So really what I am arguing with you about is the idea that logically reasoning and coming to logical conclusions is the same thing as responding appropriately based on logical conclusions. I am saying that they aren't any more the same than a note on a sheet of music can itself be the sound that we hear coming from a piano.

So really what I am arguing with you about is the idea that logically reasoning and coming to logical conclusions is the same thing as responding appropriately based on logical conclusions. I am saying that they aren't any more the same than a note on a sheet of music can itself be the sound that we hear coming from a piano.

 

 

 

They are both psychological maturity which is the point here. If you disagree with one of them, then you disagree that psychological maturity exists.

 

 

 

No, actually you said, "No, they can't" to "kids can behave and think mature".

 

 

 

Does denying what's right in front of your face really make you think you have any argument? This is a serious question. I want to know. Why do you contradict yourself so much? Why can't you admit one stupid little mistake?

 

 

 

This is where you said that they are the same thing.

 

 

No, I didn't. I responded to a long post where the OP referred to physical and psychological maturity together. Why can't you accept that and move on?

 

 

 

 

Are you guys unconditional friends or something? Cause I'm seriously wondering 1. why you care 2. why you are making the same exact mistake he's making.

 

Never heard of him before this thread. But I've heard that there's this odd phenomenon where two people can agree with each other

 

 

 

 

 

 

In the context we're talking about (psychological maturity), they are. They are both psychological maturity. Wikipedia points that out. Case closed.

 

 

 

For people who cry about taking things out of context, you sure do it a lot.

 

Just because they are both psychological doesn't make them inextricably linked - and on the opposite end of the spectrum, physical and psychological are certainly not completely separate. It's time you looked at the issue as a whole, not each sentences as a completely independent thought or idea :roll:

No, I didn't. I responded to a long post where the OP referred to physical and psychological maturity together. Why can't you accept that and move on?

 

 

 

Yes, he mentioned them both BECAUSE HE WAS TRYING TO POINT OUT THE ONE HE WAS TALKING ABOUT - PSYCHOLOGICAL - NOT PHYSICAL!

 

 

 

Just because they are both psychological doesn't make them inextricably linked - and on the opposite end of the spectrum, physical and psychological are certainly not completely separate. It's time you looked at the issue as a whole, not each sentences as a completely independent thought or idea :roll:

 

 

 

Who said anything about them being inextricably linked? Either read what said about context, or don't cry about people taking you out of context. All I said was they are both psychological maturity.

So really what I am arguing with you about is the idea that logically reasoning and coming to logical conclusions is the same thing as responding appropriately based on logical conclusions. I am saying that they aren't any more the same than a note on a sheet of music can itself be the sound that we hear coming from a piano.

 

 

 

They are both psychological maturity which is the point here. If you disagree with one of them, then you disagree that psychological maturity exists.

 

 

 

That is not the case. They are both coined by psychology as maturity, but that does not mean that they are the same thing. Reasoning based on logic is based on intelligence, it is takes maturity, yes, to be able to do. Maturity of intelligence, which is linked to brain development. Acting on those reasonings is not the same thing as the reasonings themselves. If you agree with that statement then we are arguing over nothing.

You skipped over what I said about context obviously. Please put things into context before you cry about others taking things out of context.

 

 

 

And how many times do I have to copy and paste for you guys to read one tiny thing:

 

 

 

not determined by one's age

 

 

 

Psychological maturity =/= age

 

Thinking carefully + Responding appropriately = Psychological maturity

 

Thinking carefully + Responding appropriately =/= age

 

 

 

Yes, he mentioned them both BECAUSE HE WAS TRYING TO POINT OUT THE ONE HE WAS TALKING ABOUT - PSYCHOLOGICAL - NOT PHYSICAL!

 

 

Nope, both of them are tied together. You seem to be having a hard time grasping that concept.

 

 

 

 

Who said anything about them being inextricably linked? Either read what said about context, or don't cry about people taking you out of context. All I said was they are both psychological maturity.

 

I did. Wikipedia says it best: "The relationship between psychological maturity and age is a difficult one."

And you have failed miserably to uphold your supposed "logic" in this argument. There is nothing logical about trying to convince me that reasoning and actions based on reasoning are the same thing. You might as well try to convince me that the word air, is actually itself the air.

They are but not "in and of themselves". In the context of maturity, they mean the same thing.

 

 

 

Are you guys unconditional friends or something? Cause I'm seriously wondering 1. why you care 2. why you are making the same exact mistake he's making.

 

 

 

And no, actually we've never met, I just happen to like arguing from the side that is correct. compfreak just happens to like the same apparently.

Nope, both of them are tied together. You seem to be having a hard time grasping that concept.

 

 

 

You're ignoring Wikipedia: not determined by one's age

 

 

 

I did. Wikipedia says it best: "The relationship between psychological maturity and age is a difficult one."

 

 

 

That proves my point even more.

 

 

 

And you have failed miserably to uphold your supposed "logic" in this argument. There is nothing logical about trying to convince me that reasoning and actions based on reasoning are the same thing. You might as well try to convince me that the word air, is actually itself the air.

 

 

 

And you failed at reading anything I said. Put it in context, for the millionth time. It will come to you eventually, once you mature.

College calls, I'm afraid that I have no more time to spend on this, the rest has to go to my studies. As much as I have enjoyed pointing out the flaws in your logic, I'm sure compfreak will adequately continue in my absence. I probably won't be back on this site for a week because of midterms so if this thread is still going after I'm done I doubt I will get back involved due to the time it would take to read the dozens of pages you two would undoubtably add during that time.

 

 

 

Z, if you ever manage to prove that you're right, I will buy you a cookie.

 

 

 

edit

 

 

 

"And you failed at reading anything I said. Put it in context, for the millionth time. It will come to you eventually, once you mature."

 

 

 

If you honestly think that anything I have said has taken your words out of context then you need to look up what that phrase means, all you have done in this thread is taken a position against all logic and reasoning and acted inappropriately in response to that. If anything you have displayed more immaturity in your logic and reasoning in this post and in your actions that followed than I could hope to amass in my entire life time. But thank you for trying.

College calls, I'm afraid that I have no more time to spend on this, the rest has to go to my studies. As much as I have enjoyed pointing out the flaws in your logic, I'm sure compfreak will adequately continue in my absence. I probably won't be back on this site for a week because of midterms so if this thread is still going after I'm done I doubt I will get back involved due to the time it would take to read the dozens of pages you two would undoubtably add during that time.

 

 

 

Z, if you ever manage to prove that you're right, I will buy you a cookie.

 

 

 

If you ever manage to prove yourself right, then I'll believe that you're a college student. But until then, that privilege is only reserved for those who understand what even constitutes as logic. Fare well, red herring fisherman.

 

You're ignoring Wikipedia: not determined by one's age

 

That would indeed be what I said.

 

 

 

 

That proves my point even more.

 

 

Oh, so your point is that they ARE related? Good, now we agree.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And you failed at reading anything I said. Put it in context, for the millionth time. It will come to you eventually, once you mature.

 

Like I said, I'm at least halfway mature. Given that I'm more capable of long term decisions then my 6 year old daughter or my 12 year old son, I'm going to go with over halfway.

 

 

 

Then again, what would long term decision making have to do with putting your post in context? Sounds to me more like an attempted personal jab. Thankfully, I read everything you said, dissected it, and responded to it individually. Your welcome to disagree with each of the individual responses, I'll be eagerly awaiting your rebuttals.

That would indeed be what I said.

 

 

 

Then if it wasn't, specify instead of posting trash like that. It's not getting us anywhere in case you haven't noticed. But then again, I suppose you attempting to think logically in this debate hasn't gotten us anywhere neither. You may continue if you wish.

 

 

 

Oh, so your point is that they ARE related? Good, now we agree.

 

 

 

I'll play by your rules: "Yes, that's exactly what I said! :roll: :roll: "

 

 

 

Then again, what would long term decision making have to do with putting your post in context? Sounds to me more like an attempted personal jab. Thankfully, I read everything you said, dissected it, and responded to it individually. Your welcome to disagree with each of the individual responses, I'll be eagerly awaiting your rebuttals.

 

 

 

That was aimed at Jac. Just goes to show that you don't even read what's being posted.

 

 

 

---

 

 

 

I guess I have to get back on topic for like the 5th time since you seem so set on posting anything that looks like a rebuttal.

 

 

 

All that poster said was exactly what was quoted from Wikipedia. He said there are different types of maturities and that kids can even be mature. Wiki says maturity doesn't have to do with age. He was right, proof by Wiki.

College calls, I'm afraid that I have no more time to spend on this, the rest has to go to my studies. As much as I have enjoyed pointing out the flaws in your logic, I'm sure compfreak will adequately continue in my absence. I probably won't be back on this site for a week because of midterms so if this thread is still going after I'm done I doubt I will get back involved due to the time it would take to read the dozens of pages you two would undoubtably add during that time.

 

 

 

Z, if you ever manage to prove that you're right, I will buy you a cookie.

 

 

 

If you ever manage to prove yourself right, then I'll believe that you're a college student. But until then, that privilege is only reserved for those who understand what even constitutes as logic. Fare well, red herring fisherman.

 

 

 

I've already proven myself right, you just fail to realize it. Don't worry, you will when you mature and can understand that just because A+B=C doesn't mean that A=B. But that was probably too complex for you, take an asprin, it will help the inevitable headache.

I've already proven myself right, you just fail to realize it. Don't worry, you will when you mature and can understand that just because A+B=C doesn't mean that A=B. But that was probably too complex for you, take an asprin, it will help the inevitable headache.

 

 

 

First of all, they aren't being added together. A = C and B = C. Thinking carefully is psychological maturity and responding appropriately is psychological maturity. Therefore, they are both the same in the sense that they are both parts of psychological maturity. Stop making flaming posts like that when you're the one who doesn't even understand this concept.

 

 

 

Second of all, all you've proved is that you have a hard time with semantics and are oblivious to simple definitions and facts. Never admitting when you're wrong doesn't make you right, it just makes you prideful.

 

 

 

Oh, and you're being irrelevant... Again.

 

Then if it wasn't, specify instead of posting trash like that. It's not getting us anywhere in case you haven't noticed. But then again, I suppose you attempting to think logically in this debate hasn't gotten us anywhere neither. You may continue if you wish.

 

Alright, I'll try to continue with the logic. Let me know when you decide to go that route too.

 

 

 

 

I'll play by your rules: "Yes, that's exactly what I said! :roll: :roll: "

 

Good, then we're in complete agreement. Why are you continuing to post?

 

 

 

 

 

 

That was aimed at Jac. Just goes to show that you don't even read what's being posted.

 

 

Read it quite carefully, and it certainly applied to both of us - as did my response. Clearly, you wuold do better to respond to the arguments raised then try and bring up personal issues.

 

 

 

 

All that poster said was exactly what was quoted from Wikipedia. He said there are different types of maturities and that kids can even be mature. Wiki says maturity doesn't have to do with age. He was right, proof by Wiki.

 

Actually, wikipedia says they're related, as you agreed with earlier. Shall I repeat it for you? "The relationship between psychological maturity and age is a difficult one."

 

 

 

Since your having a difficult time comprehending the sentence structure, I figured I might as well grab another source. Here's an interesting quote from http://talbenshahar.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=28&Itemid=39: "There is, on the whole, a correlation between age and maturity. "

Alright, I'll try to continue with the logic. Let me know when you decide to go that route too.

 

 

 

That would be a nice witty little comeback, if I was only trying instead of actually succeeding at it.

 

 

 

Good, then we're in complete agreement. Why are you continuing to post?

 

 

 

Nope. Kids can think carefully about stuff. Only someone who doesn't think carefully themselves would say otherwise.

 

 

 

Read it quite carefully, and it certainly applied to both of us - as did my response. Clearly, you wuold do better to respond to the arguments raised then try and bring up personal issues.

 

 

 

Oh what? Now you're calling me a liar? I think I know what I meant more than you do. (Sounds familiar huh :lol: ?)

 

 

 

Actually, wikipedia says they're related, as you agreed with earlier. Shall I repeat it for you? "The relationship between psychological maturity and age is a difficult one."

 

 

 

Like I said several times, you're cherrypicking. You ignore the part where it says it isn't determined by age but you bring up the part where it says "the relationship is difficult" which means there is debate about it. Not necessarily that it exists. It's the same as the debate about god. Just because there is debate doesn't mean god exists.

I'm ignoring the immature personal 'insults', and focusing on the debate. It would probably be a good idea for you to do so too.

 

 

 

 

Like I said several times, you're cherrypicking. You ignore the part where it says it isn't determined by age but you bring up the part where it says "the relationship is difficult" which means there is debate about it. Not necessarily that it exists. It's the same as the debate about god. Just because there is debate doesn't mean god exists.

 

And your conveniently ignoring the fact that it never says that age has nothing to do with it. It says that it isn't directly dependent on age, yes. That doesn't mean it has nothing to do with it, as evidenced later in the article. There's also another interesting article:

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontal_lobe

 

 

 

I quote: "The executive functions of the frontal lobes involve the ability to recognize future consequences resulting from current actions, to choose between good and bad actions (or better and best), override and suppress unacceptable social responses, and determine similarities and differences between things or events.Therefore, it is involved in higher mental functions."

 

 

 

Yep, sounds an awfullll lot like those 'psychological maturity' thingies you were talking about. Let's look at another interesting sentence in that article:

 

 

 

"The frontal lobe reaches full maturity around age 25, marking the cognitive maturity associated with adulthood. "

 

 

 

That state rests, your honor.

And your conveniently ignoring the fact that it never says that age has nothing to do with it. It says that it isn't directly dependent on age, yes. That doesn't mean it has nothing to do with it, as evidenced later in the article. There's also another interesting article:

 

 

 

Which means there are cases where 10-year-old's can be sensible and think carefully - something which you have disagreed to. Children can exhibit psychologically mature qualities. You said they can't.

 

Which means there are cases where 10-year-old's can be sensible and think carefully - something which you have disagreed to. Children can exhibit psychologically mature qualities. You said they can't.

 

I see that you've given up on your previous argument. A little statement like 'sorry, you were right' would go a long way.

 

 

 

Now that we're back to the first argument:

 

 

 

That particular statement was tied into physical maturity, and was being responded to as such. Had you read the background behind it, you would have understood.

I see that you've given up on your previous argument.

 

 

 

This was my argument the whole time. You're the one who decided it would be fun to speak irrelevancies and use logical fallacies.

 

 

 

A little statement like 'sorry, you were right' would go a long way.

 

 

 

One could say the same about you. I know your type. You're "right" even when you're wrong. Even with arguments that aren't relevant, you showed that you don't accept you're wrong even when it's obvious.

 

 

 

That particular statement was tied into physical maturity, and was being responded to as such. Had you read the background behind it, you would have understood.

 

 

 

I read the background but it doesn't even have to do with the background. He was saying that you are talking about physical maturity and that he was talking about psychological, but you still said no kids can't be psychologically mature. You were wrong! They can be! You should have agreed with him. Just accept that and move on.

 

This was my argument the whole time. You're the one who decided it would be fun to speak irrelevancies and use logical fallacies.

 

Nope, the argument was about psychological maturity and how it tied into physical maturity.

 

 

 

 

One could say the same about you. I know your type. You're "right" even when you're wrong. Even with arguments that aren't relevant, you showed that you don't accept you're wrong even when it's obvious.

 

Feel free to show where I gave up an argument because I was proven wrong. It's happened before, though not on this thread, and I'm quick to admit when I'm wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I read the background but it doesn't even have to do with the background. He was saying that you are talking about physical maturity and that he was talking about psychological, but you still said no kids can't be psychologically mature. You were wrong! They can be! You should have agreed with him. Just accept that and move on.

 

Not in the sense that physical and psychological maturity are interdependent as Wikipedia so handily mentions. If you aren't physically mature, you can't be completely psychologically mature. Psychological is referring to the human mind; if the part that controls maturity isn't finsihed developing, you aren't completely mature. Quite simple, really.

Nope, the argument was about psychological maturity and how it tied into physical maturity.

 

 

 

We already covered how there is a correlation, but I also thought we covered how it doesn't make it impossible for kids to be sensible.

 

 

 

Feel free to show where I gave up an argument because I was proven wrong. It's happened before, though not on this thread, and I'm quick to admit when I'm wrong.

 

 

 

Yep and I can say the same thing. This type of talk gets us nowhere.

 

 

 

Not in the sense that physical and psychological maturity are interdependent as Wikipedia so handily mentions. If you aren't physically mature, you can't be completely psychologically mature. Psychological is referring to the human mind; if the part that controls maturity isn't finsihed developing, you aren't completely mature. Quite simple, really.

 

 

 

There are cases where adults act immature and children act mature. They do not completely depend on each other. There is only a correlation.

 

 

 

I really want to clear things up, so I ask again:

 

 

 

Can kids think carefully about something?

 

We already covered how there is a correlation, but I also thought we covered how it doesn't make it impossible for kids to be sensible.

 

 

We did, and we *thought* both agreed it was possible. I'm not sure what your position is on it, so I take it you think differently then I thought?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yep and I can say the same thing. This type of talk gets us nowhere.

 

I'm waiting. Already pointed out the spot where you gave up yours, and to my knowledge I haven't dropped an argument yet. Point it out and I'll gladly resume it, I'm positive I haven't been proven wrong on a single statement yet.

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are cases where adults act immature and children act mature. They do not completely depend on each other. There is only a correlation.

 

 

 

I really want to clear things up, so I ask again:

 

 

 

Can kids think carefully about something?

 

Of course. Can all kids always think carefully about everything? 'Cause if not, my statement's still correct.