PMods - Purpose or Status?

[Lord_Shalaj]

Hmm, I see you feel my reasons for the insults aren't justified. Alright, I'll make a polite little post, hoping you answer all points (which I know you won't) and actually understand where you are going wrong.

 

 

 

I answered that one completely and in detail.

 

 

 

Oh yes, very experienced. Doesn't change the fact that he is one player, does it? So no matter how many 99s he has got, no matter how many million coins he has got, no matter how many posts he has got - He is STILL ONE PERSON.

 

 

 

And lets see, who bases all their claims after one person's thoughts? I think you know that isn't a smart thing to do? Saying that "Aquanites rock" because ONE person likes them? Saying that "Runecrafting is super fast experience" because ONE person says so? So that's what you are failing to grasp - One person's thoughts and opinions will not change the opinions of thousands about thousand other players.

 

 

 

None of them spoke, suggested, hinted or even said community moderation might be a good idea.. They didnt have a clue.

 

 

 

I see, so if noone tells what is in his mind, most chances are there that they don't have anything in their mind. =D>

 

 

 

Are you sure? I seem to be doing just fine. The points are all answered in the posts. Read on a little further.

 

 

 

Yes, I'm quite sure. I still haven't gotten -

 

 

 

1) Why you base entire threads on person's thoughts.

 

2) Why you ACTUALLY hold a grudge against ALL PMods.

 

3) Where on earth is your evidence for Macroing?

 

 

 

In your haste to post you havent considered this point at all. Who is the more dumb? Me or the one who didnt read the statement properly? Read it again very carefully this time. I let this go the first time but seeing as youre going for the dumb insults lets see if you answer the point.

 

 

 

I'm sorry? Do you actually mean to say a survey or consensus is complete with the opinions of one person? If you agree with this, I want to stop this argument right now... to prevent me from saying my heart's content. :|

 

 

 

 

 

So you agree with the points. So why would Jagex do it? Answer that point. Incidentally a_local_guy (current pmod) is posting that things like this arent actually going on and that his guidance is much different. So you agree but a_local_guy disagrees. Who is right? He claims this:

 

 

 

You assume that the posts on the subject are the absolute truth. I do not. Whether they changed parts of the method is unimportant when compared to the parts they advertise as being changed.

 

 

 

I see nothing wrong with this quote. Actually, the meaning is quite simple and clear.

 

 

 

OMG :wall:

 

Weren't we talking about MACROING? Where did this pop in? Provide your evidence for your earlier quote on Macroing or just keep quiet and stop spewing trash.

 

 

 

I believe you posted this:

 

don't say all PMods are great. And wasn't this quote to prove that PMods played a part in reducing Macroing? So where did this 'PMods are great stuff' pop in? Don't have any actual evidence (didn't believe you had anyway) about that quote of yours? I provided my evidence of how they played a part. Where's yours?

 

So I answered it.

 

 

 

Ok, you answered. Brilliant. Now provide the proof for Macroing. Or find another excuse.

 

 

 

Yes, you do. Instead of hastily typing out things without thinking about what youre really saying, take the time to consider your points more. I know youre trying to be clever about things instead of debating the more serious points and only answering what you think you can answer. Youd look less of a fool if you halted with the dumb, blind and other comments and thought about what youre doing.

 

 

 

You know, you're right, I don't have to give this much thought. There is nothing debate-worthy to me here. The counter-arguments have no base, and the strong points are being ignored. I've been replied with OT stuff for particular points. I consider all my posts and write by the way, in case you were having doubts. And I also have no doubt who is ending up looking like a fool, but hey I'm keeping it polite at the moment, hoping that you see your flaws in the 'argument'.

 

 

 

Thanks..

 

Lord Shalaj

[Zierro]

Same reason why people wear Hollister or get 5000 friends on Myspace. It's a status. There are some who do take the time to mute offensive players that just won't shut up, but at the same time there are power-hungry mods who mute someone for swearing once at a friend when he's only just joking around. Generally speaking, most of the mods I ran into either didn't take their job seriously or took it too seriously - they had no purpose. It might be hard to find that balance as a nooby mod, but all you really need is the ability to pick out the players that are detrimental from Runescape from the ones that are harmless.

 

 

 

My definition of a good mod would be one that tries to deescalate situations and doesn't act like they are above normal players, instead of one that mutes for the sake of muting and bosses everyone around for a personal fix. It's like that one saying about feeding a man a fish. Muting any rulebreaker you see doesn't solve the problem - instilling sound values into the community is much more effective and beneficial to everyone in the long run.

[Guest]

Same reason why people wear Hollister or get 5000 friends on Myspace. It's a status. There are some who do take the time to mute offensive players that just won't shut up, but at the same time there are power-hungry mods who mute someone for swearing once at a friend when he's only just joking around. Generally speaking, most of the mods I ran into either didn't take their job seriously or took it too seriously - they had no purpose. It might be hard to find that balance as a nooby mod, but all you really need is the ability to pick out the players that are detrimental from Runescape from the ones that are harmless.

 

 

 

Agreed. The players attitude to their modship is crucial. The new approach to new pmods might solve this now that they are looking at the players much more closely. They are now inviting players to apply for modship and saying 'justify yourself'. Even that took me by suprise.

 

 

 

My definition of a good mod would be one that tries to deescalate situations and doesn't act like they are above normal players, instead of one that mutes for the sake of muting and bosses everyone around for a personal fix. It's like that one saying about feeding a man a fish. Muting any rulebreaker you see doesn't solve the problem - instilling sound values into the community is much more effective and beneficial to everyone in the long run.

 

 

 

Well said. Common sense prevails.

[Alg]

 

You assume that the posts on the subject are the absolute truth. I do not. Whether they changed parts of the method is unimportant when compared to the parts they advertise as being changed.

 

 

 

 

Except that myself and, chances are, many other current mods, sent very few reports before being modded. I only remember sending a handful beforehand.

 

 

 

So you're saying Jagex have told a pack of lies?

 

 

No, I'm saying that the article is both to give information and make them look good.

 

 

On the subject of FUTURE MODS - Up until recently, one of the main criteria wed look for when inviting moderators would be how many reports theyve sent and how good those reports were How much more honest do you want Jagex to be? I think it pretty much hits the nail on the head. Dont you? Are you now going to tell me that Jagex didnt actually mean this?

Yes, I've been saying that because it's the opposite of what every source until it has said.

 

 

The more you write the worse this is getting............................

 

 

Really? Saying that they're lying because they contradicted previous information makes me look worse?

 

 

 

And how many of them actually earned their status symbol? How many of the actual deserving players who barely reported unless necessary did?

 

 

 

According to Jagex your reports came first. Again you're disputing what your boss says?

 

 

Yes. That shouldn't be a question at this point, I've been saying that openly for a few posts now.

 

 

 

As you've assumed that most former mods did not already do that, and did not already fit a plan that was probably originally written by them.

 

 

 

No, I KNOW they didn't do it. When are you going to fathom out that the system was changed for a reason? You don't change direction if the system was working as it was. Most importantly, you don't change the type of mod you're after if the likes of yourself and those you claim are great were the right types of players in the first place.

 

 

Here's a reason: This fits better. Most players hate mods, so you're actually in a majority. A small portion likes them because they think they have more power than they do. Another portion will friend list one for bragging rights, that may blend a bit with the previous group. An even smaller portion likes the mods because they're parts of the community, but even they may just like the ones that they know, because they know them. They could be meaning to change that.

 

There's also the Jagex version:

 

We are, however, completely confident that this is a big step in the right direction. Weve always hated the bad press moderators often receive, and this change will not only empower our moderators to let their hair down, have more fun and get more involved with our players, but, over time, itll change the perception players have of moderators altogether.

 

Which confirms that.

 

 

 

Seeing as how "my boss" made both claims, you're free to choose whichever you feel is right.

 

 

 

Who is telling the truth? You or Jagex?

 

 

It would be absurd for me to lie about something like this in a debate, wouldn't it?

 

 

 

 

Actually I'm debating that point because you seem to think the change confirms your theory that all mods were in it for the status. This is the focus now, I gave my opinion on it, not that it 'won't happen' but that this is not entirely different from what it was.

 

The criteria that you were selected against didn't exactly take much of an effort. Any monkey can hit the report button and look to catch players out and please don't give me the bull that they did it for the good of the game. They wouldn't have done it in most cases without a crown. It wasn't actually a secret to know this went on, and some pmods will admit to it if you're tactful with them for long enough. You don't actually believe looking at the type of player rather than what they report is more conclusive?

 

Which is why previously they said they looked at the type of player. They started saying otherwise as of that article

 

It seems the more you post the more you are countering what Jagex say themselves. This gives me a series of possible conclusions and neither of them are desirable. Which one is the most suitable for this situation?:

 

 

 

a) You're not telling the truth.

 

 

 

B) The left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. Jagex say one thing and you do your own thing.

 

 

 

c) You're in denial, and pretenting its not happening as you don't want to believe it.

 

 

 

d) Jagex aren't telling the truth.

 

a) As I said, it would be absurd to willingly lie in a debate.

 

B) This is probably true. I'm as distant from the rest of the mod community as I can be while still being a part of it. That doesn't mean I can't observe a contradiction outside of said community.

 

c) If I was denying it, I would be saying that nothing is changing. I've been saying that they contradicted themselves. To paraphrase you, you haven't been reading my posts ;)

 

d) This is what I've been arguing. On the small detail of moderator selection based on reports, I believe that they have contradicted their previous statement. The rest of it, I see nothing wrong with.

 

They have been caught in lies before. A quick search of Truthscape shows at least one major and relevant one: They originally claimed that The Grand Exchange would be entirely player controlled. Who sets new prices? Who set how they change?

[Guest]

Local_guy, Just to confirm a few points:

 

 

 

Are you stating that the whole business is a public relations exercise, rather than a serious attempt to change the moderation selection system to make it more community friendly?

 

 

 

Jagex havent told the truth about reports before player? If so tell us what they tell you and how this contradicts the post they put out.

 

 

 

Are there any other untruths in what they are saying?

 

 

 

Can you elaborate on why so many players hate Pmods so much.

[Troacctid]

Are you stating that the whole business is a public relations exercise, rather than a serious attempt to change the moderation selection system to make it more community friendly?

 

I think it's part of Mark Gerhard's decision to add more focus to the community. Remember "The Future of Runescape" when Mod MMG announced his plans as the new CEO?

 

 

 

We are also committed to working with our fans in the RuneScape community to make the game a more enjoyable place to be. We will be running community events, tournaments and JMod participation in-game to provide more support to you and make RuneScape an even better place to be.

 

 

 

In my mind, it went something like this:

 

[hide=Imaginary meeting of Jagex's Community Management Team]Mod 1: So, what can we do to improve the community?

 

Mod 2: Well, what are we already doing to interact with the community?

 

Mod 1: Great idea. Let's brainstorm.

 

*everyone puts together a list of ways Jagex interacts with the community*

 

Mod 1: So the first item on the list is through Player Mods. How's that working out?

 

Mod 2: Pretty well.

 

Mod 3: Can we make it any better?

 

Mod 2: What if we expand the duties of Pmods and add more emphasis to their roles as role models and guides for other players? They'll still help enforce the rules and educate players, but they can also be pillars of the community and stuff.

 

Mod 1: Hey, that could work. How would we go about that?

 

*brainstorm again*

 

Mod 3: So what we have is that we should start recruiting mods from other sectors of the game, like clan leaders and event organizers. Also, we'll increase the relevance of community-based things when we select moderators. And the other stuff that was talked about.

 

Mod 1: That sounds great. Let's do it. Okay, what's next?[/hide]

[Alg]

Local_guy, Just to confirm a few points:

 

 

 

Are you stating that the whole business is a public relations exercise, rather than a serious attempt to change the moderation selection system to make it more community friendly?

 

Not entirely. But then, there's also a chance that the change is a part of that exercise

 

Jagex havent told the truth about reports before player? If so tell us what they tell you and how this contradicts the post they put out.

 

What they always said was that they decided on moderators by behavior and general helpfulness. Reports were a factor, but not *the* factor.

 

Are there any other untruths in what they are saying?

 

That was the main issue for me.

 

Can you elaborate on why so many players hate Pmods so much.

 

People don't like to be punished, right? As they see it the sole purpose is to punish players through mutes. The bad examples are publicized and they becomes the face of the entire mod community. So you end up with an image of a bunch of uncontrolled players that are above the rules and have power, an image of automatons who do nothing but report anything that moves, often muting, or as you believe, players that let status go to their heads. Which is often too ingrained for a player to give mod-x any kind of chance.

[Lord_Shalaj]

Awaiting a reply.

[Erewhon2]

I have to confess that I have not read all the posts in this thread, but I have kept track of the general discussion and some of the very personalised targeting! :shame:

 

 

 

What I don't understand is the misrepresentation and lack of understanding that some appear to be demonstrating. Although jrhairychest opened the debate with some very pointed remarks, his continual debate (supported by others I might add) seems to have a clear basis that is now evidenced by Jagex:

 

 

 

i.e: "Going from a team of several thousand moderators whove always been asked to concentrate on reporting things, to a team who focus more on community involvement, is no small task." (Mod Hohbein, author of the Jagex blog on volunteer moderators).

 

 

 

I think this is very clear! Now why would anyone want to play a fun game like rs, then spend all their time reporting other players? What does that say about their personality? Their need to be 'better' or more 'superior' than others? I would suggest that some of you read and really take on board the significant and positive development that Jagex are trying to achieve and stop being so aggressively defensive about something that needed to be improved. :?

 

 

 

My own experience of pmods is to sigh when the crown appears and be prepared for a patronising display of arrogance and egotistical, self indulgence. Before you shout at me....not every pmod is like this, but a very large amount are, hence my automatic reaction when I see the crown appear. :roll:

[Guest]

 

Not entirely. But then, there's also a chance that the change is a part of that exercise

 

If you believe that they lied, then they lied to you. I take it if they have lied then there will be a certain percentage of pmods resigning their positions in disgust? Will you be one of them? I just wondered where your principles lie on this issue?

 

 

 

 

Are there any other untruths in what they are saying?

 

That was the main issue for me.

 

 

 

 

Hold on. This wasn't anything new. This is something that was on the moderators recruitment page. Did you expect them to say 'We will be looking at your reports if you want to become a pmod'? They would have been flooded with player reports and the game would have been ridiculous, with friends of friends reporting each other in order to gain a crown. In this instance if Jagex did lie then they were doing it for the good of the game. For their criteria they probably did was right for its time. Now things have evolved they have come clean because to them it doesn't matter now. Players can't get modship like this any more so they can at least get it out in the open. The old method is way too random to be conclusive.

 

 

 

Why you? If it wasn't your reports that got you noticed, then did they just pick you at random and say 'oo lets take a look at him', then watch over you to ensure you were the correct type of person? Of course not, otherwise the waste in man hours would have been incredible, not to mention how many mistakes have been made already with moderator selection.

 

 

 

They are already asking players so submit themselves or others for consideration for pmod status here:

 

 

 

http://forum.[Please Use QuickFind Code].ws?103,104,0,59341959

 

 

 

This way they can see who's interested straight away, then take a good look at that player. If anything it might solve a few problems - Getting more community players into the modship area who are very good at dealing with players and less reliance on reporting by 'not ruling with an iron fist' or something like that as Jagex put it.

 

 

 

Personally I love the idea. I've always held to the point that we don't need mods as players aren't as sensitive as you think and cannot report things for themselves or use ignore buttons (Blame Estorath for fully convincing me). I can't change mods being in the game, but it will make mods so commonplace that nobody will give them a second look any more. Granted many of the old school might be a little hacked off at not being 'special' any more, but if they care about the game as they profess to then there won't be a problem.

 

 

 

So theres no other issues in the post for you? You're happy with the rest?

 

 

 

People don't like to be punished, right? As they see it the sole purpose is to punish players through mutes. The bad examples are publicized and they becomes the face of the entire mod community. So you end up with an image of a bunch of uncontrolled players that are above the rules and have power, an image of automatons who do nothing but report anything that moves, often muting, or as you believe, players that let status go to their heads. Which is often too ingrained for a player to give mod-x any kind of chance.

 

 

 

A small number of poor mods wouldn't make a difference. Theres more to it than that. If its such a small number of poor mods, Jagex would have continued with the old policy and not given a toss, just like they did with your G.E. example (didn't read it but I got the picture). You admit yourself you're detached from much of your own ilk so maybe you might have either ignored it or never noticed things.

 

 

 

The pmod community doesn't help itself in trying to portray a good image. I've given you previous examples of why so I don't need to go into those. I also think Jagex had their share of the blame for not scrutinising their mod community more and not being selective enough in who they chose.

[Guest]

Awaiting a reply.

 

Your last post said nothing new. It brought no new evidence so I just treated it as spam.

 

 

 

I have brought plenty of things to the table including official posts, recruitment links, past and present pmod evidence, not to mention there are some people on here who support the issue's in question (in some cases changed or agreed in opinion).

 

 

 

Your own evidence has been that mods are great and you like to make things personal. Nothing else.

[Guest]

I have to confess that I have not read all the posts in this thread, but I have kept track of the general discussion and some of the very personalised targeting! :shame:

 

 

 

What I don't understand is the misrepresentation and lack of understanding that some appear to be demonstrating. Although jrhairychest opened the debate with some very pointed remarks, his continual debate (supported by others I might add) seems to have a clear basis that is now evidenced by Jagex:

 

 

 

i.e: "Going from a team of several thousand moderators whove always been asked to concentrate on reporting things, to a team who focus more on community involvement, is no small task." (Mod Hohbein, author of the Jagex blog on volunteer moderators).

 

 

 

I think this is very clear! Now why would anyone want to play a fun game like rs, then spend all their time reporting other players? What does that say about their personality? Their need to be 'better' or more 'superior' than others? I would suggest that some of you read and really take on board the significant and positive development that Jagex are trying to achieve and stop being so aggressively defensive about something that needed to be improved. :?

 

 

 

My own experience of pmods is to sigh when the crown appears and be prepared for a patronising display of arrogance and egotistical, self indulgence. Before you shout at me....not every pmod is like this, but a very large amount are, hence my automatic reaction when I see the crown appear. :roll:

 

 

 

I rest my case. Might I suggest the ignore button? It works very well.

[Lord_Shalaj]

Your last post said nothing new. It brought no new evidence so I just treated it as spam.

 

 

 

I have brought plenty of things to the table including official posts, recruitment links, past and present pmod evidence, not to mention there are some people on here who support the issue's in question (in some cases changed or agreed in opinion).

 

 

 

You didn't bother to read the last post. And no, I haven't seen ANY proof on MOST claims of yours. And the others are just cited by a developer blog.

 

 

 

Your own evidence has been that mods are great and you like to make things personal. Nothing else.

 

 

 

LOL? I saw ZERO evidence from you. But well, I guess its hard admitting you were wrong about it in the first place.

 

 

 

I rest my case. Good Day.

 

 

 

Thanks..

 

Lord Shalaj

[Erewhon2]

Ummmm.....am I missing something here?

 

 

 

the others are just cited by a developer blog.

 

 

 

What is a developer blog authorised on the Jagex site? It is an employee of Jagex who is part of the game development team who....wait for it......develops the game! Presumably under the direct supervision and control of Jagex...correct???? #-o

 

 

 

Because of this rather weak and inept statement, that does not support anything you are saying only emphasises an inappropriate attitude, I went back and had a look at some of your posts. And I have to ask myself if you are a historical (or should I say hysterical) pmod? Because you appear to be displaying those incurable symptoms of a

patronising display of arrogance and egotistical, self indulgence.

:shame:

 

 

 

Now I may have this wrong or be missing something. But there are a number of people who have supported the argument that pmods were (please note the past tense) all about the status. Why are you so stressed about reference to a particular person that has been used an an example? Other people have argued the point, but you have made no reference to them, while you are consistently regurgitating the same allegations. If you have an issue with the statements from Jagex (see my previous post), then take it up with them. Until then I am inclined to respond positively to their team statements rather than your aggressive harangues. :thumbdown:

[Alg]

 

Not entirely. But then, there's also a chance that the change is a part of that exercise

 

If you believe that they lied, then they lied to you. I take it if they have lied then there will be a certain percentage of pmods resigning their positions in disgust? Will you be one of them? I just wondered where your principles lie on this issue?

 

Which says nothing about the point you quoted. Would you mind coming up with something that isn't "Jagex wouldn't lie so if you think they did you're wrong"?

 

 

 

 

Are there any other untruths in what they are saying?

 

That was the main issue for me.

 

 

 

 

Hold on. This wasn't anything new. This is something that was on the moderators recruitment page. Did you expect them to say 'We will be looking at your reports if you want to become a pmod'? They would have been flooded with player reports and the game would have been ridiculous, with friends of friends reporting each other in order to gain a crown. In this instance if Jagex did lie then they were doing it for the good of the game. For their criteria they probably did was right for its time. Now things have evolved they have come clean because to them it doesn't matter now. Players can't get modship like this any more so they can at least get it out in the open. The old method is way too random to be conclusive.

 

All you know of the old system is what they mentioned in a brief quote backed by your biases

 

 

 

Why you? If it wasn't your reports that got you noticed, then did they just pick you at random and say 'oo lets take a look at him', then watch over you to ensure you were the correct type of person? Of course not, otherwise the waste in man hours would have been incredible, not to mention how many mistakes have been made already with moderator selection.

 

Then here's a thought. Perhaps the reports introduced the player to them. From there they went on with whatever criteria they chose. Because it'd be equally wasteful and haphazard as saying "This guy sent x reports, le's mod 'im"

 

 

 

They are already asking players so submit themselves or others for consideration for pmod status here:

 

 

 

http://forum.[Please Use QuickFind Code].ws?103,104,0,59341959

 

 

 

This way they can see who's interested straight away, then take a good look at that player. If anything it might solve a few problems - Getting more community players into the modship area who are very good at dealing with players and less reliance on reporting by 'not ruling with an iron fist' or something like that as Jagex put it.

 

"Ruling with an iron fist" is something that Players see. Many mods I know spend more time at minigames or skill spots than actively hunting rulebreakers. Not to say that there weren't hunts but they targeted bots and solicitation rather than the average Joe.

 

 

 

Personally I love the idea. I've always held to the point that we don't need mods as players aren't as sensitive as you think and cannot report things for themselves or use ignore buttons (Blame Estorath for fully convincing me). I can't change mods being in the game, but it will make mods so commonplace that nobody will give them a second look any more. Granted many of the old school might be a little hacked off at not being 'special' any more, but if they care about the game as they profess to then there won't be a problem.

 

Which is why it isn't a problem. I don't know about you, but I haven't seem any mod complaints about this.

 

 

 

So theres no other issues in the post for you? You're happy with the rest?

 

 

 

People don't like to be punished, right? As they see it the sole purpose is to punish players through mutes. The bad examples are publicized and they becomes the face of the entire mod community. So you end up with an image of a bunch of uncontrolled players that are above the rules and have power, an image of automatons who do nothing but report anything that moves, often muting, or as you believe, players that let status go to their heads. Which is often too ingrained for a player to give mod-x any kind of chance.

 

 

 

A small number of poor mods wouldn't make a difference. Theres more to it than that. If its such a small number of poor mods, Jagex would have continued with the old policy and not given a toss, just like they did with your G.E. example (didn't read it but I got the picture). You admit yourself you're detached from much of your own ilk so maybe you might have either ignored it or never noticed things.

 

...You admitted to not reading a point after bashing other debaters for the same thing?

 

 

 

 

The pmod community doesn't help itself in trying to portray a good image. I've given you previous examples of why so I don't need to go into those. I also think Jagex had their share of the blame for not scrutinising their mod community more and not being selective enough in who they chose.

 

They really don't scrutinize them, which is why they have a team devoted to them and they request contact info before modding (Which when they started took a large chunk out of the mod community).

 

The mod community doesn't get a chance to give itself a good image when any mistake an individual mod makes is posted on a forum such as this one and torn to shreds (See the MA example). Plus, they're individuals, and very human. Humans tend to make mistakes.

[Guest]

 

Which says nothing about the point you quoted. Would you mind coming up with something that isn't "Jagex wouldn't lie so if you think they did you're wrong"?

 

 

 

 

'Not entirely' does not mean 'No'. You were agreeing in part then so you believe they've not told the full truth, yet what have you done about it? Have you posted in the Mod forums and debated this issue? Have you challenged this issue to Jagex? The reason for my comments is that it's easy to say on here Jagex were economical with the truth, but I don't see you saying you've challenged them about it, nor done anything about it on point of principle.

 

 

 

 

All you know of the old system is what they mentioned in a brief quote backed by your biases

 

No its backed by the company who do it. Its pretty clear what they say and what they are doing about it, including the quote too from erewhon2 above regarding mod pastimes of the past. If I'm so wrong and you're so right, show me proof.

 

 

 

 

Then here's a thought. Perhaps the reports introduced the player to them. From there they went on with whatever criteria they chose. Because it'd be equally wasteful and haphazard as saying "This guy sent x reports, le's mod 'im"

 

 

 

Are you agreeing or disagreeing that reports introduced the player?

 

 

 

 

"Ruling with an iron fist" is something that Players see. Many mods I know spend more time at minigames or skill spots than actively hunting rulebreakers. Not to say that there weren't hunts but they targeted bots and solicitation rather than the average Joe.

 

 

 

Erewhon2's quote from Jagex disputes this. You were encouraged to do it and that's what you did. I take it this is more Jagex lies that you don't agree with? Erewhon2's point about instead of wanting to play a game pmods spend time reporting players. I agree.

 

 

 

 

Which is why it isn't a problem. I don't know about you, but I haven't seem any mod complaints about this.

 

 

Not being 'special' any more will not go down well with some pmods. If the status is somehow diulted the wrong players won't be as inclined to go for it. I haven't seen any pmods say anything about this as they usually go on my ignore list.

 

 

 

 

...You admitted to not reading a point after bashing other debaters for the same thing?

 

 

 

No, it meant I already understood the gist of what you meant and agreed with you, meaning it was a waste of time to look up something I already agreed with. Is that ok with you or did I need permission not to read it?

 

 

 

 

They really don't scrutinize them, which is why they have a team devoted to them and they request contact info before modding (Which when they started took a large chunk out of the mod community).

 

The mod community doesn't get a chance to give itself a good image when any mistake an individual mod makes is posted on a forum such as this one and torn to shreds (See the MA example). Plus, they're individuals, and very human. Humans tend to make mistakes.

 

 

 

Contact info is an email address, as they currently ask for that now? An email address makes a good mod?

 

 

 

I said before a few mods goofing up wouldn't become an issue and I still stand by that. Maybe the mod community has a bad name because theres actually little admittance that they do wrong and their real motives for being a mod. Humans also have many undesirable traits such as such as arrogance, power hungry, ignorance of their own failings and ignorance of others. Mods are also susceptible to these traits too.

[Alg]

 

Which says nothing about the point you quoted. Would you mind coming up with something that isn't "Jagex wouldn't lie so if you think they did you're wrong"?

 

 

 

 

'Not entirely' does not mean 'No'. You were agreeing in part then so you believe they've not told the full truth, yet what have you done about it? Have you posted in the Mod forums and debated this issue? Have you challenged this issue to Jagex? The reason for my comments is that it's easy to say on here Jagex were economical with the truth, but I don't see you saying you've challenged them about it, nor done anything about it on point of principle.

 

It isn't worth arguing about, the article had more important points to cover. It only matters for this debate, because it could prove that you can't take everything they say at face value.

 

 

 

 

All you know of the old system is what they mentioned in a brief quote backed by your biases

 

No its backed by the company who do it. Its pretty clear what they say and what they are doing about it, including the quote too from erewhon2 above regarding mod pastimes of the past. If I'm so wrong and you're so right, show me proof.

 

The company made a statement. You gave your interpretation. I was challenging your interpretation, not their statement.

 

 

 

 

Then here's a thought. Perhaps the reports introduced the player to them. From there they went on with whatever criteria they chose. Because it'd be equally wasteful and haphazard as saying "This guy sent x reports, le's mod 'im"

 

 

 

Are you agreeing or disagreeing that reports introduced the player?

 

Agreeing that it may have introduced the player, disagreeing that it was a large factor, let alone the sole factor. As you said, it'd be a waste of man-hours to watch every player. Let's say of all active players at the given time they discount the players who have had recent offenses and no serious past offenses, have been hacked, or are new to the game. That narrows it down a lot. Then perhaps you can look at reports to get an idea of how the player is and watch the ones that shine there. That leaves a much smaller portion, which only gets smaller because some players will not take the offer.

 

That's a way it could work. Probably not *the* way but it's a solid example

 

 

 

 

"Ruling with an iron fist" is something that Players see. Many mods I know spend more time at minigames or skill spots than actively hunting rulebreakers. Not to say that there weren't hunts but they targeted bots and solicitation rather than the average Joe.

 

 

 

Erewhon2's quote from Jagex disputes this. You were encouraged to do it and that's what you did. I take it this is more Jagex lies that you don't agree with? Erewhon2's point about instead of wanting to play a game pmods spend time reporting players. I agree.

 

Ah, another quote I can dispute... "Players first, mods second" was their standby. They encouraged only reporting when necessary, and I will be willing to bet money that the community based shift was suggested by mods because it is what they'd been doing already. They NEVER asked us to concentrate on reporting things.

 

 

Which is why it isn't a problem. I don't know about you, but I haven't seem any mod complaints about this.

 

 

Not being 'special' any more will not go down well with some pmods. If the status is somehow diulted the wrong players won't be as inclined to go for it. I haven't seen any pmods say anything about this as they usually go on my ignore list.

 

Then who are you to make all the claims you have been? It's easy to condemn a group as such without ever giving them a chance to prove you wrong, is there? Very mature of you.

 

 

 

 

...You admitted to not reading a point after bashing other debaters for the same thing?

 

 

 

No, it meant I already understood the gist of what you meant and agreed with you, meaning it was a waste of time to look up something I already agreed with. Is that ok with you or did I need permission not to read it?

 

Ah, so then it's a waste of time for me to read further, as from all of your posts so far you'll reply with the same answer about how I'm disputing an official Jagex statement, right?

 

 

 

 

They really don't scrutinize them, which is why they have a team devoted to them and they request contact info before modding (Which when they started took a large chunk out of the mod community).

 

The mod community doesn't get a chance to give itself a good image when any mistake an individual mod makes is posted on a forum such as this one and torn to shreds (See the MA example). Plus, they're individuals, and very human. Humans tend to make mistakes.

 

 

 

Contact info is an email address, as they currently ask for that now? An email address makes a good mod?

 

Maybe not, but a name, address, phone number, and email address may thin out the status seekers, wouldn't you agree?

 

 

 

I said before a few mods goofing up wouldn't become an issue and I still stand by that. Maybe the mod community has a bad name because theres actually little admittance that they do wrong and their real motives for being a mod.

 

Let's face it, who would take a screenshot of a mod being good and post it on a fansite? A mod being bad gets far more attention.

 

To draw a bit of a parallel there's a stereotype that all pures are whiny and rude. If you see a pure not being whiny and rude you don't see him as a pure. If you do, you'll remark with "Oh god another whiny pure". For extra fun you can replace "Whiny and rude" and "pure" with any other stereotype and its traits.

 

Humans also have many undesirable traits such as such as arrogance, power hungry, ignorance of their own failings and ignorance of others. Mods are also susceptible to these traits too.

 

Which does not mean that most mods at any given time fall victim to them. Humans are also quite different from one another, just as there are arrogant power hungry mods there are ones that want to help, just as there are rude and whiny pures with calmer, polite ones, and any other trait for any stereotype contrasted with members of it having the opposite traits.

[Guest]

It isn't worth arguing about, the article had more important points to cover. It only matters for this debate, because it could prove that you can't take everything they say at face value.

 

You think Jagex have lied, then you say its not important. Yet youve posted a number points saying this is the case in some sort of effort to dispute, so I think youve placed a significant value to it. Now that Ive asked you about challenging it with Jagex or using any form of principle on it you back out. Youre either afraid of what they are going to tell you or youre afraid of rocking the boat and losing your modship status. Very noble of you.

 

 

 

The company made a statement. You gave your interpretation. I was challenging your interpretation, not their statement.

 

You have been challenging their statement that I and another player has brought to the table . Thats the problem as direct quotes have been used. Again when I challenge you to prove a point you have no evidence apart from Thats not what Jagex say really or thats your spin on it. Its very difficult to interpret what they say any other way from what theyve said. Again, I challenge you to give evidence to support your claims.

 

 

 

 

Agreeing that it may have introduced the player, disagreeing that it was a large factor, let alone the sole factor. As you said, it'd be a waste of man-hours to watch every player. Let's say of all active players at the given time they discount the players who have had recent offenses and no serious past offenses, have been hacked, or are new to the game. That narrows it down a lot. Then perhaps you can look at reports to get an idea of how the player is and watch the ones that shine there. That leaves a much smaller portion, which only gets smaller because some players will not take the offer.

 

That's a way it could work. Probably not *the* way but it's a solid example

 

After all the denials that you and other pmods made, youre now saying it could be a factor! How can say its not a large factor, trying to play it down lmao? It got you noticed in the first place. You claim you didnt send many reports but it must have been quite a significant amount to get you in front of Jagex for pmod selection.

 

Quite a contradiction to many of your posts.

 

 

 

 

Ah, another quote I can dispute... "Players first, mods second" was their standby. They encouraged only reporting when necessary, and I will be willing to bet money that the community based shift was suggested by mods because it is what they'd been doing already. They NEVER asked us to concentrate on reporting things.

 

 

 

Considering you now admit that the reports has something to do with the initial getting noticed, it more sounds like reports first, game second. They did ask you to report things, but that was left up to you. I also spoke of selective moderation which means when you can be bothered or if Im not on your friends list. You were encouraged to do it, a lot of mods did it, which is why they dont want you doing it as much any more, hence the iron fist and encouraging you to get involved in the community and report less.

 

 

 

If youre willing to be money on the fact that mods got there first then put your money where your mouth is and prove it. Was it more about mods doing it or the fact that too many players were getting hit with mutes/bans?

 

 

 

 

Then who are you to make all the claims you have been? It's easy to condemn a group as such without ever giving them a chance to prove you wrong, is there? Very mature of you.

 

 

Dont forget that before using my ignore list I asked a lot of mods a lot of questions. I never used to put them on ignore as it didnt work on putting public on friends so I presumed that didnt work either. Its only over the last few months Ive tried it and it works. Nothing hurts a pmod more in game than being ignored and I believe its pmods like yourself who actually encourage us to put players on ignore, correct?

 

 

 

You talk about my immaturity you dont bother with your own pmod community so you probably don't know whats going on half the time, dispute posts from the company that gave you your status but you dont have the balls to challenge it to their faces, say reports werent the initial factor to get you noticed for modship then changes your tune and wont provide any form of evidence to the contrary on any points. If Im immature then what does this make you?

 

 

 

 

Ah, so then it's a waste of time for me to read further, as from all of your posts so far you'll reply with the same answer about how I'm disputing an official Jagex statement, right?

 

 

You feel free to leave the debate any time. Im actually glad youre here stating these things. The longer you stay, the more is on record so Id much prefer it if you stayed. If you have a problem with me agreeing with you about the G.E. issue then fine. Peculiar, but fine.

 

 

 

 

Maybe not, but a name, address, phone number, and email address may thin out the status seekers, wouldn't you agree?

 

So they telephoned you and had a good chat did they? Did they come round your house and have a coffee and chat about your pmod role?

 

 

 

 

Let's face it, who would take a screenshot of a mod being good and post it on a fansite? A mod being bad gets far more attention.

 

 

Someone who agreed with my post that the initial system of selection was a poor one? Are you more sore that it goes on or just the fact that mods get a bad name? Ironically you seem to have more of a problem with someone posting it rather than the mod in questions actual behavior. Shouldnt you be condemning that pmods behavior?

 

 

 

 

To draw a bit of a parallel there's a stereotype that all pures are whiny and rude. If you see a pure not being whiny and rude you don't see him as a pure. If you do, you'll remark with "Oh god another whiny pure". For extra fun you can replace "Whiny and rude" and "pure" with any other stereotype and its traits.

 

 

Give a player a choice of whiny and rude over abuse of power. Which would they choose?

 

 

 

Humans also have many undesirable traits such as such as arrogance, power hungry, ignorance of their own failings and ignorance of others. Mods are also susceptible to these traits too. Which does not mean that most mods at any given time fall victim to them. Humans are also quite different from one another, just as there are arrogant power hungry mods there are ones that want to help, just as there are rude and whiny pures with calmer, polite ones, and any other trait for any stereotype contrasted with members of it having the opposite traits.

 

If most players hate pmods, its because pmods display these traits. The only dispute here is how many and what traits. If most players didnt play the game there would be no pmods. Regardless of what you might believe about players they can actually choose for themselves and make their own decisions on whether they like or dislike pmods. Id say its showing ignorance of other players opinion on your part. Its their opinion and theyre entitled to it.

 

 

 

Your pmod community didn't exactly do itself any favours in this post either.

[Alg]

It isn't worth arguing about, the article had more important points to cover. It only matters for this debate, because it could prove that you can't take everything they say at face value.

 

You think Jagex have lied, then you say its not important. Yet youve posted a number points saying this is the case in some sort of effort to dispute, so I think youve placed a significant value to it. Now that Ive asked you about challenging it with Jagex or using any form of principle on it you back out. Youre either afraid of what they are going to tell you or youre afraid of rocking the boat and losing your modship status. Very noble of you.

 

It only matters as far as this debate is concerned. As far as the article is concerned that's a minor point in it, the focus is what they are saying is what they pan to do with the moderator community. It isn't important what they say they previously chose mods based on because it's just that, something they said. There isn't a point in going to Jagex to call them out on it because it simply isn't important as far as moderating goes. When it's this debate it would be a bit important to draw attention to it because it takes some credibility away from it, and as a result, your argument.

 

 

 

The company made a statement. You gave your interpretation. I was challenging your interpretation, not their statement.

 

You have been challenging their statement that I and another player has brought to the table . Thats the problem as direct quotes have been used. Again when I challenge you to prove a point you have no evidence apart from Thats not what Jagex say really or thats your spin on it. Its very difficult to interpret what they say any other way from what theyve said. Again, I challenge you to give evidence to support your claims.

 

Alright, which one?

 

 

 

 

Agreeing that it may have introduced the player, disagreeing that it was a large factor, let alone the sole factor. As you said, it'd be a waste of man-hours to watch every player. Let's say of all active players at the given time they discount the players who have had recent offenses and no serious past offenses, have been hacked, or are new to the game. That narrows it down a lot. Then perhaps you can look at reports to get an idea of how the player is and watch the ones that shine there. That leaves a much smaller portion, which only gets smaller because some players will not take the offer.

 

That's a way it could work. Probably not *the* way but it's a solid example

 

After all the denials that you and other pmods made, youre now saying it could be a factor! How can say its not a large factor, trying to play it down lmao? It got you noticed in the first place. You claim you didnt send many reports but it must have been quite a significant amount to get you in front of Jagex for pmod selection.

 

Quite a contradiction to many of your posts.

 

Could be a factor. Could. I recall denying that it was a major factor. Plus, that's merely a guess at what it could be.

 

 

 

 

Ah, another quote I can dispute... "Players first, mods second" was their standby. They encouraged only reporting when necessary, and I will be willing to bet money that the community based shift was suggested by mods because it is what they'd been doing already. They NEVER asked us to concentrate on reporting things.

 

 

 

Considering you now admit that the reports has something to do with the initial getting noticed, it more sounds like reports first, game second. They did ask you to report things, but that was left up to you. I also spoke of selective moderation which means when you can be bothered or if Im not on your friends list. You were encouraged to do it, a lot of mods did it, which is why they dont want you doing it as much any more, hence the iron fist and encouraging you to get involved in the community and report less.

 

I admitted that it may have played a small role in the decision. The rest came from you.

 

What they encouraged was to report rulebreaking when you saw it, not to go actively hunting rulebreakers. As I did say though, some players did, but that has since died down because what they looked for were bots. There was a program designed to get solicitors and rulebreakers out of free-to-play lumbridge, and both jmods and players took part in these. That isn't the mark of a power-hungry group, is it?

 

 

 

If youre willing to be money on the fact that mods got there first then put your money where your mouth is and prove it. Was it more about mods doing it or the fact that too many players were getting hit with mutes/bans?

 

You mean the mutes and bans that could have been sent by other players too? If high traffic clanchats have taught me anything it's that players are far more ruthless when it comes to reporting and muting. I have seen users go in to the chats specifically to report players, and they have led to more mutes than all of that chat's regular mods combined.

 

As for proof: Adbusters. Any of those bot busting programs before the changes. Even a whole chat dedicated to community outreach. All mod-made. All made long before these changes were announced.

 

 

 

 

Then who are you to make all the claims you have been? It's easy to condemn a group as such without ever giving them a chance to prove you wrong, is there? Very mature of you.

 

 

Dont forget that before using my ignore list I asked a lot of mods a lot of questions. I never used to put them on ignore as it didnt work on putting public on friends so I presumed that didnt work either. Its only over the last few months Ive tried it and it works. Nothing hurts a pmod more in game than being ignored and I believe its pmods like yourself who actually encourage us to put players on ignore, correct?

 

True, except that you are making claims about mods now. Though really, what it implies about you would be far more painful than being ignored...

 

 

 

You talk about my immaturity you dont bother with your own pmod community so you probably don't know whats going on half the time, dispute posts from the company that gave you your status but you dont have the balls to challenge it to their faces, say reports werent the initial factor to get you noticed for modship then changes your tune and wont provide any form of evidence to the contrary on any points. If Im immature then what does this make you?

 

When I say distant, I mean that I do not frequently meet with other mods outside of clanmates. I still pay attention to what happens in it.

 

Also, why challenge it when a community face is a far better appearance than the one most players already see?

 

 

 

 

Ah, so then it's a waste of time for me to read further, as from all of your posts so far you'll reply with the same answer about how I'm disputing an official Jagex statement, right?

 

 

You feel free to leave the debate any time. Im actually glad youre here stating these things. The longer you stay, the more is on record so Id much prefer it if you stayed. If you have a problem with me agreeing with you about the G.E. issue then fine. Peculiar, but fine.

 

Enjoying this too much to leave

 

 

 

 

Maybe not, but a name, address, phone number, and email address may thin out the status seekers, wouldn't you agree?

 

So they telephoned you and had a good chat did they? Did they come round your house and have a coffee and chat about your pmod role?

 

When they requested it, it did take a large chunk out of the mod community. I'd say that's something.

 

 

 

 

Let's face it, who would take a screenshot of a mod being good and post it on a fansite? A mod being bad gets far more attention.

 

 

Someone who agreed with my post that the initial system of selection was a poor one? Are you more sore that it goes on or just the fact that mods get a bad name? Ironically you seem to have more of a problem with someone posting it rather than the mod in questions actual behavior. Shouldnt you be condemning that pmods behavior?

 

I have more a problem with the "GF PMOD LOLOLOL0L posts right after. Knowing most of those posters makes it a bit worse.

 

 

 

 

To draw a bit of a parallel there's a stereotype that all pures are whiny and rude. If you see a pure not being whiny and rude you don't see him as a pure. If you do, you'll remark with "Oh god another whiny pure". For extra fun you can replace "Whiny and rude" and "pure" with any other stereotype and its traits.

 

 

Give a player a choice of whiny and rude over abuse of power. Which would they choose?

 

That just goes with what I was saying. The power abusing ones are the minority.

 

 

 

Humans also have many undesirable traits such as such as arrogance, power hungry, ignorance of their own failings and ignorance of others. Mods are also susceptible to these traits too. Which does not mean that most mods at any given time fall victim to them. Humans are also quite different from one another, just as there are arrogant power hungry mods there are ones that want to help, just as there are rude and whiny pures with calmer, polite ones, and any other trait for any stereotype contrasted with members of it having the opposite traits.

 

If most players hate pmods, its because pmods display these traits. The only dispute here is how many and what traits. If most players didnt play the game there would be no pmods. Regardless of what you might believe about players they can actually choose for themselves and make their own decisions on whether they like or dislike pmods. Id say its showing ignorance of other players opinion on your part. Its their opinion and theyre entitled to it.

 

That's true. I do respect informed opinions more than uninformed though. If someone hates pmods because they were reported, and as a result, muted before, that's when I question it.

 

 

 

Your pmod community didn't exactly do itself any favours in this post either.

 

I'm not posting as a representative on the pmod community. I'm posting as A Local Guy. My opinions have nothing to do with them, they're mine.

[Guest]

A_local_guy:

 

 

 

You claim I know nothing of an old system that Jagex used. I said they reported and you denied it. Now youve had to come around to the point that Jagex could have used reports as an indicator of a potential pmod, yet youre still denying it was a major factor lmao. It was something youve denied since you posted earlier before the Jagex statement, yet it wouldnt be feasible to have done it another way. You became a pmod under the very same system. The new system is where players submit themselves to Jagex without the need to go round reporting. In the form of this debate its pretty significant because you and other pmods told us this wasnt the case way back before the Jagex post, it was about the player. You claim to be taking credibility to my argument but in reality youre just proving it.

 

 

 

Dont be a wuss and challenge Jagex if you think theyve lied. Youve stated on a number of occasions that areas of the Jagex post are false. Where is your evidence to dispute the claims? You seem to think its my claims you have to dispute when its actually the post of the people who made you a pmod Jagex. The post is there right in front of you yet you dispute parts of it or say its not really going on instead of a public relations exercise. I challenge you to dispute this with Jagex, yet you wont. You try to slip out of it with Im not a pmod on here and its not worth challenging it.

 

 

 

Nice claim about the bots. Always been a typical party line from pmods because they didnt want to admit they looked for player reports. There was a program designed to get solicitors and rulebreakers out of free-to-play lumbridge, and both jmods and players took part in these. That isn't the mark of a power-hungry group, is it?. Programme or program?

 

 

 

You whinge that pmods get a bad press. You cite screenshots that players post. I gave you the opportunity to condemn the mod(s) in question but instead you complain about the players posting it and making comments, not the pmod. This confirms your complete lack of awareness and blinkered attitude to the issue. This is just one of the reasons you get a bad press, and now youre showing youre part of that problem.

 

 

 

Players are far more ruthless for reports? When you have modship you can pretty much shut up the shop on reports if you really wanted to so its an easy point to make. Im assuming these players are under the old system and so are reporting in the hope they get noticed.

 

 

 

Im making claims about mods under the old system. I didnt realise they had moved that fast with the new batch.

 

 

 

I see you ignored the points in Erewhon2s initial post including her use of the Jagex statement. Care to challenge?

 

 

 

Requesting personal details such as telephone numbers and addresses is not something everyone wants to give on-line to a company. Its even more worthless if the company gathers that data and then neglects to use it for any purpose.

 

 

 

Sorry, Adbusters was mod made? Got any proof of this or any links to confirm that this was done by pmods who play RS?

 

 

 

Contrary to what you say you are representative of the pmod community. People will read your posts knowing youre a pmod and take what you say as a pmod, just like the others (makes me happy). What you say on here is indicative of both your actions and your attitude. Im happy youre here trying to defend the old system and deny the new system will change anything as it all goes on record. If you think my opinions are uninformed then Id suggest you sit down with the Jagex post, then read through what youve posted on here. Id also suggest as a pmod, talking to Jagex about what you disagree with. Stick around here though its fun :D

[LegsOSkill]

Purpose.

 

 

 

They earned the right to their abilities. Crown or no crown.

[Guest]

Purpose.

 

 

 

They earned the right to their abilities. Crown or no crown.

 

 

 

Explain to me how you earn this 'right'. We've now got to the point where under the old system of selection where you were noticed by the reports you sent. Is this 'earning a right'?

 

 

 

Crown or no crown. Would they do it without the crown?

[Sir_Kurity]

Purpose.

 

 

 

They earned the right to their abilities. Crown or no crown.

 

 

 

"earning" is reporting like any player would do, in other words they didn't really earn it, they were just lucky that jagex spotted them instead of the 50000 other nice reporting players.

[Alg]

 

Crown or no crown. Would they do it without the crown?

 

My answer: hell yes. The crown stands out too much. Can't speak for anyone else but I'd jump at the option to hide it.

[Guest]

Purpose.

 

 

 

They earned the right to their abilities. Crown or no crown.

 

 

 

"earning" is reporting like any player would do, in other words they didn't really earn it, they were just lucky that jagex spotted them instead of the 50000 other nice reporting players.

 

 

 

You make it sound even worse here lol.