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PMods - Purpose or Status?


Guest jrhairychest

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They're not interested in reporters now, they are interested in game players. Your role is now party maker, not plastic police officer. Thats why they're not picking trigger happy reporters, but actual players for the role.

But if you take the rest of her post at face value you will notice that they had nothing bad to say about the previous team. They just said that they were expanding the role. They have changed very little about the reporting side of it, so what really are they doing?

 

Oh and by the way judging by what Mod Catalina had to say about the previous selection process of mods I'd say that seriously questions a lot of what you've been saying, unless now you're telling me that she didn't really mean it either and that what she said was another public relations stunt?

What she said was that they got "really great P Mods" but their "search "area" was very narrow", meaning that they could have found more great mods with the new system.

 

Testimonials were backed with evidence, wheres yours? You've spouted a lot of things but never once backed them up with any firm evidence. I ask again, lets see this evidence please, including the results of how well your pmod community did. Some screen shots will do. You've mentioned here a few pmods being in the TET. For a start I can see only a few, and how are you going to prove that these people are community focused?

I mentioned one TET mod, and if I'm not wrong he lead their team for a while. Considering that their role is to plan the parties for the community I would assume that he would have had to be community minded. He and the rest that I listed ran the chats, which are the community gathering spots for this entire fansite. If that isn't a community focus, nothing is. I never listed the mods in the TET by name, just the chat leaders, which reach a lot more of the community than the TET.

 

I believe they did address you and the general pmod population. You decided to ignore them. Take a look for yourself. She even commented on it.

Will do.

 

You still aren't denying anything, so I can only assume I'm hitting a few home truths here.

...

 

A crown and a mute button aren't tools, they are sabres to rattle. Hiding behind these doesn't change the fact you bottled out of the challenge because of what you were afraid to lose. If you had such principles on the issue and you didn't really care about the crown you'd have taken me up on it.

Yet whenever someone has a rule or gameplay based question, they come to me because to them the crown symbolizes knowledge of the game and its rules. I stopped seeing the crown as a status symbol, but that doesn't stop others from seeing it as a symbol of someone that can answer questions.

 

I think I've proved and put forward much evidence and a much more convincing argument than you or your supporters. A few posters, Langer and Erewhon2 were fence sitters and pretty intelligent posters yet they've made their choices on the evidence given. I didn't see one person on here decided that they hated mods then change their minds because of what you or others posted. I'd say my arguements involved a little more than the snippets you've been giving.

And yet two other posters stopped arguing because of the way you argued, so...

 

Not my fault you don't remember what you write.

But if you're using me as evidence then it might help to actually quote it. As it is now it's "You did it but I'm not telling you what you did".

 

Prevention is better than cure.

The Jagex solutions have been closer to cures than to prevention.

 

Seems you think if you just concentrate on me then its just me saying things. If you're going to debate at least answer their posts and give them the credit they deserve, just like I answer posts that disagree.

Alright then.

 

You just said what he said - you're contradicting yourself. And now you're saying the symbol is not important which contradicts what you said earlier about the tools. Its either one way or the other.

The symbol that comes with the role is not important. The use is. That shouldn't be hard to understand.

 

We know your stance on giving up your modship and exactly where your principles lie.

Yes, but apparently it's open to interpretation either way :smile:

 

What comes around goes around. Said it before and it will apply to him as it does you. We agree that our morals are completely different. I play RS to play the game. This cannot be said of your kind. Nice try at ignoring my point again too.

I can't quite see where I ignored your point. You accused both of us of being economical with the truth, while we were both honest about of our opinions.

 

Firstly let me say I am not he/she but 'she' :wink:

Thank you for clarifying that. Would rather not have made a mistake :razz:

 

In response to those who don't think I am talking to them.....my posts are usually directed generically with individual responses included, therefore unless you are agreeing with what I say, my points should be worth debating...yes?

That helps too, now I know to answer...

I continue to question why anyone would want to spend their leisure time in a role that irritates so many and serves so little purpose. That may change somewhat under the new criteria, but still holds true for those that were selected under the old criteria of the amount of reports players sent in and was not a rigorous selection process! :shame:

But the wording implies that it was not the only criteria. The rest - Account security, following the rules, etc, etc, etc. Would be a lot harder to do than hit whatever magic number they had for reports.

And as I posted before, if it was entirely based on reports, why are none of the players that just stand around or stay in clan chats reporting people mods now?

 

It's the "but" that gives it away.....for example: "I really do like you...."but"....." - get the picture? Its a 'get out clause' in the hope that they can get away without offending anyone.

So what part of it can be taken seriously? If they can't be fully honest with their players here then where will they be?

 

I really don't understand your point here.....most players would not want modship without the crown! Well thats exactly what I have been saying, it's purely 'status' as most things can be achieved without it. However you want the role without the crown, yet you continue to exploit that status, even knowing that you could probably achieve more as a 'helpful and considerate' player without the crown. So, either you have no idea what you are talking about or really you do agree with Jrhairychest :huh:

That assumes that the status changes who I am, though. I am not "most players", I am A Local Guy. I actually got quieter after being modded. And all I do now is either sarcasm in the name of humor or answer questions.

 

In support of this threads theme, there has been evidence from Jagex, links to other posts and Runescape itself, links to You Tube, screen shots, videos, personal opinions from ordinary players and an ex PMod. Some of that evidence has also been indisputable. The arguments against the theme of this thread have supplied no direct evidence other than 3rd party information and opinions. Wake up! :wall:

Personal opinions from ordinary players and an ex Pmod and the Youtube video are nothing but 3rd party opinions :wall:

And as the thread has shown, the Runescape examples can be taken in different ways. Plus, the screenshots were supplied by me. And the side I support used opinions from ordinary players, current Pmods, the game itself (remember those screenshots?), and the same posts that your side used.

Very easy to argue of you ignore the other side.

What a way to start a new page.

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Yet whenever someone has a rule or gameplay based question, they come to me because to them the crown symbolizes knowledge of the game and its rules. I stopped seeing the crown as a status symbol, but that doesn't stop others from seeing it as a symbol of someone that can answer questions.

 

Or others seeing the crown as a reason to hurl abuse, or still others to completely dominate conversation with inane comments and queries. Anyone has the ability to ask any other player about the game and they do. I constantly respond to questions and if I don't know the answer, I direct the player to where the answer may be found. Yet I am not a PMod nor do I wish to be one.

 

The symbol that comes with the role is not important. The use is. That shouldn't be hard to understand.

The 'symbol' has no relevance to responsible actions whatsoever, see my point above. It is a symbol of perceived 'status'.

 

But the wording implies that it was not the only criteria. The rest - Account security, following the rules, etc, etc, etc. Would be a lot harder to do than hit whatever magic number they had for reports.

And as I posted before, if it was entirely based on reports, why are none of the players that just stand around or stay in clan chats reporting people mods now?

 

At no point have I or Jagex implied it was soley on reports, Jagex clearly stated that 'reporting' was the main focus of selecting PMods and I did have issue with that. However even reporting aside, I still question the purpose of PMods, irrespective of how they are selected. (See previous posts from me).

 

So what part of it can be taken seriously? If they can't be fully honest with their players here then where will they be?

 

Any or all can be taken seriously, this is no different to any management style. I am a Manager and in my work I am required to be 'diplomatic' (as defined by Jrhairychest). This means that I will make changes to improve poor practice, whilst ensuring I do not alienate those that are functioning adequately within the role.

 

I really don't understand your point here.....most players would not want modship without the crown! Well thats exactly what I have been saying, it's purely 'status' as most things can be achieved without it. However you want the role without the crown, yet you continue to exploit that status, even knowing that you could probably achieve more as a 'helpful and considerate' player without the crown. So, either you have no idea what you are talking about or really you do agree with Jrhairychest :huh:

That assumes that the status changes who I am, though. I am not "most players", I am A Local Guy. I actually got quieter after being modded. And all I do now is either sarcasm in the name of humor or answer questions.

 

So are you saying that you only want the modship with the crown, as most players wouldn't? Please say what you mean. :wall:

 

In support of this threads theme, there has been evidence from Jagex, links to other posts and Runescape itself, links to You Tube, screen shots, videos, personal opinions from ordinary players and an ex PMod. Some of that evidence has also been indisputable. The arguments against the theme of this thread have supplied no direct evidence other than 3rd party information and opinions. Wake up! :wall:

Personal opinions from ordinary players and an ex Pmod and the Youtube video are nothing but 3rd party opinions :wall:

 

The difference being, much of the 3rd party information in support of this thread, is provided with evidence, or is a first hand opinion. Not "so and so said....."

 

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Or others seeing the crown as a reason to hurl abuse, or still others to completely dominate conversation with inane comments and queries. Anyone has the ability to ask any other player about the game and they do. I constantly respond to questions and if I don't know the answer, I direct the player to where the answer may be found. Yet I am not a PMod nor do I wish to be one.

But, is the mod to blame if other players decide to ask questions or hurl abuse?

 

The 'symbol' has no relevance to responsible actions whatsoever, see my point above. It is a symbol of perceived 'status'.

But who is perceiving the status? The mods themselves or the players around them?

 

At no point have I or Jagex implied it was soley on reports, Jagex clearly stated that 'reporting' was the main focus of selecting PMods and I did have issue with that. However even reporting aside, I still question the purpose of PMods, irrespective of how they are selected. (See previous posts from me).

A large portion of the thread was built around it being solely on reports, that's where my point comes from.

 

Any or all can be taken seriously, this is no different to any management style. I am a Manager and in my work I am required to be 'diplomatic' (as defined by Jrhairychest). This means that I will make changes to improve poor practice, whilst ensuring I do not alienate those that are functioning adequately within the role.

The quote comes from a Q&A forum thread, directed at the public, not the mods themselves. One would think that they would direct anything related to the changes they planned towards those they wanted to improve.

 

So are you saying that you only want the modship with the crown, as most players wouldn't? Please say what you mean. :wall:

That's the exact opposite of what I've been saying. It is my belief that most players would want modship for the crown, but I am not one of them. And none of the mods I have met seem to care about the status like the players around them. On the contrary, they're the ones that direct their energy to trying to improve the game for players.

 

The difference being, much of the 3rd party information in support of this thread, is provided with evidence, or is a first hand opinion. Not "so and so said....."

Bluelancer Said... Jagex said x, meaning y...

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But, is the mod to blame if other players decide to ask questions or hurl abuse?

 

Being a mod is a choice, so yes the mod can be blamed. They choose to be a mod, even though the role has been unnecessary, and knowing how generally players respond to that presence. And knowing that, they still make that choice to have the 'crown'. After all, as I have stated on a number of occasions, this behaviour doesn't happen when they are not around. :shame:

 

But who is perceiving the status? The mods themselves or the players around them?

 

Both, as you said...most players wouldn't want the modship without the crown

 

A large portion of the thread was built around it being solely on reports, that's where my point comes from.

 

Yes because reporting was the main focus of Jagex previous selection process, and we cannot get away from that....it is a fact! However the title of the thread is "Purpose or Status" so the issues are broader than just the historical selection process

 

The quote comes from a Q&A forum thread, directed at the public, not the mods themselves. One would think that they would direct anything related to the changes they planned towards those they wanted to improve.

 

Oh....and Jagex would think that the mods won't read it? Yeah right lol. Its also about how Jagex would want to be seen by that public.

 

So are you saying that you only want the modship with the crown, as most players wouldn't? Please say what you mean. :wall:

That's the exact opposite of what I've been saying. It is my belief that most players would want modship for the crown, but I am not one of them. And none of the mods I have met seem to care about the status like the players around them. On the contrary, they're the ones that direct their energy to trying to improve the game for players.

 

Well then why have all those mods accepted the crown then? This is so contradictory! Most players want modship for the crown, so they accept it when offered yes? Yet you and all the mods you met apparently don't, but yet you all have the crown?????? Be an outstanding player without it then! You cannot have it both ways! :huh:

 

The difference being, much of the 3rd party information in support of this thread, is provided with evidence, or is a first hand opinion. Not "so and so said....."

Bluelancer Said... Jagex said x, meaning y...

 

Blue Lancer was a direct opinion, Jagex said x was supplied with links and direct quotes from Runscape (usually recognised as evidence), so and so said.....with a screen shot, so and so said.....with a video link.......

Whereas you said...something, so and so said...something, where is any evidence for the opposing argument?

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Guest jrhairychest

They're not interested in reporters now, they are interested in game players. Your role is now party maker, not plastic police officer. Thats why they're not picking trigger happy reporters, but actual players for the role.

But if you take the rest of her post at face value you will notice that they had nothing bad to say about the previous team. They just said that they were expanding the role. They have changed very little about the reporting side of it, so what really are they doing?

 

Here's my direct quote I said to Troac on the same thing:

 

"You are obviously not employed in any capacity. If you were you'd understand what 'diplomacy' actually is. You don't sit a poor employee down and say "you're crap!". You tell them their good points (even if you have to make them up) and then put the "But..." in, just like Mod Catalina did. If Jagex state that they wanted this change because they didn't get what they wanted there would have been hissy fits galore with pmods. Instead they're being diplomatic. They've also been pretty frank that they selected via reports, which your pmod buds denied so vigorously and yet again are now proven wrong.

 

Now why would Jagex give an opportunity to those who don't report a crack at being a pmod? If what they were selecting were fine then they'd have no need to. Try reading between the lines. They'd have continued with that selection process if it was fine and dandy. They want community players and they aren't going to get that by selecting reporters who are self obsessed. Players dealing with players instead of players reporting players. I'd have thought you'd have spotted this long ago in the initial Jagex report"

 

Oh and by the way judging by what Mod Catalina had to say about the previous selection process of mods I'd say that seriously questions a lot of what you've been saying, unless now you're telling me that she didn't really mean it either and that what she said was another public relations stunt?

What she said was that they got "really great P Mods" but their "search "area" was very narrow", meaning that they could have found more great mods with the new system.

Again read above. Are you also going to disagree with what she said about your selection by reporting, which you were picked by? Do you still deny that you reported to gain pmod status?

 

Testimonials were backed with evidence, wheres yours? You've spouted a lot of things but never once backed them up with any firm evidence. I ask again, lets see this evidence please, including the results of how well your pmod community did. Some screen shots will do. You've mentioned here a few pmods being in the TET. For a start I can see only a few, and how are you going to prove that these people are community focused?

I mentioned one TET mod, and if I'm not wrong he lead their team for a while. Considering that their role is to plan the parties for the community I would assume that he would have had to be community minded. He and the rest that I listed ran the chats, which are the community gathering spots for this entire fansite. If that isn't a community focus, nothing is. I never listed the mods in the TET by name, just the chat leaders, which reach a lot more of the community than the TET.

Again no evidence brought to the table. And btw these are mods on TET, not in-game pmods which are completely different things. You've still brought not anything to table that suggests that RS pmods (Not TET!) were involved in any community programmes or did anything that could be considered worthwhile.

 

You still aren't denying anything, so I can only assume I'm hitting a few home truths here.

...

Still not denying it, so I think we know where we stand on that.

 

A crown and a mute button aren't tools, they are sabres to rattle. Hiding behind these doesn't change the fact you bottled out of the challenge because of what you were afraid to lose. If you had such principles on the issue and you didn't really care about the crown you'd have taken me up on it.

Yet whenever someone has a rule or gameplay based question, they come to me because to them the crown symbolizes knowledge of the game and its rules. I stopped seeing the crown as a status symbol, but that doesn't stop others from seeing it as a symbol of someone that can answer questions.

Don't make the assumption that pmods are the fountain of all knowledge when they clearly aren't. This is trying to say pmods are game experts. I've seen many low level pmods with no skills to mention who cannot be factored as having any form of in-depth knowledge. This argument you give is a complete fallacy and its something for you to try to hide behind because you cannot back up your own statements about the crown being unimportant to you.

 

I think I've proved and put forward much evidence and a much more convincing argument than you or your supporters. A few posters, Langer and Erewhon2 were fence sitters and pretty intelligent posters yet they've made their choices on the evidence given. I didn't see one person on here decided that they hated mods then change their minds because of what you or others posted. I'd say my arguements involved a little more than the snippets you've been giving.

And yet two other posters stopped arguing because of the way you argued, so...

You mean they ran off because they weren't up for someone challenging them?

 

Not my fault you don't remember what you write.

But if you're using me as evidence then it might help to actually quote it. As it is now it's "You did it but I'm not telling you what you did".

I guess the truth hurts you.

 

Prevention is better than cure.

The Jagex solutions have been closer to cures than to prevention.

Their solutions were a lot better than the likes of pmods could ever hope to achieve. You even provided your own figures for that.

 

You just said what he said - you're contradicting yourself. And now you're saying the symbol is not important which contradicts what you said earlier about the tools. Its either one way or the other.

The symbol that comes with the role is not important. The use is. That shouldn't be hard to understand.

If you're not enough without it then you should really re-consider why you do it. You don't need a crown to play RS, help people, report people or even break up arguments unless you're a weak person who has to stand behind a crown to do it. That shouldn't be too hard to understand.

 

We know your stance on giving up your modship and exactly where your principles lie.

Yes, but apparently it's open to interpretation either way :smile:

Quite simple and no interpretation needed. The evidence is on this thread

:grin:

What comes around goes around. Said it before and it will apply to him as it does you. We agree that our morals are completely different. I play RS to play the game. This cannot be said of your kind. Nice try at ignoring my point again too.

 

I can't quite see where I ignored your point. You accused both of us of being economical with the truth, while we were both honest about of our opinions.

 

I've dealt with that point up above about your story conflicting with Jagex's story about how you were selected. Of course you're economical with the truth. I'm glad you are or this thread wouldn't have lasted so long or contained the things is does :thumbup:

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Being a mod is a choice, so yes the mod can be blamed. They choose to be a mod, even though the role has been unnecessary, and knowing how generally players respond to that presence. And knowing that, they still make that choice to have the 'crown'. After all, as I have stated on a number of occasions, this behaviour doesn't happen when they are not around. :shame:

Likewise, players choose to ask questions to or be abusive towards the mod. And it only makes sense that players would ask questions of or be abusive towards a mod while a mod is there. But blaming the mod for being there is like blaming a theft victim for being in the same area as a pickpocket.

 

Both, as you said...most players wouldn't want the modship without the crown

But does most mean all? And even if a mod did join for the status, could their motive change?

 

Yes because reporting was the main focus of Jagex previous selection process, and we cannot get away from that....it is a fact! However the title of the thread is "Purpose or Status" so the issues are broader than just the historical selection process

Eh, somehow that got to be the topic, so I answered it. Good that it doesn't matter now...

 

Oh....and Jagex would think that the mods won't read it? Yeah right lol. Its also about how Jagex would want to be seen by that public.

And that is my one problem with the dev diary as well. That is the section of their website where they get the public interested in future updates. The other atricles in there are Q&A session answers and teasers for quests.

 

Well then why have all those mods accepted the crown then? This is so contradictory! Most players want modship for the crown, so they accept it when offered yes? Yet you and all the mods you met apparently don't, but yet you all have the crown?????? Be an outstanding player without it then! You cannot have it both ways! :huh:

Somehow I did manage to have it both ways though. And what I mean is that the mods I know are the ones that don't think it's a sumbol of higher status as much as it is of a helpful player.

 

Blue Lancer was a direct opinion, Jagex said x was supplied with links and direct quotes from Runscape (usually recognised as evidence), so and so said.....with a screen shot, so and so said.....with a video link.......

Whereas you said...something, so and so said...something, where is any evidence for the opposing argument?

My opinions are direct opinions, I think. My personal analysis for the Jagex articles can't be wrong, can it? Part of it is that if most mods were in it for personal gain, you would notice it. What you do have is either mods behaving as normal players and/or running community projects.

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Likewise, players choose to ask questions to or be abusive towards the mod. And it only makes sense that players would ask questions of or be abusive towards a mod while a mod is there. But blaming the mod for being there is like blaming a theft victim for being in the same area as a pickpocket.

There is absolutely no way you can compare the experiences of a mod to a victim of theft!!!! The clue is in the word 'choice'! I cannot believe that you would see yourself as a victim! Even more reason to not be a mod, for goodness sake! :evil: A mod chooses to take up the crown and put themselves in that position....for what?

 

But does most mean all? And even if a mod did join for the status, could their motive change?

No...it means the majority, which is significant. If their motive truly changed, then there would be no purpose to the crown as it is to recognise status, it is an irrelevant and unnecessary addition to a helpful, considerate and skilled player who does not require a status symbol. Therefore if they kept the crown the motive remains the same.

 

Eh, somehow that got to be the topic, so I answered it. Good that it doesn't matter now...

Yes it does matter, because of the denials that reporting was ever part of the process. If people can't be honest about that, then they are unlikely to be honest about the other issues raised, and there is a serious lack of self analysis and reflection. Why people struggle with admitting that taking on the crown is for status I do not know. I wear a cape because it has 'status'....so what? So do many others.

 

Oh....and Jagex would think that the mods won't read it? Yeah right lol. Its also about how Jagex would want to be seen by that public.

And that is my one problem with the dev diary as well. That is the section of their website where they get the public interested in future updates. The other atricles in there are Q&A session answers and teasers for quests.

I don't understand the relevance of your response here

 

Somehow I did manage to have it both ways though. And what I mean is that the mods I know are the ones that don't think it's a sumbol of higher status as much as it is of a helpful player.

No you haven't got it both ways, thats the point! Your statements are contradictory, you generalise and make sweeping comments on behalf of 'all the mods you know'. You fail to provide any clear evidence, you continually avoid confronting the issues directly. And why do you need a symbol to say you are a helpful player? Does this mean that because I don't have a crown I am not worthy of notice or that I am unable to be as 'helpful' as you? Be careful what you say, your arrogance is showing through! :shame:

 

Whereas you said...something, so and so said...something, where is any evidence for the opposing argument?

My opinions are direct opinions, I think. My personal analysis for the Jagex articles can't be wrong, can it? Part of it is that if most mods were in it for personal gain, you would notice it. What you do have is either mods behaving as normal players and/or running community projects.

See above! Avoidance again!

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There is absolutely no way you can compare the experiences of a mod to a victim of theft!!!! The clue is in the word 'choice'! I cannot believe that you would see yourself as a victim! Even more reason to not be a mod, for goodness sake! :evil: A mod chooses to take up the crown and put themselves in that position....for what?

Point completely missed.

Is the theft victim to blame for being robbed? Then why is the mod to blame for being questioned? If I was to say hello to a friend, am I inviting players to ask me questions or be abusive? No, I am just saying hello to a friend. It is my choice to remain a mod, but it is not my choice to have a player question/be abusive when I speak.

 

No...it means the majority, which is significant. If their motive truly changed, then there would be no purpose to the crown as it is to recognise status, it is an irrelevant and unnecessary addition to a helpful, considerate and skilled player who does not require a status symbol. Therefore if they kept the crown the motive remains the same.

That's where we disagree, though, because I do not feel that the crown is a status symbol. In all the time I've had it, it's been the butt of jokes (mostly on my end) more than it has been praised.

 

Yes it does matter, because of the denials that reporting was ever part of the process. If people can't be honest about that, then they are unlikely to be honest about the other issues raised, and there is a serious lack of self analysis and reflection. Why people struggle with admitting that taking on the crown is for status I do not know. I wear a cape because it has 'status'....so what? So do many others.

It was part of the process, though when I've heard the process outlined reporting was always downplayed. The only ones who thought reporting meant anything were the ones that hung around in banks or clan chats doing nothing but that.

 

I don't understand the relevance of your response here

Developer Diaries are even more a way for Jagex to set themselves to be seen better by the public than Q&A sessions. Of all the venues they could have put the evidence in, they put it in the one that is also home to quest teasers.

 

No you haven't got it both ways, thats the point! Your statements are contradictory, you generalise and make sweeping comments on behalf of 'all the mods you know'. You fail to provide any clear evidence, you continually avoid confronting the issues directly. And why do you need a symbol to say you are a helpful player? Does this mean that because I don't have a crown I am not worthy of notice or that I am unable to be as 'helpful' as you? Be careful what you say, your arrogance is showing through! :shame:

But isn't it more arrogant to assume that I couldn't possibly be doing this except for a selfish reason? Or to jump to conclusions and assume they're right?

I can say "all the mods I know" because the ones I know are the ones on this fansite and a few of the regulars at the "meetings''. Those are the ones that are either involved with the community or the ones that focus on the role over the status.

I regularly tell people that they do not need a symbol to be helpful, and that the game is the same without it.

 

See above! Avoidance again!

So who are you to avoid the point I made there?

My opinions are direct opinions, I think. My personal analysis for the Jagex articles can't be wrong, can it? Part of it is that if most mods were in it for personal gain, you would notice it. What you do have is either mods behaving as normal players and/or running community projects.

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Point completely missed.

Is the theft victim to blame for being robbed? Then why is the mod to blame for being questioned? If I was to say hello to a friend, am I inviting players to ask me questions or be abusive? No, I am just saying hello to a friend. It is my choice to remain a mod, but it is not my choice to have a player question/be abusive when I speak.

Point completely missed by you! There is no comparison! Why are you a victim? You choose to take on this role, knowing how people respond to it, both positive and negative. How does that make you the victim???? :huh: You choose to play RS, a game, in your leisure time, it is your 'hobby'. It is you who is twisting the moralistic and phsycological implications with no self reflection on your true motives. Just constantly referring to yourself (and others) as the altruistic 'do gooders' and victims of abusive players.

You said yourself that the crown is a 'symbol' of someone who can be approached, you don't have the option of being able to "say hello to a friend" without interference....it comes with the territory :shame: Yet again we come back to you wanting it all ways. If you want to be left alone occasionally don't be a mod. If you are a mod, accept what comes with it and deal with it. And do not tell me you are a victim. A victim does not have a choice! And again we also come to why anyone would then choose to take on a PMod role for pleasure, unless it meets some unfulfilled personal need to be recognised and valued....to have perceived 'status'.

 

That's where we disagree, though, because I do not feel that the crown is a status symbol. In all the time I've had it, it's been the butt of jokes (mostly on my end) more than it has been praised.

So what's the point in it, if it is so meaningless to you? I'm not laughing and I have never seen anyone 'praised' for having a crown, the thought makes me cringe! I would not praise anyone with pointless symbol, likely to have been gained from riding on the back of reporting others :shame:

 

It was part of the process, though when I've heard the process outlined reporting was always downplayed. The only ones who thought reporting meant anything were the ones that hung around in banks or clan chats doing nothing but that.

It was the main focus of the selection process.

 

Developer Diaries are even more a way for Jagex to set themselves to be seen better by the public than Q&A sessions. Of all the venues they could have put the evidence in, they put it in the one that is also home to quest teasers.

Does not detract from what was stated.

 

But isn't it more arrogant to assume that I couldn't possibly be doing this except for a selfish reason? Or to jump to conclusions and assume they're right?

I can say "all the mods I know" because the ones I know are the ones on this fansite and a few of the regulars at the "meetings''. Those are the ones that are either involved with the community or the ones that focus on the role over the status.

I regularly tell people that they do not need a symbol to be helpful, and that the game is the same without it.

Absolutely not! I have not jumped to any conclusions, I have followed this thread from the beginning. As Jrhairychest stated, I was 'sitting on the fence' at first, but the overwhelming evidence that supported what I had suspected, caused me to come to a clear opinion. And the ongoing posts have only reinforced that. I didn't question the 'all mods you know', I questioned that you constantly speak for them without evidence. Arrogance is the assumption that you are better, can do better, are more worthwhile, do better reports, are more 'listened to by Jagex, and have more status than me. :evil:

 

 

So who are you to avoid the point I made there?

My opinions are direct opinions, I think. My personal analysis for the Jagex articles can't be wrong, can it? Part of it is that if most mods were in it for personal gain, you would notice it. What you do have is either mods behaving as normal players and/or running community projects.

Which I completely disagree with, you seem to think that myself and others have incorrectly analysed Jagex articles (goodness knows how you've come to that conclusion!), why can't you be wrong? Really!!! And yes I have noticed that most mods appear to be in it for the 'personal gain', hence my standpoint. I hope that the community projects will downgrade the perceived status of mods, especially with the massive increase expected. But so far, I have not noticed them playing as 'normal players' And please note that the way in which you phrased that indicates a pose of superiority and arrogance.

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Point completely missed by you! There is no comparison! Why are you a victim? You choose to take on this role, knowing how people respond to it, both positive and negative. How does that make you the victim???? :huh: You choose to play RS, a game, in your leisure time, it is your 'hobby'. It is you who is twisting the moralistic and phsycological implications with no self reflection on your true motives. Just constantly referring to yourself (and others) as the altruistic 'do gooders' and victims of abusive players.

No, you still missed it. My point the was that I have no control over what other people say or do.

You said yourself that the crown is a 'symbol' of someone who can be approached, you don't have the option of being able to "say hello to a friend" without interference....it comes with the territory :shame: Yet again we come back to you wanting it all ways. If you want to be left alone occasionally don't be a mod. If you are a mod, accept what comes with it and deal with it. And do not tell me you are a victim. A victim does not have a choice! And again we also come to why anyone would then choose to take on a PMod role for pleasure, unless it meets some unfulfilled personal need to be recognised and valued....to have perceived 'status'.

It was you who said I was comparing myself to a victim, not me. And the sole purpose of my comparison was that I have no control over how people act around me... Which is true for everyone.

 

So what's the point in it, if it is so meaningless to you? I'm not laughing and I have never seen anyone 'praised' for having a crown, the thought makes me cringe! I would not praise anyone with pointless symbol, likely to have been gained from riding on the back of reporting others :shame:

Ah, but you have not heard the jokes... :razz:

They do tend to be about how pointless the symbol is.

 

It was the main focus of the selection process.

That comes back to the question of how all of the players that did nothing but report are not mods, then.

 

Does not detract from what was stated.

It's just a different way of reading between the lines. Just as how the answer to Jrhairychest's question can be interpreted to fit your argument.

But if things cannot be taken at face value what evidence is there?

 

Absolutely not! I have not jumped to any conclusions, I have followed this thread from the beginning. As Jrhairychest stated, I was 'sitting on the fence' at first, but the overwhelming evidence that supported what I had suspected, caused me to come to a clear opinion. And the ongoing posts have only reinforced that. I didn't question the 'all mods you know', I questioned that you constantly speak for them without evidence. Arrogance is the assumption that you are better, can do better, are more worthwhile, do better reports, are more 'listened to by Jagex, and have more status than me. :evil:

But it is equally arrogant to judge several thousand people based on what one or two are doing in a debate.

 

Which I completely disagree with, you seem to think that myself and others have incorrectly analysed Jagex articles (goodness knows how you've come to that conclusion!), why can't you be wrong? Really!!! And yes I have noticed that most mods appear to be in it for the 'personal gain', hence my standpoint. I hope that the community projects will downgrade the perceived status of mods, especially with the massive increase expected. But so far, I have not noticed them playing as 'normal players' And please note that the way in which you phrased that indicates a pose of superiority and arrogance.

Superiority or just a difference? Normal is what follows the standard or majority, mods are not "normal" in that sense because they are a minority. But you do seem to take on an air of superiority as well when speaking of mods...

Incorrect was your word. Not mine. My statement was that personal analysis varies by the person. And as the best way for an analysis to be confirmed or not is by confirmation from it's creator, which is equally open for interpretation.

You can complain about how I'm not providing evidence that meets your standards as much as you want, but as long as you're reading between the lines about what the evidence means you and I are in the same position. Because what is evidence if it can't be taken at face value?

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Guest jrhairychest

Seeing as you're going to ignore my last post directed towards you local_guy its been an interesting read to say the least regarding Erewhon2's questions:

 

Point completely missed by you! There is no comparison! Why are you a victim? You choose to take on this role, knowing how people respond to it, both positive and negative. How does that make you the victim???? :huh: You choose to play RS, a game, in your leisure time, it is your 'hobby'. It is you who is twisting the moralistic and phsycological implications with no self reflection on your true motives. Just constantly referring to yourself (and others) as the altruistic 'do gooders' and victims of abusive players.

No, you still missed it. My point the was that I have no control over what other people say or do.

She correctly stated that you were painting yourself as the victim here. Wanting the crown then complaining that players ask questions or give you abuse is quite absurd.

 

You said yourself that the crown is a 'symbol' of someone who can be approached, you don't have the option of being able to "say hello to a friend" without interference....it comes with the territory :shame: Yet again we come back to you wanting it all ways. If you want to be left alone occasionally don't be a mod. If you are a mod, accept what comes with it and deal with it. And do not tell me you are a victim. A victim does not have a choice! And again we also come to why anyone would then choose to take on a PMod role for pleasure, unless it meets some unfulfilled personal need to be recognised and valued....to have perceived 'status'.

It was you who said I was comparing myself to a victim, not me. And the sole purpose of my comparison was that I have no control over how people act around me... Which is true for everyone.

No you were looking to make youself look hard done to. Whinging again about how hard it is but still won't give it all up. And are we all suprised?

 

So what's the point in it, if it is so meaningless to you? I'm not laughing and I have never seen anyone 'praised' for having a crown, the thought makes me cringe! I would not praise anyone with pointless symbol, likely to have been gained from riding on the back of reporting others :shame:

Ah, but you have not heard the jokes... :razz:

They do tend to be about how pointless the symbol is.

Completely evaded erewhon2's point here. If its so meaningless get rid of it and help out without the pmod status. Of course we know you'll try to evade that too as you're afraid to be without it.

 

It was the main focus of the selection process.

That comes back to the question of how all of the players that did nothing but report are not mods, then.

Disputed by the original Jagex post and by Mod Catalina's response to me. Unless of course what you're trying to say is that they are wrong and you are right.

 

Does not detract from what was stated.

It's just a different way of reading between the lines. Just as how the answer to Jrhairychest's question can be interpreted to fit your argument.

But if things cannot be taken at face value what evidence is there?

No, I think Mod Catalina was pretty clear unless you really wanted her to say 'we didn't select by reports and our pmods were less than what we wanted so we are taking a new approach by selecting players who will fit in best with what we actually want them to do'.

 

 

Absolutely not! I have not jumped to any conclusions, I have followed this thread from the beginning. As Jrhairychest stated, I was 'sitting on the fence' at first, but the overwhelming evidence that supported what I had suspected, caused me to come to a clear opinion. And the ongoing posts have only reinforced that. I didn't question the 'all mods you know', I questioned that you constantly speak for them without evidence. Arrogance is the assumption that you are better, can do better, are more worthwhile, do better reports, are more 'listened to by Jagex, and have more status than me. :evil:

But it is equally arrogant to judge several thousand people based on what one or two are doing in a debate.

Untrue because of in game experience and the many answers and denials from yourself and other pmods on here. Do you not realise that you represent the pmod community with your answers?

 

Which I completely disagree with, you seem to think that myself and others have incorrectly analysed Jagex articles (goodness knows how you've come to that conclusion!), why can't you be wrong? Really!!! And yes I have noticed that most mods appear to be in it for the 'personal gain', hence my standpoint. I hope that the community projects will downgrade the perceived status of mods, especially with the massive increase expected. But so far, I have not noticed them playing as 'normal players' And please note that the way in which you phrased that indicates a pose of superiority and arrogance.

 

Superiority or just a difference? Normal is what follows the standard or majority, mods are not "normal" in that sense because they are a minority. But you do seem to take on an air of superiority as well when speaking of mods...

Incorrect was your word. Not mine. My statement was that personal analysis varies by the person. And as the best way for an analysis to be confirmed or not is by confirmation from it's creator, which is equally open for interpretation.

Completely evaded the point. Local_guy is wrong, but he doesn't want to admit it. More to himself than anyone else I suspect. A lot of biting the hand that feeds him and dismissing what Jagex say does not exactly instill confidence in the old system, but as Erewhon2 states it will downgrade the status and more importantly provide pmods with at least some people who may actually know how to be a pmod as well as admit when they're wrong. Interesting about the self analysis point, maybe you should try it and think about why you contradict yourself a lot and try to be honest with yourself about your true motives.

 

You can complain about how I'm not providing evidence that meets your standards as much as you want, but as long as you're reading between the lines about what the evidence means you and I are in the same position. Because what is evidence if it can't be taken at face value?

 

You're not providing any evidence at all. Dismissing the evidence put to you with ridiculous claims that Jagex aren't doing what they say they are, then lying about the way you were selected, to not bringing any hard evidence to the table means that other people read between the lines too.

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Here's my direct quote I said to Troac on the same thing:

 

"You are obviously not employed in any capacity. If you were you'd understand what 'diplomacy' actually is. You don't sit a poor employee down and say "you're crap!". You tell them their good points (even if you have to make them up) and then put the "But..." in, just like Mod Catalina did. If Jagex state that they wanted this change because they didn't get what they wanted there would have been hissy fits galore with pmods. Instead they're being diplomatic. They've also been pretty frank that they selected via reports, which your pmod buds denied so vigorously and yet again are now proven wrong.

But that still is heavily based on interpretation. And as a result, not firm evidence.

 

Now why would Jagex give an opportunity to those who don't report a crack at being a pmod? If what they were selecting were fine then they'd have no need to. Try reading between the lines. They'd have continued with that selection process if it was fine and dandy. They want community players and they aren't going to get that by selecting reporters who are self obsessed. Players dealing with players instead of players reporting players. I'd have thought you'd have spotted this long ago in the initial Jagex report"

If you have to read between the lines it is only barely a direct quote. Evidence is face value, and an interpretation is personal.

 

Again read above. Are you also going to disagree with what she said about your selection by reporting, which you were picked by? Do you still deny that you reported to gain pmod status?

Yes, and yes. And since it is either a first person source or a personal opinion I don't need to cite it do I?

 

Again no evidence brought to the table. And btw these are mods on TET, not in-game pmods which are completely different things. You've still brought not anything to table that suggests that RS pmods (Not TET!) were involved in any community programmes or did anything that could be considered worthwhile.

The list I had was RS Pmods that are in the TET. And RS Pmods that ran community chats.

 

Still not denying it, so I think we know where we stand on that.

I think we can legally label you a troll then. If this is anything but baiting I'm a flying cobra.

 

Don't make the assumption that pmods are the fountain of all knowledge when they clearly aren't. This is trying to say pmods are game experts. I've seen many low level pmods with no skills to mention who cannot be factored as having any form of in-depth knowledge. This argument you give is a complete fallacy and its something for you to try to hide behind because you cannot back up your own statements about the crown being unimportant to you.

It is a complete fallacy to suggest that levels equal knowledge.

And how am I supposed to back up a personal opinion?

 

You mean they ran off because they weren't up for someone challenging them?

While I agree that it is a challenge to argue with someone who holds such a double standard on evidence, I would suggest that you look at your posting style.

 

I guess the truth hurts you.

Beats ignoring it, though.

 

Their solutions were a lot better than the likes of pmods could ever hope to achieve. You even provided your own figures for that.

If you look around RWT is still around after all of their efforts to remove it. So, I guess they did just as well as their volunteers...

 

If you're not enough without it then you should really re-consider why you do it. You don't need a crown to play RS, help people, report people or even break up arguments unless you're a weak person who has to stand behind a crown to do it. That shouldn't be too hard to understand.

True, but the perks that come with it are worth taking it for.

 

Quite simple and no interpretation needed. The evidence is on this thread

:grin:

But of course, you won't cite it :grin:

 

I've dealt with that point up above about your story conflicting with Jagex's story about how you were selected. Of course you're economical with the truth. I'm glad you are or this thread wouldn't have lasted so long or contained the things is does :thumbup:

Hey, if I give up, you win. And that's no fun :grin:

 

Seeing as you're going to ignore my last post directed towards you local_guy its been an interesting read to say the least regarding Erewhon2's questions:

It's getting to the point where it's hard to see where one post ends and another begins. Especially with two very similar posters.

 

She correctly stated that you were painting yourself as the victim here. Wanting the crown then complaining that players ask questions or give you abuse is quite absurd.

If I am a victim because I can't control others I guess we all are.

 

No you were looking to make youself look hard done to. Whinging again about how hard it is but still won't give it all up. And are we all suprised?

I really should stop using comparisons that nobody will understand.

 

Completely evaded erewhon2's point here. If its so meaningless get rid of it and help out without the pmod status. Of course we know you'll try to evade that too as you're afraid to be without it.

This is turning into a broken record. I'm not going to take your offer because that would make you think you're right.

 

Disputed by the original Jagex post and by Mod Catalina's response to me. Unless of course what you're trying to say is that they are wrong and you are right.

Mod Catalina does not work with the Player Mod Team. And you still managed to miss the question. Or is it too difficult.

 

No, I think Mod Catalina was pretty clear unless you really wanted her to say 'we didn't select by reports and our pmods were less than what we wanted so we are taking a new approach by selecting players who will fit in best with what we actually want them to do'.

Will respond later. Going to get some opinions.

 

Untrue because of in game experience and the many answers and denials from yourself and other pmods on here. Do you not realise that you represent the pmod community with your answers?

Do you not realize that it is a fallacy to say that one represents the whole?

 

Completely evaded the point. Local_guy is wrong, but he doesn't want to admit it. More to himself than anyone else I suspect. A lot of biting the hand that feeds him and dismissing what Jagex say does not exactly instill confidence in the old system, but as Erewhon2 states it will downgrade the status and more importantly provide pmods with at least some people who may actually know how to be a pmod as well as admit when they're wrong. Interesting about the self analysis point, maybe you should try it and think about why you contradict yourself a lot and try to be honest with yourself about your true motives.

Why admit I'm wrong when I believe I'm right? I have to wonder if this applies to you as well seeing as you ignore evidence that proves you wrong...

 

You're not providing any evidence at all. Dismissing the evidence put to you with ridiculous claims that Jagex aren't doing what they say they are, then lying about the way you were selected, to not bringing any hard evidence to the table means that other people read between the lines too.

Bull. The screenshots from within the game were mine, the Jagex article and Q&A answer work for my side as well, and I provided names of Pmods that have been doing community work long before this change. You, however, have two pieces of evidence that can be used to work against your point and resort to personal attacks when you're proven wrong. Your point is so weak that you compensate by attacking anyone that questions Jagex, and praise them as an irrefutable source. You require your opponents to back up opinions when you yourself does not have to. If this were a formal debate you probably would have lost many pages ago.

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Guest jrhairychest

Here's my direct quote I said to Troac on the same thing:

 

"You are obviously not employed in any capacity. If you were you'd understand what 'diplomacy' actually is. You don't sit a poor employee down and say "you're crap!". You tell them their good points (even if you have to make them up) and then put the "But..." in, just like Mod Catalina did. If Jagex state that they wanted this change because they didn't get what they wanted there would have been hissy fits galore with pmods. Instead they're being diplomatic. They've also been pretty frank that they selected via reports, which your pmod buds denied so vigorously and yet again are now proven wrong.

But that still is heavily based on interpretation. And as a result, not firm evidence.

Did you really want them to tell you a few home truths? Do you really think Jagex want to lose customers in their business? If they'd have told the mod population they were crap, do you think they would have stayed anyway?

 

Now why would Jagex give an opportunity to those who don't report a crack at being a pmod? If what they were selecting were fine then they'd have no need to. Try reading between the lines. They'd have continued with that selection process if it was fine and dandy. They want community players and they aren't going to get that by selecting reporters who are self obsessed. Players dealing with players instead of players reporting players. I'd have thought you'd have spotted this long ago in the initial Jagex report"

If you have to read between the lines it is only barely a direct quote. Evidence is face value, and an interpretation is personal.

Still doesn't deal with the issue of the change in direction. If what they were selecting was fine theres no reason to go into a new direction, especially if your new batch hardly report. Not exactly rocket science to work it out.

 

Again read above. Are you also going to disagree with what she said about your selection by reporting, which you were picked by? Do you still deny that you reported to gain pmod status?

Yes, and yes. And since it is either a first person source or a personal opinion I don't need to cite it do I?

Lmfao. Two Jmods say it and you still deny it. Sorry but to be blunt you are lying.

 

Again no evidence brought to the table. And btw these are mods on TET, not in-game pmods which are completely different things. You've still brought not anything to table that suggests that RS pmods (Not TET!) were involved in any community programmes or did anything that could be considered worthwhile.

The list I had was RS Pmods that are in the TET. And RS Pmods that ran community chats.

Right, and what about the rest of the pmod population? You've mentioned a few so what about the rest?

 

Still not denying it, so I think we know where we stand on that.

I think we can legally label you a troll then. If this is anything but baiting I'm a flying cobra.

I think the words cage and rattled spring to mind here. No idea how you can call anyone a troll when I make statements that you refuse to deny no matter how many times I give the opportunity. Ironically now you're all sensitive over the points I made so there must have been some truth to it. But at least I tell it how it is rather and more importantly I'm honest with myself.

 

Don't make the assumption that pmods are the fountain of all knowledge when they clearly aren't. This is trying to say pmods are game experts. I've seen many low level pmods with no skills to mention who cannot be factored as having any form of in-depth knowledge. This argument you give is a complete fallacy and its something for you to try to hide behind because you cannot back up your own statements about the crown being unimportant to you.

It is a complete fallacy to suggest that levels equal knowledge.

And how am I supposed to back up a personal opinion?

Levels equal experience and knowledge. It is absurd to suggest that a low level player will have the same experience of quests, skilling etc. as a high level player. Have a personal opinion all you want but don't be suprised if people disagree with it or tell you you're wrong.

 

You mean they ran off because they weren't up for someone challenging them?

While I agree that it is a challenge to argue with someone who holds such a double standard on evidence, I would suggest that you look at your posting style.

Lmfao double standards. I give you evidence and you provide little except personal opinion and things that you won't elaborate on. I've been given a lot of flak from your pmod supporting cronies and I'm still here. I'm quite amazed how many supporters of your cause on this post enjoy dishing out things, but they cannot take it back so they jump ship and leave.

 

I guess the truth hurts you.

Beats ignoring it, though.

Lmfao. Brilliant statement of your own irony. You should practice this sometime yes?

 

Their solutions were a lot better than the likes of pmods could ever hope to achieve. You even provided your own figures for that.

If you look around RWT is still around after all of their efforts to remove it. So, I guess they did just as well as their volunteers...

So, you deny your own figures on this? And RWT has been significantly reduced by Jagex. You still haven't got the idea that you and your other pmods couldn't actually do much about it in the first place. Please, its a little cheesy to try to take credit for things you haven't done much about.

 

If you're not enough without it then you should really re-consider why you do it. You don't need a crown to play RS, help people, report people or even break up arguments unless you're a weak person who has to stand behind a crown to do it. That shouldn't be too hard to understand.

True, but the perks that come with it are worth taking it for.

So, is this admitting that you cannot survive in RS without your crown?

 

Quite simple and no interpretation needed. The evidence is on this thread

:grin:

But of course, you won't cite it :grin:

You haven't quite clicked yet have you? You couldn't even convince the neutral posters about your cause. Your denials, lack of evidence and ignornace of things you won't admit are part of it all. In short, YOU are my evidence.

 

I've dealt with that point up above about your story conflicting with Jagex's story about how you were selected. Of course you're economical with the truth. I'm glad you are or this thread wouldn't have lasted so long or contained the things is does :thumbup:

Hey, if I give up, you win. And that's no fun :grin:

Why do you think I'm sitting here smiling? See above point.

 

Seeing as you're going to ignore my last post directed towards you local_guy its been an interesting read to say the least regarding Erewhon2's questions:

It's getting to the point where it's hard to see where one post ends and another begins. Especially with two very similar posters.

Try reading through it.

 

She correctly stated that you were painting yourself as the victim here. Wanting the crown then complaining that players ask questions or give you abuse is quite absurd.

If I am a victim because I can't control others I guess we all are.

No its painting a picture of a pmod who wants his crown when it suits him but doesn't understand why we're not taking his side when he complains.

 

No you were looking to make youself look hard done to. Whinging again about how hard it is but still won't give it all up. And are we all suprised?

I really should stop using comparisons that nobody will understand.

Or stop bulling people about the fact that you won't let the modship go because you want its status, then have the gall to complain how tough it is.

 

Completely evaded erewhon2's point here. If its so meaningless get rid of it and help out without the pmod status. Of course we know you'll try to evade that too as you're afraid to be without it.

This is turning into a broken record. I'm not going to take your offer because that would make you think you're right.

Lmfao you are giving me the giggles tonight. Sticking with your pmod status and telling us a hullabaloo about the crown not being important and that its about helping people actually proves me right. Being principled, demodding and saying 'There, its not about the status' proves me wrong.

 

Disputed by the original Jagex post and by Mod Catalina's response to me. Unless of course what you're trying to say is that they are wrong and you are right.

Mod Catalina does not work with the Player Mod Team. And you still managed to miss the question. Or is it too difficult.

Really? So, for the record, Mod Catalina does not know what she is talking about? As far as interpretation of argument goes as I've said before do you want truth or want to be loved?

 

No, I think Mod Catalina was pretty clear unless you really wanted her to say 'we didn't select by reports and our pmods were less than what we wanted so we are taking a new approach by selecting players who will fit in best with what we actually want them to do'.

Will respond later. Going to get some opinions.

Looking forward to it.

 

Untrue because of in game experience and the many answers and denials from yourself and other pmods on here. Do you not realise that you represent the pmod community with your answers?

Do you not realize that it is a fallacy to say that one represents the whole?

Oh dear....You either are or not a representative of your pmod community. Not just when it suits you.

 

Completely evaded the point. Local_guy is wrong, but he doesn't want to admit it. More to himself than anyone else I suspect. A lot of biting the hand that feeds him and dismissing what Jagex say does not exactly instill confidence in the old system, but as Erewhon2 states it will downgrade the status and more importantly provide pmods with at least some people who may actually know how to be a pmod as well as admit when they're wrong. Interesting about the self analysis point, maybe you should try it and think about why you contradict yourself a lot and try to be honest with yourself about your true motives.

Why admit I'm wrong when I believe I'm right? I have to wonder if this applies to you as well seeing as you ignore evidence that proves you wrong...

Give me evidence and I will look at it. You have none.

 

Can't quote anymore so I'm sure you can read this section:

 

You're not providing any evidence at all. Dismissing the evidence put to you with ridiculous claims that Jagex aren't doing what they say they are, then lying about the way you were selected, to not bringing any hard evidence to the table means that other people read between the lines too.

Bull. The screenshots from within the game were mine, the Jagex article and Q&A answer work for my side as well, and I provided names of Pmods that have been doing community work long before this change. You, however, have two pieces of evidence that can be used to work against your point and resort to personal attacks when you're proven wrong. Your point is so weak that you compensate by attacking anyone that questions Jagex, and praise them as an irrefutable source. You require your opponents to back up opinions when you yourself does not have to. If this were a formal debate you probably would have lost many pages ago.

 

 

You haven't proven anything. A small list of names? Screenshots that are in the KB? This has proven nothing. You mean by my use of Jagex I use actual proof of things...is that what has rattled your cage? Or the fact that you were selected by reports which is indisputable yet you lie about it, you have the temerity to dismiss the evidence from the company that made you a pmod and claiming theres no truths in what they say, yet I'm supposed to trust you whose word has been proven to be unreliable? You have even had the opportunity to convince neautral posters with your 'evidence' and your disputes yet have failed to do so. I'd say that in a formal debate, you would have been laughed out of the room at the evidence in front of you.

 

I don't need to personally attack people. If I did you would know about it.

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Did you really want them to tell you a few home truths? Do you really think Jagex want to lose customers in their business? If they'd have told the mod population they were crap, do you think they would have stayed anyway?

So you admit that they were not entirely honest?

A lie told because the truth is inconvenient is still a lie, isn't it? Why spend so much time accusing me of lying when you just caught Jagex in one?

 

Still doesn't deal with the issue of the change in direction. If what they were selecting was fine theres no reason to go into a new direction, especially if your new batch hardly report. Not exactly rocket science to work it out.

But, if it was not fine because they weren't getting enough people. That is something they said directly. And you yourself gave enough reasons why a new direction would be good, including that the community outgrew the old role.

 

Lmfao. Two Jmods say it and you still deny it. Sorry but to be blunt you are lying.

But apparently so is Jagex.

 

Right, and what about the rest of the pmod population? You've mentioned a few so what about the rest?

I remember mentioning several mod run community initiatives. Plus there are bound to be many mods in clans or on fansites like this one.

How does it suit you to use me as an example of the entire communtity, but require a large amount of names as a counterexample?

 

I think the words cage and rattled spring to mind here. No idea how you can call anyone a troll when I make statements that you refuse to deny no matter how many times I give the opportunity. Ironically now you're all sensitive over the points I made so there must have been some truth to it. But at least I tell it how it is rather and more importantly I'm honest with myself.

Alongside those you make statements that are quite obviously intended to draw out emotional responses. That's trolling.

 

Levels equal experience and knowledge. It is absurd to suggest that a low level player will have the same experience of quests, skilling etc. as a high level player. Have a personal opinion all you want but don't be suprised if people disagree with it or tell you you're wrong.

And the high level players that are only where they are by following guides are more knowledgeable than the low level players that levelled more slowly because they were figuring it out for themselves? You may as well say that the level 99 cooks that did nothing but use monkfish on a fire in the rogues den know more than the lower levelled cook that played DIY.

 

Lmfao double standards. I give you evidence and you provide little except personal opinion and things that you won't elaborate on. I've been given a lot of flak from your pmod supporting cronies and I'm still here. I'm quite amazed how many supporters of your cause on this post enjoy dishing out things, but they cannot take it back so they jump ship and leave.

Your evidence is personal opinion.

 

Lmfao. Brilliant statement of your own irony. You should practice this sometime yes?

Denying is the same as ignoring?

 

So, you deny your own figures on this? And RWT has been significantly reduced by Jagex. You still haven't got the idea that you and your other pmods couldn't actually do much about it in the first place. Please, its a little cheesy to try to take credit for things you haven't done much about.

Taking credit? No, no, I was talking about how extreme the Jagex cures were. Pmods couldn't do much, true, and that may even be part of the shift in the role.

 

So, is this admitting that you cannot survive in RS without your crown?

Where did you get that idea?

 

You haven't quite clicked yet have you? You couldn't even convince the neutral posters about your cause. Your denials, lack of evidence and ignornace of things you won't admit are part of it all. In short, YOU are my evidence.

I can't say I ever remember neutral posters here. I'm pretty sure Erewhon2 started off leaning towards your side to the point where it raised at least one red flag.

 

Why do you think I'm sitting here smiling? See above point.

 

 

Try reading through it.

I'm still getting used to this new posting format, by the way, do you know how to use the multi-quote button? :lol:

 

No its painting a picture of a pmod who wants his crown when it suits him but doesn't understand why we're not taking his side when he complains.

Are you reading my posts? Most are about taking the good with the bad. I even said it just like that at least once.

 

Or stop bulling people about the fact that you won't let the modship go because you want its status, then have the gall to complain how tough it is.

But I don't want its status, I want its purpose.

 

Lmfao you are giving me the giggles tonight. Sticking with your pmod status and telling us a hullabaloo about the crown not being important and that its about helping people actually proves me right. Being principled, demodding and saying 'There, its not about the status' proves me wrong.

No, because demodding admits that there is no purpose worth keeping.

 

Really? So, for the record, Mod Catalina does not know what she is talking about? As far as interpretation of argument goes as I've said before do you want truth or want to be loved?

Remember the thing about Mod Mat K claiming that the player did not lose 300m from a bug at MA?

 

Oh dear....You either are or not a representative of your pmod community. Not just when it suits you.

It's fallacious to assume that I represent several thousand people.

 

Give me evidence and I will look at it. You have none.

You mean I have none that you haven't ignored...

 

Can't quote anymore so I'm sure you can read this section:

 

You're not providing any evidence at all. Dismissing the evidence put to you with ridiculous claims that Jagex aren't doing what they say they are, then lying about the way you were selected, to not bringing any hard evidence to the table means that other people read between the lines too.

See: My own interpretation of the two Jagex sources (worth as much as yours), my ingame screenshots of resources available to new players, and for extra fun your lack of any evidence that dated back to before that article's publishing.

 

You haven't proven anything. A small list of names? Screenshots that are in the KB? This has proven nothing. You mean by my use of Jagex I use actual proof of things...is that what has rattled your cage? Or the fact that you were selected by reports which is indisputable yet you lie about it, you have the temerity to dismiss the evidence from the company that made you a pmod and claiming theres no truths in what they say, yet I'm supposed to trust you whose word has been proven to be unreliable? You have even had the opportunity to convince neautral posters with your 'evidence' and your disputes yet have failed to do so. I'd say that in a formal debate, you would have been laughed out of the room at the evidence in front of you.

So a screenshot of an ingame resource listing the reasons people are selected for modding proves nothing about the mod selection process? And an analysis of the same source you used is equally invalid? You're blatantly ignoring evidence.

And since I am providing no evidence, you can easily ignore anything valid I may have to say. In doing so you don't actually have to defend your point beyond "Jagex said it, and they don't lie, so anything contradictory is a lie".

 

I don't need to personally attack people. If I did you would know about it.

But I do know about it. Why else would I have called you on it?

 

As if this post wasn't long enough already...

[hide]

I have to confess that I have not read all the posts in this thread, but I have kept track of the general discussion and some of the very personalised targeting! :shame:

 

 

 

What I don't understand is the misrepresentation and lack of understanding that some appear to be demonstrating. Although jrhairychest opened the debate with some very pointed remarks, his continual debate (supported by others I might add) seems to have a clear basis that is now evidenced by Jagex:

 

 

 

i.e: "Going from a team of several thousand moderators who’ve always been asked to concentrate on reporting things, to a team who focus more on community involvement, is no small task." (Mod Hohbein, author of the Jagex blog on volunteer moderators).

 

 

 

I think this is very clear! Now why would anyone want to play a fun game like rs, then spend all their time reporting other players? What does that say about their personality? Their need to be 'better' or more 'superior' than others? I would suggest that some of you read and really take on board the significant and positive development that Jagex are trying to achieve and stop being so aggressively defensive about something that needed to be improved. :?

 

 

 

My own experience of pmods is to sigh when the crown appears and be prepared for a patronising display of arrogance and egotistical, self indulgence. Before you shout at me....not every pmod is like this, but a very large amount are, hence my automatic reaction when I see the crown appear. :roll:

[/hide]

This is as far as I can tell the first post Erewhon2 made on this thread. This is not the post of a user that is on the fence. This is the post of a user that has her mind set on one direction. From that, I can conclude that you have lied about convincing other posters. So are we liars on the same level now? :thumbsup:

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I am concerned at the continual arguements and personalised attacks stating that there is no evidence in support of this thread. Yes there are a lot of opinions, but some of those count as evidence in their own right, in a couple of instances because they are from PMods or someone who has been a Pmod.

I would add, that in completing this trawl of the posts, I have been gratified by the strength of support there has been from players and not just 'one or two'! I have not included repeats unless it appeared to bring more evidence to the debate. I have also kept the list as simple as possible.

 

  • Est0rrath - Status
  • 00hydro - Status
  • Sees-all1 - Doesn't see the need for a crown
  • Computergee - Status
  • ThedayRSdied - Pmods are worthless
  • Langer - Pmods not needed, reporting for modship is distasteful
  • Dark Aura - Gave an example of very poor mod behaviour
  • abc1230 - Pmods are pointless
  • Funnisam - Status
  • Lamdan - Is a Pmod; admits 'status'
  • Moneya - Status
  • Jenove - Status
  • Sworddude198 - Doesn't like Pmods
  • Bluelancer - Was a Pmod; said they're not fit to be role models
  • mmmcannibalism - Is a Pmod; status
  • Cheeseater - Provides evidential video link of appalling Pmod behaviour

  • Troacctid - Provides evidential link to Jagex post on Pmod changes and selection process http://devblog.runescape.com/c=yES6escXA0o/view_post.ws?post_id=20
  • Jrhairychest - Also provides Jagex link
  • Bluelancer - Provides evidential screenshot of inappropriate mod behaviour and states he has many more examples Page 15
  • Est0rrath - Provides relevant information regarding "Mod failure" on another thread Page 16
  • Fairness - Wants Pmod system abolished
  • Bauke - Indicates Pmods are better very recently compared to before
  • Zierro - Status
  • Erewhon2 - Provides direct quote from Jagex Page 18
  • Jrhairychest - Provides link to new selection process http://forum.[Please Use QuickFind Code].ws?103,104,0,59341959
  • a_local_guy - Is a Pmod; doesn't like being asked questions or people adding him, prefers the old Pmod role
  • Howlin0001 - Is a Pmod; equates his role with being in the Police force! That is so scary :unsure:
  • Randox - Equates the crown to power over others
  • Expl0de - Thinks Pmods are "The Law"
  • a_local_guy - Doing it for what he feels is "the greater good" and is still pmodding under the old system
  • a_local_guy - Provides evidential screenshot of Lumbridge Guide telling potential wannabe's to report those that break the rules and basically 'be nice' as if that can be monitored! (reporting being the main focus) Page 23
  • RayOxide - No reason for Pmods
  • Orioles - Status
  • Jake_corsair - Is a Pmod; agrees status, and then adds purpose, then gives a wonderful example of equating Pmod status to achieving skillcapes! Lmao
  • PyroZerkerX - Status

 

What can I say? It is all there, clear and concise and I have purposely added the links that were used. I haven't done the screenshots because it would make this post far to long, but I have noted the page that they are on in the list.

 

Now tell me again that there is no evidence in support of this thread, or that only one or two people are in agreement!!!! :shame:

 

As for the personal aspect of why someone should choose to be a Pmod, I have been asking that from the beginning, what is it about being a Pmod that gives you such gratification? Why do you need it? Especially considering the opinions and evidence above. And for my part, I wasn't keen on the whole Pmod thing, but was open to opinions, but reading the thread posts and the immediate responses to my first posts, clarified that I was right all along and since then have only strengthened my views.

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I am concerned at the continual arguements and personalised attacks stating that there is no evidence in support of this thread. Yes there are a lot of opinions, but some of those count as evidence in their own right, in a couple of instances because they are from PMods or someone who has been a Pmod.

Yet you continue to value some evidence over others.

I would add, that in completing this trawl of the posts, I have been gratified by the strength of support there has been from players and not just 'one or two'! I have not included repeats unless it appeared to bring more evidence to the debate. I have also kept the list as simple as possible.

How many provided more than one post or have given a reason?

 

  • Est0rrath - Status
     
  • 00hydro - Status
  • Sees-all1 - Doesn't see the need for a crown
  • Computergee - Status
  • ThedayRSdied - Pmods are worthless
    Not the subject of the argument
  • Langer - Pmods not needed, reporting for modship is distasteful
    Nothing to do with status
  • Dark Aura - Gave an example of very poor mod behaviour
    One does not equal all. Still says nothing about status v. purpose.
  • abc1230 - Pmods are pointless
    Yet manages to be in a clan with several mods, and still does not address purpose v. status.
  • Funnisam - Status
  • Lamdan - Is a Pmod; admits 'status'
  • Moneya - Status
  • Jenove - Status
  • Sworddude198 - Doesn't like Pmods
    Doesn't address purpose v. status
  • Bluelancer - Was a Pmod; said they're not fit to be role models
    Was.
  • mmmcannibalism - Is a Pmod; status
    Disputed.
  • Cheeseater - Provides evidential video link of appalling Pmod behaviour http://www.youtube.c...h?v=j08RyRu4z38
    Doesn't address purpose v. status
  • Troacctid - Provides evidential link to Jagex post on Pmod changes and selection process http://devblog.runescape.com/c=yES6escXA0o/view_post.ws?post_id=20
  • Jrhairychest - Also provides Jagex link
  • Bluelancer - Provides evidential screenshot of inappropriate mod behaviour and states he has many more examples Page 15
    Doesn't address purpose v. status, is not a current pmod
  • Est0rrath - Provides relevant information regarding "Mod failure" on another thread Page 16
    Doesn't address purpose v. status
  • Fairness - Wants Pmod system abolished
    Doesn't address purpose v. status
  • Bauke - Indicates Pmods are better very recently compared to before
    Doesn't address purpose v. status
  • Zierro - Status
  • Erewhon2 - Provides direct quote from Jagex Page 18
  • Jrhairychest - Provides link to new selection process http://forum.runesca...,104,0,59341959
  • a_local_guy - Is a Pmod; doesn't like being asked questions or people adding him, prefers the old Pmod role
    Prefers the purpose, then.
  • Howlin0001 - Is a Pmod; equates his role with being in the Police force! That is so scary :unsure:
  • Randox - Equates the crown to power over others
    Addresses purpose, not status
  • Expl0de - Thinks Pmods are "The Law"
    Addresses purpose, not status
  • a_local_guy - Doing it for what he feels is "the greater good" and is still pmodding under the old system
    Again, purpose
  • a_local_guy - Provides evidential screenshot of Lumbridge Guide telling potential wannabe's to report those that break the rules and basically 'be nice' as if that can be monitored! (reporting being the main focus) Page 23
    But as an ingame source it is a direct quote from Jagex.
  • RayOxide - No reason for Pmods
    Doesn't address purpose v. status
  • Orioles - Status
  • Jake_corsair - Is a Pmod; agrees status, and then adds purpose, then gives a wonderful example of equating Pmod status to achieving skillcapes! Lmao
    So you laugh at a comparison of the role to status? Does that mean it's purpose?
  • PyroZerkerX - Status
    Has made just one post here and barely expressed his opinion.

 

What can I say? It is all there, clear and concise and I have purposely added the links that were used. I haven't done the screenshots because it would make this post far to long, but I have noted the page that they are on in the list.

Naturally it is biased towards your point in that anyone for purpose is made to look bad, though.

 

Now tell me again that there is no evidence in support of this thread, or that only one or two people are in agreement!!!! :shame:

Only one or two people are repeat posters. You cannot say that so many people agree with you if they aren't here now, can you?

 

As for the personal aspect of why someone should choose to be a Pmod, I have been asking that from the beginning, what is it about being a Pmod that gives you such gratification? Why do you need it? Especially considering the opinions and evidence above. And for my part, I wasn't keen on the whole Pmod thing, but was open to opinions, but reading the thread posts and the immediate responses to my first posts, clarified that I was right all along and since then have only strengthened my views.

Because I enjoy being helpful, I enjoy being a part of the mod community (They throw great parties), and it's very interesting to see how the system works. There's your new answer.

As for opinions, I'd say it's pretty good to do something because I want to and not because everyone else says it's good.

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Guest jrhairychest

 

So you admit that they were not entirely honest?

A lie told because the truth is inconvenient is still a lie, isn't it? Why spend so much time accusing me of lying when you just caught Jagex in one?

Ok then I'm sure you'd have been very happy if they told you are crap then. Your choice. I just thought they were being nice by sparing your feelings on the subject, and making it good business sense.:huh:

 

But, if it was not fine because they weren't getting enough people. That is something they said directly. And you yourself gave enough reasons why a new direction would be good, including that the community outgrew the old role.

Nope, they werent getting enough of the right TYPE of player. Lets get that fact straight. The new direction supports this. If they wanted reporters they'd have continued with it.

 

 

Lmfao. Two Jmods say it and you still deny it. Sorry but to be blunt you are lying.

But apparently so is Jagex.

I'd strongly recommend you speak to Jagex. Its clear no matter what they post you think its a lie. I can't believe you think so little of them considering the position that they gave you. You're either ungrateful, naive or just plain idiotic to suggest such things. It only takes one Jmod to read what you write about them and your points of view and that'll mark your card. You do realise this don't you?

 

I remember mentioning several mod run community initiatives. Plus there are bound to be many mods in clans or on fansites like this one.

How does it suit you to use me as an example of the entire communtity, but require a large amount of names as a counterexample?

Yes and I asked for evidence of such mod run initiatives, which never materialised. You speak of many great things done by a yourself and a significant number of other mods, so give me the evidence. Put your money where your mouth is.

 

Alongside those you make statements that are quite obviously intended to draw out emotional responses. That's trolling.

No, its when local_guy doesn't know how to answer the question as he knows Jrhairychest has a point so he accuses me of trolling to try to wriggle out of answering.

 

And the high level players that are only where they are by following guides are more knowledgeable than the low level players that levelled more slowly because they were figuring it out for themselves? You may as well say that the level 99 cooks that did nothing but use monkfish on a fire in the rogues den know more than the lower levelled cook that played DIY.

Everybody figures out what's best for themselves. If someone wants a quick 99 like cooking they will do the fastest regardless. You're saying here that high level players use guides and lower levels don't. Completely ridiculous. Players place more trust in those who've got the levels rather than someone who hasn't.

 

Your evidence is personal opinion.

My evidence is backed up. Yours isn't and thats your problem because you know you can't back it up.

 

Denying is the same as ignoring?

Well lets just say you're very choosy about points that you want to tackle.

 

So, you deny your own figures on this? And RWT has been significantly reduced by Jagex. You still haven't got the idea that you and your other pmods couldn't actually do much about it in the first place. Please, its a little cheesy to try to take credit for things you haven't done much about.

Taking credit? No, no, I was talking about how extreme the Jagex cures were. Pmods couldn't do much, true, and that may even be part of the shift in the role.

Extreme did the job it was supposed to do. You now admit Jagex did it, not pmods. I'm glad we agree on this.

 

Where did you get that idea?

You agreed with my statement that you were not enough without the crown. Read it for yourself.

 

I can't say I ever remember neutral posters here. I'm pretty sure Erewhon2 started off leaning towards your side to the point where it raised at least one red flag.

Erewhon2 was there for the taking but you neglected to convince her as you wouldn't answer the questions she posed, Langer the same and he admitted the Jagex statement shed some light on things. The more evidence that comes to light the more your supporters seem to leave.

 

Try reading through it.

I'm still getting used to this new posting format, by the way, do you know how to use the multi-quote button? :lol:

Of course

 

Are you reading my posts? Most are about taking the good with the bad. I even said it just like that at least once.

I love reading your posts :-D . You've whinged plenty of times about the bad press, how hard it is, the abuse etc. The latest in your posts with Erewhon2 stick out like a sore thumb.

 

But I don't want its status, I want its purpose.

Serve the purpose without status. Anyone can. Prove your mettle and principle so that you may redeem yourself and take your balls back.

 

No, because demodding admits that there is no purpose worth keeping.

Incorrect. You'll prove to the world your status doesn't matter, I'll stand corrected and you can still go around helping/reporting or whatever makes you happy in game.

 

Remember the thing about Mod Mat K claiming that the player did not lose 300m from a bug at MA?

Answer the question, don't evade it. You're saying Mod Catalina does not know what she is talking about?

 

It's fallacious to assume that I represent several thousand people.

You ARE representative of the pmod community. You post on a fansite, here and now, saying "I'm a pmod and I do it for purpose". When people see your posts they assume this could be the views of all pmods.

 

You mean I have none that you haven't ignored...

I'm still waiting. I haven't ignored anything. Every point answered so get some evidence.

 

See: My own interpretation of the two Jagex sources (worth as much as yours), my ingame screenshots of resources available to new players, and for extra fun your lack of any evidence that dated back to before that article's publishing.

Lmfao. Some screenshots of the pmod stuff from the town cryer versus screenshots and videos of poor pmods, a full jagex article and a Q&A. You lose. Yes you've made many claims about wonderful things the pmod community does but I see nothing in front of me.

 

So a screenshot of an ingame resource listing the reasons people are selected for modding proves nothing about the mod selection process? And an analysis of the same source you used is equally invalid? You're blatantly ignoring evidence.

And since I am providing no evidence, you can easily ignore anything valid I may have to say. In doing so you don't actually have to defend your point beyond "Jagex said it, and they don't lie, so anything contradictory is a lie".

Your screenshot was dealt with before. A party line, remember so that people were not actively encouraged to report everyone and everything? In the interests of Jagex to not get inundated with ridiculous amounts of reports from the wannabe community?

 

Are you actually employed in any capacity? Not looking for any particular details but if you were then you'd know there are certain things you don't tell your clients.

 

I don't need to personally attack people. If I did you would know about it.

But I do know about it. Why else would I have called you on it?

So you've turned all sensitive all of a sudden? Fine, do what you do best and hit the report button if I'm being offensive.

 

I am concerned at the continual arguements and personalised attacks stating that there is no evidence in support of this thread. Yes there are a lot of opinions, but some of those count as evidence in their own right, in a couple of instances because they are from PMods or someone who has been a Pmod.

Yet you continue to value some evidence over others.

Such as? Elaborate and lets she why she favoured certain evidence of yours.

 

I would add, that in completing this trawl of the posts, I have been gratified by the strength of support there has been from players and not just 'one or two'! I have not included repeats unless it appeared to bring more evidence to the debate. I have also kept the list as simple as possible.

How many provided more than one post or have given a reason?

Was there a criteria? Erewhon2 has taken the time to go through the posts to pick up on the fact that its not just a few supporters.

 

  • Est0rrath - Status
     
  • 00hydro - Status
  • Sees-all1 - Doesn't see the need for a crown
  • Computergee - Status
  • ThedayRSdied - Pmods are worthless
    Not the subject of the argument
    His opinion. We're allowed to have one. Remember?
  • Langer - Pmods not needed, reporting for modship is distasteful
    Nothing to do with status
    We know players reported to gain status
  • Dark Aura - Gave an example of very poor mod behaviour
    One does not equal all. Still says nothing about status v. purpose.
    Proving the abuse of power through status
  • abc1230 - Pmods are pointless
    Yet manages to be in a clan with several mods, and still does not address purpose v. status.
    So he's actually given a more honest interpretation as he frequents with them. Pointless means no purpose. Status.
  • Funnisam - Status
  • Lamdan - Is a Pmod; admits 'status'
    Conveniently ignored this one
  • Moneya - Status
  • Jenove - Status
  • Sworddude198 - Doesn't like Pmods
    Doesn't address purpose v. status
    Opinion. He's allowed or is this banned again?
  • Bluelancer - Was a Pmod; said they're not fit to be role models
    Was.
    Way before you by the sounds of it. I'd say he's in a much stronger position to talk than you.
  • mmmcannibalism - Is a Pmod; status
    Disputed.
    Evidenced from his own post. Agreed most pmods would not do it without the crown
  • Cheeseater - Provides evidential video link of appalling Pmod behaviour http://www.youtube.c...h?v=j08RyRu4z38
    Doesn't address purpose v. status
    Again abuse of power cannot be called purpose.
  • Troacctid - Provides evidential link to Jagex post on Pmod changes and selection process http://devblog.runescape.com/c=yES6escXA0o/view_post.ws?post_id=20
  • Jrhairychest - Also provides Jagex link
  • Bluelancer - Provides evidential screenshot of inappropriate mod behaviour and states he has many more examples Page 15
    Doesn't address purpose v. status, is not a current pmod
    More abuse. With the others proves the pmod system of selecting via reports wasn't working.
  • Est0rrath - Provides relevant information regarding "Mod failure" on another thread Page 16
    Doesn't address purpose v. status
    See above.
  • Fairness - Wants Pmod system abolished
    Doesn't address purpose v. status
    His opinion and entitled to it.
  • Bauke - Indicates Pmods are better very recently compared to before
    Doesn't address purpose v. status
    His opinion...oh I forgot only pmod supporters are allowed to have those.
  • Zierro - Status
  • Erewhon2 - Provides direct quote from Jagex Page 18
  • Jrhairychest - Provides link to new selection process http://forum.runesca...,104,0,59341959
  • a_local_guy - Is a Pmod; doesn't like being asked questions or people adding him, prefers the old Pmod role
    Prefers the purpose, then.
    Mr hideaway decided to change his mind completely on this later on. No surpise there.
  • Howlin0001 - Is a Pmod; equates his role with being in the Police force! That is so scary :unsure:
  • Randox - Equates the crown to power over others
    Addresses purpose, not status

  • Expl0de - Thinks Pmods are "The Law"
    Addresses purpose, not status
    Purpose is not bullying players because you 'think' you have power.
  • a_local_guy - Doing it for what he feels is "the greater good" and is still pmodding under the old system
    Again, purpose
    Cannot accept change. No longer the plastic police but party guy. Won't accept the new role as it means his crown means less.
  • a_local_guy - Provides evidential screenshot of Lumbridge Guide telling potential wannabe's to report those that break the rules and basically 'be nice' as if that can be monitored! (reporting being the main focus) Page 23
    But as an ingame source it is a direct quote from Jagex.
    Had a good laugh at that.
  • RayOxide - No reason for Pmods
    Doesn't address purpose v. status
    No reason = no purpose
  • Orioles - Status
  • Jake_corsair - Is a Pmod; agrees status, and then adds purpose, then gives a wonderful example of equating Pmod status to achieving skillcapes! Lmao
    So you laugh at a comparison of the role to status? Does that mean it's purpose?
    Agrees status. Admits he's a snitch at work.
  • PyroZerkerX - Status
    Has made just one post here and barely expressed his opinion.
    An opinion he's entitled to have.

 

What can I say? It is all there, clear and concise and I have purposely added the links that were used. I haven't done the screenshots because it would make this post far to long, but I have noted the page that they are on in the list.

Naturally it is biased towards your point in that anyone for purpose is made to look bad, though.

Actually I think she just peed on your bonfire. Fact is there are many players out there who either don't like pmods and/or believe its a status. Dismissing this proves that you ignorant to the failings of the old system of pmod, including those who just use it for a status symbol. You haven't helped your own cause in the slightest.

 

Now tell me again that there is no evidence in support of this thread, or that only one or two people are in agreement!!!! :shame:

Only one or two people are repeat posters. You cannot say that so many people agree with you if they aren't here now, can you?

I didn't realise there was a quota you had to make to show support.

 

As for the personal aspect of why someone should choose to be a Pmod, I have been asking that from the beginning, what is it about being a Pmod that gives you such gratification? Why do you need it? Especially considering the opinions and evidence above. And for my part, I wasn't keen on the whole Pmod thing, but was open to opinions, but reading the thread posts and the immediate responses to my first posts, clarified that I was right all along and since then have only strengthened my views.

Because I enjoy being helpful, I enjoy being a part of the mod community (They throw great parties), and it's very interesting to see how the system works. There's your new answer.

As for opinions, I'd say it's pretty good to do something because I want to and not because everyone else says it's good.

Wow you change your mind more than a lingerie model changes her underwear! Not the responses you've been posting on here lmao. Hilarious! :lol:

 

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Seems to me you are basing your views on all mods based on the actions of a few bad eggs. Player moderators like all people come in many different personalities. I am a player moderator myself, and I do not fit any of the criteria listed in the OP.

 

*Mods claim to be 'ordinary players' - Would they want the status if it gave you no crown visible to other players? No they would be unhappy because they 'want' other players to know they are mods - hence they do it for the status. Many who then achieve modship then revert back to the 'its not my problem' routine.
I for one do not go out of my way to make it know that I am a moderator.

 

*Why give status to people who will gleefully report others - In my mind you get status for hard work, not at the expense of others (PVP excepted). I find this 'looking for trouble' element of it distasteful as it encourages players to snitch, rather than use common sense.
If someone is breaking important rules, such as selling accounts, advertising websites etc. do you feel there should be no repercussions?

 

*Why do they insist on giving lectures to players instead of fact? When a mod is around it is permanently littered with mod chat.
Giving lectures? I have never done this myself, in fact I usually only give my opinion on a matter when asked.

 

 

*Why, when questioned about how they got their modship do they instantly tele or block a player? - Something to be scared of?

I have never done this, I tend to direct players to the knowledge base which they can utilize to answer most questions they have regarding moderators.

 

*Why get shirty with players like myself who will disagree with a mods knowledge, yet threaten to mute me for it because I dare to disagree. Happened on more than one occasion. I don't need to be told off like a child or spoken to as if I don't know what I'm doing.
If a moderator is threatening to mute you they are abusing their power and can even lose their moderator status for doing so.

 

I guess what it comes down to is that one cannot lump an entire group of people together and claim they are all the same. I can only hope these negative qualities you attributed to moderators are in fact the minority.

sigraniiixx.gifEye-X.gif

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[spoiler=Stats:]Updated December 22, 2011:

 

Total level - 1442 - 170M+ XP , Combat level - 115

Combat skills: Attack - 90, Defence - 99 (24.45m+ XP), Strength - 90, Constitution - 99 (16.42M+ XP) Ranged - 99 (13.32M+ XP), Prayer - 60, Magic - 99 (13.25M+ XP)

Non-Combat skills: Cooking - 99 (13.80M+ XP), Woodcutting - 99 (31.95M+ XP), Fishing - 90, Firemaking - 99 (24.82M+), Crafting - 90, Smithing - 90, Mining - 85, Runecrafting - 60, Dungeoneering - 85

 

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Ok then I'm sure you'd have been very happy if they told you are crap then. Your choice. I just thought they were being nice by sparing your feelings on the subject, and making it good business sense.:huh:

I'd prefer honesty, personally, especially relating to this.

 

Nope, they werent getting enough of the right TYPE of player. Lets get that fact straight. The new direction supports this. If they wanted reporters they'd have continued with it.

But they also had many opportunities to change it before if it wasn't working.

 

I'd strongly recommend you speak to Jagex. Its clear no matter what they post you think its a lie. I can't believe you think so little of them considering the position that they gave you. You're either ungrateful, naive or just plain idiotic to suggest such things. It only takes one Jmod to read what you write about them and your points of view and that'll mark your card. You do realise this don't you?

I admit to thinking differently than they do. I only think a few things are lies, but if you're posting about how they wouldn't lie I have to point them out.

Not like them being dishonest changes the game for me or anyone else, does it?

 

Yes and I asked for evidence of such mod run initiatives, which never materialised. You speak of many great things done by a yourself and a significant number of other mods, so give me the evidence. Put your money where your mouth is.

Ad Busters (A clan chat, always open). The RSHC chat (and clan-thread 90-91-427-57898234). Those are two that were fairly easy to find, at least.

 

No, its when local_guy doesn't know how to answer the question as he knows Jrhairychest has a point so he accuses me of trolling to try to wriggle out of answering.

You mean in addition to the actual personal attacks and baiting, right? The original point you posted here was a personal attack, not a legitimate point.

 

Everybody figures out what's best for themselves. If someone wants a quick 99 like cooking they will do the fastest regardless. You're saying here that high level players use guides and lower levels don't. Completely ridiculous. Players place more trust in those who've got the levels rather than someone who hasn't.

But it is clear that a more knowledgeable player is the one that has tried everything and stuck with it, not the guy that heard what the "best" way was and used that.

 

My evidence is backed up. Yours isn't and thats your problem because you know you can't back it up.

How am I supposed to back up an opinion? You frequently accuse me of lying when I do.

 

Well lets just say you're very choosy about points that you want to tackle.

Somehow I manage to post an answer to each paragraph/line, though.

 

Extreme did the job it was supposed to do. You now admit Jagex did it, not pmods. I'm glad we agree on this.

Yet was it prevention or a cure that did the job? You originally posted that prevention is better than a cure, yet here you go back on it saying that the cure did better than prevention.

 

You agreed with my statement that you were not enough without the crown. Read it for yourself.

Okay, which post do I read? Where? Be clearer, please.

 

Erewhon2 was there for the taking but you neglected to convince her as you wouldn't answer the questions she posed, Langer the same and he admitted the Jagex statement shed some light on things. The more evidence that comes to light the more your supporters seem to leave.

I've found that if people respond better to something that they agree with. If she already had negative preconceptions about mods, would it be easier to completely flip those over, or to solidify them? Neutrality is a blank slate, bias is not.

 

Of course

I love reading your posts :-D . You've whinged plenty of times about the bad press, how hard it is, the abuse etc. The latest in your posts with Erewhon2 stick out like a sore thumb.

 

Serve the purpose without status. Anyone can. Prove your mettle and principle so that you may redeem yourself and take your balls back.

I feel that I'm doing that. I'm not going around yelling out "Look at me I'm special" and any time someone acts like it, I respond with a joke that downplays it. That isn't a status seeker, is it?

 

Incorrect. You'll prove to the world your status doesn't matter, I'll stand corrected and you can still go around helping/reporting or whatever makes you happy in game.

For some reason I doubt that would happen.

 

Answer the question, don't evade it. You're saying Mod Catalina does not know what she is talking about?

I am saying that Jagex mods have done so before. And rarely are their posts on such topics their opinions but what their company says they should post.

 

You ARE representative of the pmod community. You post on a fansite, here and now, saying "I'm a pmod and I do it for purpose". When people see your posts they assume this could be the views of all pmods.

And yet as a large part of this fansite probably knows, I barely act like they think one should ingame.

 

I'm still waiting. I haven't ignored anything. Every point answered so get some evidence.

In progress. Watch This offsite thread for a while.

 

Lmfao. Some screenshots of the pmod stuff from the town cryer versus screenshots and videos of poor pmods, a full jagex article and a Q&A. You lose. Yes you've made many claims about wonderful things the pmod community does but I see nothing in front of me.

The town crier reflects what Jagex wants people who play the game to think about their mods. The video showed a mod who wanted the account banned. The article and Jagex post is evidence that you "read between the lines" to get. And there are at least two clan chats in front of you higher on the page that involve mods not in it for the status.

 

Your screenshot was dealt with before. A party line, remember so that people were not actively encouraged to report everyone and everything? In the interests of Jagex to not get inundated with ridiculous amounts of reports from the wannabe community?

Yet why give blatantly wrong information to players? Especially when people did send ridiculous amounts of reports in the hopes of becoming mods. And where are they now?

 

Are you actually employed in any capacity? Not looking for any particular details but if you were then you'd know there are certain things you don't tell your clients.

I'm aware of that. Yet if there are certain things that you don't tell your customers, there are things that you do tell them, and those are the things that make you look good. Just look at any business advertising that it has "gone green".

 

So you've turned all sensitive all of a sudden? Fine, do what you do best and hit the report button if I'm being offensive.

What purpose would that serve?

 

Such as? Elaborate and lets she why she favoured certain evidence of yours.

For one, it supported what she already thought.

 

Was there a criteria? Erewhon2 has taken the time to go through the posts to pick up on the fact that its not just a few supporters.

A debate is about proving your points. And it shows that it isn't just the purpose side that hasn't been sticking around.

 

His opinion. We're allowed to have one. Remember?

Purpose vs. Status is the debate though, not good or bad.

We know players reported to gain status

As Jagex started saying now.

Proving the abuse of power through status

Bad behavior is bad behavior, not status abuse.

So he's actually given a more honest interpretation as he frequents with them. Pointless means no purpose. Status.

As a member of the community he frequents, I can say the mods barely act like mods. This is a clan that actually lost a member because the clan as a whole does not follow the rules as strictly as he did.

Conveniently ignored this one

Not going to make a point without reading his post.

Opinion. He's allowed or is this banned again?

Purpose vs. Status is the debate though, not good or bad.

Way before you by the sounds of it. I'd say he's in a much stronger position to talk than you.

But who is in more of a position to talk about the current team? Someone who's in it or someone who left it because he didn't like it long ago.

Evidenced from his own post. Agreed most pmods would not do it without the crown

Let's ask him what it means then.

Again abuse of power cannot be called purpose.

But is purposely getting an account banned a good reflection of anything?

More abuse. With the others proves the pmod system of selecting via reports wasn't working.

The same system that selected him?

See above.

Indeed.

His opinion and entitled to it.

Purpose vs. Status is the debate though, not good or bad.

His opinion...oh I forgot only pmod supporters are allowed to have those.

Purpose vs. Status is the debate though, not good or bad.

Mr hideaway decided to change his mind completely on this later on. No surpise there.

I've always said that it was purpose, my mind never changed.

Purpose is not bullying players because you 'think' you have power.

The summary given never mentioned that though, just that the pmods are the ones enforcing the rules.

Cannot accept change. No longer the plastic police but party guy. Won't accept the new role as it means his crown means less.

Or rather, will not accept that the new role is entirely new because reporting is still part of the bill, and pmods already were involved in the community.

Had a good laugh at that.

If my side is the only one allowed to have opinions, is yours the only side that is allowed to have evidence?

No reason = no purpose

But also no status

Agrees status. Admits he's a snitch at work.

Which fits with the law side of the debate. Purpose and status aren't exclusive, and it is true that some players find that there is a status to it. But if you're going to have someone enforce rules, you may as well have someone that is morally geared towards following them.

An opinion he's entitled to have.

True.

 

Actually I think she just peed on your bonfire. Fact is there are many players out there who either don't like pmods and/or believe its a status. Dismissing this proves that you ignorant to the failings of the old system of pmod, including those who just use it for a status symbol. You haven't helped your own cause in the slightest.

How many of those don't like pmods because they were punished for rulebreaking? If you set aside some people in anything that resembles law enforcement, there are bound to be people that don't like them because they don't like being punished. And if that class is given a bad image from a few of its members, that image spreads, not the good one.

 

I didn't realise there was a quota you had to make to show support.

In a debate it helps if you defend your point more than once, doesn't it?

 

Wow you change your mind more than a lingerie model changes her underwear! Not the responses you've been posting on here lmao. Hilarious! :lol:

Yet it is not entirely different than what I have been posting. Besides, you two asked for a different reason, I'm just giving it. And here you are ignoring it... :mrgreen:

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I am concerned at the continual arguements and personalised attacks stating that there is no evidence in support of this thread. Yes there are a lot of opinions, but some of those count as evidence in their own right, in a couple of instances because they are from PMods or someone who has been a Pmod.

Yet you continue to value some evidence over others.

Of course I value opinions that agree with mine! Good grief! Thats the whole point! Unless you or someone else can convince me otherwise, or provide evidence to disprove the evidence and opinions given, then I would value those as much.

I would add, that in completing this trawl of the posts, I have been gratified by the strength of support there has been from players and not just 'one or two'! I have not included repeats unless it appeared to bring more evidence to the debate. I have also kept the list as simple as possible.

How many provided more than one post or have given a reason?

Why does that matter? I think Jrhairychest pointed out that there is not a 'quota', an opinion or evidence is just that.

 

  • Est0rrath - Status
  • 00hydro - Status
  • Sees-all1 - Doesn't see the need for a crown
  • Computergee - Status
  • ThedayRSdied - Pmods are worthless
    Not the subject of the argument
  • Langer - Pmods not needed, reporting for modship is distasteful
    Nothing to do with status
  • Dark Aura - Gave an example of very poor mod behaviour
    One does not equal all. Still says nothing about status v. purpose.
  • abc1230 - Pmods are pointless
    Yet manages to be in a clan with several mods, and still does not address purpose v. status.
  • Funnisam - Status
  • Lamdan - Is a Pmod; admits 'status'
  • Moneya - Status
  • Jenove - Status
  • Sworddude198 - Doesn't like Pmods
    Doesn't address purpose v. status
  • Bluelancer - Was a Pmod; said they're not fit to be role models
    Was.
  • mmmcannibalism - Is a Pmod; status
    Disputed.
  • Cheeseater - Provides evidential video link of appalling Pmod behaviour http://www.youtube.c...h?v=j08RyRu4z38
    Doesn't address purpose v. status
  • Troacctid - Provides evidential link to Jagex post on Pmod changes and selection process http://devblog.runescape.com/c=yES6escXA0o/view_post.ws?post_id=20
  • Jrhairychest - Also provides Jagex link
  • Bluelancer - Provides evidential screenshot of inappropriate mod behaviour and states he has many more examples Page 15
    Doesn't address purpose v. status, is not a current pmod
  • Est0rrath - Provides relevant information regarding "Mod failure" on another thread Page 16
    Doesn't address purpose v. status
  • Fairness - Wants Pmod system abolished
    Doesn't address purpose v. status
  • Bauke - Indicates Pmods are better very recently compared to before
    Doesn't address purpose v. status
  • Zierro - Status
  • Erewhon2 - Provides direct quote from Jagex Page 18
  • Jrhairychest - Provides link to new selection process http://forum.runesca...,104,0,59341959
  • a_local_guy - Is a Pmod; doesn't like being asked questions or people adding him, prefers the old Pmod role
    Prefers the purpose, then.
  • Howlin0001 - Is a Pmod; equates his role with being in the Police force! That is so scary :unsure:
  • Randox - Equates the crown to power over others
    Addresses purpose, not status
  • Expl0de - Thinks Pmods are "The Law"
    Addresses purpose, not status
  • a_local_guy - Doing it for what he feels is "the greater good" and is still pmodding under the old system
    Again, purpose
  • a_local_guy - Provides evidential screenshot of Lumbridge Guide telling potential wannabe's to report those that break the rules and basically 'be nice' as if that can be monitored! (reporting being the main focus) Page 23
    But as an ingame source it is a direct quote from Jagex.
  • RayOxide - No reason for Pmods
    Doesn't address purpose v. status
  • Orioles - Status
  • Jake_corsair - Is a Pmod; agrees status, and then adds purpose, then gives a wonderful example of equating Pmod status to achieving skillcapes! Lmao
    So you laugh at a comparison of the role to status? Does that mean it's purpose?
  • PyroZerkerX - Status
    Has made just one post here and barely expressed his opinion.

 

Your responses to the list above border on the ridiculous, they're pedantic and are laughable, they present as a petulant and childish, next you'll be sticking your fingers in your ears and declaring you can't hear me. If a Pmod is seen has having no purpose, or aren't needed, or they are disliked, or the role is approached from a completely inappropriate 'power' perspective, then by default you are left with 'status'. As for laughing at the comparison to achieving a skills cape, I laughed because in an earlier post I suggested that a crown was nothing more than achieving a level '99' in reporting, and here was a Pmod saying the same thing in different words! Of course I found that funny! :thumbsup:

 

What can I say? It is all there, clear and concise and I have purposely added the links that were used. I haven't done the screenshots because it would make this post far to long, but I have noted the page that they are on in the list.

Naturally it is biased towards your point in that anyone for purpose is made to look bad, though.

Erm......thats why I picked them out! Because they supported this thread's topic, and I would add that I haven't made anyone look bad that hasn't done it to themselves....you included :shame:

Now tell me again that there is no evidence in support of this thread, or that only one or two people are in agreement!!!! :shame:

Only one or two people are repeat posters. You cannot say that so many people agree with you if they aren't here now, can you?

What a ridiculous statement.....how many times does someone have to agree, once is enough for me. I have only posted once on some threads, it certainly doesn't mean my opinion doesn't count!

 

As for the personal aspect of why someone should choose to be a Pmod, I have been asking that from the beginning, what is it about being a Pmod that gives you such gratification? Why do you need it? Especially considering the opinions and evidence above. And for my part, I wasn't keen on the whole Pmod thing, but was open to opinions, but reading the thread posts and the immediate responses to my first posts, clarified that I was right all along and since then have only strengthened my views.

Because I enjoy being helpful, I enjoy being a part of the mod community (They throw great parties), and it's very interesting to see how the system works. There's your new answer.

Thats not what I asked! I asked what was it about being a Pmod that gave you such gratification? Not what was it about giving advice: you can do that without being a Pmod, as I do, and it makes me feel good to be helpful.

As for opinions, I'd say it's pretty good to do something because I want to and not because everyone else says it's good.

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Guest jrhairychest

Seems to me you are basing your views on all mods based on the actions of a few bad eggs. Player moderators like all people come in many different personalities. I am a player moderator myself, and I do not fit any of the criteria listed in the OP.

No, I actually ask questions and I observed a lot of what was going on. I didn't formulate any conclusions by playing for 6 months. It's based on years of playing the game.

 

*Mods claim to be 'ordinary players' - Would they want the status if it gave you no crown visible to other players? No they would be unhappy because they 'want' other players to know they are mods - hence they do it for the status. Many who then achieve modship then revert back to the 'its not my problem' routine.
I for one do not go out of my way to make it know that I am a moderator.

Would you do it without the crown?

 

*Why give status to people who will gleefully report others - In my mind you get status for hard work, not at the expense of others (PVP excepted). I find this 'looking for trouble' element of it distasteful as it encourages players to snitch, rather than use common sense.
If someone is breaking important rules, such as selling accounts, advertising websites etc. do you feel there should be no repercussions?

Rules are fine and I don't break them. Pmods aren't needed to control these aspects of the game. We can all report these activities. It doesn't take a pmod to control them. This is my point.

 

*Why do they insist on giving lectures to players instead of fact? When a mod is around it is permanently littered with mod chat.
Giving lectures? I have never done this myself, in fact I usually only give my opinion on a matter when asked.

If what you say is true you are a minority. Thankfully I can place pmods on my ignore list so they don't bother me and I don't bother them. Everyone's happy.

 

 

*Why, when questioned about how they got their modship do they instantly tele or block a player? - Something to be scared of?

I have never done this, I tend to direct players to the knowledge base which they can utilize to answer most questions they have regarding moderators.

I've asked many a player. Most denied it, a few admitted it. Confirmed by Jagex and Mod Catalina's answer in the Q&A that reporting was the selection factor.

 

*Why get shirty with players like myself who will disagree with a mods knowledge, yet threaten to mute me for it because I dare to disagree. Happened on more than one occasion. I don't need to be told off like a child or spoken to as if I don't know what I'm doing.
If a moderator is threatening to mute you they are abusing their power and can even lose their moderator status for doing so.

Absolutley. My point is the sheer arrogance that many of them 'cannot be wrong' because they are used to [wagon] kissers and 'yes men' taking their word as the gospel truth.

 

I guess what it comes down to is that one cannot lump an entire group of people together and claim they are all the same. I can only hope these negative qualities you attributed to moderators are in fact the minority.

On the contrary the minority are the decent pmods. You may claim this to be my own POV, but I say that maybe you don't see it the same way because you are part of it, and so maybe blind to what goes on.

 

 

I'd prefer honesty, personally, especially relating to this.

Wouldn't we all. Unfortunately the world doesn't work that way. Jagex have been very polite on a number of occasions and if I were them I'd have done it the same way. Business acumen prevails.

 

But they also had many opportunities to change it before if it wasn't working.

Perhaps, but maybe its only in the last year where they've realised a new direction is needed and how to approach it. Surely game orientated pmods who seldom report beause they don't feel they need to is the right way to go, rather than 'rule with an iron fist' (Jagex's words)?

 

I admit to thinking differently than they do. I only think a few things are lies, but if you're posting about how they wouldn't lie I have to point them out.

Not like them being dishonest changes the game for me or anyone else, does it?

Theres a difference between lying and sparing peoples feelings on the issue by using white lies. I don't view it as dishonest, more saving the faces of the old pmod crop. If they'd have told the truth you'd get more abuse than you do now in game. Considering you views on Jagex, I don't know why you play the game.

 

Ad Busters (A clan chat, always open). The RSHC chat (and clan-thread 90-91-427-57898234). Those are two that were fairly easy to find, at least.

A couple of clan chats are evidence? How so? This does not prove any form of active community involvement. Anyone can hide away and log into a clan chat. That's not getting involved. Now, wheres your evidence?

 

You mean in addition to the actual personal attacks and baiting, right? The original point you posted here was a personal attack, not a legitimate point.

Er nope. Trying to understand if someone wants pmod status by looking at the other issues such as the psycological aspects isn't baiting or personal attacks. You evaded answering the questions. You could have just said no but you didn't. I can only presume from your reaction that there were some truths in there that you didn't like, so typically respond in "you're trolling".

 

But it is clear that a more knowledgeable player is the one that has tried everything and stuck with it, not the guy that heard what the "best" way was and used that.

Most players aren't interested in the 'best' way. They want fast ways of xp. As I said before a pmod with low skills, quest experience etc is not good for the game. They're taken much less seriously than higher level pmods. Players place their trust better in those they judge to know what they're doing.

 

My evidence is backed up. Yours isn't and thats your problem because you know you can't back it up.

How am I supposed to back up an opinion? You frequently accuse me of lying when I do.

I'm asking for evidence, not opinion. Something which you and your followers asked for. You have lied about your selection method. The evidence is there to prove it.

 

Somehow I manage to post an answer to each paragraph/line, though.

No, any evidence placed forward you disagree with, including those from Jagex and you ignore bad pmod practice and would rather blame those who post about it. By all means try to prove your points but it doesn't exactly make you look a knowledgeable and wise pmod when you skirt around points that you don't want to answer and dismiss evidence from Jagex as 'they lie!'. Almost to the point of being childish really.

 

Yet was it prevention or a cure that did the job? You originally posted that prevention is better than a cure, yet here you go back on it saying that the cure did better than prevention.

They fix things so it can be prevented from happening in the first place. I think you've got your wires crossed here.

 

You agreed with my statement that you were not enough without the crown. Read it for yourself.

Okay, which post do I read? Where? Be clearer, please.

I said the following, with your attached reply. I'd say that was admitting you weren't enough without the crown. Your own quote:

If you're not enough without it then you should really re-consider why you do it. You don't need a crown to play RS, help people, report people or even break up arguments unless you're a weak person who has to stand behind a crown to do it. That shouldn't be too hard to understand.

True, but the perks that come with it are worth taking it for.

 

I've found that if people respond better to something that they agree with. If she already had negative preconceptions about mods, would it be easier to completely flip those over, or to solidify them? Neutrality is a blank slate, bias is not.

You had opportunites to be honest with her, debate your points and make her see things your way. Instead you chose to concentrate on my posts. Not that I mind in the slightest :wink:

 

I feel that I'm doing that. I'm not going around yelling out "Look at me I'm special" and any time someone acts like it, I respond with a joke that downplays it. That isn't a status seeker, is it?

Prove you're enough in game to be without it. Trying to keep hold of the crown, while claiming you're helping the game is actually making you look more desperate to hang on to it, and thats a status seeker.

 

For some reason I doubt that would happen.

I'm a man of my word. Its on here that I won't go against that, and I'd never pull the rug from under anyones feet.

 

Answer the question, don't evade it. You're saying Mod Catalina does not know what she is talking about?

I am saying that Jagex mods have done so before. And rarely are their posts on such topics their opinions but what their company says they should post.

Still avoiding the point. Answer my question.

 

And yet as a large part of this fansite probably knows, I barely act like they think one should ingame.

Players still associate you as a pmod. Your actions are those of a pmod and you have certain responsibilites towards your own pmod community. Theres no 'get out of jail free' card in this.

I'm still waiting. I haven't ignored anything. Every point answered so get some evidence.

 

In progress. Watch This offsite thread for a while.

I had a read of it. Nothing so far and its gone a little off topic in its first page. Ironically some points about status have come up already lol. Why didn't you post here on tipit or are you after a certain clientelle to answer it?

 

The town crier reflects what Jagex wants people who play the game to think about their mods. The video showed a mod who wanted the account banned. The article and Jagex post is evidence that you "read between the lines" to get. And there are at least two clan chats in front of you higher on the page that involve mods not in it for the status.

Crier answered below. Most of the stuff I've given you is quoted word for word. Reading between the lines is about common sense of how things are applied. Considering you are so concerned about Jagex's lies I think you yourself have been doing a lot of reading between the lines too. Already answered your clan chat 'evidence' above'.

 

Yet why give blatantly wrong information to players? Especially when people did send ridiculous amounts of reports in the hopes of becoming mods. And where are they now?

Didn't you get the point of not being inundated with reports? Friends reporting friends, people going looking for trouble? You'd have created a Frankenstiens monster if they'd have been explicit about what they wanted and I'd have done exactly the same thing as Jagex.

 

I'm aware of that. Yet if there are certain things that you don't tell your customers, there are things that you do tell them, and those are the things that make you look good. Just look at any business advertising that it has "gone green".

Good so if you're aware of it, then you'll know you don't upset a portion of your client base. You also only give them the information you want them to see. Exactly the same practice Jagex does and I don't blame them.

 

What purpose would that serve?

It is a practice you've been happy to do in the past when it suited what you wanted, so if you think I'm trolling/baiting or whatever then report me for it.

 

For one, it supported what she already thought.

No you could have done a lot better and put your points across to try to change her opinion. You ignored her points initially then didn't answer very well when you did bother. If you look that only served to inflame her even more on the subject. Remember what I said about you representing your pmod community? That is a perfect example of how she's now looking at it.

 

A debate is about proving your points. And it shows that it isn't just the purpose side that hasn't been sticking around.

I've proved points but you havent liked that. I think if Jagex had posted 'our last batch of pmods were crap' you'd have said they lied about it or said it wasn't evidence. Your followers brought nothing to the debate at all. Sure they tried to tag team me out of it by trying to shout me down but it doesn't work that way. Granted some status haven't stuck around.

 

His opinion. We're allowed to have one. Remember?

Purpose vs. Status is the debate though, not good or bad.

True

 

We know players reported to gain status

As Jagex started saying now.

ahhh so now you're coming round to the idea, or is this just more Jagex lies?

 

Proving the abuse of power through status

Bad behavior is bad behavior, not status abuse.

On the contrary it is status abuse.

 

So he's actually given a more honest interpretation as he frequents with them. Pointless means no purpose. Status.

As a member of the community he frequents, I can say the mods barely act like mods. This is a clan that actually lost a member because the clan as a whole does not follow the rules as strictly as he did.

Thats his interpretation and you have your interpretation. You've also stated you don't hang out with the pmod community a few times, so how exactly are you able to form an opinion on this?

 

Conveniently ignored this one

Not going to make a point without reading his post.

Have a read.

 

Opinion. He's allowed or is this banned again?

Purpose vs. Status is the debate though, not good or bad.

Isn't it a good idea to find out WHY?

 

Way before you by the sounds of it. I'd say he's in a much stronger position to talk than you.

But who is in more of a position to talk about the current team? Someone who's in it or someone who left it because he didn't like it long ago.

He's been there and done it. In fact he's better placed than anyone on here as he's seen the changes since RSC.

 

Evidenced from his own post. Agreed most pmods would not do it without the crown

Let's ask him what it means then.

Please feel free.

 

Again abuse of power cannot be called purpose.

But is purposely getting an account banned a good reflection of anything?

Thats your own interpretation of what he was trying to do. All I see is a pmod abusing his power.

 

More abuse. With the others proves the pmod system of selecting via reports wasn't working.

The same system that selected him?

He's formed his own opinion of then and now. I think pmods were a little more honourable in those times as they were just games players and that was it.

 

His opinion and entitled to it.

Purpose vs. Status is the debate though, not good or bad.

Again, why?

 

Purpose vs. Status is the debate though, not good or bad.

Again, why?

 

I've always said that it was purpose, my mind never changed.

She was illustrating your chopping and changing your mind and wanting to hold on to the old system of reporting which we now know is obsolete.

 

The summary given never mentioned that though, just that the pmods are the ones enforcing the rules.

I think we both know that many were given this status for a reason but not for the reasons Jagex wanted to use it for.

 

Or rather, will not accept that the new role is entirely new because reporting is still part of the bill, and pmods already were involved in the community.

Another contradiction. You don't change the line from ruling the community to community focus if your pmods were already doing this anyway. You yourself admitted you were hiding away and didn't even want to get involved with the pmod community. Perhaps some were involved in some community thing they were doing but that was a tiny fraction of the whole. If what you state was already true, nothing would be changed and everything would carry on as it did before. And reporting..all you have left is a few things left to report. Jagex took care of the rest, remember?

 

If my side is the only one allowed to have opinions, is yours the only side that is allowed to have evidence?

You mean I actually have evidence and you don't?

 

 

But also no status

No purpose? Then the only thing you have left is status.

 

Which fits with the law side of the debate. Purpose and status aren't exclusive, and it is true that some players find that there is a status to it. But if you're going to have someone enforce rules, you may as well have someone that is morally geared towards following them.

For a start, its a game. Thats it. If people cannot play the game without having to resort to ratting on players on all but the most serious stuff then I question why they play. You forgive his snitching agenda as if its a good thing but in reality snitching is done to further peoples own ends in RL and in RS, and theres nothing moral in that at all. No-one likes a snitch. It just creates a lack of trust which probably explains why so many players aren't loving pmods. Take the crown element away in RS and I'll bet the reports would be so much less in all but stuff that should be reported.

 

How many of those don't like pmods because they were punished for rulebreaking? If you set aside some people in anything that resembles law enforcement, there are bound to be people that don't like them because they don't like being punished. And if that class is given a bad image from a few of its members, that image spreads, not the good one.

I'd say most people wouldn't mind being answerable for their indiscretions. I cannot comment on the crime stats on here for those who are against the pmod in general. If players don't respect you, then its a little ignorant to say its their fault. Having a crown won't make players respect you, its how you treat them. Instead, some self analysis on how the pmod population conducts itself would be more appropriate. Perhaps the bad image does not come from a 'few' members but is more widespread than you think but either you don't want to believe it, admit it or deal with it. Maybe the players selected for future pmod may change general opinion as the players selected may be more suitable and respected as being games players.

 

In a debate it helps if you defend your point more than once, doesn't it?

of course.

 

Yet it is not entirely different than what I have been posting. Besides, you two asked for a different reason, I'm just giving it. And here you are ignoring it... :mrgreen:

Chopping and changing your mind about things for the sake of points scoring just makes your case worse, not better.

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I know a lot of pmods and have never heard them do anything but complain about people bugging them. Most of them want a feature to hide the crown.

 

I see player mods as a scare tactic by Jagex. If there are people flaming/harrasing people/breaking rules in general, they will almost certainly stop at the mere sight of a silver crown in the chat box. By having some trustworthy people that they can rely on for reports and mutes etc, it saves them a lot of time.

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Of course I value opinions that agree with mine! Good grief! Thats the whole point! Unless you or someone else can convince me otherwise, or provide evidence to disprove the evidence and opinions given, then I would value those as much.

You did hear what you wanted to hear, then.

I would add, that in completing this trawl of the posts, I have been gratified by the strength of support there has been from players and not just 'one or two'! I have not included repeats unless it appeared to bring more evidence to the debate. I have also kept the list as simple as possible.Why does that matter? I think Jrhairychest pointed out that there is not a 'quota', an opinion or evidence is just that.

The difference between this and a questionnaire thread is that here you are expected to back up your answers.

 

Your responses to the list above border on the ridiculous, they're pedantic and are laughable, they present as a petulant and childish, next you'll be sticking your fingers in your ears and declaring you can't hear me. If a Pmod is seen has having no purpose, or aren't needed, or they are disliked, or the role is approached from a completely inappropriate 'power' perspective, then by default you are left with 'status'. As for laughing at the comparison to achieving a skills cape, I laughed because in an earlier post I suggested that a crown was nothing more than achieving a level '99' in reporting, and here was a Pmod saying the same thing in different words! Of course I found that funny! :thumbsup:

But I did respond. You'd probably be attacking me for sticking my fingers in my ears and declaring I can't hear you if I didn't, and I think responding is the better choice...

 

Erm......thats why I picked them out! Because they supported this thread's topic, and I would add that I haven't made anyone look bad that hasn't done it to themselves....you included :shame:

Now tell me again that there is no evidence in support of this thread, or that only one or two people are in agreement!!!! :shame:

What a ridiculous statement.....how many times does someone have to agree, once is enough for me. I have only posted once on some threads, it certainly doesn't mean my opinion doesn't count!

It's a personal system I've been using since that "worst skillcape" thread. If it's a debate, I disregard single word to single sentence posts because they are not debating, they're probably postcount farming. And if that poster doesn't return to defend their points, it shows that they aren't interested in debating at all.

Thats not what I asked! I asked what was it about being a Pmod that gave you such gratification? Not what was it about giving advice: you can do that without being a Pmod, as I do, and it makes me feel good to be helpful.

I did answer that. I like knowing how Jagex works, and I like the community from it.

 

Wouldn't we all. Unfortunately the world doesn't work that way. Jagex have been very polite on a number of occasions and if I were them I'd have done it the same way. Business acumen prevails.

That it does.

 

Perhaps, but maybe its only in the last year where they've realised a new direction is needed and how to approach it. Surely game orientated pmods who seldom report beause they don't feel they need to is the right way to go, rather than 'rule with an iron fist' (Jagex's words)?

Quote the whole thing next time. Jagex was making a point about themselves. "Rather than trying to rule these communities with an iron fist, we want to encourage them, and encourage players to join them, and well be doing that with the help of our moderators."

Meaning that instead of controlling the growth, etc, of fansites, they encourage them, and you can see evidence of this in the way that names of fansites are no longer taboo on their forums, and in the way that they provide content to them now.

 

Theres a difference between lying and sparing peoples feelings on the issue by using white lies. I don't view it as dishonest, more saving the faces of the old pmod crop. If they'd have told the truth you'd get more abuse than you do now in game. Considering you views on Jagex, I don't know why you play the game.

Why spite the game because the company does what companies do?

 

A couple of clan chats are evidence? How so? This does not prove any form of active community involvement. Anyone can hide away and log into a clan chat. That's not getting involved. Now, wheres your evidence?

Wow. You honestly did not read the forum thread or visit the clan chats. Good job.

 

Er nope. Trying to understand if someone wants pmod status by looking at the other issues such as the psycological aspects isn't baiting or personal attacks. You evaded answering the questions. You could have just said no but you didn't. I can only presume from your reaction that there were some truths in there that you didn't like, so typically respond in "you're trolling".

However, frequently noting that I did not deny your accusations is.

 

No, any evidence placed forward you disagree with, including those from Jagex and you ignore bad pmod practice and would rather blame those who post about it. By all means try to prove your points but it doesn't exactly make you look a knowledgeable and wise pmod when you skirt around points that you don't want to answer and dismiss evidence from Jagex as 'they lie!'. Almost to the point of being childish really.

I give reasons for disagreeing with evidence, though. More than "That doesn't count" or something similar. Or shall I post a long analysis of what I believe the Jagex articles are saying?

 

Most players aren't interested in the 'best' way. They want fast ways of xp. As I said before a pmod with low skills, quest experience etc is not good for the game. They're taken much less seriously than higher level pmods. Players place their trust better in those they judge to know what they're doing.

Was or is the pmod role related to game experience? Often it was related to rule experience, because that's what it was. Now it's about community face, still not levels.

 

They fix things so it can be prevented from happening in the first place. I think you've got your wires crossed here.

That's what a cure does.

 

You had opportunites to be honest with her, debate your points and make her see things your way. Instead you chose to concentrate on my posts. Not that I mind in the slightest :wink:

Seeing as I get accused of ignoring points anyway...

 

Prove you're enough in game to be without it. Trying to keep hold of the crown, while claiming you're helping the game is actually making you look more desperate to hang on to it, and thats a status seeker.

I'm trying to hold on to the role, shame that the crown is stuck to it.

 

Still avoiding the point. Answer my question.

I'm going to bring this back to just addressing the quote...

"We were getting the right P Mods, but our search "area" was very narrow. Using the old system we have chosen really great P Mods, which continue to work with us and doing a fantastic job but we were more focused on reports."

The players they got were the right kind, but their methods did not include players who did not report often, so the change reflects that. If the pmods they were getting were not the right kind, why have them continue to mod?

"With the Are you community focused thread we managed to open our horizons and give a chance to players that probably before were not getting that opportunity to become P Mods."

Now they have more ways to get the kinds of players they want with a broader system that reflects a broader role.

 

Players still associate you as a pmod. Your actions are those of a pmod and you have certain responsibilites towards your own pmod community. Theres no 'get out of jail free' card in this.

Yet strangely people in the communities I frequent have noted that even if they hate other mods they still see me as myself.

 

I'm still waiting. I haven't ignored anything. Every point answered so get some evidence.

Will do.

 

I had a read of it. Nothing so far and its gone a little off topic in its first page. Ironically some points about status have come up already lol. Why didn't you post here on tipit or are you after a certain clientelle to answer it?

Not going to censor any answers, and the community is aware that they go off topic frequently.

I posted there because I know I'm going to get well thought-out answers from it, and I considered making a post on Tip.It but I didn't know where I could post it. I'll make one though. There is another but it just has two posts, and I'd like to get more on it.

 

Crier answered below. Most of the stuff I've given you is quoted word for word. Reading between the lines is about common sense of how things are applied. Considering you are so concerned about Jagex's lies I think you yourself have been doing a lot of reading between the lines too. Already answered your clan chat 'evidence' above'.

But as we can see with the "iron fist" example, you aren't immune to misquoting things. The evidence I try to give is the actual post, including off-topic points and points that don't necessarily support mine.

 

Didn't you get the point of not being inundated with reports? Friends reporting friends, people going looking for trouble? You'd have created a Frankenstiens monster if they'd have been explicit about what they wanted and I'd have done exactly the same thing as Jagex.

Problem is, they still did have people reporting friends and looking for trouble. They also have players that don't report at all and who would turn down the crown if offered.

 

No you could have done a lot better and put your points across to try to change her opinion. You ignored her points initially then didn't answer very well when you did bother. If you look that only served to inflame her even more on the subject. Remember what I said about you representing your pmod community? That is a perfect example of how she's now looking at it.

But should I judge the entire non-mod community based on your posts? If I represent all pmods it makes sense that you who has such a strong and open opinion of mods can represent non-mods. And I highly doubt that all players have the same ideals as you, just as there are probably very few mods that have the same ideals as me.

 

I've proved points but you havent liked that. I think if Jagex had posted 'our last batch of pmods were crap' you'd have said they lied about it or said it wasn't evidence. Your followers brought nothing to the debate at all. Sure they tried to tag team me out of it by trying to shout me down but it doesn't work that way. Granted some status haven't stuck around.

Wait, tag-team? Since I'm almost the last one defending pmods and you and Erewhon2 are both against me...

And why "followers?"

 

ahhh so now you're coming round to the idea, or is this just more Jagex lies?

Nobody has posted anything of what they said before except for what they say they said. And I will continue to defend that they never said that reporting was not their focus then, and you agree that if they did then they'd have status seekers reporting left and right.

So in a way you and I already agreed. Because yes, they have their public image, and as a result it makes sense when that doesn't match up with what they are actually saying.

 

On the contrary it is status abuse.

Status abuse is using your status for personal gain. An older version of the rules actually had a section for it, citing people claiming to be Jagex employees to scam others.

Bad behavior in general, like talking back to someone, is just bad behavior. You only call it status abuse because the player has the status in question.

 

Thats his interpretation and you have your interpretation. You've also stated you don't hang out with the pmod community a few times, so how exactly are you able to form an opinion on this?

Because since saying that I've actually started doing so again. Funny, I could have sworn I mentioned that.

 

He's been there and done it. In fact he's better placed than anyone on here as he's seen the changes since RSC.

Yet, the issue in question is what is happening now, not then.

And if you don't mind, can you explain how something like behavior can change so dramatically in a few years?

 

Isn't it a good idea to find out WHY?

I'd love to but chances are the poster in question isn't one that stuck around.

 

Thats your own interpretation of what he was trying to do. All I see is a pmod abusing his power.

No, actually, it's in the video itself. Not sure if it was in the summary or as a subtitle but he did mention it as plainly as possible.

 

He's formed his own opinion of then and now. I think pmods were a little more honourable in those times as they were just games players and that was it.

But what could have caused the change if they were still selected based on reports then? Did a different brand of player use the report system, or was the community as a whole better? If the latter, does that mean the "snitches" then were somehow more honorable than they were in say, 2007?

 

Again, why?

You're the one that made the debate to be purpose or status, can you tell me why?

 

She was illustrating your chopping and changing your mind and wanting to hold on to the old system of reporting which we now know is obsolete.

Y'know, I changed it because I kept getting flak for sticking to a different one.

 

I think we both know that many were given this status for a reason but not for the reasons Jagex wanted to use it for.

Then why did they keep it that way for so long? Surely they weren't blind to it for almost 5 years or so? And that still leaves the question of if it was different in the earlier days.

 

Another contradiction. You don't change the line from ruling the community to community focus if your pmods were already doing this anyway. You yourself admitted you were hiding away and didn't even want to get involved with the pmod community. Perhaps some were involved in some community thing they were doing but that was a tiny fraction of the whole. If what you state was already true, nothing would be changed and everything would carry on as it did before. And reporting..all you have left is a few things left to report. Jagex took care of the rest, remember?

Pmods were the one with the community focus, Jagex was not. The article addresses how they changed their focus, and as a result how they can use pmods to further that. There were always pmods in these communities, but it is only recently that Jagex acknowledges the communities themselves.

 

You mean I actually have evidence and you don't?

My point was mostly sarcasm. It may be the lowest form of wit but it's my personal favorite.

 

No purpose? Then the only thing you have left is status.

Or a third option.

 

For a start, its a game. Thats it. If people cannot play the game without having to resort to ratting on players on all but the most serious stuff then I question why they play. You forgive his snitching agenda as if its a good thing but in reality snitching is done to further peoples own ends in RL and in RS, and theres nothing moral in that at all. No-one likes a snitch. It just creates a lack of trust which probably explains why so many players aren't loving pmods. Take the crown element away in RS and I'll bet the reports would be so much less in all but stuff that should be reported.

And yet what if a player is modded because they just reported the "most serious stuff"? Jagex never defined if they looked for quality or quantity in their selection process. If they were looking for the best reporters it would explain how people were modded by only sending a few reports. If they were looking for quantity I still have to ask how the status seekers that hunt for people to report are not mods.

 

I'd say most people wouldn't mind being answerable for their indiscretions. I cannot comment on the crime stats on here for those who are against the pmod in general. If players don't respect you, then its a little ignorant to say its their fault. Having a crown won't make players respect you, its how you treat them. Instead, some self analysis on how the pmod population conducts itself would be more appropriate. Perhaps the bad image does not come from a 'few' members but is more widespread than you think but either you don't want to believe it, admit it or deal with it. Maybe the players selected for future pmod may change general opinion as the players selected may be more suitable and respected as being games players.

The thing is, if a player instantly decides that he doesn't like me when I say "hi" to a friend, that is his fault. Same as if a player decides to be disrespectful based on just seeing the crown. I respect players based on their actions and behavior, not based on some crown next to the name.

And since they were so secretive about the modding process before it is only natural that rumors spread. Remember, there are also players that think that mods get paid and can change their levels, and Jagex certainly didn't help by giving a couple of paragraphs describing mods in a fairly well-hidden portion of their guide: Let's be honest, Jagex was very secretive until recently, and that was also their position on pmods.

 

Chopping and changing your mind about things for the sake of points scoring just makes your case worse, not better.

But the circular debating was getting tedious.

 

I put these two together for a reason:

Good so if you're aware of it, then you'll know you don't upset a portion of your client base. You also only give them the information you want them to see. Exactly the same practice Jagex does and I don't blame them.

 

I'm asking for evidence, not opinion. Something which you and your followers asked for. You have lied about your selection method. The evidence is there to prove it.

We acknowledge that Jagex gives information that their clients want to see. We also acknowledge that their pmods are also clients. This means that they also keep things from their pmods. Even among us only a fraction of their criteris for selecting mods was shown, so perhaps they just never told us the truth about it until that article.

So really, am I purposefully lying, or misguided?

These are getting longer and longer...

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I enjoy being a part of the mod community (They throw great parties), and it's very interesting to see how the system works.

Ok if I get this right.....your personal 'gratification' for being a Pmod is being part of the said community....uh huh, so its interesting that you said this earlier on in the thread.

 

I'm as distant from the rest of the mod community as I can be while still being a part of it. That doesn't mean I can't observe a contradiction outside of said community.

This is known as being 'found out', you are blatantly changing what you say to suit the argument you are making at the time.

 

Your quote below raises the issue that even you admit most players hate Pmods, this should make it abundantly clear that there was something fundamentally wrong with the system, and also raises the issue again of why anyone would want the role unless it was for perceived status. (I think we can safely disregard the reason you gave, for being part of the Pmod community). :---)

 

Here's a reason: This fits better. Most players hate mods, so you're actually in a majority. A small portion likes them because they think they have more power than they do. Another portion will friend list one for bragging rights, that may blend a bit with the previous group. An even smaller portion likes the mods because they're parts of the community, but even they may just like the ones that they know, because they know them.

 

Oh here we go again.....just in case you missed it earlier.....your not part of the Pmod community nor do you represent them in any way. Ok got that, but you will be seen by readers of this thread (and there is a lot of them) as an example of Pmod status and behaviour....is that worrying you yet?

 

I'm not posting as a representative on the pmod community. I'm posting as A Local Guy. My opinions have nothing to do with them, they're mine.

 

The new role for Pmods is seen by many as a positive way forward, empowering and improving the relationships and roles, yet for you.....

 

You do have a good point about the new role but I'm used to the old one.

 

As for that whole issue around reporting that you love to deny so much, although how reliable your opinion and statements are is now clearly under question.....

 

The only difference between a mod and any other player is the mute option, which is a part of the report system.

 

And you prefer that old system! Even though Jagex have clearly stated the need to change the way the Pmod system and role functions :shame:

 

I still pmod with the old system because there is still a place for it.

 

And finally....

 

Recognition for a good deed is nice, even Jrhairychest admits that (Just a simple 'ty' is fine.), and if the crown is recognition for it then so be it.

 

A simple "ty" is not enough for you as it is Jrhairychest or myself.....you want the crown as recognition

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Ok if I get this right.....your personal 'gratification' for being a Pmod is being part of the said community....uh huh, so its interesting that you said this earlier on in the thread.

...

This is known as being 'found out', you are blatantly changing what you say to suit the argument you are making at the time.

And yet that quote is from three months ago. During which time it is very possible for me to get back into the community at least a little bit. All it takes is logging in and seeing what's going on.

 

Your quote below raises the issue that even you admit most players hate Pmods, this should make it abundantly clear that there was something fundamentally wrong with the system, and also raises the issue again of why anyone would want the role unless it was for perceived status. (I think we can safely disregard the reason you gave, for being part of the Pmod community). :---)

Now, if most players hate it, what good would the status be? If players hate me for being a mod, then why would I be doing it for the status?

 

Oh here we go again.....just in case you missed it earlier.....your not part of the Pmod community nor do you represent them in any way. Ok got that, but you will be seen by readers of this thread (and there is a lot of them) as an example of Pmod status and behaviour....is that worrying you yet?

By arguing that I'm not in it for the status, I'm proving that I am?

I do not represent the pmod community, but I am defending them as a part of them. And I'm not sure how defending or their purpose them shows how I'm in it for the status.

 

The new role for Pmods is seen by many as a positive way forward, empowering and improving the relationships and roles, yet for you.....

Because at that time they had hardly done anything relating to their new role. Remember, that quote was from nearly three months ago, and a lot can change in three months.

 

As for that whole issue around reporting that you love to deny so much, although how reliable your opinion and statements are is now clearly under question.....

That is a fact though. Muting is a part of the report feature. I merely denied that it was the only criteria they used.

 

And you prefer that old system! Even though Jagex have clearly stated the need to change the way the Pmod system and role functions :shame:

Once again, as of three months ago. Before I had seen anything new for pmods to do. Three months ago is not now.

 

And finally....

 

A simple "ty" is not enough for you as it is Jrhairychest or myself.....you want the crown as recognition

Now, why would I want a crown as recognition if a majority of people hates it? That simply doesn't make sense.

Y'know, you guys jump on me for not replying to recent posts...

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