PMods - Purpose or Status?

[Sir_Kurity]

You can be only in it for the status and still be a good Pmod.

 

 

 

Anyone can report and not swear.

[Erewhon2]

Well if it doesn't affect their behavior, I don't see the problem. If you're a good moderator, why does it matter what made you want to become a moderator? Anyway, there's a difference between "enjoying the status" and "only in it for the status."

 

 

 

Actually to me it does matter than anyone would 'want' to be a moderator on a virtual world as I stated on the previous page:

 

erewhon2: I would still challenge you....why do you want to be a pmod? To help people? This is a game! Anyone can help others, its not like going to see a social worker and you need an appointment to see the specialist, and there are good fan sites including this one as well as an excellent manual on the RS site itself.

 

So my particular view on this thread stands.....it is only about status.

 

 

 

I should thank troacctid for this particular quote below, as it certainly reinforces everything I have been saying, in spite of it starting with; its about other than status.

 

 

 

 

Randox talked about what the crown means besides status.

 

randox wrote:

 

What the crown actualy is, is an ID badge. It basicly says that for all things rule based, this player actualy knows what there talking about.

 

 

 

Many mods however, see the crown not as a symbol, but as a tool. The crown goes a long way to difusing a tense situation if the mod can choose the right words. It can distract people so well that a political conversation thats about to turn into a verbal nuclear war will stop dead in its tracks. The crown can call BS on scammers.

 

 

 

erewhon2: And no pmod can be everywhere at once, if you happen to be in the right place at the right time, you may be able to 'mute' someone, what happens the rest of the time? Where I spend most of my time can get very busy, I very rarely see a pmod there. People can either put someone on 'ignore' or they can report them.....ignoring them leaves the choice to the players and is not therefore 'patronising' in that the pmod apparently knows best. As for scams, they can be reported by any player.

 

 

 

And randox goes on......

 

But the crown is also cursed. In pvp, the crown is basicly a huge bullseye sign. People drop what there doing to go kill the mod. People will hate mods because they see them as authority figures, so the crown attracts loads of harrasment to it. It hinders normal conversation. Finding people who can actualy talk to a mod as if there was no crown is not a common event, instead you get flamed, questioned, and your own personal army of suck-ups. And then theres the questions. Its a wonder mods don't all mute anyone who asks: Whats a mod or How did you get modded or Whats it like to be a mod. If a mod [blocked due to abuse] off the handle after that sort of question its probably related to their being asked that question 50 times already that day.

 

 

 

There is jealousy, aggravation, dislike, envy, inappropriate awe and 'idol worship', anger etc...directed at pmods, their presence also "hinders normal conversation" all of which is completely unacceptable and unnecessary for the reasons I have stated in my posts. Whatever someone did or didn't do to get there, they wanted to be a pmod and took it when it was offered knowing the reactions they would get. So why would anyone do that for something they had previously enjoyed to 'pass the time', a 'game'.....Purely for the status!

[Sir_Kurity]

And yet somehow a large number of players in the past managed to fall for it. Not sure if that scam's still around, but still.

 

 

 

With trade limits, nothing can happen now. I mean the most you can be scammed for is 60k, and if you have done almost every quest in the game and for some reason manage to get fooled by a fake Pmod, then theres something wrong.

 

 

 

 

There is jealousy, aggravation, dislike, envy, inappropriate awe and 'idol worship', anger etc...directed at pmods, their presence also "hinders normal conversation"

 

 

 

As far as my experience tells a Pmod is a negative to almost any conversation.

 

 

 

If your talking at willows and a mod comes around, he is the centre of attention, he gets called a complete noob, and no lifer by half of them, while getting worshiped by the other half, while some others go about there day as if nothing happened. They can do what they could before without the crown, all it causes is noob-worship.

[Guest]

Wow. That was...well, that was pretty much totally unrelated to what I posted. Good job, you've successfully ignored what I said.

 

On other words, evidence is not good enough for you. No matter what I say youll always disagree with it.

 

 

I've come to believe you don't actually know the difference between a true statement and a false statement. Maybe I can help. Since your response was so oddly unrelated to my actual point, I'm going to restate my point a little more slowly.

 

I answered your points. Shame you dont want to hear it.

 

 

The following statement is true:

 

"There are some number of player moderators who only want to be player moderators for the status it gives them."

 

The following statement is false:

 

"All player moderators only want to be player moderators for the status it gives them."

 

The two statements are saying completely different things.

 

You are not arguing in support of the first statement.

 

You are arguing in support of the second statement.

 

You have provided evidence that is sufficient to prove the first statement.

 

You have not provided evidence that is sufficient to prove the second statement.

 

It is impossible to provide evidence that is sufficient to prove the second statement.

 

 

All in your own opinion. Youve presented not one shred of evidence.

 

 

I'm sure the reason the town crier was brought up in the first place was because jrhairychest insisted that Jagex's post saying that "reporting was in the past a significant factor in Pmod selection" or something was relevant evidence to support the idea that all Pmods are in it for the status. (That's the evidence from Jagex he's been trying to point to this whole time, anyway.) See what I mean when I say the evidence doesn't match the claim?

 

This proves nothing (as usual).

 

 

A Jagex post saying they're happy about their current crop of moderators implies that the current moderators are doing a good job based on the goals they have been given (which are defined and tracked by Jagex). A Jagex post saying bad mods are de-modded quickly is evidence that the good mods stay mods and the bad mods don't, which seems to imply that good mods should very quickly outnumber bad mods just through, I guess you could say, natural selection.

 

Obviously never heard of diplomacy. Jagex would be insane to post that their current selection of pmods were bad.

 

All your evidence in this post is based on your own point of view. So bring some evidence to the table.

[Guest]

A current pmod saying that most players would not want to be a mod without the crown just means that most players would not want to be a mod without the crown. It says nothing about the current moderating team being only in it for the crown.

 

 

 

Here's some evidence

 

 

And some more

 

 

If these are older than the knowledge base update, it shows that reporting was not the sole factor to the selection as they said, and so either they weren't entirely honest about their previous method to anyone, or that the "new" method is not as new as it seems. If it is new it means reporting is still a factor. Either way it shows that your evidence from Jagex cannot be taken entirely as truthful; this is a pretty big hole.

 

Plus, deny it as you might, this is also evidence from Jagex. On one hand you have a development diary, which is a glorified teaser for future updates. On the other you have two NPCs that they added to the game for easy access to rule and safety information. Which side of it are you going to believe?

 

You have still failed to provide solid evidence that most of the moderating team is in it for the status beyond opinion or inference.

 

 

 

This proves nothing, except was already in the KB. You have no idea how you got noticed by Jagex. You couldn't answer just how you got selected and as you well know they did not select you randomly in game but you have no explanation for otherwise. I put to you that your reports got you noticed (backed by the Jagex statement) yet you disagreed but couldn't give me an answer. As a pmod you should know more than I do, and be able to back it up. Im still waiting on your response on this issue.

 

 

 

We've covered whats in the crier before as this was also in the player moderator area. Remember I told that why would they say 'report, report, report'. They would have been inundated with reporting anarchy. I'd say that it was smarter not to state it. You havent proved anything to the contrary to the Jagex statement.

 

 

 

Its quite easy to prove you went for status. You went around reporting other people to get it because you wanted the reward at the end of it. You could have declined mod status but you didnt. Why did you take it? You could have done all those things, bar the mute, without it so unless you actually wanted that crown you didnt need to take it.

 

 

 

If Jagex are not entirely truthful, I ask AGAIN, as a pmod, why haven't you asked them about it? Why are you shirking this responsibility you have to the community?

 

 

 

I know you have trouble dealing with the new system. I personally wouldnt want to find out I was selected for pmod on the first basis for reporting players. I would rather have been selected for who I was and the way I played the game.

[Guest]

There is one way you can prove you're not in it for the status a_local_guy.

 

 

 

1) Take an up-to-date screenshot of yourself talking.

 

 

 

2) Demod yourself. After all you can do all the nice things you claim you do without the crown. If you're not in it for the status, then you won't mind doing this. You'll still be able to report, be nice to players etc without the crown. If you're not in it for the status, then lets see you prove it.

 

 

 

3) When demodded, come in game to see me. We will take a screenshot together talking and we will even wave if you want.

 

 

 

This would be the ultimate evidence to prove you are not in it for status *throws gauntlet on the floor*.

[Lord_Shalaj]

Sigh.

 

 

 

No, come on. For the post, how did you get noticed? This can actually settle the debate for you. Apply some common sense, how did you get noticed?

 

 

 

You aren't a PMod. You don't have access to the PMod centre or procedures. So, the brilliant fact that you never knew is that - You DON'T know HOW you became a PMod. You are just notified that you did.

 

 

 

And before you stress on rubble like "that still doesn't explain how he got chosen", there are things like providing suggestions on who you think can be a PMod.

 

 

 

Sorry but thats a poor argument. You can't actually stop scams unless its happening to you, merchant clans are not banned by jagex yet as they only advise against it (good post about pyramid selling) and we have trade limits which has hit gold buyers massively. So as a pmod have not made one iota of difference to these things. Jagex did.

 

 

 

Since you keep citing the same, the only "evidence" of an article you have got, I dearly hope you did read that PMods do have meetings (or maybe its mentioned in the KB). They also frequently interact with Jagex and JMods. Which means they are the first people Jagex/JMods would ask on issues like merchanting, bots, RL Trading.

 

 

 

And you seriously think JMods go on expeditions in Draynor to look for bots? They go surfing millions of websites to look for gold sellers?

 

They actually look at graphs of each and every item on the GE database to see which are being merched?

 

 

 

Right... :roll:

 

 

 

My burden is done. You haven't actually disproved anything, you've just disagreed without further enhancing your claims. Now where is your evidence? Still calling you out.

 

 

 

You know, I actually don't like the general idea you have about a debate. You feel that "If I don't have any evidence, I must ask other people to provide evidence to disagree with me on my dubious claims, since I made the thread and started the debate. (it doesn't matter that I can't provide GOOD and UNBIASED evidence, because I can carry my debate by finding loopholes in the evidence they provide)"

 

 

 

 

 

If my assertions are so stupid, theres quite a few people who actually agree on here that it is a status symbol. My arguments are qualified through Jagex themselves (they said it plain and clear - I just quote!) and a pmod who I posted on a quote to you earlier who agreed that most players want the crown as a reward - hence status symbol. Is the word of a current pmod acceptable as evidence? I know I'm right. If people didn't get the crown, few of them would actually do the job. mmmmmcannibal admitted this himself.

 

 

 

There you go again.

 

 

 

1 PMod truthfully admits he wanted the crown = all PMods want the crown.

 

 

 

A pmod admits most players wouldn't want to be pmods without it? You disagree?

 

 

 

I disagree.

 

 

 

Let me use your flawed analogy against you --

 

 

 

You say that ONE PMod says getting the crown is important.

 

I'll show you TWO PMods who prefer hiding the crown.

 

 

 

So, due to basic Mathematics, 2 being greater than 1...I win?

 

 

 

Do not say that 2 PMods is hardly any evidence...since that is the type of so-called "evidence" you are providing.

 

 

 

-----

 

 

 

On the subject of evidence.

 

 

 

*You provided some strange lines saying PMods claim they stopped Macro.

 

 

 

You have been constantly lurking away in the attempt to provide evidence for these dubious claims. I re-phrase -

 

 

 

Ok, you answered. Brilliant. Now provide the proof for Macroing. Or find another excuse.

 

 

 

You stated that PMods supposedly claim such... You should have evidence with you. Do not ask me to provide evidence on how PMods reduced Macroing (Yes, I can provide a good amount) just because you don't have any.

 

 

 

 

 

In your haste to post you havent considered this point at all. Who is the more dumb? Me or the one who didnt read the statement properly? Read it again very carefully this time. I let this go the first time but seeing as youre going for the dumb insults lets see if you answer the point.

 

 

 

You still haven't read and understood what a "survey" or "consensus" means. I advise you. Please do. After that you wouldn't keep citing an ex-mod as "evidence".

 

 

 

-

 

 

 

And I would also like you to answer these questions -

 

 

 

1) Why you base entire threads on person's thoughts.

 

2) Why you ACTUALLY hold a grudge against ALL PMods.

 

 

 

And lets see, who bases all their claims after one person's thoughts? I think you know that isn't a smart thing to do? Saying that "Aquanites rock" because ONE person likes them? Saying that "Runecrafting is super fast experience" because ONE person says so? So that's what you are failing to grasp - One person's thoughts and opinions will not change the opinions of thousands about thousand other players.

 

 

 

---------

 

 

 

I never really wanted to return to this debate, because I had a small feeling that once again, if I start making too much sense and actually zero all your points down to the fact that fool-proof evidence is needed, you may once again, unceremoniously, claim my posts are "spam" and move on to exploiting the loopholes in the other debaters who actually provide some evidence to support their claims.

 

 

 

Thanks..

 

Lord Shalaj

[Guest]

You aren't a PMod. You don't have access to the PMod centre or procedures. So, the brilliant fact that you never knew is that - You DON'T know HOW you became a PMod. You are just notified that you did.

 

Im asking for evidence, Im getting none. If you want to dispute a Jagex post, then please do but back it up. Are you a pmod yourself? I'd like some evidence of these so called 'procedures'.

 

 

 

And before you stress on rubble like "that still doesn't explain how he got chosen", there are things like providing suggestions on who you think can be a PMod.

 

I think Jagex is taking care of that right now.

 

 

 

Since you keep citing the same, the only "evidence" of an article you have got, I dearly hope you did read that PMods do have meetings (or maybe its mentioned in the KB). They also frequently interact with Jagex and JMods. Which means they are the first people Jagex/JMods would ask on issues like merchanting, bots, RL Trading.

 

And you seriously think JMods go on expeditions in Draynor to look for bots? They go surfing millions of websites to look for gold sellers?

 

They actually look at graphs of each and every item on the GE database to see which are being merched?

 

Right... :roll:

 

I love the way some people dismiss the Jagex article. You and the others never wanted to tackle it and its hilarious. If thats true about meetings as such then how come a_local_guy doesnt bother with his own community. He admits this himself. Just in case youre unaware:

 

Scams Pmods cannot do a thing unless they witness it, which is impossible. Thats down to the player, not a pmod.

 

Gold sellers/buyers Jagex solved that with trade limits, not pmods.

 

 

 

Mark Gehrard in February 2009.

 

Q) Xxx R4ng3d - Bring Wildy back, it hasn't stopped RWT at all has it!?

 

Whilst there is still some RWT going on (and probably always will be), RWT is now MASSIVELY reduced. In terms of stopping RWT, what we did was a huge undeniable success - botting, RWT, and credit card fraud are all at some of the lowest levels I have ever seen. Indeed, it was even more successful at reducing the problem than I had hoped for. There is still some, of course, and we have ongoing work to do to keep closing loopholes. We still ban people for botting and RWT, and are going to be upping the action we take against the few remaining culprits shortly.

 

 

 

Price manipulation Never against the rules.

 

 

 

Mod Andrew on 3rd Sept.

 

The attempts to price manipulate on the Grand Exchange are annoying, but not a massive concern in the grand scheme of things, as they are fairly easy to spot heuristically and we already have updates in the works to make it so this sort of thing doesnt work (the price just wont change).

 

Again thank Jagex for that, not pmods (not that it was illegal in the first place). Notice they dont state bans? They are just going to stop it.

 

 

 

Bots Jagex have stated they can detect any form of bot. I dont see congratulations to pmods being thanked, they just updated their detection systems. Here you go.

 

 

 

 

11th June 2009

 

Youve probably already noticed while playing the game that there has been a lot less macroing going on over the last year, as weve been getting more effective at preventing it. Gone are the days where every tree has an accompanying crowd of bots. However, were not resting on our laurels, and in fact we have just strengthened our macro-detection systems yet again. We are about to ban several thousand more accounts for macroing. We have reviewed all the macro programs available, and there are none we cannot detect.

 

In effect, Jagex have sorted much of this themselves in-game. Nothing to do with pmods. I take it you want to dispute these quotes too as this evidence is probably not enough either?

 

 

 

You know, I actually don't like the general idea you have about a debate. You feel that "If I don't have any evidence, I must ask other people to provide evidence to disagree with me on my dubious claims, since I made the thread and started the debate. (it doesn't matter that I can't provide GOOD and UNBIASED evidence, because I can carry my debate by finding loopholes in the evidence they provide)"

 

In other words, you dont like it because I ask you for evidence to the contrary, but you cannot find any. You disagree without ever backing it up. Personally, I couldn't give a toss whether you like my debating style or not. If its bad, you wouldn't have come back to post.

 

 

 

 

There you go again.

 

 

 

1 PMod truthfully admits he wanted the crown = all PMods want the crown.

 

If any of those pmods were not in it for the status, Im not stopping them giving it up.

 

 

 

A pmod admits most players wouldn't want to be pmods without it? You disagree?

 

 

 

I disagree.

 

And I agree with him. Stalemate.

 

 

 

 

Let me use your flawed analogy against you --

 

 

 

You say that ONE PMod says getting the crown is important.

 

I'll show you TWO PMods who prefer hiding the crown.

 

 

 

So, due to basic Mathematics, 2 being greater than 1...I win?

 

 

 

Do not say that 2 PMods is hardly any evidence...since that is the type of so-called "evidence" you are providing.

 

 

So you're saying for every 3 mods, 1 is after status. Even if your facts were correct that means a third of pmods are after status. Thats good?

 

 

 

Hiding the crown? Why exactly would they want to? Stealth reports? Bring it out when the attention deficit kicks in? If they want to 'hide' the crown, then its simple - demod themselves. The crown is gone and it won't be a burden to them.

 

 

 

 

On the subject of evidence.

 

 

 

*You provided some strange lines saying PMods claim they stopped Macro.

 

 

 

You have been constantly lurking away in the attempt to provide evidence for these dubious claims. I re-phrase

 

 

 

Ok, you answered. Brilliant. Now provide the proof for Macroing. Or find another excuse.

 

In case you hadnt noticed, and you havent, I have stated in this post that I have questioned many a mod in game about how they got modship. Many replies are I report bots only. Would you admit you got a modship if you went around reporting players, just to get a crown?

 

 

 

You stated that PMods supposedly claim such... You should have evidence with you. Do not ask me to provide evidence on how PMods reduced Macroing (Yes, I can provide a good amount) just because you don't have any.

 

Provide me with the evidence you claim to have. After all much of this, again, is your own point of view but on the other hand, you claim I cannot have one. If you have this evidence then dispute my claim.

 

 

 

You still haven't read and understood what a "survey" or "consensus" means. I advise you. Please do. After that you wouldn't keep citing an ex-mod as "evidence".

 

Oooh you guys really have it for Bluelancer. No idea why, Has he upset you or something?

 

Yes actually I do. Provide me with some. I take it you have survey evidence that supports your case?

 

Oh just in case youre interested a survey was conducted in the UK recently about things that people hate. In amongst the things such as driving too close behind you and slow shoppers wasbrown nosers.

 

 

 

 

And I would also like you to answer these questions -

 

 

 

1) Why you base entire threads on person's thoughts.

 

Whos thoughts? My own or someone elses? I take it you missed those who agreed that mods were in it for the status?

 

2) Why you ACTUALLY hold a grudge against ALL PMods.

 

The new pmods I wont have a problem with in the slightest. They are selected under a different criteria so thats a good thing. The old pmods because they were supposed to be playing a game, not using other people to get some sort of status symbol. I take it you find this type of thing good?

 

And lets see, who bases all their claims after one person's thoughts? I think you know that isn't a smart thing to do? Saying that "Aquanites rock" because ONE person likes them? Saying that "Runecrafting is super fast experience" because ONE person says so? So that's what you are failing to grasp - One person's thoughts and opinions will not change the opinions of thousands about thousand other players.

 

I base things on the evidence I see, what I read and I make my own decisions thanks :lol: , just like the others who read the evidence and tended to agree. You've read a few posts and decided to post yourself.

 

 

 

---------

 

 

 

I never really wanted to return to this debate, because I had a small feeling that once again, if I start making too much sense and actually zero all your points down to the fact that fool-proof evidence is needed, you may once again, unceremoniously, claim my posts are "spam" and move on to exploiting the loopholes in the other debaters who actually provide some evidence to support their claims.

 

 

 

Evidence? You havent presented a thing lmao and neither has anyone else despite many requests. All this is based around is your own point of view, and if that is fact, then we can all present our own points of view.

[Rainy_Day]

There is one way you can prove you're not in it for the status a_local_guy.

 

 

 

1) Take an up-to-date screenshot of yourself talking.

 

 

 

2) Demod yourself. After all you can do all the nice things you claim you do without the crown. If you're not in it for the status, then you won't mind doing this. You'll still be able to report, be nice to players etc without the crown. If you're not in it for the status, then lets see you prove it.

 

 

 

3) When demodded, come in game to see me. We will take a screenshot together talking and we will even wave if you want.

 

 

 

This would be the ultimate evidence to prove you are not in it for status *throws gauntlet on the floor*.

 

Firstly, do not triple post, there is an edit button provided for a reason.

 

 

 

Secondly, your attitude is unfriendly and not overall appreciated in this thread. If you wish to debate with another, then go ahead, but telling another user to prove their sincerity throughout their actions by demodding themselves is hardly a fair approach to such a matter.

[RayOxide]

ALG is cool. Lay off. I'm kinda sure the Mod friends I have never really WANTED to be a Mod, they just played the game hoping they wouldnt get banned or muted, noone wants to be banned or muted.

 

Infact, even one of my best friends on RuneScape is a Pmod. He never wanted to be one, and he doesnt care. There's no reason NOT to be a Pmod, you have Jagex on your side -.-

 

 

 

Though I do hate the ideas of Pmods, and alot of them I do hate. But alot of Pmods are good people, eg ALG.

 

So dont rip on them if you hate a few, rip on the few if you hate them.

[Erewhon2]

Let me clarify.....I do not hate pmods, what I dislike is the entire concept of the unnecessary, frontline 'policing' of a game through the old system that was available to anyone who used the reporting procedure correctly. What I am trying to do is establish that accepting it was purely about having perceived 'status' and not about purpose. And the points I made in my previous post on this page still stand unchallenged.

 

 

 

Unfortunately people like Lord_Shalaj and a_local_guy seem to feel that Jrhairychest is the only one worth debating with, when others like myself and Est0rrath have clearly supported the topic of his thread. :shame:

[Lord_Shalaj]

Im asking for evidence, Im getting none. If you want to dispute a Jagex post, then please do but back it up. Are you a pmod yourself? I'd like some evidence of these so called 'procedures'.

 

 

 

Ahh, it is quite so that some things are meant to be secluded from the rest. You've provided a fine example of what can happen if Jagex starts discussing their new procedures in detail (like questioning the existence of it). I have interacted with LOTS of PMods (Yes, the counter goes very high). Many of them very close friends. They personally admitted that they NEVER thought that they would be granted Moderatorship as they were the silent, no-report types. Surprise Surprise, they became PMods. Magic?

 

 

 

And my evidence -

 

 

 

Player Moderators are all invited by Jagex. We take many different things into account when looking for prospective Player Moderators; we review personal gaming style and forum posts. We consider the validity of the players abuse reports and as well as how helpful and friendly they have been to other players in the game.

 

 

 

We dont give out details on how close someone is to becoming a moderator, but rest assured that if you are a friendly, community-minded player well be sure to notice.

 

 

 

From the mouth of Jagex. Crystal clear. If you disagree with this...then ahh...I think you are in "denial". :-#

 

 

 

I think Jagex is taking care of that right now.

 

 

 

And you have NO evidence that this was actually taking place much before the all-important Developer Blog.

 

 

 

Scams Pmods cannot do a thing unless they witness it, which is impossible. Thats down to the player, not a pmod.

 

 

 

And who reports the different kinds of scams to Jagex. Granted, the RSOF was a decent medium, but in the end, face-to-face or personal interaction actually notified them.

 

 

 

Bots Jagex have stated they can detect any form of bot. I dont see congratulations to pmods being thanked, they just updated their detection systems. Here you go.

 

 

 

Isn't it an already known fact that PMods help to better the community? So Jagex should thank them on each and every change they make? And even if they do, they have their own areas to do so.

 

 

 

In effect, Jagex have sorted much of this themselves in-game. Nothing to do with pmods. I take it you want to dispute these quotes too as this evidence is probably not enough either?

 

 

 

All the feedback, and most of the aid did come from PMods. I distinctly remember a Bot-hunting campaign organised by PMods a few years back (before December 12th updates) to rid out most of the bots. Also, frequent discussion and feedback actually paved the way for the changes we saw implemented on the aforementioned date.

 

 

 

In other words, you dont like it because I ask you for evidence to the contrary, but you cannot find any. You disagree without ever backing it up. Personally, I couldn't give a toss whether you like my debating style or not. If its bad, you wouldn't have come back to post.

 

 

 

Are you trying to hide the fact that you don't have any evidence to present your case and keep demanding others to do so? (Yes, I'm excluding 1 ex-mod)

 

 

 

If any of those pmods were not in it for the status, Im not stopping them giving it up.

 

 

 

So if even one does it for status, it means ALL OTHERS DO IT TOO??

 

 

 

So you're saying for every 3 mods, 1 is after status. Even if your facts were correct that means a third of pmods are after status. Thats good?

 

 

 

I provided an example to show that your flawed analogy is...indeed flawed. You still didn't answer. So it means that ALL PMods would like to hide their crown because the majority in this case is higher? (2 > 1)

 

 

 

Hiding the crown? Why exactly would they want to? Stealth reports? Bring it out when the attention deficit kicks in? If they want to 'hide' the crown, then its simple - demod themselves. The crown is gone and it won't be a burden to them.

 

 

 

This line actually shows you have NOT interacted with PMods deeply. Or even if you have done, you have just pestered them with procedure questions and things like "Why did you report?". Trust me, ask a PMod why he would like to hide the crown.

 

 

 

The crown has its pro and cons, as does everything. Would you like to be -

 

 

 

1) The first one to be killed in a clan PK trip/PvP skilling area just because the Pker thinks "I h8 modz!"

 

2) Face requests of "gimme some money plz, I beg you"

 

3) Or "mah accnt got banned!!! unban right now!"

 

4) Be treated EITHER like a disgusting insect OR a god worth worshipping?

 

 

 

Provide me with the evidence you claim to have. After all much of this, again, is your own point of view but on the other hand, you claim I cannot have one. If you have this evidence then dispute my claim.

 

 

 

The mentioned Bot-Hunting campaign.

 

 

 

Oooh you guys really have it for Bluelancer. No idea why, Has he upset you or something?

 

Yes actually I do. Provide me with some. I take it you have survey evidence that supports your case?

 

Oh just in case youre interested a survey was conducted in the UK recently about things that people hate. In amongst the things such as driving too close behind you and slow shoppers wasbrown nosers.

 

 

 

Again, you're trying to hide from the fact that you either -

 

 

 

1) Don't want to understand the meaning of a survey

 

2) Are DELIBERATELY ignoring the meaning to support your claims.

 

 

 

I have nothing against this Bluelancer, but I do have something against your vocabulary skills. (as in: definition of survey/consensus...not flaming, incase you take this as an excuse to not answer.)

 

 

 

The new pmods I wont have a problem with in the slightest. They are selected under a different criteria so thats a good thing. The old pmods because they were supposed to be playing a game, not using other people to get some sort of status symbol. I take it you find this type of thing good?

 

 

 

Using other people? Are you serious? I thought they reported (not ALL of them) the RULE BREAKERS? Aren't those rule-breakers meant to be punished anyway? Darn, why would we keep rules then...how foolish of Jagex :roll:

 

 

 

---------

 

 

 

Evidence? You havent presented a thing lmao and neither has anyone else despite many requests. All this is based around is your own point of view, and if that is fact, then we can all present our own points of view.

 

 

 

Me saying that a survey doesn't involve just ONE person is not my sole point of view.

 

Me saying that if one person is bad, it doesn't mean all our necessarily bad is not my sole point of view.

 

Me saying that a you haven't given any evidence is not my sole point of view.

 

 

 

So..well...its the POVs of many against yours. :?

 

 

 

Thanks..

 

Lord Shalaj

[RayOxide]

Let me clarify.....I do not hate pmods, what I dislike is the entire concept of the unnecessary, frontline 'policing' of a game through the old system that was available to anyone who used the reporting procedure correctly. What I am trying to do is establish that accepting it was purely about having perceived 'status' and not about purpose. And the points I made in my previous post on this page still stand unchallenged.

 

 

 

Unfortunately people like Lord_Shalaj and a_local_guy seem to feel that Jrhairychest is the only one worth debating with, when others like myself and Est0rrath have clearly supported the topic of his thread. :shame:

 

 

 

I agree basically. There's no reason for a Pmod... If that is what you are getting at.

[Erewhon2]

I agree basically. There's no reason for a Pmod... If that is what you are getting at.

 

 

 

Thanks RayOxide...good to see someone reasoning things out =D>

[RayOxide]

Np.

 

 

 

Also for a note for people bagging on Pmods,

 

 

 

I'm kinda sure the Mod friends I have never really WANTED to be a Mod, they just played the game hoping they wouldnt get banned or muted, noone wants to be banned or muted.

 

Infact, even one of my best friends on RuneScape is a Pmod. He never wanted to be one, and he doesnt care. There's no reason NOT to be a Pmod, you have Jagex on your side

[Troacctid]

You aren't a PMod. You don't have access to the PMod centre or procedures. So, the brilliant fact that you never knew is that - You DON'T know HOW you became a PMod. You are just notified that you did.

 

Im asking for evidence, Im getting none. If you want to dispute a Jagex post, then please do but back it up. Are you a pmod yourself? I'd like some evidence of these so called 'procedures'.

 

That's easy. actually, you don't even need access to the Pmod center. It's in the Game Guide. Look:

 

If you are selected for a Player Moderator invitation, a message will be sent to your Jagex secure message centre inviting you to register with us through the Player Moderator Centre, so be sure to read any messages carefully. Once you have accepted and the confirmation has been received, you will get your silver crown and moderator abilities.

 

It's not difficult to imagine exactly what the message would say--I sincerely doubt it's a personalized letter describing all of the player's good qualities.

 

 

 

I've come to believe you don't actually know the difference between a true statement and a false statement. Maybe I can help. Since your response was so oddly unrelated to my actual point, I'm going to restate my point a little more slowly.

 

I answered your points. Shame you dont want to hear it.

 

 

The following statement is true:

 

"There are some number of player moderators who only want to be player moderators for the status it gives them."

 

The following statement is false:

 

"All player moderators only want to be player moderators for the status it gives them."

 

The two statements are saying completely different things.

 

You are not arguing in support of the first statement.

 

You are arguing in support of the second statement.

 

You have provided evidence that is sufficient to prove the first statement.

 

You have not provided evidence that is sufficient to prove the second statement.

 

It is impossible to provide evidence that is sufficient to prove the second statement.

 

 

All in your own opinion. Youve presented not one shred of evidence.

 

Let me sum it up even shorter for you, because you seem to have missed the point.

 

 

 

You have provided evidence, but your evidence supports completely different claims than the ones you are trying to prove.

 

 

 

Don't ask me to give you more "evidence" of this because that's exactly what I've been doing when I was quoting your evidence. Go look back at those posts. 8th post on page 22, if you forgot.

 

 

 

Let me clarify.....I do not hate pmods, what I dislike is the entire concept of the unnecessary, frontline 'policing' of a game through the old system that was available to anyone who used the reporting procedure correctly. What I am trying to do is establish that accepting it was purely about having perceived 'status' and not about purpose. And the points I made in my previous post on this page still stand unchallenged.

 

 

 

Unfortunately people like Lord_Shalaj and a_local_guy seem to feel that Jrhairychest is the only one worth debating with, when others like myself and Est0rrath have clearly supported the topic of his thread. :shame:

 

The trouble with that viewpoint is that it's kind of redundant. Pmodship is a status. Dictionary definition of status: the position of an individual in relation to another or others, esp. in regard to social or professional standing. Saying players want to be a Pmod because they want the status is akin to saying players want to be a Pmod because they want to be a Pmod.

 

 

 

And to argue that it has no purpose is simply not true. Moderators can say, "Okay guys, cut it out" and people will listen. Players who need help can rely on them to know what they're talking about. And perhaps most importantly, it makes things a lot easier for whoever has to sift through abuse reports at Jagex to have a group of players that can be relied upon to not send out frivolous reports. ("Omg y wont u lend me ur gs reported n00b") The player moderator system makes things easier on Jagex--that's probably a big reason why Jagex is so happy with it. And there's nothing wrong with that.

[Erewhon2]

As you appear to have become incapable of reading any other posts, including mine, I have decided to respond to yours instead, even if it means me repeating myself (again)! :evil:

 

 

 

Ahh, it is quite so that some things are meant to be secluded from the rest. You've provided a fine example of what can happen if Jagex starts discussing their new procedures in detail (like questioning the existence of it). I have interacted with LOTS of PMods (Yes, the counter goes very high). Many of them very close friends. They personally admitted that they NEVER thought that they would be granted Moderatorship as they were the silent, no-report types. Surprise Surprise, they became PMods. Magic?

 

This is word of mouth and not evidential, and why have they all agreed to be pmods in the first place if it was 'such a surprise'?

 

We consider the validity of the players abuse reports and as well as how helpful and friendly they have been to other players in the game.

 

No one has ever said other things were not taken into consideration, but it was Jagex who stated that 'reporting' was emphasised in the selection of pmods.

 

And you have NO evidence that this was actually taking place much before the all-important Developer Blog.

 

That is an irrelevant point to make, as you say the evidence is there now.

 

And who reports the different kinds of scams to Jagex. Granted, the RSOF was a decent medium, but in the end, face-to-face or personal interaction actually notified them.

 

The ordinary players report scams, usually those who have been victims of it, unless a pmod is actually in the right place at the right time...how would they know? (See a previous post).

 

Isn't it an already known fact that PMods help to better the community? So Jagex should thank them on each and every change they make? And even if they do, they have their own areas to do so.

 

Erm.......no! Who said? No one I know did. And as I have said before, where I spend most of my time there is very rarely a mod around, even in the busy spots.

 

All the feedback, and most of the aid did come from PMods. I distinctly remember a Bot-hunting campaign organised by PMods a few years back (before December 12th updates) to rid out most of the bots. Also, frequent discussion and feedback actually paved the way for the changes we saw implemented on the aforementioned date.

 

I'm not sure why Jagex would not thank pmods if this was the case, it's not in their interests to ignore them or devalue the contribution. Therefore I would suggest the pmod role was likely to be insignificant in the scheme of things, especially when Jagex have attributed the praise for this to their programming.

 

Are you trying to hide the fact that you don't have any evidence to present your case and keep demanding others to do so? (Yes, I'm excluding 1 ex-mod)

 

There has been evidence to support the theme of this thread and numerous opinions from other players, both for and against the topic.

 

So if even one does it for status, it means ALL OTHERS DO IT TOO??

 

Yes....most definitely. Read my posts on page 22.

 

The crown has its pro and cons, as does everything. Would you like to be -

 

 

 

1) The first one to be killed in a clan PK trip/PvP skilling area just because the Pker thinks "I h8 modz!"

 

2) Face requests of "gimme some money plz, I beg you"

 

3) Or "mah accnt got banned!!! unban right now!"

 

4) Be treated EITHER like a disgusting insect OR a god worth worshipping?

 

So where are the pros here? Its all negative and all unacceptable.

[Alg]

For fun

 

http://www.runescape.com/kbase/guid/diary06

 

"The Player and Forum Moderators, and other legitimate players, have put in a lot of effort and deserve recognition. They see more than we ever could, so we follow up on as many Abuse Reports as possible."

 

Remember that whatever Jagex added to stop scamming, RWT, etc. Happened recently. The moderator community had been dealing with the problems for a long time before.

 

 

 

Also apologies to Erewhon2 and Est0rrath if I don't reply to their posts. I don't want to end up making multiple posts and it takes long enough to make just one :oops:

[Erewhon2]

Also apologies to Erewhon2 and Est0rrath if I don't reply to their posts. I don't want to end up making multiple posts and it takes long enough to make just one

 

The problem is that by not at least reading other debators posts as Jrhairychest has repeatedly advised people to do, you create more work for yourself by raising issues/points that have already been answered or responded to by others. This makes for a very frustrating debate when I see an issue raised that I have previously already spoken about or given an answer/opinion on. :wall:

[Guest]

Erewhon2 - No worries they've tried the tag team thing before. It didn't work last time either. Thanks for the support. For some reason you have become invisible as they are fixated about me. They don't know I'm not that kind of boy......they will have to buy me dinner first....ooo matron!!! :XD:

 

 

 

Shalaj and Troacttid- Hardly any evidence presented, except a little from the kb. knew you couldn't. All your personal opinion with no real facts. Never mind maybe next time eh? ;)

 

 

 

a_local_guy - My offer still stands. You can prove you're not about status with me and do all the helping and reporting you want without your crown. Your move. :-k

[Lord_Shalaj]

This is word of mouth and not evidential, and why have they all agreed to be pmods in the first place if it was 'such a surprise'?

 

 

 

Did you not get the meaning? They were surprised that they were CONSIDERED to become a PMod as they had never/hardly touched the Report Abuse button in their RuneScape lives. And who says 'surprise' is a negative feeling? Does it have any relation with their decision on becoming a PMod?

 

 

 

No one has ever said other things were not taken into consideration, but it was Jagex who stated that 'reporting' was emphasised in the selection of pmods.

 

 

 

It wasn't the only criteria though. You could become a PMod without reporting ever.

 

 

 

That is an irrelevant point to make, as you say the evidence is there now.

 

 

 

No it is not. I have been questioned on my statements that PMods were also selected on other criteria. I have challenged him to provide evidence that it did not happen this way (or whatever Jrhairychest claims). So far, even you haven't provided evidence for this dubious statement.

 

 

 

The ordinary players report scams, usually those who have been victims of it, unless a pmod is actually in the right place at the right time...how would they know? (See a previous post).

 

 

 

I can safely say a LARGE number of players don't know how to report certain people for their actions. And to report them under which rule. And where to report for that matter. I don't deny that the players also have a hand in reducing Macros and bots, but saying that PMods have absolutely NO hand in reducing this is ABSURD.... (hold on, aren't they players too?)

 

 

 

Erm.......no! Who said? No one I know did. And as I have said before, where I spend most of my time there is very rarely a mod around, even in the busy spots.

 

 

 

It was definitely being implied.

 

 

 

I'm not sure why Jagex would not thank pmods if this was the case, it's not in their interests to ignore them or devalue the contribution. Therefore I would suggest the pmod role was likely to be insignificant in the scheme of things, especially when Jagex have attributed the praise for this to their programming.

 

 

 

PMods just helped in the "Feedback" phase. The programming and coding was all Jagex's brainchild.

 

 

 

So if even one does it for status, it means ALL OTHERS DO IT TOO??

 

Yes....most definitely. Read my posts on page 22.

 

 

 

Well this is why I was probably ignoring your posts...Honestly :roll: :roll:

 

 

 

The crown has its pro and cons, as does everything. Would you like to be -

 

 

 

1) The first one to be killed in a clan PK trip/PvP skilling area just because the Pker thinks "I h8 modz!"

 

2) Face requests of "gimme some money plz, I beg you"

 

3) Or "mah accnt got banned!!! unban right now!"

 

4) Be treated EITHER like a disgusting insect OR a god worth worshipping?

 

So where are the pros here? Its all negative and all unacceptable.

 

 

 

I thought you people already knew the pros? Seeing that you have spent 25+ pages telling us why PMods shouldn't get the advantages they get?

 

 

 

Thanks..

 

Lord Shalaj

[Lord_Shalaj]

Shalaj and Troacttid- Hardly any evidence presented, except a little from the kb. knew you couldn't. All your personal opinion with no real facts. Never mind maybe next time eh? ;)

 

 

 

For God's sake... maybe try thinking of reasonable points/topics next time if you really can't back them up.

 

 

 

What a total waste of time in replying, no wonder I had an inkling you would try to slither away from all the counter-arguments.

 

 

 

Thanks..

 

Lord Shalaj

[Alg]

 

a_local_guy - My offer still stands. You can prove you're not about status with me and do all the helping and reporting you want without your crown. Your move. :-k

 

Ah, but I'd also lose out on the moderator community, which is among the best. If it wasn't for that I'd have left years ago :)

[Guest]

 

a_local_guy - My offer still stands. You can prove you're not about status with me and do all the helping and reporting you want without your crown. Your move. :-k

 

Ah, but I'd also lose out on the moderator community, which is among the best. If it wasn't for that I'd have left years ago :)

 

 

 

This is the same community you're not involved with as you prefer to keep to yourself? So, in reality, you can do all the things you did before so its no loss is it?

[Erewhon2]

Quote:

 

"The Player and Forum Moderators, and other legitimate players, have put in a lot of effort and deserve recognition. They see more than we ever could, so we follow up on as many Abuse Reports as possible."

 

 

 

Remember that whatever Jagex added to stop scamming, RWT, etc. Happened recently. The moderator community had been dealing with the problems for a long time before.

 

I had a look at the link you provided and it also says......

 

Unfortunately, these methods are reactive find a problem then solve it and if we just react, we'll always be chipping away at a larger problem.............

So this method did little to resolve the issues and did not 'deal with it', Andrew goes on to say......

the only way to remove the real-world trading market is to develop your game

The result of which was the changes in the wildy and the development of the GE, programming and nothing to do with pmods. He adds...that those RWT that are left can easily be dealt with.....

With the systems we've developed to deal with real-world traders, combined with the vigilance of our players

please note here, his reference to players this time and not pmods, recognition for the everyday game player! =D>