PMods - Purpose or Status?

[Alg]

My one response is this:

 

There were, at it's highest point, enough moderators in the team to fill several servers. You are saying that most are in it for the crown and generally do not deserve the position. Can you see why I, and others, are asking for your evidence to your claims?

 

 

 

Personal attacks on everyone that is not agreeing with you also really isn't a good way to debate... :wall:

[mmmcannibalism]

You seem to base this around some some sort of scientific theory about selection. Ok we will go with that and throw away the common sense element. Lets base it on stats instead -hmmmmmmmmmm well what can be measured by stats........I know how about reports and reporting accuracy? After all how can you measure how 'helpful' a player is by your science? I didnt know that was measurable.

 

 

 

I don't need to put words into your mouth as I've used your quotes to counter you. You do this all by yourself so I argue it and you accuse me of twisting it. Am I not saying what you want to hear? I personally dont have a problem with people attacking my views if they had a sound argument but in the end you conceded some (very) valid points I made. Posters saying 'my best mate is a mod and they fantastic so thats the law' are hardly going to make me take a point seriously are they?

 

 

 

And here we are...back to the crown...subjective...? Ok lets remove it. Can you hear the screams over the top of people saying they don't do it for the status.

 

 

 

You asked me to explain the selection process to you, since I dont work for jagex I cant know it. Your asking me a question that is impossible for me to answer properly. We could speculate on their selection process all we want and we agree it seems to be imperfect; that doesnt affect the problem with you asking me to explain it

 

 

 

If you quote someone and imply something they clearly didnt mean it is putting words in their mouth, I didnt accuse you of misquoting me

 

 

 

Even if a mod didnt care one bit about the status most of them would be upset because its like taking away a reward. If there were never crowns then I wouldnt be on the front lines fighting to add them, but taking away a reward from players who have shown good behavior and helped jagex through reporting rule breakers would just create ill will and lead to general discontent among them. Actually I have a good analogy, should we take away the title of doctor from everyone because some people get doctorates just to show off? Bit of a hyperbole but the point is relevant.

[Guest]

Langer

 

You say you have no doubt there are a lot of people who want modship for the status. That just adds to my arguement about the whole thing. You all know it, some acknowledge it but as I've repeated if that sort of status was taken away you know as well as I do most wouldn't bother. Whether you like me telling you or not, its a status symbol that as you say drives people.

 

 

 

Take skill capes. Before these how many people had 99 fletch or cook etc? It was nowhere near that many. Many miners were around 85 so that they could mine rune. Many got 80-90 craft to do glory/fury work. Then skillcapes came out and the explosion hit. Now you can't move because of them. Why? People love the status of owning one and letting players know they have one. Modship is no different in the status sense, but its the way players get it I don't like. Its not even about how long you've played or your experience. Its how well you kiss up.

 

 

 

I have to say that I agree with all of this, except I can't proclaim with 100% confidence that a majority of mods have this attitude, hence why I don't support the claim (not saying it's impossible or improbable). At first, I thought you were kinda ranting on the modship process, but I realise that you are mostly ranting on the motivation of getting modship status for the sake of having the status and proving it with a crown. I have to agree that from that point of view, all mods or mods wannabe are reporting for the wrong reasons. This can be applied to real life with politicians - getting into politics for the fame, publicity and big job as chairman when you retire from politics at 50 instead of being a politician for public service. It's really about personality, I have 99 slayer and it's considered one of the 5 most desired cape in-game..I bought it one month after getting 99 slayer and it sleeps in my bank because i'd much rather train combat with fire cape than a show-off cape. I also didn't bother with the ranging cape as it just uses space in my bank. If I were to be a mod, I'm pretty sure I'd be the exception in your point of view of modship.

 

 

 

My part in this debate is over, glad this was civilised and well written by the majority of posters.

 

 

 

Thanks for your honesty. And for the record slayer is THE cape of the game. Don't hide because you have the right to wear it. You didn't ride on the back of others to get it. Wear it with pride. :D

[Guest]

Pantim

 

Don't sit there a take a cheap shot. If you have an argument then by all means post. Don't hide behind everyone else please.

 

 

 

Quite hippocritical, but I won't comment on it.

 

 

 

I'm not hiding behind anyone, in fact, I think what has to be said has been said. If you don't accept the facts, don't cry and whine and just claim its all flame or "cheap shots". If you can't handle it, just yield.

 

 

 

Lmao yeild to what? At least come up with some good points that I have no answer to and I'll yeild. If not go back to obscurity. Simple!

[Guest]

You seem to base this around some some sort of scientific theory about selection. Ok we will go with that and throw away the common sense element. Lets base it on stats instead -hmmmmmmmmmm well what can be measured by stats........I know how about reports and reporting accuracy? After all how can you measure how 'helpful' a player is by your science? I didnt know that was measurable.

 

 

 

I don't need to put words into your mouth as I've used your quotes to counter you. You do this all by yourself so I argue it and you accuse me of twisting it. Am I not saying what you want to hear? I personally dont have a problem with people attacking my views if they had a sound argument but in the end you conceded some (very) valid points I made. Posters saying 'my best mate is a mod and they fantastic so thats the law' are hardly going to make me take a point seriously are they?

 

 

 

And here we are...back to the crown...subjective...? Ok lets remove it. Can you hear the screams over the top of people saying they don't do it for the status.

 

 

 

You asked me to explain the selection process to you, since I dont work for jagex I cant know it. Your asking me a question that is impossible for me to answer properly. We could speculate on their selection process all we want and we agree it seems to be imperfect; that doesnt affect the problem with you asking me to explain it

 

 

 

If you quote someone and imply something they clearly didnt mean it is putting words in their mouth, I didnt accuse you of misquoting me

 

If you feel this way, I apologise as that was certainly not my intention.

 

 

 

Even if a mod didnt care one bit about the status most of them would be upset because its like taking away a reward.

 

Bingo. Why get upset? Is it because you take the status? You've answered it for me. Most of them would be upset. Take away the power and they won't like it.

 

 

 

If there were never crowns then I wouldnt be on the front lines fighting to add them, but taking away a reward from players who have shown good behavior and helped jagex through reporting rule breakers would just create ill will and lead to general discontent among them.

 

Again, look at what you're saying to me. Its about the crown!

 

 

 

Actually I have a good analogy, should we take away the title of doctor from everyone because some people get doctorates just to show off? Bit of a hyperbole but the point is relevant.

 

No because a doctor helps people and works hard to get status, a mod requires reporting others to get status. Theres a big difference here. If you go to work or school then I'm sure you'll agree no-one likes the class or office snitch who rides on the back of others to curry favour.

[sees_all1]

 

No because a doctor helps people and works hard to get status, a mod requires reporting others to get status. Theres a big difference here. If you go to work or school then I'm sure you'll agree no-one likes the class or office snitch who rides on the back of others to curry favour.

 

 

 

A doctor helps people... Whaaaaa...?

 

Your title can be Dr. without actually being a physician. In fact, the majority of people with doctorates aren't physicians. Do you know what graduate school is? How about people with doctorates in chemistry, physics, psychology, education, engineering, etc. Do they all, automatically help people because of their status as doctors?

 

 

 

And who said a mod doesn't work hard to get status, and that reporting rule breakers doesn't help keep the game honest? As in, help the game in general, to keep it clean?

 

 

 

I've read some of your arguments, but making a blanket statement about ALL moderators not wanting to be moderators without their star is quite ignorant on your part. In fact, making any blanket statement about moderators is going to be wrought with exceptions.

 

 

 

I can tell you that when deciding who to be a moderator, jagex looks at the quality of the reports, not the quantity. Which also means that when they're considering someone to be a mod, they're not looking for someone who baits other players, just for free reports. In fact, people that bait others usually end up breaking the rules themselves, so they wouldn't become moderators.

 

 

 

I can also tell you if there was no such thing as modship, I would still report rule breakers like I do now. I don't report people to become a mod, I report people that clearly break the rules, and that make my gaming experience worse because of it.

 

When I was playing the Great Orb Project, there was an idiot fruitcake hugger. Its hard to deal with these people, but someone on my team called them something along the lines of f***less. Except the censor didn't catch that. I reported that player. When I reported that player, was I "snitching"? You tell me. I will say though that I hope that player gets muted, because there was nothing that warranted that type of language, and if they'd use it in small matters, imagine what they'd do in bigger matters. When I reported that player, did I think, "OOOO goody Jagex will make me a mod"? Absolutely not.

 

Do I want a silver star for doing that? Absolutely not.

 

 

 

Here's another question for you - What is the purpose of that silver star?

 

Its to let people know that, this person IS a mod, and that if they tell you to do something, you'd better do it, otherwise the consequences could be as swift as an instant 24hr mute.

 

It also prevents people from scamming others - You'd better give me 20k, because I'm a mod. The best they can do is say, "my other account" or "my best friend".

 

 

 

You say the only reason people want to be mods is for the silver star, and thus they don't serve a purpose. I say, regardless the reason for wanting to be a mod, they still serve a purpose.

[mmmcannibalism]

jr--you do realize what an analogy is right? saying the crown is analogous to the title doctor in no way implies modship is any thing near being a doctor.

 

 

 

The crown is needed because it shows who is a mod, if there was a more modest way of showing modship I would totally approve because its not the crown thats important, its being able to tell who is a mod and who isnt.

 

 

 

Im not concerned with any shiny toys mods get, I am however annoyed by your tendency to make sweeping generalizations that show mods in a bad light.

[Guest]

jr--you do realize what an analogy is right? saying the crown is analogous to the title doctor in no way implies modship is any thing near being a doctor.

 

My apologies if I've misread your post and confused doctor and a general doctorate. If you're talking about the fact that someone may have a doctorate then lets look at that shall we? They study for years to get to that level. I think someone like that can be afforded a little arrogance if they've worked so hard. Do they do it off anyone elses back? No!

 

 

The crown is needed because it shows who is a mod, if there was a more modest way of showing modship I would totally approve because its not the crown thats important, its being able to tell who is a mod and who isnt.

 

You're right the crown isn't important. You know as well as I do that most mods would be crying into their report button if that went. Now why is that then? Most wouldn't be interested in it, thats why! See my Skill cape comments I said to Langer in a previous post.

 

 

 

 

Im not concerned with any shiny toys mods get, I am however annoyed by your tendency to make sweeping generalizations that show mods in a bad light.

 

Obviously you're not a mod otherwise you'd be concerned about the crown. Does it upset you that I'm questioning it and that I don't consider anything noble about getting status by reporting others? I don't really consider that a decent thing to do. Lol and see my previous comment for the 'shiny toys'. Take the toys away and they'll spit their dummy out the pram. If you're unhappy with my generalisations then that's up to you. Do what you always do then and follow the flock with the others.

[Guest]

 

No because a doctor helps people and works hard to get status, a mod requires reporting others to get status. Theres a big difference here. If you go to work or school then I'm sure you'll agree no-one likes the class or office snitch who rides on the back of others to curry favour.

 

 

 

 

 

A doctor helps people... Whaaaaa...?

 

Your title can be Dr. without actually being a physician. In fact, the majority of people with doctorates aren't physicians. Do you know what graduate school is? How about people with doctorates in chemistry, physics, psychology, education, engineering, etc. Do they all, automatically help people because of their status as doctors?

 

 

 

I misread that post (see previous) but with this comment you're really clutching at straws.

 

 

 

 

And who said a mod doesn't work hard to get status, and that reporting rule breakers doesn't help keep the game honest? As in, help the game in general, to keep it clean?

 

 

 

This is a joke right? Where is the hard work in reporting people. The majority of players in RS play the game and some players have off days and have the odd moment. Going looking for trouble to enhance your status is more cynical. In most cases common sense could and should prevail instead of hovvering over the report button.

 

 

 

 

I've read some of your arguments, but making a blanket statement about ALL moderators not wanting to be moderators without their star is quite ignorant on your part. In fact, making any blanket statement about moderators is going to be wrought with exceptions.

 

 

 

Only the diehard mods would give a toss about modship if it didn't make them look any different to any other player. See the skillcape post I made to Langer.

 

 

 

 

I can tell you that when deciding who to be a moderator, jagex looks at the quality of the reports, not the quantity. Which also means that when they're considering someone to be a mod, they're not looking for someone who baits other players, just for free reports. In fact, people that bait others usually end up breaking the rules themselves, so they wouldn't become moderators.

 

 

 

I see, so you work for Jagex then to know this is the gospel truth. After all people on here accuse me of making things up. Most go looking for reports in busy worlds. Obviously you'll have read the previous posts about world 2 so I need go no further.

 

 

 

I can also tell you if there was no such thing as modship, I would still report rule breakers like I do now. I don't report people to become a mod, I report people that clearly break the rules, and that make my gaming experience worse because of it.

 

How many 'serious', and I mean serious rule breaches do you see? Its rare I see them now but maybe you're a bit more sensitive and more easily offended than I am. Most of the rule breaches are kids who get a bit macho because they have something to prove as its puberty time. Its easily resolved with some common sense chat (Asking them how puberty is, and you have nothing to prove works wonders!). If you've had a really bad day and you're feeling ultra sensitive then use of ignore button.

 

 

 

 

When I was playing the Great Orb Project, there was an idiot fruitcake hugger.

 

 

 

Considering how high and mighty you claim to be and how dishonourable I am for challenging mods, calling players names like this does not help at all. If you called him this in game then you're baiting. Don't profess to be a goody goody on one hand then make up your own rules with another.

 

 

 

 

Its hard to deal with these people, but someone on my team called them something along the lines of f***less. Except the censor didn't catch that. I reported that player. When I reported that player, was I "snitching"? You tell me. I will say though that I hope that player gets muted, because there was nothing that warranted that type of language, and if they'd use it in small matters, imagine what they'd do in bigger matters. When I reported that player, did I think, "OOOO goody Jagex will make me a mod"? Absolutely not.

 

Do I want a silver star for doing that? Absolutely not.

 

 

 

 

On the contrary you're quite correct to report this, providing you weren't baiting him at the time. This is what I would call a serious breach but how often does this really happen? Very rare! Most reports are for things that could be cleared up with a simple amount of common sense. Unfortunately many players have a bad dose of sensitivity and will report for anything.

 

 

 

 

Here's another question for you - What is the purpose of that silver star?

 

Its to let people know that, this person IS a mod, and that if they tell you to do something, you'd better do it, otherwise the consequences could be as swift as an instant 24hr mute.

 

 

I'm well versed in mods making threats thank you! You talking the idea of everything being hunky dory and players being noble. Well, this is the real world I'm afraid and I don't go for this role of modship as an honourable thing. Read previous posts about the screaming you'll hear if you remove the crown. Mods should be silent. We do not need to know if a player is a mod. They can mute very easily so just do it!.

 

 

 

 

It also prevents people from scamming others - You'd better give me 20k, because I'm a mod. The best they can do is say, "my other account" or "my best friend".

 

 

 

 

Shows a lack of common sense of players. Personally I'd let players make their own mistakes. They sure as hell won't make that mistake again. Jagex often states the game is not aimed at kids, so I tend to give players more credit than you do.

 

 

 

 

You say the only reason people want to be mods is for the silver star, and thus they don't serve a purpose. I say, regardless the reason for wanting to be a mod, they still serve a purpose.

 

 

 

No they don't.

[mmmcannibalism]

your still missing the point of an analogy, its about a similair situation not an exact equivilancy. A doctorate is clearly harder to get then a modship on runescape, I wasnt trying to say otherwise

 

 

 

most mods would be perfectly content with a more modest way of showing that they are mods, for the sake of practicality it has to be visible or we get the "im a mod now give me money or I mute you" scam again.

 

 

 

before this last part, sweeping generalizations are inappropriate as a proof of your argument because it lets you prove your point by saying its correct. For instance, bob is an idiot because I met a guy named bob in high school and he was an idiot is non sequitur, its flawed logic. You saying all mods are bad from a few personal experiences is the same as the above example just replace bob with mod and idiot with egotist

 

 

 

I have to be blunt now

 

 

 

remember when I mentioned my best friend was a mod earlier? That was a bit of a lie, I actually am a mod and earned it through reporting of the various things such as trust games and mostly other common scams along with occasional macro hunts. Did I think about the possibility of getting a crown as I did this, yes I did. Did I report everyone I saw no, did I report for the sake of getting a crown also no. As I reported my mindset was something around the lines of "yay another scammer/macro thats going to be dealt with". I wasnt going around hunting people trying to report them for saying wtf or poo, I was reporting things that were actually a real problem in runescape.

 

 

 

edit--------

 

 

 

I see, so you work for Jagex then to know this is the gospel truth. After all people on here accuse me of making things up. Most go looking for reports in busy worlds. Obviously you'll have read the previous posts about world 2 so I need go no further.

 

 

 

some things to point out about this

 

 

 

a. you tried to make me explain there process when i couldnt so dont complain when someone does

 

 

 

b. exactly once sentence after complaining about someone assuming something you make the blatant assumption

Most go looking for reports in busy worlds

.

 

 

 

I think we call that hypocrisy

[Guest]

your still missing the point of an analogy, its about a similair situation not an exact equivilancy. A doctorate is clearly harder to get then a modship on runescape, I wasnt trying to say otherwise

 

I'm quite aware of what an analogy is. Yours was a poor example because they are so dissimilar. You tried to get clever with it but it just didn't work.

 

 

 

 

most mods would be perfectly content with a more modest way of showing that they are mods, for the sake of practicality it has to be visible or we get the "im a mod now give me money or I mute you" scam again.

 

 

 

 

You took this from the previous poster, and I've already answered it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

before this last part, sweeping generalizations are inappropriate as a proof of your argument because it lets you prove your point by saying its correct. For instance, bob is an idiot because I met a guy named bob in high school and he was an idiot is non sequitur, its flawed logic. You saying all mods are bad from a few personal experiences is the same as the above example just replace bob with mod and idiot with egotist

 

Poor example. You've seen the amount of posts I've put about the star so I need go no further.

 

 

 

 

I have to be blunt now

 

 

 

remember when I mentioned my best friend was a mod earlier? That was a bit of a lie, I actually am a mod and earned it through reporting of the various things such as trust games and mostly other common scams along with occasional macro hunts.

 

Oh wow you're a mod... can you add me plz.....oo sorry I nearly fell into the flock then.

 

 

 

 

Did I think about the possibility of getting a crown as I did this, yes I did.

 

 

Thank you. You've just told me what I've been telling people all along!

 

 

 

 

Did I report everyone I saw no, did I report for the sake of getting a crown also no.

 

Don't contradict yourself now.

 

 

 

 

As I reported my mindset was something around the lines of "yay another scammer/macro thats going to be dealt with". I wasnt going around hunting people trying to report them for saying wtf or poo, I was reporting things that were actually a real problem in runescape.

 

So this was not about helping people, as the party line says. You''ve gained this with reports. Well, you've already been very economical with the truth in a number of posts, judging by your answers.

 

 

 

So was it world 2 then? Lmao its no wonder you've been so tetchy about this subject. If this is the case and you are what you say you are, then shed us some light on the subject of how the system works.

 

 

 

What I love most about this is mods say 'oo I only report bots/scammers but I don't report players'. Is this what you are told to say?

 

 

 

As bots and scams are now minimal, what is your purpose?

[Guest]

edit--------

 

 

 

I see, so you work for Jagex then to know this is the gospel truth. After all people on here accuse me of making things up. Most go looking for reports in busy worlds. Obviously you'll have read the previous posts about world 2 so I need go no further.

 

 

 

 

some things to point out about this

 

 

 

a. you tried to make me explain there process when i couldnt so dont complain when someone does

 

 

So you can't put your money where your mouth is?

 

 

 

 

b. exactly once sentence after complaining about someone assuming something you make the blatant assumption

Most go looking for reports in busy worlds

.

 

These were the words of your fellow mods. Not just the one. I've posted about this before.

 

 

 

I think we call that hypocrisy

 

No, I think hypocrisy is where you're all sweetness and smiles to players who kiss up to you, but you'd turn on them at a moments notice.

[mmmcannibalism]

you can try to fragment my posts and misconstrue what I said all you want it doesnt support your point. You can say everything I say is proof of your point, it isnt helping you. Honestly, you can attempt to throw shrouded insults all your want, your just proving the flaws in your own argument.

 

 

 

My analogy is plenty appropriate, if I compared modship to modship it would be a pointless analogy no?

 

 

 

Saying all mods report hunt is an inappropriate generalization, some of us like myself report (sever) rule breakers for the love of the game. Yes, after jagex destroyed the macro industry the point of mods has lessened, that doesnt make them unneccesary. Runescape still has plenty of players looking for advice, plenty of severe trouble where an instant mute can be extremely beneficial to the community.

 

 

 

Show me one bit of proof that most mods go report hunting, its a blatant lie. At times, mods macro hunt(entirely different since macroing is a serious offense not a trivial matter) and at times mods hang out in high traffic areas to monitor activity and watch for trouble.

 

 

 

Finally, when you respond to this post try actually respond to the whole post instead of taking a few words at a time to remove context and trying to misrepresent what I am saying. Once you have to debate what Im saying and not a strawman representation of it you will realize your wrong.

[Alg]

I'm remembering a time when, to prove a point, the then-owner of the BSC clan chat removed all user ranks, including his own. This was in response to complaints about the ranked users. Half of the regulars joined in an unregulated spam-fest, and the others left the chat until it was changed (which was either later that day or the next).

 

The point was proven well, I have yet to hear any complaints against the ranked users from the regulars that were there then.

 

 

 

If you can't get the parallell, it's another purpose mods serve. In my experience with the game, I have noticed that if players can break the rules with little or no risk of being caught, they probably will. You only need to look at the amount of throwaway rulebreaking accounts that there are in free worlds, the "µ" glitch this week, and even how many sites are made promoting bots and hacks.

 

The prescence of moderators and their abilities can at least act as a figuregead against them. The average player doesn't truly know what a moderator is, so their supposed powers keep them from rulebreaking, and the thought that one could join them keeps them within the rules (Because from my experience, reporting everything that moves does not = mod status).

[sees_all1]

 

 

I can tell you that when deciding who to be a moderator, jagex looks at the quality of the reports, not the quantity. Which also means that when they're considering someone to be a mod, they're not looking for someone who baits other players, just for free reports. In fact, people that bait others usually end up breaking the rules themselves, so they wouldn't become moderators.

 

 

 

I see, so you work for Jagex then to know this is the gospel truth. After all people on here accuse me of making things up. Most go looking for reports in busy worlds. Obviously you'll have read the previous posts about world 2 so I need go no further.

 

 

Quit being an idiot about this - if you ever talk to the town crier NPC, you'll see this is exactly what it says. I'm quoting Jagex on this one, you're quoting no one.

 

Quit trying to put the burden of proof on us, just because your logic is flawed and your conclusions are full of holes.

 

 

 

 

How many 'serious', and I mean serious rule breaches do you see? Its rare I see them now but maybe you're a bit more sensitive and more easily offended than I am. Most of the rule breaches are kids who get a bit macho because they have something to prove as its puberty time. Its easily resolved with some common sense chat (Asking them how puberty is, and you have nothing to prove works wonders!). If you've had a really bad day and you're feeling ultra sensitive then use of ignore button.

 

I just gave you one of many examples. In any event, that person getting a mute right then and there would have been appropriate, and would have served the purpose of a player mod quite well.

 

 

 

 

When I was playing the Great Orb Project, there was an idiot fruitcake hugger.

 

Considering how high and mighty you claim to be and how dishonourable I am for challenging mods, calling players names like this does not help at all. If you called him this in game then you're baiting. Don't profess to be a goody goody on one hand then make up your own rules with another.

 

For everyone else who didn't see this, this flaw in persuasion is called argumentum ad hominem. The only reason I said "idiot fruitcake hugger" is because that's how I felt about this individual that was cussed out. You're also taking what I said out of context. Why did I have to state that - everyone was a bit peeved at this individual, but here was the only person to cuss them out.

 

 

 

On the contrary you're quite correct to report this, providing you weren't baiting him at the time. This is what I would call a serious breach but how often does this really happen? Very rare! Most reports are for things that could be cleared up with a simple amount of common sense. Unfortunately many players have a bad dose of sensitivity and will report for anything.

 

... "a bad dose of sensitivity" - is that why we report people? Because we're too sensitive? No, its because someone broke the rules, and the right thing to do is report them.

 

 

 

 

I'm well versed in mods making threats thank you! You talking the idea of everything being hunky dory and players being noble. Well, this is the real world I'm afraid and I don't go for this role of modship as an honourable thing. Read previous posts about the screaming you'll hear if you remove the crown. Mods should be silent. We do not need to know if a player is a mod. They can mute very easily so just do it!.

 

 

Quit breaking my points up and taking what I've said out of context. It gets really annoying. Whenever I have a point, it contains one idea. I format my posts so there isn't a wall of text, and whitespace breaks up points. When you break an idea down, it means you're not getting what I'm saying and you're just looking for the sound bit to "nail me on" so you can proclaim that you're automagically right.

 

 

 

 

You say the only reason people want to be mods is for the silver star, and thus they don't serve a purpose. I say, regardless the reason for wanting to be a mod, they still serve a purpose.

 

No they don't.

 

Does muting someone who floods/spams the chatbox with @@@@@ make the game better for everyone? How about muting someone who uses autotalk? Or what about reporting scammers, and other rule breakers, and have their reports go through faster because Jagex knows they're accurate? I've given examples where Pmods serve a purpose, so you can't accurately make that generic statement anymore.

[mmmcannibalism]

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I can tell you that when deciding who to be a moderator, jagex looks at the quality of the reports, not the quantity. Which also means that when they're considering someone to be a mod, they're not looking for someone who baits other players, just for free reports. In fact, people that bait others usually end up breaking the rules themselves, so they wouldn't become moderators.

 

 

 

I see, so you work for Jagex then to know this is the gospel truth. After all people on here accuse me of making things up. Most go looking for reports in busy worlds. Obviously you'll have read the previous posts about world 2 so I need go no further.

 

 

Quit being an idiot about this - if you ever talk to the town crier NPC, you'll see this is exactly what it says. I'm quoting Jagex on this one, you're quoting no one.

 

Quit trying to put the burden of proof on us, just because your logic is flawed and your conclusions are full of holes.

 

 

 

 

How many 'serious', and I mean serious rule breaches do you see? Its rare I see them now but maybe you're a bit more sensitive and more easily offended than I am. Most of the rule breaches are kids who get a bit macho because they have something to prove as its puberty time. Its easily resolved with some common sense chat (Asking them how puberty is, and you have nothing to prove works wonders!). If you've had a really bad day and you're feeling ultra sensitive then use of ignore button.

 

I just gave you one of many examples. In any event, that person getting a mute right then and there would have been appropriate, and would have served the purpose of a player mod quite well.

 

 

 

 

When I was playing the Great Orb Project, there was an idiot fruitcake hugger.

 

Considering how high and mighty you claim to be and how dishonourable I am for challenging mods, calling players names like this does not help at all. If you called him this in game then you're baiting. Don't profess to be a goody goody on one hand then make up your own rules with another.

 

For everyone else who didn't see this, this flaw in persuasion is called argumentum ad hominem. The only reason I said "idiot fruitcake hugger" is because that's how I felt about this individual that was cussed out. You're also taking what I said out of context. Why did I have to state that - everyone was a bit peeved at this individual, but here was the only person to cuss them out.

 

 

 

On the contrary you're quite correct to report this, providing you weren't baiting him at the time. This is what I would call a serious breach but how often does this really happen? Very rare! Most reports are for things that could be cleared up with a simple amount of common sense. Unfortunately many players have a bad dose of sensitivity and will report for anything.

 

... "a bad dose of sensitivity" - is that why we report people? Because we're too sensitive? No, its because someone broke the rules, and the right thing to do is report them.

 

 

 

 

I'm well versed in mods making threats thank you! You talking the idea of everything being hunky dory and players being noble. Well, this is the real world I'm afraid and I don't go for this role of modship as an honourable thing. Read previous posts about the screaming you'll hear if you remove the crown. Mods should be silent. We do not need to know if a player is a mod. They can mute very easily so just do it!.

 

 

Quit breaking my points up and taking what I've said out of context. It gets really annoying. Whenever I have a point, it contains one idea. I format my posts so there isn't a wall of text, and whitespace breaks up points. When you break an idea down, it means you're not getting what I'm saying and you're just looking for the sound bit to "nail me on" so you can proclaim that you're automagically right.

 

 

 

 

You say the only reason people want to be mods is for the silver star, and thus they don't serve a purpose. I say, regardless the reason for wanting to be a mod, they still serve a purpose.

 

No they don't.

 

Does muting someone who floods/spams the chatbox with @@@@@ make the game better for everyone? How about muting someone who uses autotalk? Or what about reporting scammers, and other rule breakers, and have their reports go through faster because Jagex knows they're accurate? I've given examples where Pmods serve a purpose, so you can't accurately make that generic statement anymore.

[/hide]

 

 

 

my thoughts exactly

[AlexDT]

- OP has bad experience with a mod. This annoys OP.

 

- OP encounters like 10 other mods.

 

- OP has bad experience with the 12th mod he encounters. WELL THAT'S JUST UNACCEPTABLE, PEOPLE MUST BE ALERTED TO THIS PLAGUE OF RUDENESS AND POWER-ABUSE! TO THE FORUMS, IN THE NAME OF JUSTICE AND EQUALITY!

 

- OP writes post riddled with completely immeasurable contentions and extraordinarily broad generalizations.

 

- People disagree with the OP. This angers him. He starts to argue in circles, using logical fallacies and ad hominem attacks.

 

- I write this post.

 

- OP points out that this post holds no actual argumentative value.

 

- I point out that I haven't addressed the original topic because it was inherently flawed to begin with.

 

- OP contends that I am a pseudo-intellectual egotist.

 

- I agree, but remind OP of his past use of ad hominem arguments.

 

- Anything past this point is sort of hazy.

[Owned_Nex]

Pantim

 

Don't sit there a take a cheap shot. If you have an argument then by all means post. Don't hide behind everyone else please.

 

 

 

Quite hippocritical, but I won't comment on it.

 

 

 

I'm not hiding behind anyone, in fact, I think what has to be said has been said. If you don't accept the facts, don't cry and whine and just claim its all flame or "cheap shots". If you can't handle it, just yield.

 

 

 

Lmao yeild to what? At least come up with some good points that I have no answer to and I'll yeild. If not go back to obscurity. Simple!

 

 

 

Here are my "obscurities" I managed to hide them as the first post.

 

 

 

[hide=Here]

 

Yeah, alot of people do want to be mods for the little crown. But I think that is encouraging players to report for a better reason. Now, most people in the game are -10 years old. The game is aimed at kids. They wouldn't care about reporting if they didn't "get" something back. IF its just false reporting, then it will usually be descovered unless it is fairly complex. A little bit of rule breaking IS rule breaking.

 

 

 

The littering of mod chat is unfortunate, but for the most part people DO play with chat on. They don't want people to turn chat off, and claim they heard nothing.

 

 

 

Some mods will just block or teleport. That is because they've been asked the same questions by hundreds if not thousands of players. and don't want to talk with little kids.

 

 

 

Mods sometimes do feel powerful. Don't be intimidated, since if they mtue you for no reason, you can just report them and complain

 

 

 

The botting issue has not been affected by the trade limit or mods.

[/hide]

[Guest]

you can try to fragment my posts and misconstrue what I said all you want it doesnt support your point. You can say everything I say is proof of your point, it isnt helping you. Honestly, you can attempt to throw shrouded insults all your want, your just proving the flaws in your own argument.

 

 

 

Thats because I answer EVERY point in YOUR post. I don't sit here and be selective over what I answer, unlike your posts. You haven't had much of an answer over your last 3, hence you've just waffled on. The only new thing you've brought is you're a mod. ooo scary. Oh, and if I wanted to insult you I really would.

 

 

 

I think somewhere in this you're trying to be clever but unfortunately for you, you're not up against some kid on RS, and you can't mute me for it either so its not really working very well for you. Its your hole, you dig further. I don't mind :lol:

 

 

 

 

My analogy is plenty appropriate, if I compared modship to modship it would be a pointless analogy no?

 

 

No it was a rubbish analogy as they are completely different. I think you have difficulty in understanding this.

 

 

 

 

Saying all mods report hunt is an inappropriate generalization, some of us like myself report (sever) rule breakers for the love of the game. Yes, after jagex destroyed the macro industry the point of mods has lessened, that doesnt make them unneccesary. Runescape still has plenty of players looking for advice, plenty of severe trouble where an instant mute can be extremely beneficial to the community.

 

 

 

 

Lol this is a classic example of how a mod shouldn't be. You even have trouble conceding any points. All you can say is 'ooo bots, severe trouble makers, advice'. Ok I'll make the points plain and simple:

 

 

 

* Bots - Now very rare. Not because of you but trade limits and G.E.

 

* Trouble makers - Few and far between. You didn't read the common sense bit I wrote in a previous post, so I can only presume you don't agree that use of common sense is more appropriate.

 

* Advice - Players can ask anyone for advice. Its just you love the sound of your own voices (text on screen context).

 

 

 

 

Show me one bit of proof that most mods go report hunting, its a blatant lie. At times, mods macro hunt(entirely different since macroing is a serious offense not a trivial matter) and at times mods hang out in high traffic areas to monitor activity and watch for trouble.

 

 

Simple. If you'd read previous posts you'd have seen the comments I'd made about your own kind who gave the game away. I'll let you read back on that one. Considering theres hardly any macroing going on these days, and that anyone can report it, I'd say you guys were practically redundant. Unless you're 'watching for trouble' as in you're going looking for it!! Just confirms all my suspicions.

 

 

 

 

Finally, when you respond to this post try actually respond to the whole post instead of taking a few words at a time to remove context and trying to misrepresent what I am saying. Once you have to debate what Im saying and not a strawman representation of it you will realize your wrong.

 

 

 

Whats up, you don't like your arguments being ripped apart? I answer all your posts and I don't modify anything you say. These are your words I'm using, and considering its not the spoken word, I can't do very much to change its context. I would say you're just a bit peeved! I've debated every point you have. If you don't want to look stupid then at least debate instead of giving me your holier than thou attitude. But then, your atttitude really illustrates that of a typical mod so thanks for proving the theory.

[Guest]

- OP has bad experience with a mod. This annoys OP.

 

 

Plural sense please!

 

 

- OP encounters like 10 other mods.

 

 

Nope, its quite a few more than that.

 

 

 

 

- OP has bad experience with the 12th mod he encounters. WELL THAT'S JUST UNACCEPTABLE, PEOPLE MUST BE ALERTED TO THIS PLAGUE OF RUDENESS AND POWER-ABUSE! TO THE FORUMS, IN THE NAME OF JUSTICE AND EQUALITY!

 

 

 

 

Ummm....No not quite, you are another who can't seem to read.

 

 

 

 

- OP writes post riddled with completely immeasurable contentions and extraordinarily broad generalizations.

 

 

 

 

Love this part. I love it that people can't actually address the status issues. You just carry on rambling......

 

 

 

 

- People disagree with the OP. This angers him. He starts to argue in circles, using logical fallacies and ad hominem attacks.

 

 

No I use facts and provoke debate about why people do it. When I point this out posters can't seem to answer it. Just like you =D>

 

 

 

 

- I write this post.

 

- OP points out that this post holds no actual argumentative value.

 

- I point out that I haven't addressed the original topic because it was inherently flawed to begin with.

 

 

Absolutely correct. Because you havent.

 

 

 

 

- OP contends that I am a pseudo-intellectual egotist.

 

- I agree, but remind OP of his past use of ad hominem arguments.

 

- Anything past this point is sort of hazy.

 

 

I wouldn't go that far. You've just illustrated a point that those who are pro-mod read what they want to read.

[Guest]

Pantim

 

Don't sit there a take a cheap shot. If you have an argument then by all means post. Don't hide behind everyone else please.

 

 

 

Quite hippocritical, but I won't comment on it.

 

 

 

I'm not hiding behind anyone, in fact, I think what has to be said has been said. If you don't accept the facts, don't cry and whine and just claim its all flame or "cheap shots". If you can't handle it, just yield.

 

 

 

Lmao yeild to what? At least come up with some good points that I have no answer to and I'll yeild. If not go back to obscurity. Simple!

 

 

 

Here are my "obscurities" I managed to hide them as the first post.

 

 

 

[hide=Here]

 

Yeah, alot of people do want to be mods for the little crown. But I think that is encouraging players to report for a better reason. Now, most people in the game are -10 years old. The game is aimed at kids. They wouldn't care about reporting if they didn't "get" something back. IF its just false reporting, then it will usually be descovered unless it is fairly complex. A little bit of rule breaking IS rule breaking.

 

 

 

The littering of mod chat is unfortunate, but for the most part people DO play with chat on. They don't want people to turn chat off, and claim they heard nothing.

 

 

 

Some mods will just block or teleport. That is because they've been asked the same questions by hundreds if not thousands of players. and don't want to talk with little kids.

 

 

 

Mods sometimes do feel powerful. Don't be intimidated, since if they mtue you for no reason, you can just report them and complain

 

 

 

The botting issue has not been affected by the trade limit or mods.

[/hide]

 

 

 

Thats your case??? No wonder you hide!

[Guest]

I'm remembering a time when, to prove a point, the then-owner of the BSC clan chat removed all user ranks, including his own. This was in response to complaints about the ranked users. Half of the regulars joined in an unregulated spam-fest, and the others left the chat until it was changed (which was either later that day or the next).

 

The point was proven well, I have yet to hear any complaints against the ranked users from the regulars that were there then.

 

 

 

If you can't get the parallell, it's another purpose mods serve. In my experience with the game, I have noticed that if players can break the rules with little or no risk of being caught, they probably will. You only need to look at the amount of throwaway rulebreaking accounts that there are in free worlds, the "µ" glitch this week, and even how many sites are made promoting bots and hacks.

 

The prescence of moderators and their abilities can at least act as a figuregead against them. The average player doesn't truly know what a moderator is, so their supposed powers keep them from rulebreaking, and the thought that one could join them keeps them within the rules (Because from my experience, reporting everything that moves does not = mod status).

 

 

 

At last a post that is intelligent. The first couple of paragraphs are a nice point.

 

 

 

Your last part of your post is all well and good in a rose tinted spectacle world. If were up to me, and I had a choice who would be a mod then I'd chose those players who do the common sense thing very well. Rough diamonds as I would call them. Play in the spirit of the game and use a little nous when the time needs it. Better that than the sickly sweet, I-do-nothing-wrong-i'm-as-good-as-gold,oo-did-you-fart?,hey-don't-you-dare-disagree-with-me kind of mods I meet. If you are going to do it properly then maybe its time the selection process was changed.

 

 

 

I do not disagree with the second half of your post. What my argument is, is that the mod thing has become a status symbol, and this is my point. There are a small minority of mods who may well be honourable, common sense players who could deal with the things you talk about. They don't need a star to mute someone, guide etc. There would be more fear in players if they did not know others were mods. After all, if you don't know, then why risk a rule break?

 

 

 

Unfortunately it isn't like that as I still stand by my 'modship for the status symbol argument'.

[mmmcannibalism]

So to clarify, your point is that mods are all egotists because you say so, we arent needed because you dont think theres enough rule breaking, and mods talk just to hear themselves and not be helpful because you say so?

 

 

 

Really, you can claim as much as you want its not exactly impressive. I already explained that the need for mods is less then it is at one time because im interested in reality not playing the your wrong because im going to repeat myself game you seem to enjoy. Just because there is a lessened need doesnt mean there isnt a need. There are possibly quite a few mods that are unworthy of it, I already said they should be dealth with. Your trying to say all mods should get thrown out with the bad because you dont like them and its not a logical argument.

 

 

 

All police officers arent good we keep the system, all teachers arent good we keep them as a system. Since I know you are going to try and discredit my analogy lets try something as close as possible. Not all people that earn a minor college scholorship are worthy of it, do we stop scholorships? No, because knee jerk overreactions cause a much bigger problem

 

 

 

In conclusion, I already addressed that there are bad mods that should be removed from modship. If we remove all mods runescape will lose something that is very beneficial to the overall community. We can throw the baby out with the bathwater or we could actually suggest jagex improve on their selection process. If jagex were to monitor their selection a little better most problems with mods would severly dimish if not disappear entirely. Most of your arguments border on semantics, you can take each sentence of my argument and try to point out some ghost flaw in it or you can actually address what Im saying. Once you start debating actual points instead of just saying mods are egotists you will realize you have very little to stand on.

 

 

 

Finally, Ive already conceded what pieces of your original post(s) were correct(ie the occurences of bad mods and that there is less need for them) and I really dont need to hear you ask me to say it again every post. Im interested in actually debating the need of mods not every single detail of your hatred of mods.

 

 

 

edit--breaking down the series post just supports the belief you cant debate actual points. You cant address the accuracy of the whole post so you break each line down in a vain attempt to look smart. We have caught on that you cant address a whole theory and at best attack the wording of a sentence or at worst make up a meaning to suit your argument.

[Alg]

Then maybe the idea would be to keep the status, but change the symbol. Ideally, the point of a moderator is to give a 2 day mute to serious rulebreakers, and for priority reports otherwise. Having certain players able to do that is still necessary, there still are advertisers, spammers, etc. That the trade limits did nothing to, but allowing it available to everyone would lead to the kind of abuse you accuse moderators of.

 

 

 

The downside is that without any symbol, it would be impossible to tell who is a moderator and who isn't. There has to be something to prevent players from claiming they are moderators when they aren't.

[mmmcannibalism]

Then maybe the idea would be to keep the status, but change the symbol. Ideally, the point of a moderator is to give a 2 day mute to serious rulebreakers, and for priority reports otherwise. Having certain players able to do that is still necessary, there still are advertisers, spammers, etc. That the trade limits did nothing to, but allowing it available to everyone would lead to the kind of abuse you accuse moderators of.

 

 

 

The downside is that without any symbol, it would be impossible to tell who is a moderator and who isn't. There has to be something to prevent players from claiming they are moderators when they aren't.

 

 

 

agreed, perhaps a silver bar in front of the name(similair to military uniform stripe). If it looked formal it would indicate its purpose but would be less envied since a crown is symbolic in its own right.