15th July 2009 - PvP Changes

[Ravenkana]

I think it was to piss off people who abused the system. The effect on real pkers was just an unwanted byproduct.

I don't get it, I thought pkers were all about risking items to kill their opponents. I thought that they would love this update :?

Erm, than explain why dangerous clan wars never caught on?

[Zygimantas]

I really can't wait to get pking now, maybe i'll get my str up and buy some d claws. The thing is I never used protect item before anyway, I would always forget :P

 

If your useing a very powerful weapon, that gives a big advantage then you should be risking it. Only makes sense.

[SirTommy2005]

Jagex's secret goal was to crash items and still not gain the wrath of 26kers, so they pissed off the minority real pkers.

 

Mission accomplished

[Zygimantas]

I think it was to piss off people who abused the system. The effect on real pkers was just an unwanted byproduct.

I don't get it, I thought pkers were all about risking items to kill their opponents. I thought that they would love this update :?

Erm, than explain why dangerous clan wars never caught on?

I thought that they would rather risk more when pking for themselves then for fighting with their clan. Thats how I feel, i'm not going to risk too much just for a clan fight, can't always trust your clan members to do well.

[n64jive]

Jagex is seriously going the other way with all the updates. All this controversy on the forums about how the 26k needs to be nerfed, and they agree they are going to fix it. We posted arguments that upping the value wouldn't fix [cabbage], as all it would do is cut into things a little bit.

 

 

 

Instead, they completely forget about nerfing the 26k trick, and decide rather to just nerf pvp. One of the best things about p2p pvp is that it's exciting. Weapons have the ability to do monstrous damage and get KO's. Grant it there is still KO potential, it's no where near as exciting as it used to be. It's just going to cause massive food usage. Thats why f2p pking sucks so much...kills are rare, and food use is massive.

 

 

 

That is just one of many points why this is going to completely screw over the game. Even if you don't pvp, you are going to suffer backlash from this. I could almost guarantee it.

 

 

 

You can be a Jagex fanboy all you want and try to justify it, but in reality, this update sucks. Removing protect item from the wild is like removing the battle rifle from halo 3.

 

 

 

Once again, Jagex shoots themselves in the foot.

 

 

 

Off Topic: By the way, post count doesn't earn you respect on this forum. Respect is earned by different people for different reasons. I used to spend a lot of time on my post back when I was an avid scaper. I feel that at the time, the TIF community had a lot of respect from me. I leave for 2 years, come back, and start posting my controversial views. I havn't received much respect from TIF since, and I really don't care. Internet Respect is worth it's weight in Internet Dollars. You really gain nothing from it. However, I still think it's important to post meaningful post, as doing otherwise totally nullifies the point of being on this forum.

 

 

 

/rant

[Death123141]

Jagex's secret goal was to crash items and still not gain the wrath of 26kers, so they pissed off the minority real pkers.

 

Mission accomplished

 

Yes

 

[hide=][/hide]

[Miskatake]

Why does Jagex have the habit of changing everything which is in a fine state already. I'm not only talking about this update, but in general.

 

 

 

Now, about this update..

 

 

 

Positive effects:

 

 

 

A) 1-iteming will be reduced a lot, but not completely. 4-iteming will die, as you have auto-skull and no item prot..

 

 

 

B) Pjing will be reduced.

 

 

 

C) Old time PKers enjoy this, you can have honour fights now. No sign of safety, only risk.

 

 

 

D) 26king..well, you lose everything now, but in F2P..it's still the same, but in members, it's 76king. The same thing, but you lose everything when you die. The auto-skull doesn't really have an effect on this..

 

 

 

Neutral effects:

 

 

 

A) Price drops. Godswords, D-claws..you name it. Some will be used in Clan Wars, bosses..and minigames, but prices will drop for the popular PVP weapons. Some like this, some do not.

 

 

 

 

 

Negative effects:

 

 

 

A) Fun fights get complicated, no protect items, auto skull..and you can't give the stuff back to your friend, as the damn trade limit blocks you from doing that. No DH fights..whip fights..oh well, I guess people start playing Clan Wars 1v1 and Duel Arena more..that's positive I think?

 

 

 

B) 26king (F2P) & 76king (P2P)..honestly I don't care about this one, the only difference is you lose your stuff, no effect on 76king..please, we need to get rid of this 26king/76king thing.

 

 

 

C) No protect item, it has always been around, in the old days too. Gets rid of 1-iteming and 4-iteming, but..still..Jagex has to come up with a better idea.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm starting to hate this game even more, but I have stopped playing ages ago. Just visited to see how the riots were, and tested PvP again.

 

 

 

I blame:

 

 

 

Jagex for their [cabbage]ty solutions.

 

 

 

26kers (76kers now) for causing these updates. :x

 

 

 

Merch clans for raising prices and lowering prices, it's like a freaking wave now, up & down, up & down..the economy was more stable back in the old days..

 

 

 

The [bleep]ing RWTers for screwing up the trade, Wilderness and Duel Arena.

 

 

 

1-itemers, 4-itemers, PJers & hit 'n runners for being a part of this update. You must be damn proud of yourself now. I know they're tactics to PK, but they're stupid. Hit 'n runners especially, you just made the prices of D claws go down.

[squig]

Real pking gets destroyed and 26king just turns into 76king. Nice Jagex.

[Michaael]

[hide=]

Jagex is seriously going the other way with all the updates. All this controversy on the forums about how the 26k needs to be nerfed, and they agree they are going to fix it. We posted arguments that upping the value wouldn't fix [cabbage], as all it would do is cut into things a little bit.

 

 

 

Instead, they completely forget about nerfing the 26k trick, and decide rather to just nerf pvp. One of the best things about p2p pvp is that it's exciting. Weapons have the ability to do monstrous damage and get KO's. Grant it there is still KO potential, it's no where near as exciting as it used to be. It's just going to cause massive food usage. Thats why f2p pking sucks so much...kills are rare, and food use is massive.

 

 

 

That is just one of many points why this is going to completely screw over the game. Even if you don't pvp, you are going to suffer backlash from this. I could almost guarantee it.

 

 

 

You can be a Jagex fanboy all you want and try to justify it, but in reality, this update sucks. Removing protect item from the wild is like removing the battle rifle from halo 3.

 

 

 

Once again, Jagex shoots themselves in the foot.

 

 

 

Off Topic: By the way, post count doesn't earn you respect on this forum. Respect is earned by different people for different reasons. I used to spend a lot of time on my post back when I was an avid scaper. I feel that at the time, the TIF community had a lot of respect from me. I leave for 2 years, come back, and start posting my controversial views. I havn't received much respect from TIF since, and I really don't care. Internet Respect is worth it's weight in Internet Dollars. You really gain nothing from it. However, I still think it's important to post meaningful post, as doing otherwise totally nullifies the point of being on this forum.

 

 

 

/rant

[/hide]

 

 

 

I feel like you were half wrong, and half right in your post.

 

 

 

The only reason we see the AGS and claws crashing today is because today Jagex made PvP worlds entirely what they intended: risk; and people can't deal with risking their weapons and armor.

 

 

 

When we log into PvP worlds there's a message that says (generally speaking): Warning, this is a dangerous world, be prepared to die and lose your items.

 

 

 

I think the problem we're facing today is that we have built standards of a "good" PvP system by reading that warning in this way: Warning, PvP is generally dangerous if you don't activate your "protect item" prayer when you go into combat, and you need to protect melee when you teleport into a hotzone, but otherwise, you might lose some minor things. Watch out for the claws mainly.

 

 

 

Now that you have to risk items when PKing (and god forbid you don't have a safety net and only risk some items to reap your rewards), people are upset and selling their weapons.

 

 

 

The playing field is level, everyone is risking everything, and I LOVE that.

 

 

 

I think Jagex hit this spot on, PvP worlds are meant to be dangerous places, and now they are.

[Bauke]

Real pking gets destroyed and 26king just turns into 76king. Nice Jagex.

 

Lol, yeah, sure. All those one itemers are real pk'ers. Pk'ing was ment to be risky. People can't use their d claws / ags without risk anymore, and that's a good thing.

 

 

 

Pk'ing takes real skill now.

[Rahila]

I finally catch on to pking and really have been enjoying it in the past few months, and this happens...

 

GO [bleep] YOURSELF JAGEX

 

 

 

PVP worlds are just going to turn into food dumps and 76king worlds...I can't really see my membership in this game lasting much longer.

[Danqazmlp]

People seem to be forgettign that Pking needs to be profitable. You can argue all you like that it doesen't need to be anything, but when it comes down to the stop, on rs, you need to make something back for your risk.

 

 

 

Now when you would pk before today, you would generally have one expensive item, and be risking a few hundred k of items if you died, this was fine becasue you would generally profit even if you died once or twice, as will always happen with pvp, no matter how good you are. However, now, nobody will want to risk anything over a few hundred k, which is why all the high end items are crashing hard. Why risk 34m, if it is going to take 50 kills to make back your money if you die once?

 

 

 

Jagex have turned PVP into a massive money sink, not a gain.

[Zygimantas]

I finally catch on to pking and really have been enjoying it in the past few months, and this happens...

 

GO [bleep] YOURSELF JAGEX

 

 

 

PVP worlds are just going to turn into food dumps and 76king worlds...I can't really see my membership in this game lasting much longer.

Then take out your Ags and D claws and own those noobs. They won't expect it :

[n64jive]

[hide=]

Why does Jagex have the habit of changing everything which is in a fine state already. I'm not only talking about this update, but in general.

 

 

 

Now, about this update..

 

 

 

Positive effects:

 

 

 

A) 1-iteming will be reduced a lot, but not completely. 4-iteming will die, as you have auto-skull and no item prot..

 

 

 

B) Pjing will be reduced.

 

 

 

C) Old time PKers enjoy this, you can have honour fights now. No sign of safety, only risk.

 

 

 

D) 26king..well, you lose everything now, but in F2P..it's still the same, but in members, it's 76king. The same thing, but you lose everything when you die. The auto-skull doesn't really have an effect on this..

 

 

 

Neutral effects:

 

 

 

A) Price drops. Godswords, D-claws..you name it. Some will be used in Clan Wars, bosses..and minigames, but prices will drop for the popular PVP weapons. Some like this, some do not.

 

 

 

 

 

Negative effects:

 

 

 

A) Fun fights get complicated, no protect items, auto skull..and you can't give the stuff back to your friend, as the damn trade limit blocks you from doing that. No DH fights..whip fights..oh well, I guess people start playing Clan Wars 1v1 and Duel Arena more..that's positive I think?

 

 

 

B) 26king (F2P) & 76king (P2P)..honestly I don't care about this one, the only difference is you lose your stuff, no effect on 76king..please, we need to get rid of this 26king/76king thing.

 

 

 

C) No protect item, it has always been around, in the old days too. Gets rid of 1-iteming and 4-iteming, but..still..Jagex has to come up with a better idea.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm starting to hate this game even more, but I have stopped playing ages ago. Just visited to see how the riots were, and tested PvP again.

 

 

 

I blame:

 

 

 

Jagex for their [cabbage] solutions.

 

 

 

26kers (76kers now) for causing these updates. :x

 

 

 

Merch clans for raising prices and lowering prices, it's like a freaking wave now, up & down, up & down..the economy was more stable back in the old days..

 

 

 

The [bleep] RWTers for screwing up the trade, Wilderness and Duel Arena.

 

 

 

1-itemers, 4-itemers, PJers & hit 'n runners for being a part of this update. You must be damn proud of yourself now. I know they're tactics to PK, but they're stupid. Hit 'n runners especially, you just made the prices of D claws go down.

[/hide]

 

 

 

It's funny, because I feel the same way about your post. First, I like you're analysis, pro's and cons..very nice post, but I feel the things you have as pro's and the things you have as con's don't hold as much water as they should, or they are in the wrong place.

 

 

 

I'd say price drops is more of a Con as well. Even if it makes them more affordable, the rate they are going to crash is going to cause many to lose multi-millions without no controll. At least 26king inflation allowed you to preserve your cash by buying into goods.

 

 

 

 

 

Pro's: A is good

 

B.Pjing really isn't reduced. Before the update, most pjers were in very good gear as it increased their chance of koing, and once the specs were used, they were gone(and they had protect item on the whole time)...they can still do this..really hasn't changed.

 

C.I risked about 1m in gear without my whip, I think that's enough for single pvp melee. I would lose to people who had rune gloves and strength amulets all the time. So even if you risk the 30m for claws or the 80m for AGS, the advantage you gain doesn't seem to be that significant compared to the risk.

 

D. Hardly a pro, as it's been pointed out that it really doesn't solve the problem.

 

 

 

I blame solely Jagex for this. They needed to make a fix. Once again they're fix is even more part of the problem. I also blame the whiners. I said before that whining about inflation would only cause the update to be rushed, and it would likely ruin an even bigger aspect of the game...and look what happened.

 

 

 

But all in all, I agree with you're overall view, this update blows!

 

 

 

Edit: and I can still alch or w/e in level 1 wild. I just have to wear gear and pay better attention. So no, didn't change that(which I think is good, but that's just opinion)

[Silver_Corner]

As was stated a few posts above..

 

Ignoring the whole 26/76k issue.

 

 

 

Melee has a distinctive advantage in PvP worlds in the fact that the primary cost of their equipment (The weapon) could be saved upon death. In NO other combat class does this occur.

 

 

 

Ranger Dies? You lose most of your equipment in bolts which you can't protect.

 

Mager Dies? You lose most of your equipment in runes which you can't protect.

 

Meleer dies? You lose very little in armor and protect your expensive weapon.

 

 

 

Now everyone loses everything equally. I fail to see what people's problem is over the whole issue of risking items.

 

 

 

Now Meleers have to use cheaper (less powerful) weapons which brings the combat triangle back into balance on PvP/BH worlds.

 

 

 

So explain to me why its an issue you can't protect item's now?

[muggiwhplar]

Kinda funny how none of this would've happened if they never implemented the trade limits.

 

 

 

Damn those RWT'ers lol

[muggiwhplar]

As was stated a few posts above..

 

Ignoring the whole 26/76k issue.

 

 

 

Melee has a distinctive advantage in PvP worlds in the fact that the primary cost of their equipment (The weapon) could be saved upon death. In NO other combat class does this occur.

 

 

 

Ranger Dies? You lose most of your equipment in bolts which you can't protect.

 

Mager Dies? You lose most of your equipment in runes which you can't protect.

 

Meleer dies? You lose very little in armor and protect your expensive weapon.

 

 

 

Now everyone loses everything equally. I fail to see what people's problem is over the whole issue of risking items.

 

 

 

Now Meleers have to use cheaper (less powerful) weapons which brings the combat triangle back into balance on PvP/BH worlds.

 

 

 

So explain to me why its an issue you can't protect item's now?

 

 

 

Because now I can't ambush my opponents and kill them in two hits without risking my items! (sarcasm)

[Michaael]

I think that now, more than ever you should be rewarded with how much you risk.

 

 

 

But like I've said, claws and AGS are some of the most powerful weapons in PvP, they can kill people with two clicks of the special attack bar. If you want to use that kind of sheer power, you need to risk it.

 

 

 

Now would be a very good time for them to implement a system that rewards how much you are risking to what you get in a kill.

[muggiwhplar]

I think that now, more than ever you should be rewarded with how much you risk.

 

 

 

But like I've said, claws and AGS are some of the most powerful weapons in PvP, they can kill people with two clicks of the special attack bar. If you want to use that kind of sheer power, you need to risk it.

 

 

 

Now would be a very good time for them to implement a system that rewards how much you are risking to what you get in a kill.

 

 

 

That would just make people more likely to rush/PJ

 

 

 

Or, even worse, just kill their friends with 2147M in their bag

 

 

 

They ought to determine drops based off of how much you're risking and how much your opponent's risking... like, you'll only get a good drop if both you and your opponent are wearing 50M in gear. But if you're the only one risking 50M, or vice versa, your loot won't be very valuable.

 

 

 

Edit: that wouldn't work either lol

[Michaael]

I think that now, more than ever you should be rewarded with how much you risk.

 

 

 

But like I've said, claws and AGS are some of the most powerful weapons in PvP, they can kill people with two clicks of the special attack bar. If you want to use that kind of sheer power, you need to risk it.

 

 

 

Now would be a very good time for them to implement a system that rewards how much you are risking to what you get in a kill.

 

 

 

That would just make people more likely to rush/PJ

 

 

 

Or, even worse, just kill their friends with 2147M in their bag

 

 

 

That's true. I think this is the biggest step in the right direction that they've taken with PvP. A level playing field is epic win :

[NJE03]

Kinda funny how none of this would've happened if they never implemented the trade limits.

 

 

 

Damn those RWT'ers lol

Very true... no pvp update will ever compare to the way pvp used to be.

[chonchoso]

ok correct me if i m wrong.

 

this is the way i see it:

 

in p2p worlds:75k risk

 

in f2p worlds 25k risk(as always)

 

 

 

arent the rewards the same in f2p as in p2p??

 

people just need to go and play in free worlds and problem fix, well fix... we are the same as before...

 

 

 

i m a human so i can be mistaken

[n64jive]

As was stated a few posts above..

 

Ignoring the whole 26/76k issue.

 

 

 

Melee has a distinctive advantage in PvP worlds in the fact that the primary cost of their equipment (The weapon) could be saved upon death. In NO other combat class does this occur.

 

 

 

Ranger Dies? You lose most of your equipment in bolts which you can't protect.

 

Mager Dies? You lose most of your equipment in runes which you can't protect.

 

Meleer dies? You lose very little in armor and protect your expensive weapon.

 

 

 

Now everyone loses everything equally. I fail to see what people's problem is over the whole issue of risking items.

 

 

 

Now Meleers have to use cheaper (less powerful) weapons which brings the combat triangle back into balance on PvP/BH worlds.

 

 

 

So explain to me why its an issue you can't protect item's now?

 

 

 

Because no p2p mage or range dared to enter the wild without a whip, and some even had ags or claws as spec weapon. Also, it was proportional. My melee gear amounted to about 1m loss (hp cape, rfd gloves, d boots, glory, rune plate + legs, neitiz helm, obby shield, dds spec weapon). Unless you include barrows armour, the value of range and mage gear being worth less totaled to it being made up by runes and bolts.

 

 

 

Now we all have to pk in wellfare gear, rending higher items useless.

 

 

 

Edit: to the above^^ the rewards arn't the same. You make more in p2p then in f2p

[Rageman192]

Does any of you have any idea will this have any effect on other expensive items than the Godswords and D Claws? I am preparing to sell my Verac's and Ahrim's and a Mage's book but I want to be ahead of a possible crash...

[Zaaps1]

As was stated a few posts above..

 

Ignoring the whole 26/76k issue.

 

 

 

Melee has a distinctive advantage in PvP worlds in the fact that the primary cost of their equipment (The weapon) could be saved upon death. In NO other combat class does this occur.

 

 

 

Ranger Dies? You lose most of your equipment in bolts which you can't protect.

 

Mager Dies? You lose most of your equipment in runes which you can't protect.

 

Meleer dies? You lose very little in armor and protect your expensive weapon.

 

 

 

Now everyone loses everything equally. I fail to see what people's problem is over the whole issue of risking items.

 

 

 

Now Meleers have to use cheaper (less powerful) weapons which brings the combat triangle back into balance on PvP/BH worlds.

 

 

 

So explain to me why its an issue you can't protect item's now?

 

 

 

Well, if you only wanna base it off max hits....melee's at a disadvantage, actually. (But of course, max hits aren't everything).

 

 

 

Ranged: Darkbow + d arrows (let's say 20) = 1.1m

 

Max hit: 96 (48x2)

 

 

 

Magic: Ancient staff + 2 different ancient spells (let's say 100 casts of each) + obby rings (let's say 100)= 500k

 

Max hit: 80? (30+30+? from obby ring)

 

 

 

Melee: It used to be AGS at 75 and d claws in the 80s, but the next best thing would be...dds... = 40k

 

Max hit: 62 (31x2)

 

 

 

That's minimalist, using only weapons and no armor. So sure melee has the best cost effectiveness, but out of the "cheap" options, it doesn't fare so well.