PMods - Purpose or Status?

[Guest]

Well said. I have made points in this debate that old system pmods often try to justify themselves by stating they were combating these types of things. In the end Jagex did it themselves on quite a huge scale by letting their software programs do the work instead.

 

 

 

This could be another reason for changes in the pmod system in that theres very little for them to do. Devil makes work for idle thumbs. The community involvement gives them more of a focal point. Instead of trying to bully the community, they are now being told to help it. For me, thats an excellent thing to do. :thumbup:

[Erewhon2]

Did you not get the meaning? They were surprised that they were CONSIDERED to become a PMod as they had never/hardly touched the Report Abuse button in their RuneScape lives. And who says 'surprise' is a negative feeling? Does it have any relation with their decision on becoming a PMod?

 

 

This is what I am talking about regarding people not reading others posts, please note my post from page 22 below, this explains my responses to you.

 

Lets see if we can narrow this down, some interesting posts and some strong feelings. As you will have gathered I strongly feel that being a pmod is about status, whether in the old 'reporting' system or the new 'role model' system.

 

 

 

So lets take out the 'reporting' bit and the new criteria, take out all the tantrums and tears.

 

 

 

I would still challenge you....why do you want to be a pmod? To help people? This is a game! Anyone can help others, its not like going to see a social worker and you need an appointment to see the specialist, and there are good fan sites including this one as well as an excellent manual on the RS site itself.

 

 

 

So I ask again.....why do you want to be a pmod? :shame:

 

 

 

Earning a pmod crown or even wanting to be a pmod is all about status. My one concession is that the new role will at least provide some service however unnecessary it may be.

 

It wasn't the only criteria though. You could become a PMod without reporting ever.

 

This does not fit with Jagex's standing on the matter.....

focussing mainly on reporting things to us. By Mod Hohbein 24-Jul-2009

 

So far, even you haven't provided evidence for this dubious statement.

 

There is evidence from a number of people or examples, but the key part is obviously from the business itself, which is why it keeps getting repeated. Even you said it was evidence...

NO evidence that this was actually taking place much before the all-important Developer Blog.

 

and of course once that blog took place, as you say...the evidence was now there, instead of relying on experiential evidence and examples.

 

can safely say a LARGE number of players don't know how to report certain people for their actions. And to report them under which rule.

 

Anyone can ask and I do think this smacks of a patronising attitude (see my quoted post above), after all...how hard can it be? It's a big red button at the bottom! lol.....

 

 

 

PMods just helped in the "Feedback" phase. The programming and coding was all Jagex's brainchild.

 

Yes I agree, this supports my post regarding the likelihood that pmods only had an insignificant role in the removal of bots and RWT.

 

Well this is why I was probably ignoring your posts...Honestly

 

Ignoring posts that you don't wish to respond to, is not usually how a debate works, so I have included it in the top of this post.

I thought you people already knew the pros? Seeing that you have spent 25+ pages telling us why PMods shouldn't get the advantages they get?

 

 

Not one person has mentioned any advantages! I have no idea where this comes from????? The point of this thread is that it is all about purpose or status, I personally do not see being a pmod as having any advantages at all! Thats why I don't understand why someone would want to do it...other than for the perceived status.

[fenrir321]

fenrir321....I have to say I am disappointed with your post as the majority of it focuses on the rules and regulations of how you would like someone to debate with you. If people are rude or completely missing the point is one thing, but to spend most of the post setting out guidelines so someone is 'worthy' to debate with you is not comfortable or appropriate. So I am only picking up those elements that are relevant.

 

I would be very grateful to see what Jagex has to say on the matter

 

Please see below:

 

http://devblog.runescape.com/view_post. ... =20&page=1

 

 

 

I would also suggest you stop equating RS with RL, it isn't and never will be RL, it is a virtual world that is run by Jagex as a business and they play the role of 'The Almighty' here. I kept my last post very simple and to the point, yet both you and a_local_guy have failed to respond to the simple question. Please don't give me this patronising 'to help people' or:

for what I feel is the greater good

 

This is a game!!! As I said in my post which you have both ignored, anyone can help and I have always offered my help freely to those that asked. Why does it have to be a pmod? So therefore it is irrelevant whether you abuse the power or not, it is still about and purely for status.

 

I'm not arrogant enough to think that people need to kiss my feet while they give a response.

 

I'm a grammar nazi, so that might carry over into many things I do, but I'm pretty lax on specific things.

 

 

 

As for giving guidelines, I asked for some clarification so I can respond accurately to statements that seem confusing to me. Is that wrong?

 

 

 

to the simple question

 

Which is? I'm assuming it's the topic: "Is the pmod crown for status or not?" which we have both addressed.

 

As for the virtual world, we are interacting with real people in real time in a virtual world. If the greater good did not matter, then all hell would break loose because the constraints on one's morals would be non-existent. This may be a game, but there are real people playing it.

 

 

 

I have a perfect real life example on why people want to be a pmod even though you can help people as a normal player:

 

Does a group need a leader? I would imagine so. Without some central figure that has authority, very little can get done. A day in leadership camp taught me that the hard way. Pmods are leaders. You cannot say that a person who is not a recognized leader has as much power as one who is. Jagex is an intangible being in context since they are more or less transcendent and not immanent like pmods. Therefore, Jagex is really not a personal, central figure in the gaming experience.

 

 

 

I would love to be a pmod simply for the reason to be a leader and not have to yell out in the cwars lobby "STOP SPAMMING EXCESSIVELY!" So I can read my friend's chat right next to me with being called a wannabe mod.

[Erewhon2]

As for the virtual world, we are interacting with real people in real time in a virtual world. If the greater good did not matter, then all hell would break loose because the constraints on one's morals would be non-existent. This may be a game, but there are real people playing it.

 

Unfortunately this is true, due to the 'anonymous' nature of the game, many people's morals and boundaries do slip, and for some it is an outlet for rudeness and insulting behaviour. However the game is set up to deal with this, using the different 'chat' mechanisms and the ignore option as well as using different worlds to suit yourself. Jagex itself is the overall authority and lays down quite comprehensive guidelines for acceptable game play and if someone is breaking those rules, any player can report them.

 

 

 

I have a perfect real life example on why people want to be a pmod even though you can help people as a normal player:

 

Does a group need a leader? I would imagine so. Without some central figure that has authority, very little can get done. A day in leadership camp taught me that the hard way. Pmods are leaders. You cannot say that a person who is not a recognized leader has as much power as one who is. Jagex is an intangible being in context since they are more or less transcendent and not immanent like pmods. Therefore, Jagex is really not a personal, central figure in the gaming experience.

 

 

 

I would love to be a pmod simply for the reason to be a leader and not have to yell out in the cwars lobby "STOP SPAMMING EXCESSIVELY!" So I can read my friend's chat right next to me with being called a wannabe mod.

 

 

 

I would say that yes many people do need a leader in real life and this is reflected in rs, however that is what the clan set up achieves, for those that wish to 'belong' to a group and have leaders, deputies, whatever. That way it is kept within its own social circle without impacting on others who do not want 'leadership'.

 

 

 

Personally I am quite happy to put those who spam on my 'ignore' list and I have done so on a number of occasions. The new model of Pmods has much more going for it than the old style and I can cope with them having a role (however unnecessary I feel it is). The old style Pmod, was most definitely not a leader, (this is a generalisation, there may have been one or two, but I have never seen nor heard of them). I have been known to actually leave the vicinity if a Pmod has shown up rather than be around all that revolting 'fawning' and then seeing those Pmods gathering their groupies around them like a comfort blanket and presenting an arrogance and superior attitude thats quite galls.

[Sir_Kurity]

The game was fine before pmods...

[Erewhon2]

The game was fine before pmods...

 

LOL!!! The master of the 'one liner'......absolutely! :thumbup:

 

Do we know why they were actually introduced? :-s

[Alg]

The game was fine before pmods...

 

Nostalgia just isn't what it used to be... :cry:

[Orioles8]

Until the PMods start going after the most obvious offenders such as W2 GE spambots and merchanting clan leaders, I think status is the only answer one can seriously give to this topic.

 

 

 

If PMods are looking to give purpose back to their ego-inflating crowns they can do the following:

 

1. Go to world 2 Grand Exchange and mute all the spambots using ILLEGAL autotypers to advertice merch cc's.

 

2. Enter the merch cc's and mute all those who are actively encouraging price manipulation, somehting which Jagex has said is against it's rules.

[Alg]

Unfortunately the official Jagex policy is that there is nothing wrong with merchant clans but you should be careful when dealing with them [1]

 

 

 

 

# We don't see anything wrong with merchanting per se. However, we do want to minimise the risk of our players losing their money because they don't understand the risks that come with trying to 'play the market'.

 

This means that mutes would be removed because they technically aren't doing anything wrong (Despite the fact that they blatantly are :evil: ) and so at worst it would just inconvenience the clan members for less than two days. Furthermore the mod in question would be demodded for power abuse. So what we have is clans being slightly inconvenienced and the mods that try to do something about them punished. While I'm sure some users here would challence mods to prove that they aren't in it for the status, they would be losing their modship for no reason as the clans would just be slowed down for under two days.

 

Otherwise I would love to do that. I will without a second thought once doing so can actually do reasonable damage to the clans.

[Guest]

So you would love to go round reporting/muting again local_guy? Why, when Jagex have mentioned this:

 

Mod Andrew on 3rd Sept.

 

The attempts to price manipulate on the Grand Exchange are annoying, but not a massive concern in the grand scheme of things, as they are fairly easy to spot heuristically and we already have updates in the works to make it so this sort of thing doesnt work (the price just wont change).

 

Its not a massive concern and have updates in the works to simply stop it. A much simpler solution than going round trying to ban everyone. This will stop without you.

 

 

 

Given any more thought to my proposal yet or you going to prove that your status is more important?

[Alg]

I'm sorry, I don't like people getting away with scamming. Such a shame, isn't it?

 

It isn't a massive concern they have updates in the works them. That really helps the players getting scammed and cheated now does it?

 

When an item is being manipulated, it either becomes unbuyable or unsellable and most of the players manipulating it are going to get scammed in the end. That *is* a massive concern. Yes, it would be great to have the problem solved without mods, but what are we supposed to do until them? Let the clan leaders scam without raising an eyebrow and just ignore the unbuyable items?

 

And I fail to see what your proposal would prove. I demod myself and talk to you to to prove I'm not in it for the status? It shows that your thinkng is that it is impossible to be a mod and not be in it for the status, and that isn't good.

[Guest]

I'm sorry, I don't like people getting away with scamming. Such a shame, isn't it?

 

If it was that simple they'd all be banned. Thats why Jagex don't take your line of thought on this. Proving solicitation in this is impossible as its too grey an area. I would have thought that was more common sense, not just shout 'scammers!!'.

 

 

 

 

It isn't a massive concern they have updates in the works them. That really helps the players getting scammed and cheated now does it?

 

The only ones who really lose out are those that jump on board i.e. pyramid selling. They describe it as a players own risk, not a scam. Again, not clear cut. If players take this risk and get burned, its their own problem.

 

 

 

 

When an item is being manipulated, it either becomes unbuyable or unsellable and most of the players manipulating it are going to get scammed in the end. That *is* a massive concern. Yes, it would be great to have the problem solved without mods, but what are we supposed to do until them? Let the clan leaders scam without raising an eyebrow and just ignore the unbuyable items?

 

Then talk to mod Andrew as he doesn't view it as a concern. A system to stop it happening in the first place is much better than trying to close the stable once the horse has bolted.

 

 

 

And I fail to see what your proposal would prove. I demod myself and talk to you to to prove I'm not in it for the status? It shows that your thinkng is that it is impossible to be a mod and not be in it for the status, and that isn't good.

 

 

 

It would show that you aren't in it for the status as you have always claimed. And that is good.

[Alg]

I'm sorry, I don't like people getting away with scamming. Such a shame, isn't it?

 

If it was that simple they'd all be banned. Thats why Jagex don't take your line of thought on this. Proving solicitation in this is impossible as its too grey an area. I would have thought that was more common sense, not just shout 'scammers!!'.

 

Common sense says that if it is too good to be true, it probably is. Something like these clans which advertise that you *will* make millions if you invest with them sounds a bit suspect, doesn't it? Especially since the items become unsellable and crash before you can make said millions and the clan leaders kick anyone that exposes the scam. Likewise they are always recruiting a new bottom to the pyramid that keeps collapsing.

 

 

 

 

It isn't a massive concern they have updates in the works them. That really helps the players getting scammed and cheated now does it?

 

The only ones who really lose out are those that jump on board i.e. pyramid selling. They describe it as a players own risk, not a scam. Again, not clear cut. If players take this risk and get burned, its their own problem.

 

That's exactly what was said about scamming before the trade limits. It doesn't justify anything.

 

 

 

 

When an item is being manipulated, it either becomes unbuyable or unsellable and most of the players manipulating it are going to get scammed in the end. That *is* a massive concern. Yes, it would be great to have the problem solved without mods, but what are we supposed to do until them? Let the clan leaders scam without raising an eyebrow and just ignore the unbuyable items?

 

Then talk to mod Andrew as he doesn't view it as a concern. A system to stop it happening in the first place is much better than trying to close the stable once the horse has bolted.

 

This is not a system to stop it from happening. It's been happening for months.

 

 

 

And I fail to see what your proposal would prove. I demod myself and talk to you to to prove I'm not in it for the status? It shows that your thinkng is that it is impossible to be a mod and not be in it for the status, and that isn't good.

 

 

 

It would show that you aren't in it for the status as you have always claimed. And that is good.

 

And yet it does nothing to show that I am in it for the purpose. Which I suppose is alright with you because you don't see a purpose to it to begin with.

[Orioles8]

Unfortunately the official Jagex policy is that there is nothing wrong with merchant clans but you should be careful when dealing with them [1]

 

 

 

 

# We don't see anything wrong with merchanting per se. However, we do want to minimise the risk of our players losing their money because they don't understand the risks that come with trying to 'play the market'.

 

This means that mutes would be removed because they technically aren't doing anything wrong (Despite the fact that they blatantly are :evil: ) and so at worst it would just inconvenience the clan members for less than two days. Furthermore the mod in question would be demodded for power abuse. So what we have is clans being slightly inconvenienced and the mods that try to do something about them punished. While I'm sure some users here would challence mods to prove that they aren't in it for the status, they would be losing their modship for no reason as the clans would just be slowed down for under two days.

 

Otherwise I would love to do that. I will without a second thought once doing so can actually do reasonable damage to the clans.

 

 

 

While I appreciate your attempt to cite your sources, you should also read them:

 

 

 

What is not allowed on the forums:

 

 

 

 

 

Asking players to "advertise" a clan chat channel in-game for any period of time. This leads to the use of autotypers which are against the Rules of Conduct and cause disruption for other players.

 

 

 

These autoypers are in violation of jagex policy, as are the clan leaders who asked them to advertise. They are certainly muteable, and hopefully bannable.

[Alg]

The clan leaders, however, just ask them to advertise. It is up to a player to use an autotyper or not. And knowing Jagex they would have a hard time telling the difference between a fast typist and an autotyper in the evidence that is given in a report.

[Orioles8]

A Local Guy, it says right there in Mod Jon H's post on the forums that asking them to advertise is also not welcome (i.e. illegal). Even if the clan leader asks them to advertise without autotypers, making the request was illegal.

[Alg]

And yet they can get away with it because very few people go to that part of the forum. It's a rule that nobody knows and is not enforced.

[Orioles8]

And yet they can get away with it because very few people go to that part of the forum. It's a rule that nobody knows and is not enforced.

 

 

 

Which brings us back to PMods as using their title purely for status instead of enforcing the rules.

[Alg]

Which is saying that if one thing is untrue the opposite must be.

 

I for one have heard Jagex say that it is both against the rules and not against the rules. That does not mean I am in it for the status, it means that I'm not sure if it is against the rules or not because Jagex has not given an answer.

[Orioles8]

Which is saying that if one thing is untrue the opposite must be.

 

I for one have heard Jagex say that it is both against the rules and not against the rules. That does not mean I am in it for the status, it means that I'm not sure if it is against the rules or not because Jagex has not given an answer.

 

 

 

The very fact that one is unwilling to risk his moderator status to report rulebreakers is evidence that it should never have been given in the first place, and that said person is more interested in maintaining his status symbol crown than in cleaning up the game.

[fenrir321]

Which is saying that if one thing is untrue the opposite must be.

 

I for one have heard Jagex say that it is both against the rules and not against the rules. That does not mean I am in it for the status, it means that I'm not sure if it is against the rules or not because Jagex has not given an answer.

 

 

 

The very fact that one is unwilling to risk his moderator status to report rulebreakers is evidence that it should never have been given in the first place, and that said person is more interested in maintaining his status symbol crown than in cleaning up the game.

 

If a cop pulls you over for not yielding at the sign but he then realizes that he was in the wrong after he wrote the ticket, the ticket has to go through a certain system that makes the receiver have to appeal it before court.

 

 

 

Now, if that cop doesn't pull someone over for a yield again so he's not wrong that next time (since there's obvious repercussion), is he in the wrong?

[Alg]

Which is saying that if one thing is untrue the opposite must be.

 

I for one have heard Jagex say that it is both against the rules and not against the rules. That does not mean I am in it for the status, it means that I'm not sure if it is against the rules or not because Jagex has not given an answer.

 

 

 

The very fact that one is unwilling to risk his moderator status to report rulebreakers is evidence that it should never have been given in the first place, and that said person is more interested in maintaining his status symbol crown than in cleaning up the game.

 

It's Jagex that decides what is against the rules, and they also enforce them. What good would reporting/muting do if it's lifted the next day? :?

[Orioles8]

Which is saying that if one thing is untrue the opposite must be.

 

I for one have heard Jagex say that it is both against the rules and not against the rules. That does not mean I am in it for the status, it means that I'm not sure if it is against the rules or not because Jagex has not given an answer.

 

 

 

The very fact that one is unwilling to risk his moderator status to report rulebreakers is evidence that it should never have been given in the first place, and that said person is more interested in maintaining his status symbol crown than in cleaning up the game.

 

It's Jagex that decides what is against the rules, and they also enforce them. What good would reporting/muting do if it's lifted the next day? :?

 

 

 

In the short term, it would prevent them from luring more people into their scam. In the long term, you're starting with the assumption that these mutes will be lifted. I am of the opinion that they would not, as autotalking and requesting advertisement of cc's is illegal.

[Erewhon2]

If a cop pulls you over for not yielding at the sign but he then realizes that he was in the wrong after he wrote the ticket, the ticket has to go through a certain system that makes the receiver have to appeal it before court.

 

 

 

Now, if that cop doesn't pull someone over for a yield again so he's not wrong that next time (since there's obvious repercussion), is he in the wrong?

 

I really don't understand this metaphor, if the rules are broken it should be dealt with or are you saying it shouldn't? Or are you saying something isn't against the rules, but it appears it is? :-s

[Guest]

 

Common sense says that if it is too good to be true, it probably is. Something like these clans which advertise that you *will* make millions if you invest with them sounds a bit suspect, doesn't it? Especially since the items become unsellable and crash before you can make said millions and the clan leaders kick anyone that exposes the scam. Likewise they are always recruiting a new bottom to the pyramid that keeps collapsing.

 

Of course its suspect, so more the fool players for falling for it for their own personal greed. Trouble is you still have problems proving solicitation. Jagex knows it so its a bit of a duff argument you're making.

 

 

 

 

That's exactly what was said about scamming before the trade limits. It doesn't justify anything.

 

The trade limits helped in sorting out scammers, correct? Jagex warn of the risk of being involved in price manipulation. Again I point to player greed and how it works against them so if they take that risk then its their problem. They'll update it and the issue will at least be minimal. So relax, they are sorting it.

 

 

 

This is not a system to stop it from happening. It's been happening for months.

 

How can this not stop it? All it takes is for the update to be done and it should stop. Again, I point out Jagex say its not a concern. You disagree but again I don't see you going to Jagex and pointing this out. I know you're very afraid to rock the boat.

 

 

 

Yes, it has been going on for months but they say they are going to stop it. They will do this by preventing the rises. I'd say thats a much more viable solution than pmods going around trying to cure a problem thats already there. Prevention is much better than cure. If you disagree with a good solution like that, which is common sense, then I suspect your motives for going against it are 'ban ban ban'.

 

 

 

 

And yet it does nothing to show that I am in it for the purpose. Which I suppose is alright with you because you don't see a purpose to it to begin with.

 

 

 

You havent really worked out yet that as the game evolves your use has actually become less and less. I've said before most of the problems have been fixed by Jagex in their programming and updates. They seem to be looking at preventing problems rather than giving players opportunity to report others. I have no doubts they will pull the plug on price manipulation too (correctly stated not against rules in game). I think a game that prevents most of the problems by itself is a much better solution than players with itchy fingers on the report button.

 

 

 

You've said you're not bothered about the status right? You're not bothered about your silver crown? Prove it then. I've reiterated several times you can still help out players, report and all the things you claim you do. All you will lose is a crown and the mute ability. Your previous points about being involved with the Pmod community are, frankly, crap as you state you don't involve yourself with them.

 

So lets see you prove once and for all that you're not in it for status, as you claim not to be. Whats up, something to lose have we?