PMods - Purpose or Status?

[mmmcannibalism]

Hypocritical? Ok lets look at this shall we?

 

 

 

1) Players can use ignore or report for themselves, making them more independent. For some reason very few of you have an answer to this point because if more players did this, there would be no place for you. You mods claim you make the game safer and more enjoyable yet you don't really admit this point.

 

 

 

2) An autoreport system could tighten up the game more. This is something that you claim could not work, yet you admit moderators are not a perfect system either. In this the players would be much more responsible for their own actions. You claim to care about the game and its security yet you say 'oo bad idea'. This also contradicts a post you made earlier about such a system having the possibility of replacing pmods.

 

 

 

3) You wouldn't be happy if you lost your crown, so you admit at least in part you enjoy the status it gives you.

 

 

 

4) Judging by the way some mods (or wannabe) posters have handled debate, its either a case of 'hey that doesn't work because I say so' or 'you are too thick to understand this'. So its all an act on RS, as these guys do the cheesy nice guy routine until someone dares to argue back at them.

 

 

 

I could go on but I won't. I would suggest you look closer to home and to those of your own ilk before you lecture me.

 

 

 

As far as F2P is concerned they have no more rights than the rest and thats fine. Its the fact when players are given 'more priority' than others when we pay the same fee it is a problem. Think that answers the quote below too.

 

 

 

1. your basically saying that rulebreaking isnt a problem because players can use the ignore list. Its valid that you can ignore, but why should jagex tolerate rule breaking in any respect?

 

 

 

2. I fail to see your line of reasoning, you say mods arent necessary because players can ignore but you want an auto report system to tighten up the game? Those are two contradictory positions, my desire for uniform rule reinforcement isnt. As Ive said repeatedly, an auto report system could replace mods, but since a good enough system cant be made it shouldnt. Why should we start switching from imperfect system to imperfect system just because you dont like mods?

 

 

 

3. your point? Im sure that every person in an elected or appointed position takes some pride in their position so unless your accusing me of being human I dont see the merit. You can try to overstate my ego, but I honestly dont care about my status if losing it meant something better for the overall rs community

 

 

 

4. your basis of mods not working is based mostly on you not liking them and them not being perfect. Yet, your suggestion for a solution would be even less perfect, and would most likely cause more complaints from the community as a whole. Why would a player that doesnt like mods want a robot playing mod and reporting as it pleases? At least with human mods you can reprimand them for excessive use of reporting, a computer censor would need fixed for every case it was determined to be too strict or too lenient.

[Guest]

1) You're a little misinformed about what AI is so I'll explain it to you. Its a computer learning or becoming self-aware. An autoreport system would neither be self aware or a learning system. Glad that clears that up.

 

 

 

 

oh so your going to somehow give jagex a system that learns what is profanity, my apologies I was under the impression we were talking about reality.

 

Learns? Read sees_all post again and you'll see it was his idea not mine :roll:

 

 

 

 

Im with sees all, you can deny every point we make but since the logic of mutually exclusive is a joke to you its clear to me you cant handle actual debate.

 

 

 

Considering theres a few of you mods out there I'm doing it pretty well. The mutually exclusive logic was a pathetic attempt to blind someone with stats garbage. The last few paragraphs are the most amusing.

 

 

 

I meet players like that on RS who play 24/7 because they can't/wont get a job, but spout off to the rest of us like they know something.

 

 

 

I think I'm doing just fine thanks. You always say 'cant handle debate' when someone argues back. See my last post before you speak!

 

 

 

 

Mods have purpose because they can instant mute advert bots, which is a benefit to the game.

 

 

 

Mods have status because they have a marking that differentiates them from other players

 

 

 

You can deny the use of mods but the fact stands they have accurate uses which gives them a purpose. Your personal hatred of mods is irrelevant to the fact that jagex(a multimillion dollar company) believes they are needed, and Im willing to side with the company of people paid to make the game work. If a perfect auto reporting system could work then mods would become obsolete, since your so sure it will work use this alleged programming skill you have and tell jagex how to do it.

 

 

 

1) you admit yourself its partially for the status

 

 

 

2) It encourages players to snitch on others to get the status

 

 

 

Shall I go on.....?

 

 

 

Accurate uses? Your last post says that they aren't perfect reporters?! Lmao about the programming skill. I apologise if you're not happy in your job or whatever it is you do. I love my job thanks :D . It seems it makes you guys ratty that you're up against someone who can actually point out things rather than say 'yes mod!'. By the way Jagex are a multi-million POUND company, who are now a litle jittery that players are leaving.

 

 

 

I said I'm not the greatest programmer or the most efficient, and if you have read the other posts, in the current economic climate its not exactly high on their priorities. Its the customer service they are trying to get right to stop more players leaving.

[Guest]

 

1. your basically saying that rulebreaking isnt a problem because players can use the ignore list. Its valid that you can ignore, but why should jagex tolerate rule breaking in any respect?

 

 

 

Who said I condone breaking rules? I condone common sense. Big difference. Ah so you agree that a player can report, put on ignore and jobs done. Now did that need any science, analogy etc? No. oo a spammer, hit ignore. oo a web advertiser, report and hit ignore.

 

 

 

 

2. I fail to see your line of reasoning, you say mods arent necessary because players can ignore but you want an auto report system to tighten up the game? Those are two contradictory positions, my desire for uniform rule reinforcement isnt. As Ive said repeatedly, an auto report system could replace mods, but since a good enough system cant be made it shouldnt. Why should we start switching from imperfect system to imperfect system just because you dont like mods?

 

 

 

 

No the combination of a report system and a players common sense. I'll take you back to earlier posts to save you reading. I said that it encourages report hunters to go for status. It encourages attention seekers as mods. I see no benefit in this. At least you admit the system is imperfect as it is. I would rather be in control of my own destiny in game.

 

 

 

 

3. your point? Im sure that every person in an elected or appointed position takes some pride in their position so unless your accusing me of being human I dont see the merit. You can try to overstate my ego, but I honestly dont care about my status if losing it meant something better for the overall rs community

 

 

 

 

I see merit in a 99 cape. I see merit in a guy who has a phat. I see merit in a guy who can pk other players, I see merit in someone who can merch. I see no merit in gaining status by pumping out reports and helping players with the cheesy falseness that goes with it. Then taking the 'hey look at me' or 'I am the law' stance when they feel like it.

 

 

 

 

4. your basis of mods not working is based mostly on you not liking them and them not being perfect. Yet, your suggestion for a solution would be even less perfect, and would most likely cause more complaints from the community as a whole. Why would a player that doesnt like mods want a robot playing mod and reporting as it pleases? At least with human mods you can reprimand them for excessive use of reporting, a computer censor would need fixed for every case it was determined to be too strict or too lenient.

 

 

 

Allow players to fall on their own swords. Not encourage others to snitch on each other. It is no crime to not like snitches or a system that encourages players to do so. New systems take TIME to get them right.

 

 

 

By the way I'm assuming then that you're a software programmer yourself and you have knowledge of such things to make them impossible? After all this puts you in a position to argue points.

[mmmcannibalism]

I see merit in a 99 cape. I see merit in a guy who has a phat. I see merit in a guy who can pk other players, I see merit in someone who can merch. I see no merit in gaining status by pumping out reports and helping players with the cheesy falseness that goes with it. Then taking the 'hey look at me' or 'I am the law' stance when they feel like it.

 

 

 

your still being horribly subjective. I didnt gain modship by "pumping out reports and helping players with cheesy falseness" so your point is null. If a player asks me for help how is it taking a "hey look at me" approach? If you have a problem with me being helpful so be it, Im going to be the same guy with or without a crown, the crown just results in more questions. Your "I am the law" statement is entirely fruitless, you want players to exercise common sense but you dont want me to help people with rules confusion if they ask?

 

 

 

Allow players to fall on their own swords. Not encourage others to snitch on each other. It is no crime to not like snitches or a system that encourages players to do so. New systems take TIME to get them right.

 

 

 

By the way I'm assuming then that you're a software programmer yourself and you have knowledge of such things to make them impossible? After all this puts you in a position to argue points.

 

 

 

so its better to allow players to have an unsatisfying game experience, but its not okay to encourage self regulation? Wasnt your rant started because you dealt with some bad players who had an undeserved mod status? Since weve shown that bad players cause in game problems trying to limit player reporting is just going to cause more problems. Players that "snitch" are seperate from players that legitimately report, lets stop generalizing here its just unfair to good people.

 

 

 

No I have nearly zero programming experience, I am however aware that true artificial intellgence which you are suggesting is currently highly infeasible.

[Iamdan]

Ah, more assumptions. Ok, I don't report, or ask anyone to stop something that I do myself in game.

 

 

 

Runescape does have a client, when we load the applet from the runescape server, the applet runs the client saved on our computer. (which we download when we update runescape) The client is quite easily taken from the server, deobfuscated and edited. How do you think macro software is made? Editing the client to read a script and send the right packets...

 

 

 

My point was that when a pmod asks a spammer to stop in a clan chat, it is no more "power hungry" or whatever you want to call it, than if a general kicked that person.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is a 'when it suits me' section. You don't broadcast or lecture until it suits you and you don't deal with mod questions until it suits you. Do yourself a favour and come down a little. You're a mod not god. Do you think you're too good to deal with these questions, or are you fed up with questions by the players?

 

 

 

See, I'm just a regular player. I don't have to do anything that other players don't have to do. I don't have to answer questions, I don't have to talk in public, I don't have to report people, and I don't have to play.

 

 

 

I answer questions because I am willing to, because I did it before I was a player mod. However since I get pm's constantly from random people asking for help with quests, and at the same time questions about how I got my crown in the public chat after I told somebody not talking doesn't mean macroing, then at the same time I am talking to a bunch of friends in the clan chat, while getting constant questions from other people in the clan chat, sometimes I just like to turn chat off and play the game.

 

 

 

I don't think I'm a god, I don't see myself as better because of a crown, and I don't care that you seem to feel that way. You haven't talked to me in game, and you have no idea what I'm like. I'd appreciate it if you stopped making assumptions you have no idea about. I'm just a mature player that helps people in the game, who knows what the rules are. Crown or no crown.

 

 

 

Hmm this isn't exactly the lines that Jagex tells players. Are you saying this is quoted on the website somewhere?

 

No, it's common sense.

 

Anyway here is the bottom line: It's jagex that has to sift through all the reports, it's jagex's game you play, so it's jagex that gets to decide if and who they want to prioritize when it comes to reporting.

 

 

 

 

Whoa! put your money where you mouth is at least! If theres guidelines that you're using that players do not know about, how do they know how you're judging them? Its like hiding the rule book then pulling it out when you cry foul.

 

Follow the rules on the main website and you won't have any issues. If somebody get's punished for the wrong reason, that's an issue with customer support not the rules.

[quelmotz]

I guess the PMod system is fine now, but irl it happens with almost any form of authority, even very slight, over others. And others feel uncomfortable about it. (People will behave very well if a policeman passes by) Probably a solution would be to look through the list of PMods carefully and fire those who don't do their duty well/abuse their power. Another solution would to be to reduce the power they have, so they cannot abuse their status so easily.

 

 

 

Maybe mods should be better trained in how they catch people breaking rules. They shouldn't announce themselves loudly and catch people immediately, but should sit quietly and gather concrete evidence before catching people.

[mmmcannibalism]

I guess the PMod system is fine now, but irl it happens with almost any form of authority, even very slight, over others. And others feel uncomfortable about it. (People will behave very well if a policeman passes by) Probably a solution would be to look through the list of PMods carefully and fire those who don't do their duty well/abuse their power. Another solution would to be to reduce the power they have, so they cannot abuse their status so easily.

 

 

 

Maybe mods should be better trained in how they catch people breaking rules. They shouldn't announce themselves loudly and catch people immediately, but should sit quietly and gather concrete evidence before catching people.

 

 

 

only thing is how can you reduce their power while keeping them mods? just curious

 

 

 

I agree totally though, mods are already told not to just run in and report. If a situation warrants a mute instantly I usually just deal with it, if there is any doubt as to how offensive it is I usually wait for them to talk again.

[quelmotz]

Not very sure myself. Maybe make the temp ban/mute time shorter or something.

 

 

 

But after they gather the evidence, they should at least let the guy say something in defence before catching them. Maybe it was a misunderstanding or typo.

[Iamdan]

Not very sure myself. Maybe make the temp ban/mute time shorter or something.

 

 

 

But after they gather the evidence, they should at least let the guy say something in defence before catching them. Maybe it was a misunderstanding or typo.

 

 

 

Pmods can't temp ban. The mute is for 48 hours, but they usually only last a couple hours. When pmods mute someone, jagex looks at it usually that day and will either unmute, change it to a temp/perm mute, or change it into a temp/perm ban.

[mmmcannibalism]

Not very sure myself. Maybe make the temp ban/mute time shorter or something.

 

 

 

But after they gather the evidence, they should at least let the guy say something in defence before catching them. Maybe it was a misunderstanding or typo.

 

 

 

the thing is, there are very few if any cases in which Ive muted someone for something that could have been a typo.

[quelmotz]

I know. Very few cases, but still a case where you do that could annoy people a lot and maybe even quit.

[mmmcannibalism]

I know. Very few cases, but still a case where you do that could annoy people a lot and maybe even quit.

 

 

 

the thing is, no matter what the punishment they will still be annoyed if they get reported for a typo, and I doubt there is any typo that would take text from non reportable to a mute

[quelmotz]

Yeah true.

[Assume Nothing]

I know. Very few cases, but still a case where you do that could annoy people a lot and maybe even quit.

 

 

 

the thing is, no matter what the punishment they will still be annoyed if they get reported for a typo, and I doubt there is any typo that would take text from non reportable to a mute

 

 

 

Untrue. Y and J are close to each other, and 'yews' can be burnt...... you know what I'm going to say next. Also with shortening what we write, saying something like "I bought 200k worth of gold" would be a bannable offense, even if it was meant to be buying 200k worth of gold ores to smelt into bars. Sometimes there is a double meaning in things that can warrant a mute and a non-mute. See example:

 

 

 

Player1: W00t! Only 500 more jews to burn for 75 fm!

 

Player1:Yews*

 

 

 

Player1 would get muted because it would be offensive to people who are jewish, though it's a completely innocent typo because the keys j and y are so close with an ingame item/object named 'yew'.

[mmmcannibalism]

Untrue. Y and J are close to each other, and 'yews' can be burnt...... you know what I'm going to say next. Also with shortening what we write, saying something like "I bought 200k worth of gold" would be a bannable offense, even if it was meant to be buying 200k worth of gold ores to smelt into bars. Sometimes there is a double meaning in things that can warrant a mute and a non-mute. See example:

 

 

 

Player1: W00t! Only 500 more jews to burn for 75 fm!

 

Player1:Yews*

 

 

 

Player1 would get muted because it would be offensive to people who are jewish, though it's a completely innocent typo because the keys j and y are so close with an ingame item/object named 'yew'.

 

 

 

context is key here, if you say only 500 more jews to burn for 75 fm at least a few things you say within the minute frame reporting shows is going to show what you mean. Same type of thing with the gold situation

 

 

 

the main thing here is that a player can see that when you say you are "burning jews" that it was typo or truly offensive statement, and a good player mod will wait to see what you say after saying I just bought 200k gold; speaking for myself, you wouldnt get reported for saying I just bought 200k gold unless I saw another statement that suggested rwt.

[Guest]

I originally stopped posting after getting a little bored of the defensive little tykes who got so upset at the thought of the loss of their crown.

 

 

 

Quite an interesting post the RS site from Mod Hohbein, on volunteer mods on the 24th July says:

 

 

 

'Up until recently, one of the main criteria wed look for when inviting moderators would be how many reports theyve sent and how good those reports were. This had to change as, although weve found some absolutely brilliant players using these criteria in the past, given our new focus, we stand a better chance of finding suitable players if we look more broadly at the RS community'

 

 

 

Blows a hole in your efforts regarding it wasn't about the reporting. Well, here we have Jagex stating it was one of their 'main criteria'. Upon reading it further I think Jagex have woken up to the fact that just maybe they werent getting the right sort of people for this, which doesn't suprise me in the least, judging by the posts I've read on here.

 

 

 

Quite an interesting post actually as it looks like now there are going to be more mods, which will also cut in on your exclusivity. Awww shame. :lol:

 

 

 

Incidentally I've tried blocking mods on my ignore list and thankfully it does work! This solves a big problem in part as I can just add any mod I see to the ignore list. Hey presto a complete reduction in the babble on my screen. Woot! \

[Sheep Tails]

Hmm, I wonder. So far, I've met around 3 annoying, stuck-up or generally bad Player Mods. And I've been playing for years, seen many mods, too. The mods are just like normal players; there are the good, and the bad. The amount of bad, just like the player base, swamps the good. How often do you see a debate called "Annoying players - Newb or Noob? or something liek that?

 

 

 

I've just been lucky to not crash into any annoying mods yet. And they have as much right to barge into a conversation as a normal player. I've had plenty of conversations when a noob or random player broke in screaming "hiiiiiiii". Which is why there is private chat, and clan chat. If you don't care for broken conversations, then use a chat others can't get into. It's really the only way normal players can talk sanely without interruption.

 

 

 

Why should you consider a player mod differently? It's like talking to someone of a higher rank at a job, but from another completely unrelated part of the job. You think you have to obey their rank or whatever, but in reality in YOUR part of the job, they're the same as you.

[Guest]

Sticking mods on my ignore list has pretty much solved these issues now. Works a treat.

 

 

 

 

Why should you consider a player mod differently? It's like talking to someone of a higher rank at a job, but from another completely unrelated part of the job. You think you have to obey their rank or whatever, but in reality in YOUR part of the job, they're the same as you.

 

 

 

Now that Jagex have come clean on the issue of how the selection process worked its an easy thing to answer. I don't go around looking for people to report to enhance my status. Do you? If you were working in a job and colleagues were looking for anything to report you for, would you be happy? Of course not!

[Kiriyama]

Okay, so let me get this straight.

 

 

 

Based on a few mods you have met, you are judging them all? That's bull[cabbage].

 

 

 

Personally, I have had mostly positive experiences with mods. Though I have disagreed with others, and one was an immature [puncture].

 

 

 

Modship does not suddenly change a person, they were that type of person before they got the crown, and are the same person after they get it.

[Guest]

Okay, so let me get this straight.

 

 

 

Based on a few mods you have met, you are judging them all? That's bull[cabbage].

 

 

 

Personally, I have had mostly positive experiences with mods. Though I have disagreed with others, and one was an immature [puncture].

 

 

 

Modship does not suddenly change a person, they were that type of person before they got the crown, and are the same person after they get it.

 

 

 

Well Mr Sworddude it seems that the mods on here have been a little economical with the truth about their reporting habits for a start. I'm assuming you have read through the posts.

 

 

 

If what you say about modship changing a person is true, then going around looking for trouble in the first place smacks as a little undesirable don't you think?

 

 

 

You may well have had positive experiences and whether you like the company of mods is entirely your choice. Maybe my position will change when a new selection process kicks in for community based moderation instead of the self obsessed one we see now.

[Kiriyama]

Oh, I don't enjoy the company of mods, and haven't had positive experiences with them.

 

 

 

I do however, enjoy the company of the people who they are, and have had positive experiences with those people. I ignore the crown when I talk to them, hell, I barely notice it when I speak to someone ingame (I speak to her on MSN too, but that's another story, infact, she's why I'm up at this time).

 

 

 

You seem to be of the mind that a lot of reporting makes people a mod, is this true?

[Guest]

First of all, congratulations on your virtual relationship. I'm sure its very fulfilling.

 

 

 

Now, Obviously you havent read the previous page or read the forums on the rs website. I don't 'think', I know. A few mods have admitted it to me in game but the proof of the pudding is this from Jagex:

 

 

'Up until recently, one of the main criteria wed look for when inviting moderators would be how many reports theyve sent and how good those reports were. This had to change as, although weve found some absolutely brilliant players using these criteria in the past, given our new focus, we stand a better chance of finding suitable players if we look more broadly at the RS community'

 

 

 

Need I say more or did you never bother to read any of this or the forums on RS? Are the words of Jagex not good enough for you? I don't think you've quite realised yet how those players got that crown or their motives.

[Kiriyama]

Oh, nice [wagon]umption, I'm not in a realtionship, we're just good friends.

 

 

 

I notice you have glossed over one part though.

 

 

 

"main criteria wed look for when inviting moderators would be how many reports theyve sent and how good those reports were."

 

 

 

Notice that now? Reporting a lot isn't the only criteria, they have to be good quality reports, in other words, the bastards had to deserve it.

[Guest]

Hey, no worries. What you get up to in your personal life is entirely your affair. My bad as I'm used to real friendships, not virtual ones.

 

 

 

I don't think I glossed over anything. I take it you forgot the 'This had to change'? To get noticed players would be putting in a substantial amount of reports, which means to get any kind of quality they would have gone looking for trouble, not just hanging around and banging in the odd report. Did your mod friend not tell you this? And have you given any thought as to why Jagex have decided to make this move? Sorry again my bad for thinking common sense would have been a more wise idea instead of hovering over the report button for a little silver crown.

 

 

 

I would suggest you read the whole thing on the RS forums and how much support it has from players. You'll notice it a bit better when you clean the brown stuff from your nose.

 

 

 

You never know, judging by your choice of language your mod friends might return the favour to you. :D

[Iamdan]

It was always a quality over quantity thing, but this "sudden change" is more of a one that's been happening for a while. I guess jagex just didn't think/want to post it until now.

 

 

 

I mean the pmod forum stickies etc were changed a couple times a while ago, each time with more emphasis on being a role model etc, and they added a couple other big things a while back to the pmod system which I can't mention but can assure you points towards it being more 'community based' rather than reporting.

 

 

 

If it were based on nothing but reports around the time I became a pmod, there is no way I would have gotten an invite.

 

 

 

Sworddude198, you'll find he makes pretty much nothing but assumptions and he also tends ignore arguments and tries to retort them with more assumptions.

 

 

 

He ignored your argument that pretty much ended the discussion, and I'm sure I have brought it up once or twice earlier for him to ignore.