PARIS, France (CNN) -- The Church of Scientology went on trial this week in France, accused of fraud in a case that sheds light on the group.

 

 

 

If found guilty, the church could be forced to shut down in France, though appeals could see the case continue for years.

 

 

 

"This is a process in heresy," Daniele Gounord, the spokeswoman for Scientology in France, told reporters.

 

 

 

The two plaintiffs, both women, say they were defrauded by the organization, which is classified as a sect in France.

 

 

 

Their complaints focus on the use of a device that Scientologists say measures spiritual well-being. Members use the electropsychometer, or E-Meter, to "locate areas of spiritual duress or travail so they can be addressed and handled," according to Scientology's Web site.

 

 

 

The women say that, after using the device, they were encouraged to pay for vitamins and books. They say that amounted to fraud.

 

 

 

The first plaintiff, Aude-Claire Malton, is a housekeeper at a Paris hotel who says she spent about 21,000 ($29,000) in "sauna therapy" and classes to "heal the mind," according to French media.

 

 

 

Her fellow plaintiff is Nelly Reziga, who has told French media that her boss fired her because she refused to attend classes at the Scientology church.

 

 

 

Reziga's boss, Max Barbault, was originally a defendant but has died, according to French media.

 

 

 

Six Scientology members are now on trial, along with two corporate entities -- the church and the bookshop it runs in Paris.

 

 

 

If found guilty, the Scientology members would face a maximum of 10 years in prison and fines of as much as 10 million ($13.9 million) each.

 

 

 

The church and the bookshop could be liable for as much as 5 million ($6.95 million) in fines and could be forced to shut down if found guilty.

 

 

 

The trial began Monday and is scheduled to last until June 17. The defendants are expected to appeal if found guilty.

 

 

 

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/05/26/france.scientology.court/

 

 

 

Props to France for leading the revolution in not accepting this cult! It seems Project Chanology was a hit!

What's interesting about this is that the charges aren't on anything particularly new the cult has done (like the fact that they send children to forced labour camps, have engaged in kidnapping, etc.). Spending absurd amounts of money on auditing sessions, vitamins and books is everyday business at the CoS, and it's what they have required every member to do for the past 50 years - hell, it's the only way you can progress up the ladder. It's great that they might be banned from France though, it will hurt them a lot.

 

 

 

Oh and Project Chanalogy had absolutely nothing to do with this.

I have no damn idea what Scientology is, or why they have a church for it, but the E Meter made me spit out my water.

Gratz to France indeed but the members of the *cough* church shouldn't have to pay for falling to a scam. Would you charge someone for getting mugged.

Please please please let them ban this stupid [developmentally delayed]ed peice of [cabbage] cult that only immensely stupid people are fooled into joining.

 

 

 

I will never insult France again if they do ban the cult of scientology.

France are finally good for something.

next step: the remaining religions.

next step: the remaining religions.

 

That will probably be their defense: 'religious persecution.'

next step: the remaining religions.

 

That will probably be their defense: 'religious persecution.'

 

 

 

They aren't a legally recognized religion by the government are they?

They aren't a legally recognized religion by the government are they?

 

 

 

Not the French government I don't think. In the US they probably are though.

 

 

 

next step: the remaining religions.

 

 

 

Don't lump them with the remaining religions. Not because they shouldn't be lumped with them, but because the majority of people on the earth believe in a religion and alienating the majority is not a good idea. The religions that are around now are slightly different in that they hide taking money from people in the form of donations and the like. Scientologists straight up ask for money to get higher in their religion.

next step: the remaining religions.

 

That will probably be their defense: 'religious persecution.'

 

 

 

They aren't a legally recognized religion by the government are they?

 

Not sure about in France but in the US I'm pretty sure they have tax exemption.

Not sure about in France but in the US I'm pretty sure they have tax exemption.

 

 

 

They do. The proposal to revoke the tax-exempt status of the CoS is currently 9th overall on the Change.gov Citizen's Briefing Book, meaning it makes the cut and will be/has been delivered directly into the hands of President Obama.

EDIT: dont really understand this thread properly. Is it THERE church thats being banned?

EDIT: dont really understand this thread properly. Is it THERE church thats being banned?

 

The "church" of Scientology.

EDIT: dont really understand this thread properly. Is it THERE church thats being banned?

 

 

 

Yep, it is THEIR church that is getting banned.

I don't know if they'll be that successful arguing on the grounds of fraud. According to the wiki definition, "fraud is the crime or offense of deliberately deceiving another in order to damage them usually, to obtain property or services unjustly."

 

 

 

In that case, they would have to prove that they use the E-meter to deliberately deceive people in order to damage them. According to scientologist beliefs, the E-meter is supposed to help people, so I don't know how they can prove that.

 

 

 

Nelly Reziga might have a case against her boss, though. I'd imagine (at least I hope) it's illegal to fire someone based on their refusal to attend a religious meeting.

I don't know if they'll be that successful arguing on the grounds of fraud. According to the wiki definition, "fraud is the crime or offense of deliberately deceiving another in order to damage them usually, to obtain property or services unjustly."

 

 

 

In that case, they would have to prove that they use the E-meter to deliberately deceive people in order to damage them. According to scientologist beliefs, the E-meter is supposed to help people, so I don't know how they can prove that.

 

 

 

Nelly Reziga might have a case against her boss, though. I'd imagine (at least I hope) it's illegal to fire someone based on their refusal to attend a religious meeting.

 

 

 

The damage is taking their money

I don't know if they'll be that successful arguing on the grounds of fraud. According to the wiki definition, "fraud is the crime or offense of deliberately deceiving another in order to damage them usually, to obtain property or services unjustly."

 

 

 

In that case, they would have to prove that they use the E-meter to deliberately deceive people in order to damage them. According to scientologist beliefs, the E-meter is supposed to help people, so I don't know how they can prove that.

 

 

 

Nelly Reziga might have a case against her boss, though. I'd imagine (at least I hope) it's illegal to fire someone based on their refusal to attend a religious meeting.

 

 

 

Unless we've got a learned student of French domestic law somewhere on Tip.it, I feel as though it might be worthless to discuss the exact legality of the case. In any case, wikipedia is never a viable source of information for law. My university has gone so far as to explicitly ban us from using it on our law degrees due to the lack of depth and veracity.

 

 

 

In order to accurately assess how successful the French courts will be, you'd need to know about not only the primary French Act relating to Fraud, but also any precedent set by previous simliar cases as well as the European Convention on Human Rights and any specific EU directives relating to religion and fraud.

I don't know if they'll be that successful arguing on the grounds of fraud. According to the wiki definition, "fraud is the crime or offense of deliberately deceiving another in order to damage them usually, to obtain property or services unjustly."

 

 

 

In that case, they would have to prove that they use the E-meter to deliberately deceive people in order to damage them. According to scientologist beliefs, the E-meter is supposed to help people, so I don't know how they can prove that.

 

 

 

Nelly Reziga might have a case against her boss, though. I'd imagine (at least I hope) it's illegal to fire someone based on their refusal to attend a religious meeting.

 

 

 

The damage is taking their money

 

 

 

You missed the point. If it's not deliberate deception for the purpose of damaging them it's not fraud. But in any case, I'll take um_bong's advice and take this definition with a huge grain of salt. Anyone who knows of a reliable source for French law relevant to the topic is welcome to take up where I left off.

I came here to argue that even if I disagree with it, people have a right to practice their religion. Then I read the story and did a little reading on Scientology.

 

 

 

It's not even a freaking religion, what other religion tries to sell you things?

It's not even a freaking religion, what other religion tries to sell you things?

 

Money for the collection plate, pardons from Hell (admittedly that second one was eventually stopped).

It's not even a freaking religion, what other religion tries to sell you things?

 

Money for the collection plate, pardons from Hell (admittedly that second one was eventually stopped).

 

 

 

Actually, the collection bin goes to charities. Well, the actual bills go to charities and church funds, coins are usually put in an area in the front for the homeless.

 

 

 

...pardons from hell? I've been going to church for 11 years and I've never heard of that. Going to look it up, sounds hilarious :lol:

It's not even a freaking religion, what other religion tries to sell you things?

 

Money for the collection plate, pardons from Hell (admittedly that second one was eventually stopped).

 

 

 

Actually, the collection bin goes to charities. Well, the actual bills go to charities and church funds, coins are usually put in an area in the front for the homeless.

 

 

 

...pardons from hell? I've been going to church for 11 years and I've never heard of that. Going to look it up, sounds hilarious :lol:

 

It was an older thing. As for money given to charity, well the church gets no government support (well they're not supposed to), they have to make money somehow. God won't get you through life but money will.

I came here to argue that even if I disagree with it, people have a right to practice their religion. Then I read the story and did a little reading on Scientology.

 

 

 

It's not even a freaking religion, what other religion tries to sell you things?

 

Forget the selling part, read up on how they silence critics.

I came here to argue that even if I disagree with it, people have a right to practice their religion. Then I read the story and did a little reading on Scientology.

 

 

 

It's not even a freaking religion, what other religion tries to sell you things?

 

Forget the selling part, read up on how they silence critics.

 

Tell them Xenu will kill them? Seems like what most "religions" do. (the fear factor, not say Xenu will kill them.)