PMods - Purpose or Status?

[Guest]

Lmao and that acid never admitted anything, nor proved me wrong. Pfffft! :

 

 

 

Edit - Yes I stand by everything. Can the record also show that acid couldn't disprove any points and can't read. Oh yes I forgot, doesn't believe Jagex too.

[Kenshinjapan]

Oh well in that case I'd advise you to tell Jagex and all those players that they are wrong and you're right :roll:. You haven't once disproved anything I've said. All you've done is given me a bland counter that doesn't dispute any of my points, nor backed it up with any evidence. I've Jagex on my side so where's you evidence. I challenge you to dispute my points as you know you can't. If you had read the post properly you will have seen the denials and in some cases admittance of my initial points. Trying to look clever just makes you look even more ridiculous.

 

 

 

For your info the Jagex post is a couple of pages long. Doh!!. Read it fully!. Baseless assumptions? Wild generalisations? What planet are you on at all. My points have been backed up by Jagex, so if you have a problem you go to them and all those players who agreed with the new direction of mods.

 

 

 

As far as trolling goes you're very good at it. Go to a pub and find a big guy, go up to his face and start on him. When you wake up in hospital you'll know what went wrong.

 

 

 

If you're not going to make any constructive points then just leave. So far, you've done nothing but insult people for 10 pages and called them brown-nosers for opposing you. Either leave or learn how to debate properly.

[Troacctid]

Lmao and that acid never admitted anything, nor proved me wrong. Pfffft! :

 

 

 

Edit - Oh and yes I stand by everything.

 

Yes, you stand by everything, as in the exact opposite of denying everything? Just clarifying here. should I be taking this as "It's all true, I deny nothing"?

[Guest]

Oh well in that case I'd advise you to tell Jagex and all those players that they are wrong and you're right :roll:. You haven't once disproved anything I've said. All you've done is given me a bland counter that doesn't dispute any of my points, nor backed it up with any evidence. I've Jagex on my side so where's you evidence. I challenge you to dispute my points as you know you can't. If you had read the post properly you will have seen the denials and in some cases admittance of my initial points. Trying to look clever just makes you look even more ridiculous.

 

 

 

For your info the Jagex post is a couple of pages long. Doh!!. Read it fully!. Baseless assumptions? Wild generalisations? What planet are you on at all. My points have been backed up by Jagex, so if you have a problem you go to them and all those players who agreed with the new direction of mods.

 

 

 

As far as trolling goes you're very good at it. Go to a pub and find a big guy, go up to his face and start on him. When you wake up in hospital you'll know what went wrong.

 

 

 

If you're not going to make any constructive points then just leave. So far, you've done nothing but insult people for 10 pages and called them brown-nosers for opposing you. Either leave or learn how to debate properly.

 

 

 

I believe I had. Take a look through the posts and look who flames. Many of these are player mods who have tried to dispute my points. If you start a couple of pages back you will see this. If other players have reported me for this, you should look at their posts on this thread too. I have put points forward, including some directly from Jagex, but I'm accused of making this up or lying.

[Kenshinjapan]

I have read through the pages and I still stand by what I've said. All of your points have been made solely from your experiences without any real evidence. Either provide some valid proof or agree to disagree.

[Guest]

Now, to re-emphasise, My post started in February, long before the recent Jagex statement concerning the change in focus on player mods. (Forum Mod?) kenshinjapan has asked me to post and provide evidence. I have now done this. I would like those who disagree to abide by the same and to provide evidence themselves. The post by Jagex was quite frank in what it said and almost completely re-writes how mods operate. Now dont forget, in RS im no rule breaker (some say Im helpful (?!) and have no criminal record. I have never wished to become a player mod and would never do so. I feel players should be trusted to report for themselves and be encouraged to play well and play fair. I have my original quotes and some statements underneath from the original post:

 

 

 

My quote

 

*Mods claim to be 'ordinary players' - Would they want the status if it gave you no crown visible to other players? No they would be unhappy because they 'want' other players to know they are mods - hence they do it for the status. Many who then achieve modship then revert back to the 'its not my problem' routine.

 

Justification: It has already been admitted on here that some mods do it for the status. One has even written he would be unhappy if he had his crown removed. A former mod, Bluelancer , with many years game experience said this - Many of the 'new' p-mods are repulsive though, narcissistic personalities who trample on other players to 'achieve' a crown next to their name. It's sad that Jagex has chosen not to further analyze these people to see if they are fit to be the role models the company needs.

 

 

 

Not once did anyone question this because they knew this guy would have had them on the ropes with it. This guy has played RS for much longer than I have. Now I know he doesnt apply this to every mod in game (which, yes there are some that do the job well) but it gives a clear picture.

 

 

 

My Quote

 

*Why give status to people who will gleefully report others - In my mind you get status for hard work, not at the expense of others (PVP excepted). I find this 'looking for trouble' element of it distasteful as it encourages players to snitch, rather than use common sense.

 

 

 

Justification: Jagex say Up until recently, one of the main criteria wed look for when inviting moderators would be how many reports theyve sent and how good those reports were

 

 

 

Notice the how many is first? You need a volume of reports to work with in the first place. It creates a snitch culture, and links into the trample comment above made by Bluelancer. Lets be honest most RS issues regarding player behavior can be sorted with common sense or is this too much to ask? If Jagex realizes this is such an issue, then no-one can discredit this as this is from them. It takes no skill to report or mute, but it does take skill to deal with people effectively. The mod posts on here denied it was ever about reporting in quantity but the proof is there by Jagex themselves. Is it really a crime to at least want some honour in the game rather than watch your back Jack?

 

 

 

Jagex stated on the current crop of mods - Weve done this by offering re-written guidance, putting much less emphasis on excessive reporting. Now why would you rein them in? Too trigger happy? No common sense applied? Make your own mind up on that one.

 

 

 

Jagex also say I spoke about the creative, vibrant people we have playing RuneScape. These are the people who can help us change the focus of the moderating community, so these are the people well be inviting to help us do just that.

 

 

 

This obviously implies a change of focus by Jagex as to WHO they will recruit for future mods. Selecting those who just reported was never a good idea. A community focus will allow those to guide, not lecture and treat players as adults. I firmly believe Jagex will recruit those who can deal with players better than the current crop of mods we have.

 

 

 

Jagex also state on FUTURE mods: Were still looking for players with incredibly secure accounts, players who havent been persistently breaking rules or been horrible to others, and players who have shown absolute dedication to RuneScape and the communities they belong to. To make sure were selecting the best players, every moderator we choose is put through a strict selection process involving five teams here at Jagex, and only those we feel would genuinely make great additions to the team are invited. We really want to make sure this change in focus doesnt have any impact on the quality of the moderators we invite.

 

 

 

Community focus, rigorous selection, change in focus. Notice it doesnt say individual focus? Its pretty evident that Jagex have woken up to the fact that players wanted modship to serve themselves. Ties in with Bluelancers comments. If it was ok in the first place, Jagex would not have changed it. Obviously something was wrong and Jagex now needs to implement this solution.

 

 

 

My Quote

 

*Why do they insist on giving lectures to players instead of fact? When a mod is around it is permanently littered with mod chat.

 

 

 

Justification Some more issues came up with this on the official RS forums. Players can make their own decisions and they dont need to be lectured at. For some reason mods take on an uncanny schoolteacher approach that irks players. Many of the crop are inexperienced players who lie or waffle rather than give facts or give the wrong information. Jagex want a community approach, so involve and dont tell players like theyre naughty kids. More experienced players (LVL 138, all quest points, min 2000 total) should be used instead of lower level players who bolted in reports. Players would receive more correct information and respect the moderator more in a yeah that guy knows what he is doing. Theres plenty of players who are excellent who fit that criteria but wouldnt be selected in a million years because they report less often.

 

 

 

The only people who disagree with this point are mods themselves and those who love them. No surprises really. For more information look through the posts in here. Pretty much all who disagreed were either mods, wannabe mods or my best mate is a mod. This ties in with the self service element that Jagex want to avoid.

 

 

 

My Quote

 

*Why, when questioned about how they got their modship do they instantly tele or block a player? - Something to be scared of?

 

 

 

Try it yourself sometime. Even though Jagex have freely admitted that players put in a substantial amount of reports, none but a few cared ever to admit it. My only conclusion that I can come up with, based on the denials on here and in game, is that they dont want to admit it. I would certainly be embarrassed if people found out. The posts on here demonstrate a how dare you question us attitude. Well, yes actually Jagex have told us all anyway.

 

 

 

My Quote

 

*Why get shirty with players like myself who will disagree with a mods knowledge, yet threaten to mute me for it because I dare to disagree. Happened on more than one occasion. I don't need to be told off like a child or spoken to as if I don't know what I'm doing.

 

 

 

The proof is on here. No-one could really answer any questions properly or thoroughly. There were constant denials or claims that I didnt know what I was talking about or I cant tell you as its classified. In this post Ive been called names like moron, idiot, and even a Nazi (This was from an In-game mod. This could have been quite an upsetting statement to some). These are supposed to be respectable players. Since the Jagex posted about mods, most have not been back to this thread, even though Ive seen them active because they knew what I'd been saying proved points. This proves my point about the more player orientated approach instead of the obsolete self service approach. These players are supposed to be dealing with people, and yes I have been a little abrasive at times on here, but look at everyone else. I only gave as good as I got. I would agree with the next person that I would not be a good pmod, but I havent seen much in the way these people deal with other people either. I think the change in the type of player that Jagex want to select jusfifies this point.

 

 

 

My Quote

 

*The main issue of bots has been dealt a serious blow by the limit to trades, not by mods.

 

How many bots do you see these days? Macroing is pretty much been dealt with by Jagex themselves, not mods. Theyve posted that they can detect all known bots.

 

 

 

Done 8-)

[All_Is_Great]

I don't get why you posted that long text just to restate what you said on the first page. Honestly.

 

 

 

Oh, and MOST mods are in it for purpose, and I think Jagex has done a great job at selecting mods, though some select few have issues that need to be looked over.

[Guest]

Erm...because I was asked to provide evidence so I did? Did you read? And your tune has changed from the post you put at the top of this page. As I'm asked to provide evidence in this debate, justify what you have said. If what you state is true, Jagex would not re-write the book on it.

[Guest]

 

Yes, you stand by everything, as in the exact opposite of denying everything? Just clarifying here. should I be taking this as "It's all true, I deny nothing"?

 

 

 

Prove me wrong! Justify your points in this debate in how I'm so wrong. Don't forget to read my new post. It will save you a lot of time and effort.

[sees_all1]

 

Yes, you stand by everything, as in the exact opposite of denying everything? Just clarifying here. should I be taking this as "It's all true, I deny nothing"?

 

 

 

Prove me wrong! Justify your points in this debate in how I'm so wrong. Don't forget to read my new post. It will save you a lot of time and effort.

 

 

 

Join tip.it's unofficial clan chat sometimes, Forsakenmage.

 

Forsakenmage is a pmod. She doesn't have any of the qualities you so hate. Also know that when she's in her chat, it never revolves around "omg a mod".

 

 

 

I'm not going to argue you any more, because you ignored my last few posts. The very least you could do is pretend to read the opposing viewpoints, instead of just flaunting your ignorance.

[langer]

I debated in this thread when it started and I'm gonna state back what I thought was right and still is today concerning Jr's statements.

 

 

 

Your first claim is a generalization of all mods. It might be true for some, but it is not for all. Therefore, your statements is somewhat false. It could be true, but it would be nearly impossible to prove.

 

 

 

Your second claim is based on your opinion that reporting rule-breakers is fun and not honorable. We have different opinions on this and based on mine, reporting is fine and keeps the game in a better shape, while yours dictates that this keeps players in a state of fear (I don't think it's that bad if the game is cleaner due to this).

 

 

 

Your third claim is also based on a generalization. Not all mods are attention seeking players. In my experience, it's not a problem, though I rarely pay attention to the public chat.

 

 

 

Your fourth claim is also a generalization. It does not apply to every mod. If you have indeed been muted eveytime you asked this to a mod, I would really want to see the proof and a ratio of occurence vs mute to believe that your claim is accurate for your personnal experience.

 

 

 

Your fifth claim is also a generalization. It does not apply to every mod, but I have to admit that a mod doing that should have his status removed. Ever thought about reporting them?

 

 

 

Your sixth claim is probably true and I have no problem in supporting it. Any mod saying otherwise is dellusional.

[Troacctid]

 

Yes, you stand by everything, as in the exact opposite of denying everything? Just clarifying here. should I be taking this as "It's all true, I deny nothing"?

 

 

 

Prove me wrong! Justify your points in this debate in how I'm so wrong. Don't forget to read my new post. It will save you a lot of time and effort.

 

 

 

[hide=]First, I already did. And you ignored everything I brought up. "Read the thread." :roll:

 

 

 

Second, you've already shown an inability to debate legitimately throughout this entire thread, and you give me no reason to believe that you will start now.[/hide]

 

 

 

Don't think I don't see what you're trying to do. You're obviously trying to distract me with trash talk to take the focus away from the fact that you don't have a leg to stand on. Every time you've been cornered, you've tried to shift the focus onto somebody else. You ignore what they actually said and instead attack them in hopes of putting them on the defensive and leaving them off-balance. Don't take my word for it; just look at these examples.

 

[hide=jrhairychest wrote]

Lmao and that acid never admitted anything, nor proved me wrong. Pfffft!

I challenge you to dispute my points as you know you can't. If you had read the post properly you will have seen the denials and in some cases admittance of my initial points. Trying to look clever just makes you look even more ridiculous.

As far as trolling goes you're very good at it. Go to a pub and find a big guy, go up to his face and start on him. When you wake up in hospital you'll know what went wrong.

Really? Then who was the one who came in, calling me a troll then telling me to shut up....? You! Another pot and kettle person I see. Don't hit out and be suprised when someone rolls it back at you.

You can start flaming me but you don't like it back is that it? The rules apply to me but not you?

Some people just don't like it when you argue back at them.

There there don't have a tantrum now. My last post really rattled you didn't it? If you don't care what someome thinks of you then you have a funny way of showing it. Judging from your atittude its quite easy to see you are the type of player Jagex wants to stay away from. You're obviously unfit as a mod as you're not used to dealing with people answering you back. New mods will have to deal with people better and quite frankly you're not very good at it unless you're getting your own way.

[/hide]Well, this isn't about me taking your bait. It's about me calling you out.

 

 

 

I'm putting you on the spot here:

 

Do you deny that you are trolling?

 

 

 

And this is the last time I'm going to ask.

[Guest]

Your first claim is a generalization of all mods. It might be true for some, but it is not for all. Therefore, your statements is somewhat false. It could be true, but it would be nearly impossible to prove.

 

 

 

I have never denied there were some good mods in the game. You have seen comments on here that some mods wouldnt want to lose their crown. You've also seen bluelancers comments on this issue, who is an ex mod. True for some in my opinion already shows a problem.

 

 

 

 

Your second claim is based on your opinion that reporting rule-breakers is fun and not honorable. We have different opinions on this and based on mine, reporting is fine and keeps the game in a better shape, while yours dictates that this keeps players in a state of fear (I don't think it's that bad if the game is cleaner due to this).

 

 

 

 

Reporting the odd rule breaker is fine. Even I've done this once or twice. I'm looking at the the 'volume'. Im also looking at this 'need to be a mod' so players actively seek it. You haven't addressed Bluelancers comments on this issue. And more importantly, why has Jagex now decided this is not the way to go?

 

 

 

 

Your third claim is also based on a generalization. Not all mods are attention seeking players. In my experience, it's not a problem, though I rarely pay attention to the public chat.

 

 

 

But many are. And that in itself is a problem. Generalising means im applying it in a roundabouts way. And thats not good enough in terms of quality mods.

 

 

 

 

Your fourth claim is also a generalization. It does not apply to every mod. If you have indeed been muted eveytime you asked this to a mod, I would really want to see the proof and a ratio of occurence vs mute to believe that your claim is accurate for your personnal experience.

 

 

 

I don't think you read this properly as I said 'threatened'. Do you think they would actually risk doing it? How about addressing the issue that no-one would admit to reporting in volume? If Jagex says they were moving away from it then you don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to realise it was going on.

 

 

 

 

Your fifth claim is also a generalization. It does not apply to every mod, but I have to admit that a mod doing that should have his status removed. Ever thought about reporting them?

 

 

 

 

Have done so and its not a pretty sight watching the tantrum (the last one went really ape at me, and I mean she went bananas!!). Now I just stick any mod I see on the ignore list and this helps a lot. Pity no-one told me that would work ages ago.

 

 

 

 

Your sixth claim is probably true and I have no problem in supporting it. Any mod saying otherwise is dellusional.

 

 

 

At least you have had a go and tried to answer my questions. The trouble is you're telling me I'm generalising a lot. You're not saying I'm lying etc or trying to cast me to the flames. By this, are you agreeing or disagreeing with my views, especially in light of what Jagex have now said.

 

 

 

I would like you to consider Jagex's comments and your interpretation of them. To me they have wrote a lot of not so nice things in a very nice way about the current crop of mods. What are your thoughts as to why Jagex have decided to change it?

[Guest]

 

Yes, you stand by everything, as in the exact opposite of denying everything? Just clarifying here. should I be taking this as "It's all true, I deny nothing"?

 

 

 

Prove me wrong! Justify your points in this debate in how I'm so wrong. Don't forget to read my new post. It will save you a lot of time and effort.

 

 

 

[hide=]First, I already did. And you ignored everything I brought up. "Read the thread." :roll:

 

 

 

Second, you've already shown an inability to debate legitimately throughout this entire thread, and you give me no reason to believe that you will start now.[/hide]

 

 

 

Don't think I don't see what you're trying to do. You're obviously trying to distract me with trash talk to take the focus away from the fact that you don't have a leg to stand on. Every time you've been cornered, you've tried to shift the focus onto somebody else. You ignore what they actually said and instead attack them in hopes of putting them on the defensive and leaving them off-balance. Don't take my word for it; just look at these examples.

 

[hide=jrhairychest wrote]

Lmao and that acid never admitted anything, nor proved me wrong. Pfffft!

I challenge you to dispute my points as you know you can't. If you had read the post properly you will have seen the denials and in some cases admittance of my initial points. Trying to look clever just makes you look even more ridiculous.

As far as trolling goes you're very good at it. Go to a pub and find a big guy, go up to his face and start on him. When you wake up in hospital you'll know what went wrong.

Really? Then who was the one who came in, calling me a troll then telling me to shut up....? You! Another pot and kettle person I see. Don't hit out and be suprised when someone rolls it back at you.

You can start flaming me but you don't like it back is that it? The rules apply to me but not you?

Some people just don't like it when you argue back at them.

There there don't have a tantrum now. My last post really rattled you didn't it? If you don't care what someome thinks of you then you have a funny way of showing it. Judging from your atittude its quite easy to see you are the type of player Jagex wants to stay away from. You're obviously unfit as a mod as you're not used to dealing with people answering you back. New mods will have to deal with people better and quite frankly you're not very good at it unless you're getting your own way.

[/hide]Well, this isn't about me taking your bait. It's about me calling you out.

 

 

 

I'm putting you on the spot here:

 

Do you deny that you are trolling?

 

 

 

And this is the last time I'm going to ask.

 

 

 

Maybe you should take a leaf out of kenshinjapan's book and lay off the baiting. You obviously aren't interested in debate or you would have put some points forward instead of this continuous goading. You haven't addressed any of the issues either. I've upheld my side as requested by kenshinjapan. I would suggest you do the same.

[Troacctid]

I responded to your arguments back in March. This long-awaited posting of your "evidence" is laughable. I mean, look at this, for example:

 

It has already been admitted on here that some mods do it for the status. One has even written he would be unhappy if he had his crown removed. A former mod, Bluelancer , with many years game experience said this - Many of the 'new' p-mods are repulsive though, narcissistic personalities who trample on other players to 'achieve' a crown next to their name. It's sad that Jagex has chosen not to further analyze these people to see if they are fit to be the role models the company needs.

Yeah, you're right, a former mod did post. On page 12. You spent much of the previous 11 pages claiming that you had evidence for this. Whoops, guess you must have been making that up. And BlueLancer didn't exactly command authority, especially considering he showed an incomplete knowledge of mutable offenses, no longer has access to the moderator lounge area of the forums, acknowledged that he was referring to a small portion of the community, and let's not forget the fact that there are many pages of other mods giving evidence contrary to this point, including more than one who said quite plainly that the crown was not important to them.

 

 

 

Or this:[hide=jrhairychest wrote]Jagex say Up until recently, one of the main criteria wed look for when inviting moderators would be how many reports theyve sent and how good those reports were

 

 

 

Notice the how many is first? You need a volume of reports to work with in the first place. It creates a snitch culture, and links into the trample comment above made by Bluelancer. Lets be honest most RS issues regarding player behavior can be sorted with common sense or is this too much to ask? If Jagex realizes this is such an issue, then no-one can discredit this as this is from them. It takes no skill to report or mute, but it does take skill to deal with people effectively. The mod posts on here denied it was ever about reporting in quantity but the proof is there by Jagex themselves. Is it really a crime to at least want some honour in the game rather than watch your back Jack?

 

 

 

Jagex stated on the current crop of mods - Weve done this by offering re-written guidance, putting much less emphasis on excessive reporting. Now why would you rein them in? Too trigger happy? No common sense applied? Make your own mind up on that one.

 

 

 

Jagex also say I spoke about the creative, vibrant people we have playing RuneScape. These are the people who can help us change the focus of the moderating community, so these are the people well be inviting to help us do just that.

 

 

 

This obviously implies a change of focus by Jagex as to WHO they will recruit for future mods. Selecting those who just reported was never a good idea. A community focus will allow those to guide, not lecture and treat players as adults. I firmly believe Jagex will recruit those who can deal with players better than the current crop of mods we have.

 

 

 

Jagex also state on FUTURE mods: Were still looking for players with incredibly secure accounts, players who havent been persistently breaking rules or been horrible to others, and players who have shown absolute dedication to RuneScape and the communities they belong to. To make sure were selecting the best players, every moderator we choose is put through a strict selection process involving five teams here at Jagex, and only those we feel would genuinely make great additions to the team are invited. We really want to make sure this change in focus doesnt have any impact on the quality of the moderators we invite.

 

 

 

Community focus, rigorous selection, change in focus. Notice it doesnt say individual focus? Its pretty evident that Jagex have woken up to the fact that players wanted modship to serve themselves. Ties in with Bluelancers comments. If it was ok in the first place, Jagex would not have changed it. Obviously something was wrong and Jagex now needs to implement this solution.[/hide]Really quite brilliant how you've taken a quote that is obviously intended to say "We used to give modship mainly to people who were good at sending accurate abuse reports, and that worked fine" and used it as evidence that all mods "look for trouble" and "gleefully" send out questionable abuse reports. And of course, it also happens to completely contradict the "evidence" for your first point, as BlueLancer stated explicitly that it was only the new mods that he found distasteful, and that the old ones were great.

 

 

 

Or this:[hide=jrhairychest wrote]My Quote

 

*Why do they insist on giving lectures to players instead of fact? When a mod is around it is permanently littered with mod chat.

 

 

 

Justification Some more issues came up with this on the official RS forums. Players can make their own decisions and they dont need to be lectured at. For some reason mods take on an uncanny schoolteacher approach that irks players. Many of the crop are inexperienced players who lie or waffle rather than give facts or give the wrong information. Jagex want a community approach, so involve and dont tell players like theyre naughty kids. More experienced players (LVL 138, all quest points, min 2000 total) should be used instead of lower level players who bolted in reports. Players would receive more correct information and respect the moderator more in a yeah that guy knows what he is doing. Theres plenty of players who are excellent who fit that criteria but wouldnt be selected in a million years because they report less often.

 

 

 

The only people who disagree with this point are mods themselves and those who love them. No surprises really. For more information look through the posts in here. Pretty much all who disagreed were either mods, wannabe mods or my best mate is a mod. This ties in with the self service element that Jagex want to avoid.

 

 

 

My Quote

 

*Why, when questioned about how they got their modship do they instantly tele or block a player? - Something to be scared of?

 

 

 

Try it yourself sometime. Even though Jagex have freely admitted that players put in a substantial amount of reports, none but a few cared ever to admit it. My only conclusion that I can come up with, based on the denials on here and in game, is that they dont want to admit it. I would certainly be embarrassed if people found out. The posts on here demonstrate a how dare you question us attitude. Well, yes actually Jagex have told us all anyway.

 

 

 

My Quote

 

*Why get shirty with players like myself who will disagree with a mods knowledge, yet threaten to mute me for it because I dare to disagree. Happened on more than one occasion. I don't need to be told off like a child or spoken to as if I don't know what I'm doing.

 

 

 

The proof is on here. No-one could really answer any questions properly or thoroughly. There were constant denials or claims that I didnt know what I was talking about or I cant tell you as its classified. In this post Ive been called names like moron, idiot, and even a Nazi (This was from an In-game mod. This could have been quite an upsetting statement to some). These are supposed to be respectable players. Since the Jagex posted about mods, most have not been back to this thread, even though Ive seen them active because they knew what I'd been saying proved points. This proves my point about the more player orientated approach instead of the obsolete self service approach. These players are supposed to be dealing with people, and yes I have been a little abrasive at times on here, but look at everyone else. I only gave as good as I got. I would agree with the next person that I would not be a good pmod, but I havent seen much in the way these people deal with other people either. I think the change in the type of player that Jagex want to select jusfifies this point.[/hide]

 

And then, after promising to give evidence to support the rest of your claims as well, you say you're giving evidence, and then you don't give any evidence, and then immediately afterward you claim you've just upheld your views with evidence.

[Guest]

Exactly what evidence are you speaking of? And why are you engaging in attacks on a forum mod. when you know you're risking it? At no point did he say small portion of the community either i.e. 'many'. I'm not sure if you have realised this yet but he's had much more experience of RS and moderation than you have. And his comments regarding new player mods are in regards to the posters you see on here.

 

 

 

As for the reporting thing the onus is on you to prove me wrong. I've used jagex's words 'Exactly' to the letter. If it doesn't mean this, you explain what it means.

 

 

 

You havent read it still have you or you would have pulled it all apart. Address the points in the jagex statement (copy and paste from my post if you like). I've done my part now you do yours.

[Troacctid]

Exactly what evidence are you speaking of? And why are you engaging in attacks on a forum mod. when you know you're risking it? At no point did he say small portion of the community either i.e. 'many'. I'm not sure if you have realised this yet but he's had much more experience of RS and moderation than you have. And his comments regarding new player mods are in regards to the posters you see on here.

 

 

 

As for the reporting thing the onus is on you to prove me wrong. I've used jagex's words 'Exactly' to the letter. If it doesn't mean this, you explain what it means.

 

 

 

You havent read it still have you or you would have pulled it all apart. Address the points in the jagex statement (copy and paste from my post if you like). I've done my part now you do yours.

 

You've done your part as a troll.

 

 

 

I already told you, I responded to your arguments five pages ago.

 

 

 

For reference, this is the Jagex post in question, and I think most people would agree that you'd need to stretch it pretty far to support any negative portrayal of player moderators.

[Guest]

You haven't brought a thing to this debate. You havent answered my points at all on these issues or discussed anything about the Jagex post. The post itself is pretty conclusive, and you're scared to discuss it as you know it proved much of what I said to be correct. Troll......No I'd like to think of myself more as an ogre.

[Technologic]

Here's a vid of how carefully Jagex selects their mods.

 

 

 

[Guest]

Lol a very funny example of power in the wrong hands.

[Guest]

Ok I'm still getting that feeling that very few want to tackle the Jagex post. Only Langer has made any reasonable attempt at it so I'm going to post a few questions myself to see if anyone can answer them. The Jagex post is here. (thanks troacctid)

 

 

 

1) If the system was fine, as many claimed it had only a few bad apples, why change it?

 

 

 

2) If I was so wrong to begin with, how come the recruitment policy for pmods has changed to focusing more on the player? Is this an admittance that perhaps they were not getting the pmods they wanted?

 

 

 

3) If question 2 is an admittance, then why did people go for modship in the first place? If not for the good of the community was this for the status?

 

 

 

4) Why has the recruitment policy been tightened up?

 

 

 

5) Why the new direction on community pmods? From what I was told on here, mods are supposed to be helpful, friendly people and not the RS police so why was the guidance re-written?

 

 

 

6) Were Jagex concerned about losing players by pmods being a little over zealous in their mutes and reports, as it seems they want them to do this less?

 

 

 

Feel free to post. :thumbup:

[sees_all1]

Ok I'm still getting that feeling that very few want to tackle the Jagex post. Only Langer has made any reasonable attempt at it so I'm going to post a few questions myself to see if anyone can answer them. The Jagex post is here. (thanks troacctid)

 

 

 

1) If the system was fine, as many claimed it had only a few bad apples, why change it?

 

Jagex stated they wanted a "community" focus, instead of individual focus. That's what most of the updates from the past couple years have been geared towards: clan chats, lootshare, the new game related items, clan wars - the list goes on and on.

 

It seems that rather than make (relatively) unknown players pmods, they want to make existing leaders in different communities pmods. I.E. they're shifting their focus to make it truely multiplayer.

 

 

 

2) If I was so wrong to begin with, how come the recruitment policy for pmods has changed to focusing more on the player? Is this an admittance that perhaps they were not getting the pmods they wanted?

 

From the jagex quote:

 

"Moderators are, of course, still able to escalate dodgy situations straight to us. This combined with their silver crown means that theyre able to deter and help remove rule breakers from the game in a flash, which is unquestionably important. "

 

"Weve been working with our moderator communities to help them step away from the moderating the community approach and towards encouraging greater community involvement. Weve done this by offering re-written guidance, putting much less emphasis on excessive reporting, and making sure our moderators are given all of the support they need via our moderator only forums."

 

 

 

I think that means they got exactly what they wanted, and it worked really well. But that doesn't mean they're not allowed to change their focus. What I get out of that is Jagex really wants communities in runescape; and while they can't use JMods to force communities, they can ask their PMods to help form communities.

 

.

 

 

 

3) If question 2 is an admittance, then why did people go for modship in the first place? If not for the good of the community was this for the status?

 

You will be hard pressed to find a sticky on the RSOF that says "apply to be a player moderator here." You can't send a letter to jagex, appealing to be a mod. Jagex picks you. In fact, Jagex doesn't pick you, Jagex invites you. They give you an invitation to become a moderator, and you can accept or decline. I've heard that Zezima was asked many times to be a moderator, but declined for so long. I'm guessing there are other players that have declined, too. Which means its not a strictly "good for community" or "good for self".

 

 

 

4) Why has the recruitment policy been tightened up?

 

It hasn't "tightened up", its shifted focus. I haven't read anywhere in that article that said, "Previously, we had four teams to scrutinize the players we picked. Now we have five". It read more along the lines of, "We used to want people to be good moderators, and players that sent in accurate reports were good indicators of this. Now we want our moderators to be leaders in the community, so we'll look for community leaders instead."

 

 

 

5) Why the new direction on community pmods? From what I was told on here, mods are supposed to be helpful, friendly people and not the RS police so why was the guidance re-written?

 

Jagex wants communities. Even before the switch, "Weve always made it clear that theyre players first, moderators second". So yes - mods are supposed to be helpful, friendly people who play RS, and not police.

 

 

 

6) Were Jagex concerned about losing players by pmods being a little over zealous in their mutes and reports, as it seems they want them to do this less?

 

Or perhaps, Jagex has found that players in communities tend to play the game longer than lone players. And players that play longer tend to make Jagex more money...

 

Anyhow, you won't find in that article that Jagex says - Don't temporarily mute players, because we don't want you to do that right now. Jagex instead says - in addition to being a moderator, support communities.

 

 

 

Feel free to post. :thumbup:

 

and feel free to quit trolling.

[Guest]

 

1) If the system was fine, as many claimed it had only a few bad apples, why change it?

 

Jagex stated they wanted a "community" focus, instead of individual focus. That's what most of the updates from the past couple years have been geared towards: clan chats, lootshare, the new game related items, clan wars - the list goes on and on.

 

It seems that rather than make (relatively) unknown players pmods, they want to make existing leaders in different communities pmods. I.E. they're shifting their focus to make it truely multiplayer.

 

 

 

A good point. So these players you speak of are more interested in the communities they are in (clan etc) rather than self service or reporting people? And if so generally these people are much better at working with other players? If this is the case then it means that Jagex ARE looking for the correct type of players rather than reporters. At least this will be a step in the right direction from the 'me me me' culture of mods.

 

 

 

 

2) If I was so wrong to begin with, how come the recruitment policy for pmods has changed to focusing more on the player? Is this an admittance that perhaps they were not getting the pmods they wanted?

 

From the jagex quote:

 

"Moderators are, of course, still able to escalate dodgy situations straight to us. This combined with their silver crown means that theyre able to deter and help remove rule breakers from the game in a flash, which is unquestionably important. "

 

 

 

"Weve been working with our moderator communities to help them step away from the moderating the community approach and towards encouraging greater community involvement. Weve done this by offering re-written guidance, putting much less emphasis on excessive reporting, and making sure our moderators are given all of the support they need via our moderator only forums."

 

 

 

I think that means they got exactly what they wanted, and it worked really well. But that doesn't mean they're not allowed to change their focus. What I get out of that is Jagex really wants communities in runescape; and while they can't use JMods to force communities, they can ask their PMods to help form communities.

 

.

 

 

 

I don't think so. Do you really think Jagex would turn round and say 'well we didn't get what we want'. Re-writing the guidance doesn't mean they got what they wanted. The part "putting much less emphasis on excessive reporting" suggests a new direction, instead of reporting all and sundry. Just because they have a crop of mods doesn't mean those mods are suitable for the task. I think Mod Hohbein wrote this very well and was very nice about it. You also forgot to mention this part on future mods.

 

 

 

"Up until recently, one of the main criteria wed look for when inviting moderators would be how many reports theyve sent and how good those reports were. This had to change as, although weve found some absolutely brilliant players using these criteria in the past, given our new focus, we stand a better chance of finding suitable players if we look more broadly at the RS community."

 

 

 

They're changing direction on WHO they want to work with players and not self service. They were not getting the players they wanted and they don't want to rule, again put well, with 'an iron fist'. If Jagex can realise thats what they were doing, can't you?

 

 

 

 

3) If question 2 is an admittance, then why did people go for modship in the first place? If not for the good of the community was this for the status?

 

You will be hard pressed to find a sticky on the RSOF that says "apply to be a player moderator here." You can't send a letter to jagex, appealing to be a mod. Jagex picks you. In fact, Jagex doesn't pick you, Jagex invites you. They give you an invitation to become a moderator, and you can accept or decline. I've heard that Zezima was asked many times to be a moderator, but declined for so long. I'm guessing there are other players that have declined, too. Which means its not a strictly "good for community" or "good for self".

 

 

 

You haven't answered this question.

 

 

 

I also heard rumors that Jagex were monitoring Zezima's account for evidence of macroing and account sharing. Mine are just rumors and so are yours.

 

 

 

 

4) Why has the recruitment policy been tightened up?

 

It hasn't "tightened up", its shifted focus. I haven't read anywhere in that article that said, "Previously, we had four teams to scrutinize the players we picked. Now we have five". It read more along the lines of, "We used to want people to be good moderators, and players that sent in accurate reports were good indicators of this. Now we want our moderators to be leaders in the community, so we'll look for community leaders instead."

 

 

 

Under the old system I could go around to banks or public areas, report away etc. No people skills required.

 

 

 

And how do you propose they will do this? Reports? Nope. If this is to be effective they will analyse players themselves. This is a much more robust type of way to guage a feel of how a player really is. I'd say that's tightening up your recruitment policy.

 

 

 

 

5) Why the new direction on community pmods? From what I was told on here, mods are supposed to be helpful, friendly people and not the RS police so why was the guidance re-written?

 

Jagex wants communities. Even before the switch, "Weve always made it clear that theyre players first, moderators second". So yes - mods are supposed to be helpful, friendly people who play RS, and not police.

 

 

 

So the 'iron fist' comments and the change in the direction of future mods do not exist? If what you say is true then Jagex would simply have picked more from communities such as clans etc. They would not need to re-write anything. Or could it have been that players from clans don't bang in reports and actually concentrate on having a good time and playing the game instead of trying to police.

 

 

 

 

6) Were Jagex concerned about losing players by pmods being a little over zealous in their mutes and reports, as it seems they want them to do this less?

 

Or perhaps, Jagex has found that players in communities tend to play the game longer than lone players. And players that play longer tend to make Jagex more money...

 

Anyhow, you won't find in that article that Jagex says - Don't temporarily mute players, because we don't want you to do that right now. Jagex instead says - in addition to being a moderator, support communities.

 

 

 

Oh right.......So 'putting less emphasis on excessive reporting' means nothing does it? Do you have any evidence of this point you make that community players play longer than lone players from Jagex? Or could it be that we in a global recession and Jagex's primary concern is making money? They could be losing just a few too many players than they would like.

 

 

 

 

 

Ogre! Can't you read???? ;)

[Troacctid]

Up until recently, one of the main criteria wed look for when inviting moderators would be how many reports theyve sent and how good those reports were. This had to change as, although weve found some absolutely brilliant players using these criteria in the past, given our new focus, we stand a better chance of finding suitable players if we look more broadly at the RS community.

 

Ahem.

[Guest]

Up until recently, one of the main criteria wed look for when inviting moderators would be how many reports theyve sent and how good those reports were. This had to change as, although weve found some absolutely brilliant players using these criteria in the past, given our new focus, we stand a better chance of finding suitable players if we look more broadly at the RS community.

 

 

 

*cough*

 

 

 

'Some' brilliant players, better chance, suitable players, look more broadly.

 

As I've said they've been very polite about it.