15th July 2009 - PvP Changes

[Racheya]

^^ That definitely makes me think they're not done with PvP yet.

 

 

 

Don't get your knickers in a twist peoples, they've not finished yet.

[3hitm4g3u]

^^ That definitely makes me think they're not done with PvP yet.

 

 

 

Don't get your knickers in a twist peoples, they've not finished yet.

 

 

 

I personally can't wait to see how Jagex makes this worse.

[wioneo]

^^ That definitely makes me think they're not done with PvP yet.

 

 

 

Don't get your knickers in a twist peoples, they've not finished yet.

 

 

 

I personally can't wait to see how Jagex makes this worse.

 

 

 

This is a classic example of knicker twisting.

[gantail]

My own epic win this morning before GE updated.

 

 

 

[hide=Win][/hide]

 

 

 

~Gantail

[General199]

I like this update. It shall eliminate any real threats in p2p multi.

[mario_sunny]

My own epic win this morning before GE updated.

 

 

 

[hide=Win][/hide]

 

 

 

~Gantail

 

 

 

Considering people are selling those for 20M in w2,

 

 

 

:shock:

[Range_This11]

Very lucky indeed.

[Michaael]

I feel sorry for the dude that bought those :

[Sir_Kurity]

Hey, they said d claws weren't going to be nerfed.

 

 

 

Well, seems they have been, not directly.

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

[hide=long quote]

Alright, after letting the flames of immaturity die down a bit, my take on this update is pretty straightforward: best update to PvP/PKing in a long while. I'll give you three reasons why.

 

 

 

1) Risk versus Reward. It's finally risky now if you want to PK in Bandos or want to use a set of Dragon Claws to quick-pwn someone. For a long, long time, n-itemers could really PK with near impunity, so long as they didn't run out of prayer and/or didn't skull. This has been a major complaint since the PK days of old, and it's one of the reasons I got out of the PK scene. It's also riskier now if you want to gain 2 or 4 times more experience - what, you thought that Brawlers were meant to be safe to use?

 

 

 

2) This one dates back to a friend of mine that PKs a lot - "There's no such thing as safing on Members, you know" With players no longer able to protect their whips, Godswords, or all other manner of weapons that hit over 33, the potential for getting KOed while loitering in the Wilderness out of the clear blue is significantly reduced. This means fairer fights - not everyone can afford claws or Godswords - and also more interesting battles.

 

 

 

3) This update has the potential to drain off some of the cash brought in by inflation, 26K or otherwise. Now that you have the chance to lose stuff, gear such as food, potions, ammunition/runes, and armor can finally normalize themselves. What I'm hoping is that with this update, players that previously exclusively PKed/26Ked for their funding will have no other alternative but to gather food for themselves, and harvest herbs once again, either at Abberants or Chaos Druids, et al.

 

 

 

I don't think that this fixed the 26K trick, but it did provide some long standing issues that needed to be resolved in PKing. Now if we can just make it so that if you teleport out, you lose all of your EP, and if we beef Mage up a bit, PKing will actually become a pleasant pastime.

[/hide]

 

 

 

1) More risk......same rewards, along with being the #1 target. Every pjer would love to kill you. You get barraged all the time.

 

And once you die, all the gain from pks is gone.

 

D scim = #1 weapon.

 

 

 

2) Pjers don't give a rat's [wagon] about Protect Item. They will still rush, and they enjoy it even more now, as one of them stated on forums.

 

The only difference is that while you use a crap weapon, they use a better one and don't care.

 

 

 

3) That's cool.

 

 

 

Just give us back the goddamn Protect Item and we'll be happy. It doesn't allow RWT, it won't steal credit cards.

 

 

 

75king will continue, bolting is there, pjing is there, but real pking took the biggest hit.

 

It's like they have dropped a nuke but completely missed it.

 

 

 

1] So what? Do you expect or anticipate an angel of safe-keeping to protect you while you carry four Statuettes out of level 47 Wilderness?

 

 

 

2] Most PJers usually prepped themselves with item protection before they jumped into the fray, especially if the item that they had was worth more than they knew they could ever make again. That's just how it was.

 

 

 

Again, leave Protect Item out of the Wilderness. The Wilderness is not meant to be safe. It's not meant to let you keep anything. If you survive, 'you're the man now, dawg'. If you die, get used to it.

[n64jive]

[hide=Jagex Clarification = Win in my book]

Hey,

 

 

 

As you are probably aware, we have recently made some rather drastic changes to what players risk on PvP Worlds. In case you are one of the people who dont know, here is what we changed:

 

On PvP Worlds, you will always be skulled and cannot use the Protect Item prayer.

 

 

 

We launched this update without much explanation as to why we were making the changes. The reason for this is because we knew how big they were and we didnt want to dilute it behind a wall of reasons and excuses, but we just wanted to make sure to keep it as clear and to-the-point as possible, and the players who would be affected by this would know the immediate consequences without us explaining it to them. But now that a bit of time has passed, we feel that it is appropriate to share the reasons behind it.

 

 

 

We initially sat down to discuss the 26k issue and what we could do about that. Safe to say, this meeting ended up covering a much broader area, but I will try to take it step by step. When we first created PvP Worlds, we had a lot of different ideas on how we could distribute loot for kills and what had to be lost by the victim in order for the PKer to claim a reward. During most of development, the value that had to be lost was sitting at 75k, but as the release date approached, we changed it to 25k to keep it in line with the free-to-play game, even though the rewards are a lot greater in members world. So, the first and easiest step to keep the kill-swapping down was to simply put the value back up to 75k and also make sure that this value in no way affected the so called death pot (Ill talk more about that soon).

 

 

 

However, we, as well as you, know that this wont put it to a complete stop, and we have more changes planned for the future. These require a bit more work, so it will take a little while, but it shouldnt have an as big of an impact on the PvP scene as a whole as the most recent changes have had. We will let you know about the details in due time.

 

 

 

One of the reasons why it was so easy to do the 26k trick (besides the obviously low cost) was that it was also very easy to generate earning potential relatively risk free, due to the skulling mechanics and the Protect Item prayer. This, however, is an issue that stretches further than just 26k-ing. Lots of people used the Protect Item prayer just so that they could continuously rush into combat with a single weapon and never risk losing anything (so called one-itemers). This has been the case for as long as PKing has been around, but now they can gain greater rewards for no risk and the weapons players have access to have increased a bit in power from rune 2-handed swords in Classic and dragon daggers in the first few years of RuneScape 2, to godswords and dragon claws. This means that it has gotten increasingly easier to have a very high combat potential with minimal risk.

 

 

 

This is where the Protect Item prayer comes in. Our main reason to disable this on PvP Worlds was to make it slightly harder to gain earning potential risk free, particularly via one-iteming, and to make sure the risk versus reward balance was stabilized. We of course knew that this would have consequences beyond these two groups of people, but we didnt necessarily consider them all to be negative (although were not denying that some certainly are).

 

 

 

The way weapons have increased in power throughout the years has resulted in a big amount of a players combat efficiency to be tied to a single item, which is what made one-iteming so easy, and the cheap Protect Item prayer has become the massively powerful tool that allows this. We do appreciate that there are a lot of people who use these valuable items while still risking wealth in form of armour and jewellery. However, two people in full rune armour can both be risking the same amount of wealth while the items they keep protected vary massively in power (e.g. a dragon scimitar compared to an Armadyl godsword). The prayer simply allows players to bypass a large portion of what is supposed to be a risk vs reward system.

 

 

 

We dont necessarily feel it is a bad thing that people get a bit (or a lot) more careful about when they choose to use these expensive and powerful items. Now, you might argue that the players in question have deserved this bonus when they earned the money to buy it, but that doesnt change the fact that they can still bypass the risk. Secondly, godswords and dragon claws are extremely powerful due to their high hits, and, as far as PvP goes, this has put a big dent in the combat triangle (which wasnt all that dent free to begin with). More specifically, it has caused a major issue for mages, who, due to their lack of armour, have become even easier targets from a class they are supposed to be strong against. We feel that disabling the Protect Item prayer has evened out the combat triangle a bit, which we consider a good thing. People can still use these powerful weapons, but now they have to do so with the risks that follow.

 

 

 

A bigger issue than people not daring to risk their dragon claws and godswords is the abyssal whip. This is a fairly powerful weapon as far as damage over time goes, but lacks the massive hits of more expensive items. However, it is still expensive enough to make some PKers afraid of risking them under the new system. To these people, I would like to repeat something that is briefly mentioned on the Knowledge Base page, which we simply refer to as the death pot. When you die, part of the wealth you have lost beyond the initial 75k (or 25k on a free-to-play world) is added to a separate pot which is used along with your earning potential to generate drops. So if you do risk a whip and lose it, a big part of its value will be saved away for your future drops. In the long run, assuming you get some kills, you will therefore be making this value back. However, it is worth pointing out that the amount of lost wealth that can be transferred to the death pot at any one time is capped, so losing a massive stack of junk items or a godsword would not generate as big of a percentage back into the death pot as less valuable items would, and noted items dont add anything at all. I dont want to give out any exact numbers, but I can at least confirm that a whip will be quite heavily compensated for (although obviously not by its full value!).

 

 

 

Another topic that has been floating around along with these changes are the so called PJers (pile jumpers, player jumpers, etc.). Were hoping that one side effect of the disabling of Protect Item will reduce the amount of players who choose to resort to this method, as waiting around in a dangerous area can now leave them as quite an appealing target for other players. We certainly dont think it will stop it, as even before the update they were quite often risking the valuable weapons other players are now concerned about. However, we do have plans to make 1-versus-1 combat a bit more stable and harder to interrupt, and we hope to have these changes with you in the near future (I will be working on them this week).

 

 

 

Finally, Id like to point out that we will be keeping a very close eye on how the recent update has affected the PvP scene, and we are definitely open to tweaking it if necessary.

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

Mod Benny

[/hide]

 

 

 

I don't understand why they didn't make this an official post or post it along with the update. This really makes me feel that much better about removing protect item. It almost completely changed my view on it. I do think, however, that death pot shouldn't be capped in the sense they do it. I'm not sure if I understand it right, but lets say I retain 70% from losing a whip into my death pot, it seems that the percentage for godswords is much less.

 

 

 

The only thing I don't like about it is brawlers. Sure, brawlers are great experience if used in the wild, but it comes with flaws. If I don't suit up at agility arena, I will be tagged by any pker that camps at the multi spot(right next to the tunnel that can only have 1 person at a time in it). You're pretty much screwed. It's not risk, it's damn near certain death. Or it's going to interrupt your experience so much, that it makes using the brawlers pretty much worthless. On the other hand, if I gear up in order to combat the pkers, I'll become a more likely target to pkers, and thus probably increase my chances of dying. It's really a lose-lose. This is my opinion, and I'm sure many of you have different views, which is fine, but please don't argue that "omg, itz ensane exprence, you shuld haff to riskorz", because I agree with this, it should have some risk. I just wish that risk didn't involve losing my brawlers. maybe create an item that you can carry in your bag that's worth so much gp that you buy from npc that will allow you to keep your brawlers(and only your brawlers) if you die. Value is up to debate, but I like it cause it adds a money sink, and doesn't render brawlers nearly useless.

[hihihi727]

I don't see how this update makes a difference. When i tried 26king for myself, i used coins, not an item plus item protect anyway. But i can't use brawlers now!!!!!! I've already lost 225k from using my melee ones but thats not that much. Whats annoying is that i can't train in the wilderness volcano anymore without risking 3 MILLION GP i mean since i can only earn 130k an hour 3 million gp is really quite alot for me. I mean, after losing the 76k i was risking a few times i thought that it wasn't really worth the risk but now its REALLY not worth the risk..... :evil:

[meb]

How does this affect people who 26k (or should I say 76)? All I see is a HUUUGE PVP nuke shoved up legit PK'ers behind. I consider myself a decent PKer and I get about 2 kills every death on average. Those kills should each be 1m+ if I want to break even because losing my whip and rune armour is quite expensive. Chances are that's not going to happen. And that's when I spend half an hour doing nothing but gaining EP; I get most of my kills at about 30% because I really can't be bothered to wait for EP boosts. I doubt I'm coming back. Especially considering my favourite way to PK was with an AGS :lol: .

[Skull]

Maybe now when I pk I'll actually get drops :lol:

[mweddle]

I hate this so much. I spent a month maxing out a 1 iteming dds/claws pure now its a waste,or is it? #-o Remember now we will have clan wars ffa pures : I dont know what to do then ntil I find the best pure tho for ffa. :x

[Silver_Corner]

How does this affect people who 26k (or should I say 76)?

 

 

 

Just Commenting on this small part.

 

 

 

Advanced 26k'ers often used an EP farming method known as 4-item EP building.

 

 

 

They would equip 3 expensive items (such as Bandos Top, Bandos Bottom, DFS) and then have an item such as dragon boots. In the event they were attacked, they would simply turn on protect item prayer, and all 4 items would be saved. When they were not attacked, they would have the protect item prayer off and would be risking the value of the dragon boots, thus building potential risking essentially 0 value.

 

 

 

Now this type of EP building is not possible, and if you want to build EP, you HAVE to risk 75k in one form or another.

 

 

 

So to answer your question. Yes, protect item removal does stop this type of 26king from occurring, but if you read Mod Bennie's post (QFC posted a few posts ago) you will see this was only one of the many factors leading to the removal of the protection prayer.

[abbydog95]

Jagex... =D> To [bleeping] up pking for everyone (except for the the 76kers a.k.a. the real problem!) just give us the damn 1 item and we'll be happy :?

[Death123141]

(except for the the 76kers a.k.a. the real problem!)

 

Are there really that many people 76king?

[howbadisbad]

Jagex... =D> To [bleeping] up pking for everyone (except for the the 76kers a.k.a. the real problem!) just give us the damn 1 item and we'll be happy :?

 

 

 

I prefer it this way

 

 

 

better drops imo

 

dude i killed wouldnt have been risking 76k if he wasn't skilled/ had protect item

 

 

 

[hide=nub got pwned][/hide]

[abbydog95]

(except for the the 76kers a.k.a. the real problem!)

 

Are there really that many people 76king?

 

There will be more, now that the pjers outa there, only a few foolish and brave using gs/claws will be going after them... :wall:

[howbadisbad]

(except for the the 76kers a.k.a. the real problem!)

 

Are there really that many people 76king?

 

There will be more, now that the pjers outa there, only a few foolish and brave using gs/claws will be going after them... :wall:

 

It pretty impossible to die if you are pjing btw

 

i haven't noticed a decrease in the amount of pjers in bh worlds at all

[Death123141]

(except for the the 76kers a.k.a. the real problem!)

 

Are there really that many people 76king?

 

There will be more, now that the pjers outa there, only a few foolish and brave using gs/claws will be going after them... :wall:

 

From your personal experience have you seen poeple 75king don't just say its happening alot have you seen it?

[ScubaZteve]

Feel free to poke a hole in my theory because I haven't thoroughly thought this through, but wouldn't making ep earned by damaged did/taken fix this? Think about it, make the damage you do on a pvp world to another player will increase your ep by a ratio related to your hp in some way. That way 26k have to spend money on food to gain ep, something that could cost a lot of money(although i'm sure they'll find a very cheap food to use), something that will require a good amount of baking, and a good amount of activity (versus the ability to afk with the current system.) Also pjers who arent in combat very long, will gain very little ep, hurting them as well.

 

Killing someone would affect ep% the same way, so people 1 iteming in lumbridge wouldn't gain ep quickly, or maybe even at all.

[n64jive]

I see flaws. They would have to make it a relative amount to the number of hp a normal pker would have. Therefor, you would get a new breed of ksing, where people fight eachother with an inventory of brews.

[Miskatake]

Eh, I still got PJed after this update. But, it was the F2P Bounty..

 

 

 

PJing still exists, atleast, in F2P.

 

 

 

I didn't see any 1-itemers. Now I saw more no-itemers. Then I saw players who took training swords, normal staves, bronze swords, any kind of weapon which are considered to be 'nooby' weapons for high levels..well, these idiots just patrol the PvP area and waste people's food. I noticed that the amount of no-itemers and these idiots increased.

 

 

 

lmao =D>

 

 

 

Then I decided to bank my stuff and go for a walk (run) in the F2P PvP area. I checked Rimmington, and guess what, I found four players in the archer shop, they were 26king there. Two pairs, four players, 26king. I decided to tell them that 26kers fail hard..They started to harass me, and all of a sudden about two white dots appear on the minimap. Oh crap, my little journey lead one clan after me. Luckily, they could attack the 26kers too, and so I escaped.