15th July 2009 - PvP Changes

[Michaael]

If I were one heck of a PKer, sure! Why not? If I can get an edge on my opponent and 2 hit KO them for added risk and know that my trusty phoenix necklace would protect me, why not?

 

 

 

If a phoenix necklace works, why not use it?

 

 

 

Because, there is always that slight chance that you will die, weather it be from lag, or some epic combo with dark bow or ags.

 

 

 

And yes, complaining does get you somewhere, complaining could make jagex give us protect item back, theres always that slight chance (however rare from a company like jagex) that they will listen to there customers.

 

 

 

Who cares if they can use the prayer to have no risk, they earned the 60 mill for the AGS, they should be able to use it in PVP with protect item.

 

 

 

Well, you take that slight chance that you might die as soon as you log into a PvP world. The driving factor for PvP worlds has been "danger of losing minimal items if you use your prayers", now it's full out "bring what you will die with".

 

 

 

Risk = Rewards, I would think this update made any REAL PKer happy. And let's be honest, clicking the spec bar twice takes no skill, that's not real PKing.

 

 

 

As for the complaining, it's annoying, and the reason I hate the RSOF. Jagex doesn't make a big habit out of caring for their customers.

[wioneo]

I think the update fails.

 

 

 

It doesn't only stop one itemers, it stops anyone whos not incredibly rich from being able to pk with good items.

 

 

 

If they're incredibly rich, then they can afford to replace their lost items. Furthermore, that should rarely happen seeing as their advantage over normal players just increased by having the common player use welfare gear.

 

 

 

I don't see how you're not completely agreeing with the person that you quoted...

 

 

 

In all honesy I'm surprised at how much I dislike this updae considering that it has next to no effect on me whatsoever...except that I'll make sure to not use the agility brawlers that I was never going to use.

[wioneo]

 

Risk = Rewards, I would think this update made any REAL PKer happy. And let's be honest, clicking the spec bar twice takes no skill, that's not real PKing.

 

 

 

Except any risk which is greater than 75k does not significantly increase your reward. Last I cared to check d scims were 100kish and whips were 1.4mish, right? I seriously doubt that using a whip will get you 14 times as many kills as you would get while using a scimitar, so the risk does not scale in a linear fashion with the reward...Risk >= Reward would be a bit more accurate, I believe.

[DarkDude]

If I were one heck of a PKer, sure! Why not? If I can get an edge on my opponent and 2 hit KO them for added risk and know that my trusty phoenix necklace would protect me, why not?

 

 

 

If a phoenix necklace works, why not use it?

 

 

 

Because, there is always that slight chance that you will die, weather it be from lag, or some epic combo with dark bow or ags.

 

 

 

And yes, complaining does get you somewhere, complaining could make jagex give us protect item back, theres always that slight chance (however rare from a company like jagex) that they will listen to there customers.

 

 

 

Who cares if they can use the prayer to have no risk, they earned the 60 mill for the AGS, they should be able to use it in PVP with protect item.

 

 

 

Well, you take that slight chance that you might die as soon as you log into a PvP world. The driving factor for PvP worlds has been "danger of losing minimal items if you use your prayers", now it's full out "bring what you will die with".

 

 

 

Risk = Rewards, I would think this update made any REAL PKer happy. And let's be honest, clicking the spec bar twice takes no skill, that's not real PKing.

 

 

 

As for the complaining, it's annoying, and the reason I hate the RSOF. Jagex doesn't make a big habit out of caring for their customers.

 

 

 

But there's no point in risking the extra, there's no benefit from killing someone and them losing their whip you'd still get the same loot regardless. PKing has always been about risking most of your items but being able to protect one, for over 7 years it has been that way, why does it have to change now when there's never been a problem with it before? With protect item on people can still risk more if they want to, there's nothing stopping them from doing so. Everyone is acting like NO ONE risked anything prior to this update which is not true at all.

[Michaael]

 

Risk = Rewards, I would think this update made any REAL PKer happy. And let's be honest, clicking the spec bar twice takes no skill, that's not real PKing.

 

 

 

Except any risk which is greater than 75k does not significantly increase your reward. Last I cared to check d scims were 100kish and whips were 1.4mish, right? I seriously doubt that using a whip will get you 14 times as many kills as you would get while using a scimitar, so the risk does not scale in a linear fashion with the reward...Risk >= Reward would be a bit more accurate, I believe.

 

 

 

You have a very good point. But wouldn't you agree that a person using an AGS would have a better KO potential than somebody using a whip?

 

 

 

Everyone is acting like NO ONE risked anything prior to this update which is not true at all.

 

 

 

Claws and the AGS are some of the most powerful items the game has seen yet. People would wear maybe 200k or so, and then have a 30/80M weapon that they protected. These items can KO in 2 specs, that kind of power should come at a high, high price. It shouldn't be something to walk around with and KO anyone at no cost or risk.

[Bloodstain]

 

Risk = Rewards, I would think this update made any REAL PKer happy. And let's be honest, clicking the spec bar twice takes no skill, that's not real PKing.

 

 

 

Except any risk which is greater than 75k does not significantly increase your reward. Last I cared to check d scims were 100kish and whips were 1.4mish, right? I seriously doubt that using a whip will get you 14 times as many kills as you would get while using a scimitar, so the risk does not scale in a linear fashion with the reward...Risk >= Reward would be a bit more accurate, I believe.

 

 

 

Dscim is infinitely better than whip in PVP. When I have to fight someone who is 90 strength and has a dscim I just laugh to myself and enjoy the usually easy fight. When they have a whip I know I need a miracle to win

[DarkDude]

 

Risk = Rewards, I would think this update made any REAL PKer happy. And let's be honest, clicking the spec bar twice takes no skill, that's not real PKing.

 

 

 

Except any risk which is greater than 75k does not significantly increase your reward. Last I cared to check d scims were 100kish and whips were 1.4mish, right? I seriously doubt that using a whip will get you 14 times as many kills as you would get while using a scimitar, so the risk does not scale in a linear fashion with the reward...Risk >= Reward would be a bit more accurate, I believe.

 

 

 

You have a very good point. But wouldn't you agree that a person using an AGS would have a better KO potential than somebody using a whip?

 

 

 

Perhaps slightly - however with Smite you could get rid of protect prayer anyway, thus they are risking more. On top of that the whip is a lot quicker too which sort of balances the weapons out.

[wioneo]

 

You have a very good point. But wouldn't you agree that a person using an AGS would have a better KO potential than somebody using a whip?

 

 

 

 

This is true, and maybe I'm less cocky than the average pker, but it seems a bit pretentious to assume that you will NEVER die, and risking 60m or whatever they are worth now just does not seem like a good idea when the best drop that you could hope to receieve would be worth 5m or so.

 

 

 

This is the first update that seemed to lack a decent logical foundation in my eyes...other than bouncing cabbages, that is.

 

 

 

EDIT: about smite, that honestly has little to no effect on anyone with some sense. For example, if I was fully smited to death, I would only lose 20 or so prayer points, that leaves me with 50 points for piety, or eagle eye/whatever. Unless I for some reason decided to take enough damage to require 10 or so sharks without a single pray pot sip, no harm would be done. And with brews the threat is irrelevant.

[Michaael]

 

You have a very good point. But wouldn't you agree that a person using an AGS would have a better KO potential than somebody using a whip?

 

 

 

 

This is true, and maybe I'm less cocky than the average pker, but it seems a bit pretentious to assume that you will NEVER die, and risking 60m or whatever they are worth now just does not seem like a good idea when the best drop that you could hope to receieve would be worth 5m or so.

 

 

 

This is the first update that seemed to lack a decent logical foundation in my eyes...other than bouncing cabbages, that is.

 

 

 

There's always the unknown and the risk, it's what you agree to when you log into a PvP world.

 

 

 

I honestly believe the reasoning behind this update is that weaponry has become too powerful for the moment and they needed to counteract it.

 

 

 

Weapons that can KO in 2 clicks of the special bar is insane. Now we have a lot of talk of "time to break out the d scim", this is bringing PvP somewhat back to where it was before godswords.

 

 

 

When I said "risk = reward" I didn't mean a linear line, I meant that if you risk the big weapons against people with the smaller weapons, you'll most likely win. I won't go into hypotheticals because every fight is different, but the whip is 1.5m and the ags is 80m for a reason.

[brunokiller]

Disabling overhead prayer would fix the pjer problem tbh.

[konkar]

Happy face. :)

[Emmentail]

Disabling overhead prayer would fix the pjer problem tbh.

 

 

 

Then people would complain about now knowing if they were fighting a "prayer noob" or not..

[Nukearcher]

one of the best updates this year

[walka92]

one of the best updates this year

 

try saying that once you lose an ags or an arcane spirt shield

[Sir_Kurity]

Well, you take that slight chance that you might die as soon as you log into a PvP world. The driving factor for PvP worlds has been "danger of losing minimal items if you use your prayers", now it's full out "bring what you will die with".

 

 

 

Risk = Rewards, I would think this update made any REAL PKer happy. And let's be honest, clicking the spec bar twice takes no skill, that's not real PKing.

 

 

 

So... All real pkers want to get the same drops, while at the same time not being able to use there cool items? Its not as if making that person lose there AGS is going to give you better drops.

[Michaael]

Well, you take that slight chance that you might die as soon as you log into a PvP world. The driving factor for PvP worlds has been "danger of losing minimal items if you use your prayers", now it's full out "bring what you will die with".

 

 

 

Risk = Rewards, I would think this update made any REAL PKer happy. And let's be honest, clicking the spec bar twice takes no skill, that's not real PKing.

 

 

 

So... All real pkers want to get the same drops, while at the same time not being able to use there cool items? Its not as if making that person lose there AGS is going to give you better drops.

 

 

 

If you had read a few posts above I said

 

 

 

When I said "risk = reward" I didn't mean a linear line, I meant that if you risk the big weapons against people with the smaller weapons, you'll most likely win (thus getting possibly more rewards than if you had PKed with a whip instead of AGS). I won't go into hypotheticals because every fight is different, but the whip is 1.5m and the ags is 80m for a reason.

 

 

 

And for the line you quoted, I really don't see anything new there. Please don't twist my words for the sake of posting a reply...

[depresins]

I smiled and prepared for the lulz that is people complaining.

 

..

 

Then I realised I bought 30k raw sharks 2 days ago, and I have over 900 snaps banked. Neither has sold at minimum over the whole day. Oh, and snap seeds are being merched sooooo I can't even buy more to get a bit more dosh :thumbup:

 

 

 

Still worth it to see everybody whinge though :D

[Sir_Kurity]

 

If you had read a few posts above I said

 

 

 

When I said "risk = reward" I didn't mean a linear line, I meant that if you risk the big weapons against people with the smaller weapons, you'll most likely win (thus getting possibly more rewards than if you had PKed with a whip instead of AGS). I won't go into hypotheticals because every fight is different, but the whip is 1.5m and the ags is 80m for a reason.

 

 

And for the line you quoted, I really don't see anything new there. Please don't twist my words for the sake of posting a reply...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thing in bold, i don't understand.

 

 

 

Anyway, yes, risk sort of equals reward, but even with protect item you are RISKING, people can smite, etc, and more importantly, they earned the money, they deserve the advantage.

 

 

 

Oh and, the AGS wont be 80 mill for long.

 

 

 

Edit (moar edits): DDS can ko in 2 hits as well.

[Michaael]

 

Thing in bold, i don't understand.

 

 

 

Anyway, yes, risk sort of equals reward, but even with protect item you are RISKING, people can smite, etc, and more importantly, they earned the money, they deserve the advantage.

 

 

 

Oh and, the AGS wont be 80 mill for long.

 

 

 

The thing in bold was a statement to your completely irrelevant post:

 

[hide=]So... All real pkers want to get the same drops, while at the same time not being able to use there cool items? Its not as if making that person lose there AGS is going to give you better drops.[/hide]

 

I had basically responded to that and more in the above posts, and I felt (and still feel) like you just want to twist words and argue.

 

 

 

Anyway, risk DOES equal reward (in the fashion I have posted twice in the above posts), not sort of. I garuntee anybody with the balls to go out in Bandos/claws and claw up the dhide/dscim PKers for a few hours will absolutely reap the rewards.

 

 

 

The problem with protect is that they don't risk enough to cover how much power they have equipped. Weapons that KO in two clicks of the spec bar is INSANE! Power like that should (and now does) come with a price.

 

 

 

DDS is on a different level. It's a low cost weapon and has been around forever. The likelihood of KOing in 2 hits using a DDS as compared to claws or AGS is enormous, don't go there.

 

 

 

And one thing I can agree with you on: AGS is going to drop big time

[Sir_Kurity]

 

I had basically responded to that and more in the above posts, and I felt (and still feel) like you just want to twist words and argue.

 

 

 

 

Anyway, risk DOES equal reward (in the fashion I have posted twice in the above posts), not sort of. I garuntee anybody with the balls to go out in Bandos/claws and claw up the dhide/dscim PKers for a few hours will absolutely reap the rewards.

 

 

 

Risk so does not equal reward in this pvp system.

 

 

 

Risk 80 mill, get the same drops as everyone else with a easier (but hardly 80 million dollar) chance of getting a kill than if someone pks with just a dds.

 

 

 

How am i twisting your words, I'm merely highlight what you say, and respond to it.

 

 

 

Also, why pk with claws when you can pay a friend 75k? Hell no am i going to risk 20 million without protect item.

[Michaael]

 

I had basically responded to that and more in the above posts, and I felt (and still feel) like you just want to twist words and argue.

 

 

 

 

Anyway, risk DOES equal reward (in the fashion I have posted twice in the above posts), not sort of. I garuntee anybody with the balls to go out in Bandos/claws and claw up the dhide/dscim PKers for a few hours will absolutely reap the rewards.

 

 

 

Risk so does not equal reward in this pvp system.

 

 

 

Risk 80 mill, get the same drops as everyone else with a easier (but hardly 80 million dollar) chance of getting a kill than if someone pks with just a dds.

 

 

 

How am i twisting your words, I'm merely highlight what you say, and respond to it.

 

 

 

Also, why pk with claws when you can pay a friend 75k? Hell no am i going to risk 20 million without protect item.

 

 

 

So for try number three, I will try to explain this as simply as I can for your angry mind.

 

 

 

Player A risks 3m total. He PKs with a whip.

 

Player B risks 80M. He PKs with an AGS. (Who is risking more in this situation?)

 

[hide=Answer]Player B, good job! Stay with me now :[/hide]

 

 

 

Player B KO's player A because of his superior weaponry, by risking his AGS, he was rewarded with superior weaponry and ability to KO.

 

 

 

Still with me? Lord I hope so...

 

 

 

Player B goes out and KO's many other welfare PKers with his AGS because his risk is paying off and he is getting rewarded well by the drops he recieves.

 

 

 

 

 

Edit: So what did we learn? Risk does not equal reward in terms of the PKing system. It equals reward in ability to KO and a supreme edge over your opponents, a direct factor in the loot you receive.

[muggiwhplar]

 

I had basically responded to that and more in the above posts, and I felt (and still feel) like you just want to twist words and argue.

 

 

 

 

Anyway, risk DOES equal reward (in the fashion I have posted twice in the above posts), not sort of. I garuntee anybody with the balls to go out in Bandos/claws and claw up the dhide/dscim PKers for a few hours will absolutely reap the rewards.

 

 

 

Risk so does not equal reward in this pvp system.

 

 

 

Risk 80 mill, get the same drops as everyone else with a easier (but hardly 80 million dollar) chance of getting a kill than if someone pks with just a dds.

 

 

 

How am i twisting your words, I'm merely highlight what you say, and respond to it.

 

 

 

Also, why pk with claws when you can pay a friend 75k? Hell no am i going to risk 20 million without protect item.

 

 

 

So for try number three, I will try to explain this as simply as I can for your angry mind.

 

 

 

Player A risks 3m total. He PKs with a whip.

 

Player B risks 80M. He PKs with an AGS. (Who is risking more in this situation?)

 

[hide=Answer]Player B, good job! Stay with me now :[/hide]

 

 

 

Player B KO's player A because of his superior weaponry, by risking his AGS, he was rewarded with superior weaponry and ability to KO.

 

 

 

Still with me? Lord I hope so...

 

 

 

Player B goes out and KO's many other welfare PKers with his AGS because his risk is paying off and he is getting rewarded well by the drops he recieves.

 

 

 

In a nutshell, the better gear you risk, the quality of your drops remains the same while the quantity goes up :P

[Sir_Kurity]

Or.

 

 

 

Player A, whip + dds.

 

 

 

Player B, whip + ags.

 

 

 

Player A, goes and pks a bit, dies a bit, uses his EP, gets some good drops.

 

 

 

Player B, goes and pks, gets unlucky from an ags spec or some other thing, loses 80 mill /wrist and quit.

 

 

 

Its not a big enough advantage to risk an AGS on, with the exception of prehaps just pjing, unless there is a severe drop in prices, its just not worth it, you don't get better drops from risking more, you may get more drops, but you will end up having to get EP back after a while anyway.

 

 

 

Its not worth the risk, and in my opinion may never be worth the risk, when before it was.

[Michaael]

[hide=]Player A, whip + dds.

 

 

 

Player B, whip + ags.

 

 

 

Player A, goes and pks a bit, dies a bit, uses his EP, gets some good drops.

 

 

 

Player B, goes and pks, gets unlucky from an ags spec or some other thing, loses 80 mill /wrist and quit.

 

 

 

Its not a big enough advantage to risk an AGS on, with the exception of prehaps just pjing, unless there is a severe drop in prices, its just not worth it, you don't get better drops from risking more, you may get more drops, but you will end up having to get EP back after a while anyway.[/hide]

 

 

 

Too bad for player B. That's how the game goes, boo hoo. What I don't understand is how you can find a point to argue about through that. So you die in PvP? That's expected, he knew the risk, maybe he shouldn't have sucked at PKing.

 

 

 

you don't get better drops from risking more, you may get more drops, but you will end up having to get EP back after a while anyway

 

 

 

We've gone through this, and you basically agreed with me (imagine that). We're aware that your drops stay the same, but you will get more kills if you risk more and use better weapons. Everyone has to get EP eventually.

 

 

 

You don't have a leg to stand on

[Sir_Kurity]

 

We've gone through this, and you basically agreed with me (imagine that). We're aware that your drops stay the same, but you will get more kills if you risk more and use better weapons. Everyone has to get EP eventually.

 

 

 

You don't have a leg to stand on

 

 

 

Everyone has to get EP eventually, so therefore the AGSer has a limited advantage over the whip, as though he gets kills faster, he will still, (like the whipper) end up having to get EP.

 

 

 

The point im trying to make is most any expensive item is just not worth using in PVP anymore, and thats because of the protect item update.

 

 

 

That's expected, he knew the risk, maybe he shouldn't have sucked at PKing.

 

 

 

Sometimes its just luck...