PMods - Purpose or Status?

[Troacctid]

It would be immpossible for there not to be mods who are in love with their crown. The crown as a symbol has many powers. It can instill fear, awe, respect, hatred and so on in many players. Many players look up to the crown, and many look down. There are even some rare people who can talk to someone with a crown as if they are actualy a player. So many players see the crown as a manifestation of authority that it would be hard to immagine not one mod being attracted to the power of their position.

 

 

 

What the crown actualy is, is an ID badge. It basicly says that for all things rule based, this player actualy knows what there talking about.

 

 

 

Many mods however, see the crown not as a symbol, but as a tool. The crown goes a long way to difusing a tense situation if the mod can choose the right words. It can distract people so well that a political conversation thats about to turn into a verbal nuclear war will stop dead in its tracks. The crown can call BS on scammers.

 

 

 

But the crown is also cursed. In pvp, the crown is basicly a huge bullseye sign. People drop what there doing to go kill the mod. People will hate mods because they see them as authority figures, so the crown attracts loads of harrasment to it. It hinders normal conversation. Finding people who can actualy talk to a mod as if there was no crown is not a common event, instead you get flamed, questioned, and your own personal army of suck-ups. And then theres the questions. Its a wonder mods don't all mute anyone who asks: Whats a mod or How did you get modded or Whats it like to be a mod. If a mod [blocked due to abuse] off the handle after that sort of question its probably related to their being asked that question 50 times already that day.

 

 

 

There are MANY mods who would love to be able to turn the crown off, so as to play the game with some normalcy. Many mods are diven to have a second charecter to get away from the questions. Sure thats not the same as giving it up entirely. Partly thats an emotional bond, but partly being a mod without the crown would pretty much hinder everything a mod does but report and mute. It would also allow everyone to claim they are a non-crowned mod (which is probably why they cant hide them).

 

 

 

There are mods out there who only care about status yes, but so many more mods who are more than that, better than that.

 

 

 

As for the changes to mod selection. Its important to understand just how unimportant reporting was even before the update. Yes, it counted, but accuracy was, and still is, many times more important that reporting quantity. What the change has done is allowed people who are really active in the community a better chance at being modded. The change has basicly been that Jagex is more open about the proccess, just as they are being more open about mods themselves.

 

 

 

As for speaking through chat, not even the mods are in love with that, probably beecause people keep telling them to shut up. The colution would be to go to another chat tab (I think that works), or just ignore them. The ignore list does silence them.

 

 

 

Why are they needed? Specificly looking at the mute, there are two major situations where a mute is more practical that ignoreing. The first is personal information. Some people are not smart enough to know not to give away their home address, or whatever else could be used to find them. Basicly, the person is not likely to ignore the person asking the questions, so preventing the qiestions from being asked is helpful. This goes the other way too. Are you going to ask where someone lives and then ignore them incase they answer you? The mute can also protect people by stopping them from spilling their life story.

 

 

 

Theres other examples but what it comes down to is the intended purpose of teh pmods mute is not to punish, but protect. It also serves to take things that have no place in the game (solicitation, racisim) out immediatly.

 

 

 

Alot of pmods are driven by a desire to make the game a better place, not oppress fellow players.

 

 

 

Your first paragraph really answers the debate. Status symbol.

 

 

 

If pmods find the crown such a burden they can always demod themselves. But alas, its losing power isn't it and they wouldn't want that.

 

I can't believe you had the audacity to accuse anybody else of not reading the arguments when you blatantly ignored all but the first paragraph of this post. (Which I think is a very fair, evenhanded, and persuasive post; kudos, randox.)

[Alg]

^ You mean you expected anything less?

 

If the community doesnt think pmods are picked properly, then theres something wrong.

 

 

 

By the way, what are you on about with the whole open invitation thing.

 

 

 

Agreed. I think theres some reluctance to change issues going on here. By the way heres the link to the thread inviting people to submit themselves for consideration as pmods. Explains the open invitation comments.

 

 

 

http://forum.[Please Use QuickFind Code].ws?103,104,0,59341959

 

 

 

edit - Wow 547 pages of applications at time of writing lol.

 

And how many of those 5470 or so would actually qualify for modship? How many are status seekers who see this as an easy trip to a crown? How many have no idea what a mod really does? How many would abuse whatever power they can get right away?

 

If reporting was their main method, at least they could look at report quality and behavior related to them. While you say it would be difficult to monitor players through reports at least reports gave something quick to read. This is going to give Jagex A LOT of work because they have to monitor all those names and there isn't an easy way such as through reports.

 

Just me playing DA...

[fenrir321]

It would be immpossible for there not to be mods who are in love with their crown. The crown as a symbol has many powers. It can instill fear, awe, respect, hatred and so on in many players. Many players look up to the crown, and many look down. There are even some rare people who can talk to someone with a crown as if they are actualy a player. So many players see the crown as a manifestation of authority that it would be hard to immagine not one mod being attracted to the power of their position.

 

 

 

What the crown actualy is, is an ID badge. It basicly says that for all things rule based, this player actualy knows what there talking about.

 

 

 

Many mods however, see the crown not as a symbol, but as a tool. The crown goes a long way to difusing a tense situation if the mod can choose the right words. It can distract people so well that a political conversation thats about to turn into a verbal nuclear war will stop dead in its tracks. The crown can call BS on scammers.

 

 

 

But the crown is also cursed. In pvp, the crown is basicly a huge bullseye sign. People drop what there doing to go kill the mod. People will hate mods because they see them as authority figures, so the crown attracts loads of harrasment to it. It hinders normal conversation. Finding people who can actualy talk to a mod as if there was no crown is not a common event, instead you get flamed, questioned, and your own personal army of suck-ups. And then theres the questions. Its a wonder mods don't all mute anyone who asks: Whats a mod or How did you get modded or Whats it like to be a mod. If a mod [blocked due to abuse] off the handle after that sort of question its probably related to their being asked that question 50 times already that day.

 

 

 

There are MANY mods who would love to be able to turn the crown off, so as to play the game with some normalcy. Many mods are diven to have a second charecter to get away from the questions. Sure thats not the same as giving it up entirely. Partly thats an emotional bond, but partly being a mod without the crown would pretty much hinder everything a mod does but report and mute. It would also allow everyone to claim they are a non-crowned mod (which is probably why they cant hide them).

 

 

 

There are mods out there who only care about status yes, but so many more mods who are more than that, better than that.

 

 

 

As for the changes to mod selection. Its important to understand just how unimportant reporting was even before the update. Yes, it counted, but accuracy was, and still is, many times more important that reporting quantity. What the change has done is allowed people who are really active in the community a better chance at being modded. The change has basicly been that Jagex is more open about the proccess, just as they are being more open about mods themselves.

 

 

 

As for speaking through chat, not even the mods are in love with that, probably beecause people keep telling them to shut up. The colution would be to go to another chat tab (I think that works), or just ignore them. The ignore list does silence them.

 

 

 

Why are they needed? Specificly looking at the mute, there are two major situations where a mute is more practical that ignoreing. The first is personal information. Some people are not smart enough to know not to give away their home address, or whatever else could be used to find them. Basicly, the person is not likely to ignore the person asking the questions, so preventing the qiestions from being asked is helpful. This goes the other way too. Are you going to ask where someone lives and then ignore them incase they answer you? The mute can also protect people by stopping them from spilling their life story.

 

 

 

Theres other examples but what it comes down to is the intended purpose of teh pmods mute is not to punish, but protect. It also serves to take things that have no place in the game (solicitation, racisim) out immediatly.

 

 

 

Alot of pmods are driven by a desire to make the game a better place, not oppress fellow players.

 

 

 

Your first paragraph really answers the debate. Status symbol.

 

 

 

If pmods find the crown such a burden they can always demod themselves. But alas, its losing power isn't it and they wouldn't want that.

 

 

 

 

Do you have any idea what the words on your response even mean? Not say, anybody who can read the English language can vomit out words like a parrot and make as much sense as you just did. This what your response means:

 

You first paragraph is the only relevant part of your post: the crown is an icon of superiority.

 

 

 

If moderators don't want to carry the burden of being constantly harrassed by other players with questions and the like, then they can always return the badge for no penalty. But sadly, absolutely no player mod would want to do this because every player mod only cares about power and authority

 

 

 

That's what your response means. Your lack of detailed words regrettably leaves us readers to assume that you used "blanket" words like "all" or "every" or "none" or "nothing". Just for practicality and future reference, when you use those words, you are setting yourself up for failure unless you have the proof to back it up. All it takes is one person to prove you wrong. "But it's just one person..." Well, that one person just declared your whole response to be a pile of ignorance and negative stereotypes without them actually having to do anything except exist.

 

 

 

And just for another future reference, when you debate, you actively listen to the opposing argument and respond to everything to the best of your logical ability; defend your post if you believe you're right, and accept the contrary if you're wrong.

 

 

 

What you are doing, sir, is forcibly pushing your stereotype down our gullet without every giving a single thought to "heh, maybe he's right. Perhaps there are mods who don't think they're the bets thing since sliced bread and actually accept the duties of a pmod for the betterment of runescape." Regardless if a pmod has the exact same powers in reporting (aside from mutes), that silver crown is a status symbol. Just being a pmod can make players stop misbehaving without any action on the pmod's part.

[fenrir321]

 

If reporting was their main method, at least they could look at report quality and behavior related to them. While you say it would be difficult to monitor players through reports at least reports gave something quick to read. This is going to give Jagex A LOT of work because they have to monitor all those names and there isn't an easy way such as through reports.

 

 

True, but at the same time you can't disprove that Jagex gives a "very long" amount of time, making the argument a moot point. Granted, "long time" is relative, but since someone's word is the most valuable thing one can possess and Jagex's interests do not include lying to their playerbase, I'd say you can trust their judgment.

 

Just me playing DA...

 

 

I luvs playing devil's advocate \

 

It's fun, rite? 8-)

[Alg]

 

If reporting was their main method, at least they could look at report quality and behavior related to them. While you say it would be difficult to monitor players through reports at least reports gave something quick to read. This is going to give Jagex A LOT of work because they have to monitor all those names and there isn't an easy way such as through reports.

 

 

True, but at the same time you can't disprove that Jagex gives a "very long" amount of time, making the argument a moot point. Granted, "long time" is relative, but since someone's word is the most valuable thing one can possess and Jagex's interests do not include lying to their playerbase, I'd say you can trust their judgment.

 

The GE is player controlled. The font was changed accidentally. That guy didn't really lose 300m from an MA bug (later apologized OMG!), there would be bans for anyone that abused the infinite penguin and movement bugs.

 

That said, you're probably right. Though it's terrifying to assume that they wouldn't be thorough on something as important as these requests.

 

Just me playing DA...

 

 

I luvs playing devil's advocate \

 

It's fun, rite? 8-)

 

Extremely \

[Guest]

 

I can't believe you had the audacity to accuse anybody else of not reading the arguments when you blatantly ignored all but the first paragraph of this post. (Which I think is a very fair, evenhanded, and persuasive post; kudos, randox.)

 

 

 

No I didn't. I read it and it paints a picture of poor baby mods who have a rough time of things, hence the comment about why pmods prefer not to disempower themselves. It didn't bring anything new to the debate.

[Guest]

 

Do you have any idea what the words on your response even mean? Not say, anybody who can read the English language can vomit out words like a parrot and make as much sense as you just did. This what your response means:

 

You first paragraph is the only relevant part of your post: the crown is an icon of superiority.

 

 

 

If moderators don't want to carry the burden of being constantly harrassed by other players with questions and the like, then they can always return the badge for no penalty. But sadly, absolutely no player mod would want to do this because every player mod only cares about power and authority

 

Yep. If life is so hard then those poor, poor mods can always hand the crown back. Do they? No! Reason? You tell me.

 

And please, save the superiority attitude for those who care.

 

 

 

 

That's what your response means. Your lack of detailed words regrettably leaves us readers to assume that you used "blanket" words like "all" or "every" or "none" or "nothing". Just for practicality and future reference, when you use those words, you are setting yourself up for failure unless you have the proof to back it up. All it takes is one person to prove you wrong. "But it's just one person..." Well, that one person just declared your whole response to be a pile of ignorance and negative stereotypes without them actually having to do anything except exist.

 

What crap. I've backed up my posts with evidence, so I'm sure you've read the right things, and *shock horror* I'm not the only one who thinks it. You're going to have to do a lot better than that. All my evidence is in this post, which includes Jagex themselves and some very peculiar answers from pmods. Wheres yours?

 

 

 

 

And just for another future reference, when you debate, you actively listen to the opposing argument and respond to everything to the best of your logical ability; defend your post if you believe you're right, and accept the contrary if you're wrong.

 

I do. When you come out with something to acknowledge, I'll do it.

 

 

 

 

What you are doing, sir, is forcibly pushing your stereotype down our gullet without every giving a single thought to "heh, maybe he's right. Perhaps there are mods who don't think they're the bets thing since sliced bread and actually accept the duties of a pmod for the betterment of runescape." Regardless if a pmod has the exact same powers in reporting (aside from mutes), that silver crown is a status symbol. Just being a pmod can make players stop misbehaving without any action on the pmod's part.

 

 

 

No, you're entitled to disagree any time you want. Does that mean I have to agree? No, it doesn't. If you've read this post properly you will have already seen I have said there are a minority of mods who do the job properly. Now you admit the crown is a status symbol. How many you think would do the job without it?

[Guest]

^ You mean you expected anything less?

 

This from a guy who doesn't even believe the pmod process is changing and admits himself he's struggling with the new system :roll:

 

 

 

 

And how many of those 5470 or so would actually qualify for modship? How many are status seekers who see this as an easy trip to a crown? How many have no idea what a mod really does? How many would abuse whatever power they can get right away?

 

If reporting was their main method, at least they could look at report quality and behavior related to them. While you say it would be difficult to monitor players through reports at least reports gave something quick to read. This is going to give Jagex A LOT of work because they have to monitor all those names and there isn't an easy way such as through reports.

 

Just me playing DA...

 

You're still having trouble accepting the none reporting method lmao. You really are in some form of denial aren't you? Is this now an admittance that you got your modship on the basis of reporting players or you still in denial over this too?

 

 

 

Analysing players for their 'qualities' - dealing with others, helpfulness, their approach to the game etc. is the way to go, not someone who gets a kick out of reporting players. If you have a problem with player analysis then you have real issues about change. How you can favour reports over this is ridiculous.

 

 

 

Jagex might not even look at the whole crop but select a portion of it and look at those players. I would imagine the wannabe's will be weeded out by their applications in what they say and how they say it in their statements, just like a RL job interview. So in effect out of 5000, they may select 700 based on statements alone and take it from there.

[Erewhon2]

If reporting was their main method, at least they could look at report quality and behavior related to them. While you say it would be difficult to monitor players through reports at least reports gave something quick to read. This is going to give Jagex A LOT of work because they have to monitor all those names and there isn't an easy way such as through reports.

 

I know you said you were playing DA but there is no way that reports give any evidence on which to base an assessment of quality.....clicking a button is all it is. There is nothing to indicate any benefit from the historical method of selecting pmods. As Est0rrath stated in an earlier post, reporting can be done by any player. Please note for evidence this post by cheeseater, on page 14 of this thread, clearly showing that reporting (however excessively) is done by clicking a button, nothing else. It also reiterates the worst case scenario of poor pmod behaviour. :thumbdown:

 

cheeseater:

 

Here's a vid of how carefully Jagex selects their mods.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lord_Shalaj]

I was just skimming through this thread after a while, and this line really made me chuckle. :P

 

 

 

What crap. I've backed up my posts with evidence

 

 

 

Thanks..

 

Lord Shalaj

[Guest]

I was just skimming through this thread after a while, and this line really made me chuckle. :P

 

 

 

What crap. I've backed up my posts with evidence

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks..

 

Lord Shalaj

 

 

 

Where was yours? ;)

[Alg]

^ You mean you expected anything less?

 

This from a guy who doesn't even believe the pmod process is changing and admits himself he's struggling with the new system :roll:

 

Sorry, YOU were the one saying I didn't believe it was changing. I responded each time by saying that all I disagreed with in it was the part about reports, and that it is the most unimportant part of it. If I'm struggling with the new system it's because I haven't seen anything I could do to help it and most people I have contact with still think it's the old system.

 

 

 

 

And how many of those 5470 or so would actually qualify for modship? How many are status seekers who see this as an easy trip to a crown? How many have no idea what a mod really does? How many would abuse whatever power they can get right away?

 

If reporting was their main method, at least they could look at report quality and behavior related to them. While you say it would be difficult to monitor players through reports at least reports gave something quick to read. This is going to give Jagex A LOT of work because they have to monitor all those names and there isn't an easy way such as through reports.

 

Just me playing DA...

 

You're still having trouble accepting the none reporting method lmao. You really are in some form of denial aren't you? Is this now an admittance that you got your modship on the basis of reporting players or you still in denial over this too?

 

...What? That isn't the issue in this post. You sound like you're just regurgitating the same answers regardless of whether or not they're relevant. What was this? A chance to take a personal attack, or did you just ignore the post's content?

 

 

 

Analysing players for their 'qualities' - dealing with others, helpfulness, their approach to the game etc. is the way to go, not someone who gets a kick out of reporting players. If you have a problem with player analysis then you have real issues about change. How you can favour reports over this is ridiculous.

 

Once again, reporting was not the issue. If you can't even stay on topic what are you doing here?

 

 

 

Jagex might not even look at the whole crop but select a portion of it and look at those players. I would imagine the wannabe's will be weeded out by their applications in what they say and how they say it in their statements, just like a RL job interview. So in effect out of 5000, they may select 700 based on statements alone and take it from there.

 

Didn't I make a similar point a few pages back? That out of every player in the game the criteria they previously had could narrow it down greatly? Didn't you either ignore my point about that or suggest that it wouldn't work?

 

If they pick players solely on the statements in the thread it'll be a disaster when the people do get their crowns. If they take the time to monitor each and every player it'll be the impractical waste of manpower you said would have come from modding based on anything other than just reports. Weeding out a majority of players and monitoring the rest is the same thing I proposed a few pages back.

 

As for the video...

 

That is a bad egg who was trying to get banned. If he isn't a hacker he's about as much a representative tor the other few thousand mods as a member of the KKK is to the rest of North America. If he is a hacker he would not be indicative of the community anyway. Since he took the time to make a video with such a title, then went to talk about how he was going to get the account banned, I am assuming him to be a hacker.

[Troacctid]

 

I can't believe you had the audacity to accuse anybody else of not reading the arguments when you blatantly ignored all but the first paragraph of this post. (Which I think is a very fair, evenhanded, and persuasive post; kudos, randox.)

 

 

 

No I didn't. I read it and it paints a picture of poor baby mods who have a rough time of things, hence the comment about why pmods prefer not to disempower themselves. It didn't bring anything new to the debate.

 

If you read the entire post, then that's even worse, because it means you intentionally misinterpreted it. Example:

 

Many mods however, see the crown not as a symbol, but as a tool. The crown goes a long way to difusing a tense situation if the mod can choose the right words. It can distract people so well that a political conversation thats about to turn into a verbal nuclear war will stop dead in its tracks. The crown can call BS on scammers.

Dare I say it? This paragraph really answers the debate. Purpose.

[Sir_Kurity]

I think its purpose and status, far more about status than purpose though. Thats the only situation in which a crown might be useful, and even then both the people who were arguing will just be pissed at the mod and argue some other way, through PM or in another area.

[Alg]

I think its purpose and status, far more about status than purpose though. Thats the only situation in which a crown might be useful, and even then both the people who were arguing will just be pissed at the mod and argue some other way, through PM or in another area.

 

I frequently request for people arguing to take it up in PM. I can't make them stop unless one crosses the line so I may as well get them to continue their argument where it wouldn't disturb others. Usually the fear of getting muted would work to do at least that without having to actually mute, and that works well enough for me.

 

Jrhairychest or Erewhon2 brought up an interesting point about power, though. Their implications, I may not agree with, but I can say that the power to do something about rulebreaking is part of the reason I haven't left yet. Sure, I could report the rulebreaker, but there are a good amount of horror stories about rulebreakers that are not punished, or I could ignore list him/her, but that does nothing to the other players who might be offended or be scammed.

 

I'm expecting accusations of being power hungry or power tripping, but that doesn't mean I can't at least try to use the power for good, can I?

[Sir_Kurity]

With an ignore list, no one really needs mutes, and thus if you don't like the argument you can ignore them, and if you don't mind it, you dont need to ignore them.

 

 

 

And as for them arguing, as far as im concerned or anyone else is concerned they can argue among themselves all they want.

[Guest]

 

Sorry, YOU were the one saying I didn't believe it was changing. I responded each time by saying that all I disagreed with in it was the part about reports, and that it is the most unimportant part of it. If I'm struggling with the new system it's because I haven't seen anything I could do to help it and most people I have contact with still think it's the old system.

 

Yes you tried to play down that reports as if it didnt really matter, even though it was a focal point of the debate from the very start. You even came round to the idea it got you noticed, still denying it was the major factor, and I challenged that, stating you dont get picked randomly for pmod for which you had no viable answer. You even suggested the Jagex post was more a public relations exercise. I asked you to challenge it with Jagex You didnt want to take up the offer of this. You backed out. You never once provided one shred of evidence to prove their post was to the contrary.

 

If people are still pmodding as if its the old system, why are they not READING their guidelines? You claim youve been aware of it for weeks, so why arent others? And why cant you do anything to help it?

 

...What? That isn't the issue in this post. You sound like you're just regurgitating the same answers regardless of whether or not they're relevant. What was this? A chance to take a personal attack, or did you just ignore the post's content?

 

In regards to the posts content, in this very post you said in present tense in your own words as if it was a suggestion:

 

If reporting was their main method, at least they could look at report quality and behavior related to them.

 

Really? And where am I personally attacking you?

 

Once again, reporting was not the issue. If you can't even stay on topic what are you doing here?

 

I draw you again to your statement above regarding your comments on reporting.

 

Didn't I make a similar point a few pages back? That out of every player in the game the criteria they previously had could narrow it down greatly? Didn't you either ignore my point about that or suggest that it wouldn't work?

 

You said this:

 

Let's say of all active players at the given time they discount the players who have had recent offenses and no serious past offenses, have been hacked, or are new to the game. That narrows it down a lot. Then perhaps you can look at reports to get an idea of how the player is and watch the ones that shine there. That leaves a much smaller portion, which only gets smaller because some players will not take the offer.

 

It would have been good except for the bit in bold. At no time at all did you mention the player themselves. Youre obsessed with reporting as if its the most important thing in RS! You keep forgetting about the move away from reporting players and the end of iron fist rule. What sort of person are you to keep wanting players to be reported, instead of getting on with the game?

 

 

If they pick players solely on the statements in the thread it'll be a disaster when the people do get their crowns. If they take the time to monitor each and every player it'll be the impractical waste of manpower you said would have come from modding based on anything other than just reports. Weeding out a majority of players and monitoring the rest is the same thing I proposed a few pages back.

 

I think Jagex have a few ideas in mind when they vet these people. After all, from what you tell me you dont have much of a clue whats going on, and neither do many other pmods for that matter going off what you said about guidelines.

 

 

As for the video...

 

That is a bad egg who was trying to get banned. If he isn't a hacker he's about as much a representative tor the other few thousand mods as a member of the KKK is to the rest of North America. If he is a hacker he would not be indicative of the community anyway. Since he took the time to make a video with such a title, then went to talk about how he was going to get the account banned, I am assuming him to be a hacker.

 

Youre assuming him to be a hackerNot just a poor example of the pmod community? Im always being asked for evidence in this thread, so wheres yours to say he is a hacker?

[Guest]

 

If you read the entire post, then that's even worse, because it means you intentionally misinterpreted it. Example:

 

Many mods however, see the crown not as a symbol, but as a tool. The crown goes a long way to difusing a tense situation if the mod can choose the right words. It can distract people so well that a political conversation thats about to turn into a verbal nuclear war will stop dead in its tracks. The crown can call BS on scammers.

 

Dare I say it? This paragraph really answers the debate. Purpose.

 

 

 

This is a POV. In which case I draw you to the attention of this I posted to you a while back from pmod mmmcannibalism

 

 

 

 

Would as many people try to get modship if it didnt have a crown, probably not. Even if a mod didnt care one bit about the status most of them would be upset because its like taking away a reward. If there were never crowns then I wouldnt be on the front lines fighting to add them

 

 

 

If you can take a POV and say 'this is it!' then so can I. Status.

[Guest]

I think its purpose and status, far more about status than purpose though. Thats the only situation in which a crown might be useful, and even then both the people who were arguing will just be pissed at the mod and argue some other way, through PM or in another area.

 

I frequently request for people arguing to take it up in PM. I can't make them stop unless one crosses the line so I may as well get them to continue their argument where it wouldn't disturb others. Usually the fear of getting muted would work to do at least that without having to actually mute, and that works well enough for me.

 

Jrhairychest or Erewhon2 brought up an interesting point about power, though. Their implications, I may not agree with, but I can say that the power to do something about rulebreaking is part of the reason I haven't left yet. Sure, I could report the rulebreaker, but there are a good amount of horror stories about rulebreakers that are not punished, or I could ignore list him/her, but that does nothing to the other players who might be offended or be scammed.

 

I'm expecting accusations of being power hungry or power tripping, but that doesn't mean I can't at least try to use the power for good, can I?

 

 

 

Actually, you're answering your own questions so I'm happy for you to hang yourself with your own rope :D

[Guest]

With an ignore list, no one really needs mutes, and thus if you don't like the argument you can ignore them, and if you don't mind it, you dont need to ignore them.

 

 

 

And as for them arguing, as far as im concerned or anyone else is concerned they can argue among themselves all they want.

 

 

 

It seems we are not intelligent enough to use our own ignore lists. Apparently we need pmods to get rid of all the nasty people who say naughty things and spout websites at us.

[Expl0de]

I think that it's more of a sign of good will from Jagex; that they'd let some players be The Law. This way, their regular mods can focus on other, more important things. Just a guess though.

[Erewhon2]

Lets see if we can narrow this down, some interesting posts and some strong feelings. As you will have gathered I strongly feel that being a pmod is about status, whether in the old 'reporting' system or the new 'role model' system.

 

 

 

So lets take out the 'reporting' bit and the new criteria, take out all the tantrums and tears.

 

 

 

I would still challenge you....why do you want to be a pmod? To help people? This is a game! Anyone can help others, its not like going to see a social worker and you need an appointment to see the specialist, and there are good fan sites including this one as well as an excellent manual on the RS site itself.

 

 

 

So I ask again.....why do you want to be a pmod? :shame:

 

 

 

Earning a pmod crown or even wanting to be a pmod is all about status. My one concession is that the new role will at least provide some service however unnecessary it may be.

[fenrir321]

 

Do you have any idea what the words on your response even mean? Not say, anybody who can read the English language can vomit out words like a parrot and make as much sense as you just did. This what your response means:

 

You first paragraph is the only relevant part of your post: the crown is an icon of superiority.

 

 

 

If moderators don't want to carry the burden of being constantly harrassed by other players with questions and the like, then they can always return the badge for no penalty. But sadly, absolutely no player mod would want to do this because every player mod only cares about power and authority

 

Yep. If life is so hard then those poor, poor mods can always hand the crown back. Do they? No! Reason? You tell me.

 

And please, save the superiority attitude for those who care.

 

I have no superior attitude. I am frank, but not arrogant. And I know a few people who have been mods and accidentally eavesdropped on some people to know that some mods do hand back the crown.

 

 

That's what your response means. Your lack of detailed words regrettably leaves us readers to assume that you used "blanket" words like "all" or "every" or "none" or "nothing". Just for practicality and future reference, when you use those words, you are setting yourself up for failure unless you have the proof to back it up. All it takes is one person to prove you wrong. "But it's just one person..." Well, that one person just declared your whole response to be a pile of ignorance and negative stereotypes without them actually having to do anything except exist.

 

What crap. I've backed up my posts with evidence, so I'm sure you've read the right things, and *shock horror* I'm not the only one who thinks it. You're going to have to do a lot better than that. All my evidence is in this post, which includes Jagex themselves and some very peculiar answers from pmods. Wheres yours?

 

Be more specific; I don't feel like looking through 20 pages haphazardly without a table of contents. Steinbeck did that enough in the Grapes of Wrath. If you really care for your points and wish to defend them to the best of your ability, then at least give a page number if not post number to direct people to the transcript.

 

 

 

There's also a logical fallacy that deals with "It's true because one said so". It does not matter if Jagex is a perfect child and never lies; the act that they said so does not make the statement true; the statement is validated somewhere else. If you can direct me to the quotes you quoted, I would be very grateful to see what Jagex has to say on the matter, but the quote does not make that true. It merely increases the probability of the validity.

 

 

 

 

And just for another future reference, when you debate, you actively listen to the opposing argument and respond to everything to the best of your logical ability; defend your post if you believe you're right, and accept the contrary if you're wrong.

 

I do. When you come out with something to acknowledge, I'll do it.

 

In all seriousness, post a criterion or two that tells what makes something (to you) worthy of being acknowledged. Randox has a perfectly good, detailed response, and you merely summarized it instead of picking it apart like you did mine.

 

 

 

 

What you are doing, sir, is forcibly pushing your stereotype down our gullet without every giving a single thought to "heh, maybe he's right. Perhaps there are mods who don't think they're the bets thing since sliced bread and actually accept the duties of a pmod for the betterment of runescape." Regardless if a pmod has the exact same powers in reporting (aside from mutes), that silver crown is a status symbol. Just being a pmod can make players stop misbehaving without any action on the pmod's part.

 

 

 

No, you're entitled to disagree any time you want. Does that mean I have to agree? No, it doesn't. If you've read this post properly you will have already seen I have said there are a minority of mods who do the job properly. Now you admit the crown is a status symbol. How many you think would do the job without it?

 

 

 

 

 

If pmods find the crown such a burden they can always demod themselves. But alas, its losing power isn't it and they wouldn't want that.

 

This sentence that you wrote lacks detail. I could add several "all"'s to the sentence and although it would be less palpable, it would mean exactly the same. I never said you couldn't disagree. When you take a very long response like Randox's and then ignore perhaps 80% of it to prove a point, many people (including myself) will say, "Wow, he's picking out the things that support his rant and ignoring the stuff that goes against it." Regardless if your were doing just that or for another reasonable reason, that's what the action says politically. When Hannibal was crossing through the alps and burned the estates, he skipped the head general's. Why? Well, that caused internal political discord, and the general had to prove his verity by selling the estate that was spared. I'm going to assume that you mean well; that assumption on my part was uncalled for and I apologize. In politics (which spans a wide range of topics, not constrained to just government), you have to choose your words carefully. And from where I'm standing, you say that in the other pages, you have acknowledged that there are a small minority of good mods, but with the statement I just quoted, that doesn't seem evident at all.

 

 

 

Off my small, relevant tangent: one could argue that everything is a status symbol. If I play runescape, I'm most likely a kid who can't afford other games or some adult that just wants to mess around without paying anything. If I play wow, I'm a nerd who is geeky or I am a crack addict who can't without WoW and would sell my soul to the devil for another month of membership. If I'm an American, I'm probably arrogant and boisterous. If I like anime and am American, I am (in my experience) either really nerdy and on the level of the generic, pimply fanboy who goes to every single convention about the subject or I like the style of porn (this one I find more prevalent amongst girls surprisingly).

 

I've basically described everyting about myself and the above stereotypes are not true about me. Well, I might be a geek, but doing sports counteracts that, right? :oops:

 

What does this have to do with status symbols? If you're a cop, chances are you are white, have average income, and can get your head in the air depending on how high you are on the totem pole. Now, the difference between a status symbol and a stereotype is that you can achieve a status symbol pretty easily (compared to "permanent" stereotypes that have to do with gender, race, or religion).

 

Therefore, since several if not every thing can be a status symbol, you can ignore the crown being a "status" symbol in some facets. It comes with power, but I'm sure that people that are corrupt want the power not the crown; the two are independent. Those people want the power and the luxury to flaunt it. If there were "invisible" mods, I think that even more people would want the power so as to "gank" "rule breakers".

 

 

 

To answer your final question, I theorize that some people would simply yell, "I'm a mod!" and then prove it by abusing their power or they would simply just brag about it and then ban people who would talk smack about them since the mod would be telling the truth. It would cause tremendous problems. But ignoring those problems, it would do more good since responsible mods would be able to talk with random people without being treated as a celebrity.

 

 

 

Again, I apologize for the rash assumption and am ing the text right now to show that I recant what I said.

[Alg]

Blah, quote tag soup

 

 

Sorry, YOU were the one saying I didn't believe it was changing. I responded each time by saying that all I disagreed with in it was the part about reports, and that it is the most unimportant part of it. If I'm struggling with the new system it's because I haven't seen anything I could do to help it and most people I have contact with still think it's the old system.

 

Yes you tried to play down that reports as if it didnt really matter, even though it was a focal point of the debate from the very start. You even came round to the idea it got you noticed, still denying it was the major factor, and I challenged that, stating you dont get picked randomly for pmod for which you had no viable answer. You even suggested the Jagex post was more a public relations exercise. I asked you to challenge it with Jagex You didnt want to take up the offer of this. You backed out. You never once provided one shred of evidence to prove their post was to the contrary.

 

If people are still pmodding as if its the old system, why are they not READING their guidelines? You claim youve been aware of it for weeks, so why arent others? And why cant you do anything to help it?

 

The only difference between a mod and any other player is the mute option, which is a part of the report system. For reports not to be a factor even in a new system would be absurd, like it or not. I never said that it is what "got [me] noticed", you quoted that bit, and my assumption of the idea s that they could look at reports to see if a player. I said I said "Then perhaps you can look at reports to get an idea of how the player is and watch the ones that shine there", meaning after all is said and done, you see who properly uses the report system before giving an expanded role in it.

 

I still pmod with the old system because there is still a place for it. Rulebreaking does still exist, and as I said before, ignore lists do not actually solve the problem because not everyone just ignores the player in question and gets on with their lives. Rulebreakers do not target players that will just ignore them, they target the ones that won't.

 

What should I be doing to get more involved in the community? I'm a part at least two, I'm in a clan, and I don't hide from the rest of the world unless I'm training a skill that works that way. What more is there to do?

 

 

...What? That isn't the issue in this post. You sound like you're just regurgitating the same answers regardless of whether or not they're relevant. What was this? A chance to take a personal attack, or did you just ignore the post's content?

 

In regards to the posts content, in this very post you said in present tense in your own words as if it was a suggestion:

 

If reporting was their main method, at least they could look at report quality and behavior related to them.

 

Really? And where am I personally attacking you?

 

Well, if I'm not agreeing with you I'm in denial, and that I enjoy reporting players. Not sure what else you'd call that.

 

 

Once again, reporting was not the issue. If you can't even stay on topic what are you doing here?

 

I draw you again to your statement above regarding your comments on reporting.

 

 

Didn't I make a similar point a few pages back? That out of every player in the game the criteria they previously had could narrow it down greatly? Didn't you either ignore my point about that or suggest that it wouldn't work?

 

You said this:

 

Let's say of all active players at the given time they discount the players who have had recent offenses and no serious past offenses, have been hacked, or are new to the game. That narrows it down a lot. Then perhaps you can look at reports to get an idea of how the player is and watch the ones that shine there. That leaves a much smaller portion, which only gets smaller because some players will not take the offer.

 

It would have been good except for the bit in bold. At no time at all did you mention the player themselves. Youre obsessed with reporting as if its the most important thing in RS! You keep forgetting about the move away from reporting players and the end of iron fist rule. What sort of person are you to keep wanting players to be reported, instead of getting on with the game?

 

 

You keep forgetting that the example is how I imagined their selection process to be. Because like it or not, as long as there's a mute feature there's going to be at least some focus on reporting.

 

I could have sworn I did mention the players themselves. Are you sure that part wasn't cut out?

 

Either way I assume that was a feature because a lot of the mods modded before the shift were active in their respective communities, including some of the users here that could be called famous. This was before the shift.

 

 

 

If they pick players solely on the statements in the thread it'll be a disaster when the people do get their crowns. If they take the time to monitor each and every player it'll be the impractical waste of manpower you said would have come from modding based on anything other than just reports. Weeding out a majority of players and monitoring the rest is the same thing I proposed a few pages back.

 

I think Jagex have a few ideas in mind when they vet these people. After all, from what you tell me you dont have much of a clue whats going on, and neither do many other pmods for that matter going off what you said about guidelines.

 

I don't have a clue, yet when I make a statement about reports you take it seriously? Make up your mind, am I usually a reliable source or only when it benefits you?

 

 

 

As for the video...

 

That is a bad egg who was trying to get banned. If he isn't a hacker he's about as much a representative tor the other few thousand mods as a member of the KKK is to the rest of North America. If he is a hacker he would not be indicative of the community anyway. Since he took the time to make a video with such a title, then went to talk about how he was going to get the account banned, I am assuming him to be a hacker.

 

Youre assuming him to be a hackerNot just a poor example of the pmod community? Im always being asked for evidence in this thread, so wheres yours to say he is a hacker?

 

What player would videotape him/herself saying that they want to get an account banned? What player would title a video of him/herself doing this and naming it "pmod goes crazy and mutes varrock"? It's too absurd to be the account's owner.

 

I think its purpose and status, far more about status than purpose though. Thats the only situation in which a crown might be useful, and even then both the people who were arguing will just be pissed at the mod and argue some other way, through PM or in another area.

 

I frequently request for people arguing to take it up in PM. I can't make them stop unless one crosses the line so I may as well get them to continue their argument where it wouldn't disturb others. Usually the fear of getting muted would work to do at least that without having to actually mute, and that works well enough for me.

 

Jrhairychest or Erewhon2 brought up an interesting point about power, though. Their implications, I may not agree with, but I can say that the power to do something about rulebreaking is part of the reason I haven't left yet. Sure, I could report the rulebreaker, but there are a good amount of horror stories about rulebreakers that are not punished, or I could ignore list him/her, but that does nothing to the other players who might be offended or be scammed.

 

I'm expecting accusations of being power hungry or power tripping, but that doesn't mean I can't at least try to use the power for good, can I?

 

 

 

Actually, you're answering your own questions so I'm happy for you to hang yourself with your own rope :D

 

I admitted that I use whatever purpose there is in the moderator role for what I feel is the greater good, namely keeping the game from becoming an RSOF rants thread. I previously admitted to hating the status that came with modding. What rope am I hanging myself with?

 

 

 

Would you mind providing evidence to your statement that most mods are in it for the status? I'll happily dig out evidence that used to be in the knowledge base and still is in the town criers and lumbridge guide if yours is sufficient.

[Erewhon2]

fenrir321....I have to say I am disappointed with your post as the majority of it focuses on the rules and regulations of how you would like someone to debate with you. If people are rude or completely missing the point is one thing, but to spend most of the post setting out guidelines so someone is 'worthy' to debate with you is not comfortable or appropriate. So I am only picking up those elements that are relevant.

 

I would be very grateful to see what Jagex has to say on the matter

 

Please see below:

 

http://devblog.runescape.com/view_post. ... =20&page=1

 

 

 

I would also suggest you stop equating RS with RL, it isn't and never will be RL, it is a virtual world that is run by Jagex as a business and they play the role of 'The Almighty' here. I kept my last post very simple and to the point, yet both you and a_local_guy have failed to respond to the simple question. Please don't give me this patronising 'to help people' or:

for what I feel is the greater good

 

This is a game!!! As I said in my post which you have both ignored, anyone can help and I have always offered my help freely to those that asked. Why does it have to be a pmod? So therefore it is irrelevant whether you abuse the power or not, it is still about and purely for status.