though :(, on monsters he maxed only 27 for me).

 

 

 

I agree fully that on tasks that need healing, these aren't required. Till now, I only use Geyser on Dagannoths in Chaos Tunnels, Aberrant Spectres in Pollivineach Dungeon and Mutated Bloodvelds. Now here's a small tip, if you have a good defence level, go ahead and buy a SGS. With that, you don't need a Unicorn for tasks like Dust Devils and Fire Giants, if you take an elemental titan, you can heal along with its scrolls, but it would hardly be needed. If you take a Geyser, Steel, Iron Titan, please do note down the time you took on the task. (Use the scrolls!)

 

 

 

Oh and also, you can use these for finishing the final hp of the familiar. In cases like Dagannoths in CT, it is hardly needed as you always under constant attack. I know for a fact that Geyser finishes off a dagannoth after I finish around 6-7 (including time taken in alching and picking drops). Which means he kills off 30 Dagannoths in task of 180. Those would have taken me another 10 minutes and 1.5 prayer potions.

 

 

 

Thanks..

 

Lord Shalaj

[Psycho_Robot]

To be honest, anyone who says that Combat familiars are rubbish, haven't yet reached a level where they can summon *good* combat familiars. It starts from elemental Titans, goes through Geyser Titan and ends at Iron/Steel Titan. Anything lower than the level 79 elemental titans, you're better off with a bunyip/war tortoise/spirit terrorbird for their various uses. I know the effect Geyser has had on my Slayer, and its already making a lot of money back for me. For one thing, Geyser trained around 300k experience for me (seeing it was 450k to level, and now it is 37k, and I've hardly ranged anything a lot). Nowadays almost everyone uses chins for 90+ levels. So that 300k range experience saved me 1m from chins. And thats not all, I never actually spent any time with the intention of training range. GT trained it off for me, quickening my slayer tasks by far.

 

 

 

With the introduction of scrolls in Slayer Helm, it is going to be better, as Geyser's scrolls can hit more than 30 (only on players with armour though :(, on monsters he maxed only 27 for me).

 

 

 

I agree fully that on tasks that need healing, these aren't required. Till now, I only use Geyser on Dagannoths in Chaos Tunnels, Aberrant Spectres in Pollivineach Dungeon and Mutated Bloodvelds. Now here's a small tip, if you have a good defence level, go ahead and buy a SGS. With that, you don't need a Unicorn for tasks like Dust Devils and Fire Giants, if you take an elemental titan, you can heal along with its scrolls, but it would hardly be needed. If you take a Geyser, Steel, Iron Titan, please do note down the time you took on the task. (Use the scrolls!)

 

 

 

Oh and also, you can use these for finishing the final hp of the familiar. In cases like Dagannoths in CT, it is hardly needed as you always under constant attack. I know for a fact that Geyser finishes off a dagannoth after I finish around 6-7 (including time taken in alching and picking drops). Which means he kills off 30 Dagannoths in task of 180. Those would have taken me another 10 minutes and 1.5 prayer potions.

 

 

 

Thanks..

 

Lord Shalaj

 

 

 

I always suspected that the higher level combat familiars would actually be worth their salt, but does that mean that the lower level ones should be as useless as they currently are? Like I said earlier, the only one I've used frequently is the smoke devil, and without those scrolls it too is useless. Just using its normal melee attack, it hits extremely slow with frequent 0s and rarely hits over 7.

 

 

 

Also, I'm curious, why do you kill dagannoths in the Chaos Tunnels and not the Lighthouse Dungeon?

[Lord_Shalaj]

To be honest, anyone who says that Combat familiars are rubbish, haven't yet reached a level where they can summon *good* combat familiars. It starts from elemental Titans, goes through Geyser Titan and ends at Iron/Steel Titan. Anything lower than the level 79 elemental titans, you're better off with a bunyip/war tortoise/spirit terrorbird for their various uses. I know the effect Geyser has had on my Slayer, and its already making a lot of money back for me. For one thing, Geyser trained around 300k experience for me (seeing it was 450k to level, and now it is 37k, and I've hardly ranged anything a lot). Nowadays almost everyone uses chins for 90+ levels. So that 300k range experience saved me 1m from chins. And thats not all, I never actually spent any time with the intention of training range. GT trained it off for me, quickening my slayer tasks by far.

 

 

 

With the introduction of scrolls in Slayer Helm, it is going to be better, as Geyser's scrolls can hit more than 30 (only on players with armour though :(, on monsters he maxed only 27 for me).

 

 

 

I agree fully that on tasks that need healing, these aren't required. Till now, I only use Geyser on Dagannoths in Chaos Tunnels, Aberrant Spectres in Pollivineach Dungeon and Mutated Bloodvelds. Now here's a small tip, if you have a good defence level, go ahead and buy a SGS. With that, you don't need a Unicorn for tasks like Dust Devils and Fire Giants, if you take an elemental titan, you can heal along with its scrolls, but it would hardly be needed. If you take a Geyser, Steel, Iron Titan, please do note down the time you took on the task. (Use the scrolls!)

 

 

 

Oh and also, you can use these for finishing the final hp of the familiar. In cases like Dagannoths in CT, it is hardly needed as you always under constant attack. I know for a fact that Geyser finishes off a dagannoth after I finish around 6-7 (including time taken in alching and picking drops). Which means he kills off 30 Dagannoths in task of 180. Those would have taken me another 10 minutes and 1.5 prayer potions.

 

 

 

Thanks..

 

Lord Shalaj

 

 

 

I always suspected that the higher level combat familiars would actually be worth their salt, but does that mean that the lower level ones should be as useless as they currently are? Like I said earlier, the only one I've used frequently is the smoke devil, and without those scrolls it too is useless. Just using its normal melee attack, it hits extremely slow with frequent 0s and rarely hits over 7.

 

 

 

Also, I'm curious, why do you kill dagannoths in the Chaos Tunnels and not the Lighthouse Dungeon?

 

 

 

Well, when I was at the lower levels of Summoning, any hit from a familiar, however meagre was considered a bonus by me. In tasks that don't need healers or BoBs (Aberrant Spectres, Bloodvelds (Mutated), Dagannoths and also Black Demons), it is quite ok to use the best combat familiar you can. However, don't put too much hope into them.

 

 

 

From personal experience, I can say that the best familiars at lower levels is the one that trains the skill you're training. If you don't care about the extra 3-5k xp/hr (remember, that rate is only for the lower leveled familiars), then I found Spirit Kyatt one of the best due to its random special attack (non-scroll) that hits upto triple the normal damage. Otherwise Bloated Leechs are fairly consistent and Obsidian Golems are not bad either (their scrolls make them even better). Don't even think of Giant Chinchompas ( :-# ). I've heard of Karamulthu Overlord being good, but never really tried. I've had a good amount of experience with Smoke Devils, always used them at Black Demons before Fire Titans. Another small tip is that always use a familiar whose strength is the monster's weakness. For example, Black Demons are weak to magic, so use Magic-based familiars like Smoke Devil, Fire Titan, Wolpertinger.

 

 

 

On the dagannoths part, I would advise you click on the link to my guide for more information :). However, in a nutshell (which we proved after days of debating) -

 

 

 

 

[Edited the quote to explain better]

 

Lets summarize this.

 

 

 

Dagannoth in Chaos Tunnels:

 

Take 33 mins (A lot less with better combat familiars/piety), Get around 30 crimsons along with a fair number of other charms, 150k+ profit from drops

 

 

 

Lighthouse: (Cannoning)

 

Take 15 mins, get 50 golds = 10 crims, 170k loss.

 

 

 

To save 18 mins, you sacrifice 20 crimsons and 320k.

 

Waterfiends break even at ~100 crims/hour, so it takes 12 mins to get 20 crims.

 

You have 6 minutes left to make that 320k back.

 

 

 

So, if you make of 3.2m/hour, go lighthouse. We're not even factoring in xp, you get slightly more combat xp in the chaos tunnels because you don't get halved cannon xp there.

 

 

 

Thanks..

 

Lord Shalaj

[Psycho_Robot]

BIG OL WALL O TEXT!!!

 

 

 

Thanks..

 

Lord Shalaj

 

 

 

I always suspected that the higher level combat familiars would actually be worth their salt, but does that mean that the lower level ones should be as useless as they currently are? Like I said earlier, the only one I've used frequently is the smoke devil, and without those scrolls it too is useless. Just using its normal melee attack, it hits extremely slow with frequent 0s and rarely hits over 7.

 

 

 

Also, I'm curious, why do you kill dagannoths in the Chaos Tunnels and not the Lighthouse Dungeon?

 

 

 

Well, when I was at the lower levels of Summoning, any hit from a familiar, however meagre was considered a bonus by me. In tasks that don't need healers or BoBs (Aberrant Spectres, Bloodvelds (Mutated), Dagannoths and also Black Demons), it is quite ok to use the best combat familiar you can. However, don't put too much hope into them.

 

 

 

From personal experience, I can say that the best familiars at lower levels is the one that trains the skill you're training. If you don't care about the extra 3-5k xp/hr (remember, that rate is only for the lower leveled familiars), then I found Spirit Kyatt one of the best due to its random special attack (non-scroll) that hits upto triple the normal damage. Otherwise Bloated Leechs are fairly consistent and Obsidian Golems are not bad either (their scrolls make them even better). Don't even think of Giant Chinchompas ( :-# ). I've heard of Karamulthu Overlord being good, but never really tried. I've had a good amount of experience with Smoke Devils, always used them at Black Demons before Fire Titans. Another small tip is that always use a familiar whose strength is the monster's weakness. For example, Black Demons are weak to magic, so use Magic-based familiars like Smoke Devil, Fire Titan, Wolpertinger.

 

 

 

On the dagannoths part, I would advise you click on the link to my guide for more information :). However, in a nutshell (which we proved after days of debating) -

 

 

 

 

Dagannothorama

 

 

 

Thanks..

 

Lord Shalaj

 

 

 

Oh, I thought the Dags in the CT's dropped the same things as the Dags in the Lighthouse Dungeon! Anyways... I have used the Karam. Overlord a little bit and I did notice that he hit more often than did the smoke devil, but the hits were lower, frequently 1-3. I just think that low to medium level combat familiars hit far too low for the slowness of their attacks. They should either hit higher, or hit faster.

[Obtaurian]

 

 

 

Oh, I thought the Dags in the CT's dropped the same things as the Dags in the Lighthouse Dungeon! Anyways... I have used the Karam. Overlord a little bit and I did notice that he hit more often than did the smoke devil, but the hits were lower, frequently 1-3. I just think that low to medium level combat familiars hit far too low for the slowness of their attacks. They should either hit higher, or hit faster.

 

 

 

The Overlord is probably the best "low level" combat familiar. It hits pretty accurately, uses range and mage, maxes at around 10 I believe with its normal attack, and hits around 15-16 with its drown attack, which randomly activates sometimes. I would imagine it'd be much better if you charge your Slayer Helm with Doomsphere scrolls.

 

 

 

At 73 Summoning, I use the Overlord more than any other familiar (while slaying.)

 

 

 

EDIT: In summary, I would use the Overlord exclusively till 79 summoning.

[Jammy2222]

I wish someone would teach my Karamthulu Overlord how to safespot...

 

 

 

I'm ranging and it just stands there looking evil. -.-

[llamster]

I find it bizarre that experienced summoners do not know how to use combat familiars effectively. Using a combat familiar does not mean just pressing the whistle when you attack something. You have to change the way you fight in order to get the most out of it. In general you'll want to have your familiar attack a different NPC than yourself, unless it has really high hp.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I always suspected that the higher level combat familiars would actually be worth their salt, but does that mean that the lower level ones should be as useless as they currently are? Like I said earlier, the only one I've used frequently is the smoke devil, and without those scrolls it too is useless. Just using its normal melee attack, it hits extremely slow with frequent 0s and rarely hits over 7.

 

 

 

 

Overlord and spirit kyatt are stronger than the smoke devil.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, I thought the Dags in the CT's dropped the same things as the Dags in the Lighthouse Dungeon! Anyways... I have used the Karam. Overlord a little bit and I did notice that he hit more often than did the smoke devil, but the hits were lower, frequently 1-3. I just think that low to medium level combat familiars hit far too low for the slowness of their attacks. They should either hit higher, or hit faster.

 

 

 

The Overlord is probably the best "low level" combat familiar. It hits pretty accurately, uses range and mage, maxes at around 10 I believe with its normal attack, and hits around 15-16 with its drown attack, which randomly activates sometimes. I would imagine it'd be much better if you charge your Slayer Helm with Doomsphere scrolls.

 

 

 

At 73 Summoning, I use the Overlord more than any other familiar (while slaying.)

 

 

 

EDIT: In summary, I would use the Overlord exclusively till 79 summoning.

 

 

 

Kyatts hit up to 30 with their first strike which makes them clearly superior to the overlord against monsters that don't take a long time to kill (like dust devils).

 

 

 

And the overlord hits 14, by the way.

[Obtaurian]

I find it bizarre that experienced summoners do not know how to use combat familiars effectively. Using a combat familiar does not mean just pressing the whistle when you attack something. You have to change the way you fight in order to get the most out of it. In general you'll want to have your familiar attack a different NPC than yourself, unless it has really high hp.

 

 

 

Exactly. I think combat familiars have a few drawbacks, but for multicombat melee'ing like in your example, they work just fine. I think one of big issues is that they don't attack if you're safespotting, as stated above. They're pretty much useless if you're maging or ranging.

[muggiwhplar]

They're really only good for training rather than PvP... lvl 70+ (summoning) familiars add about 10k XP/hour to training. Rune minotaur adds like 15k+ def XP/hour for me :D

[whatisup618]

you do know pressing the whistle button in combat brings a familiar into combat without wasting your own attack time?

 

 

 

Is that something Jagex designed on purpose, or because there's a techical difficulty that makes it impossible for familiars to join in combat on their own, immediately?

 

 

 

I'm thinking the latter.

 

 

 

 

 

Also, how well does a level 138 player with a steel titan fare in a single-combat area, compared to a level 126 player with summoning at level 1?

 

 

 

Well well well! Equally well! How great is that -.-

 

 

 

 

 

I think they made it like that because when your running through a monster filled dungeon, they don't want your familiar stopping every two seconds attacking the monsters that are attacking you. This would be especially annoying if its in a very strong dungeon where the monsters kill you supply familiar before you even get to the boss you want to get to.

[Inuashakent]

The only combat familiars worth using is Steel titan.

 

 

 

Rest of them are good too, but considering what you loose by using them...then it's not to smart.

 

Well if we're talking about Slayer, we don't lose anything that can't be gained with Guthan's/higher quality food, which is a lot faster in the end.

 

 

 

Combat familiars are extremely underrated, and Bunyip are overrated. I've been saying this for months now, Combat familiars are great.

[Dork]

you do know pressing the whistle button in combat brings a familiar into combat without wasting your own attack time?

 

 

 

Is that something Jagex designed on purpose, or because there's a techical difficulty that makes it impossible for familiars to join in combat on their own, immediately?

 

 

 

I'm thinking the latter.

 

 

 

 

 

Also, how well does a level 138 player with a steel titan fare in a single-combat area, compared to a level 126 player with summoning at level 1?

 

 

 

Well well well! Equally well! How great is that -.-

 

 

 

 

 

I think they made it like that because when your running through a monster filled dungeon, they don't want your familiar stopping every two seconds attacking the monsters that are attacking you. This would be especially annoying if its in a very strong dungeon where the monsters kill you supply familiar before you even get to the boss you want to get to.

 

True, but there would be somewhat easy workarounds for things like that. As others have already mentioned, stances.

 

Aggressive: Attacks anything in a certain radius

 

Assist: Attacks anything you attack

 

Defensive: Attacks anything that attacks you

 

Passive: Attacks nothing unless called (whistled) in to battle

[llamster]

The only combat familiars worth using is Steel titan.

 

 

 

Rest of them are good too, but considering what you loose by using them...then it's not to smart.

 

Well if we're talking about Slayer, we don't lose anything that can't be gained with Guthan's/higher quality food, which is a lot faster in the end.

 

 

 

Combat familiars are extremely underrated, and Bunyip are overrated. I've been saying this for months now, Combat familiars are great.

 

 

 

Lol, your guides/posts are the reason I've been defending combat familiars so staunchly in this thread. Didn't you once say wolpertingers were 12k magic xp per hour?

[Obtaurian]

In case anyone wants to take a look, I made this thread on the RSOF. I feel pretty strongly about this issue considering it's one of my favorite skills.

 

 

 

74-75-616-58321314

 

 

 

I felt that this was an adequate fix for a lot of the problems we have, but I'm more than willing to take suggestions and add them to the thread.

[Davix12]

I think they're good

 

 

 

[Erichermit]

I used to never use combat familiars, but with the new update allowing the slayer helmet to be charged with scrolls, I bring combat familiars to many more tasks.

 

 

 

Currently, any heavy hitting task Im on I bring a fire titan (if it's multi combat). I find it does some noticable damage every now and then, and it keeps me healthy. On tasks where I pray, I bring a spirit dagganoth or giant ent (the scroll is good for ct dags where you get piled)

 

 

 

I wish I could use a combat familiar while safespotting though =|

[chaseofspades]

[stats][/stats] they are useless

[Amundogus2]

[stats][/stats] they are useless

 

Your comment is useless. Try training just the last 2 lvls until the phoenix, and then come back here and say it's useless.

[Straw_Hat]

i didn't use them for pvm alot before the update even though i have 99. with the slayer helm update though, it is alot faster with steel titan.

 

 

 

pvp i used pretty often. up to 96 possible hits, usually hits 20-40 here and there and has +15% defense bonus.

[Silver_Corner]

They are decent for combat, but like others have said, its the way they enter combat that makes them not as useful.

 

 

 

They need to change the AI so that a famliar (Unless its passive like a bunyip/uni) attacks any target you click to attack rather than waiting until something hits you. So that solves two problems:

 

 

 

1) Familiars would start attacking right when you do since its the click attack that tells them to move.

 

 

 

2) You can now use range/mage ones with safespots as you wont need something hitting you to initiate the attack.

 

 

 

Other than that though, combat familiars are about the equivalent of using an offensive/defensive prayer, which is what they were designed to be. They work great xp/damage wise, they just could use a little tweaking on the combat AI.

[Myweponsg00d]

Combat familiars are good. If there was a piece of equipment that let you hit +10 higher than you do now, how much do you think thatd be worth? Many familiars hit way above 10 every time they engage in combat. One additional 10-20 per combat goes a long long way...

 

 

 

Also I think the time delay on the familiar attacking is based on their attack rate. The Phoenix has very little delay between its attacks and I have noticed it to attack almost as soon as I engage the monster.

[vettro]

Would be nice if even in single combat they could attack too at 20% of thier normal rate or something.

 

 

 

I agree. We do have the chaos tunnels though. The whole combat familiar thing is a little over my head atm. My summoning is too low for anything good anyway. I use bull ant alot though.

[Me_Hate_Libs]

I don't use them. I don't use any familiars really. I prefer to do all my combat myself. I only do summoning for the pets honestly and I do it from ToG and Penguins.

 

 

 

If they're good, that's cool. If they're not, not gonna bother me anytime soon.