Abortion what do you think of it?

[kingbrooks]

 

 

 

We got of work and cried for a day and decided that the best thing for us (and (we hoped) the baby) to do was to get an abortion

 

 

How could the best thing for the baby ever be abortion?

 

The parents working all day and not paying much attention to the conscious baby. The unconscious baby can be aborted to avoid all that.

 

So your saying the baby would rather have not lived than have a crappy childhood? Your assuming quite a lot there.

 

 

 

Come one, you can see that he/they are feeling real bad about it and don't really need people to go and slam them for doing that and they know it was wrong(at least he does).

 

 

 

Then maybe he/she/they shouldn't of posted in a topic thats open for arguement and debate? That reminds me shouldn't this be in the debate club thread?

 

 

 

I am pro-life and I agree with the posts made against this abortion.

[Pirate_Felix]

^why do you say when sperm/egg are united its alive? Why pick such an random point?

[Zierro]

^why do you say when sperm/egg are united its alive? Why pick such an random point?

 

 

 

Whether it's conception, birth, 2nd trimester, whatever, it all seems pretty random to me. Babies develop gradually, so it's a very murky subject.

[Rien]

Then maybe he/she/they shouldn't of posted in a topic thats open for arguement and debate? That reminds me shouldn't this be in the debate club thread?

This may be a controversial topic, but that doesn't give anyone license to be insensitive. :|

 

Also, the Debate Club is specifically used to hold RuneScape-related debates; OT is the proper board for this topic.

 

 

 

Whatever your views, you should at least be able to recognize that such choices aren't always so easy to make; you simply can't consider this issue in strictly black-and-white terms. If I had been in his position, I would have probably have made the same decision, but that doesn't mean I would have been any happier in having to make it. It's a hard choice either way, so a bit of empathy would be appreciated, even if you ultimately disagree with his decision. 'Not to sound like I'm lecturing or anything, by the way.

 

 

 

Anyway, since the morality of abortion is subjective, I believe that it should be made legal and readly available everywhere. To be honest, I've never really understood why anyone would object to this, since no one would be forced to have an abortion if they didn't want one; the option would simply exist for those who may consider it. As for possible limitations on abortion, I'd be hesitant to allow any to be performed after the first trimester (with a few notable exceptions which have already been outlined earlier in this thread), but this is entirely my opinion. It's difficult to draw a line prior to birth, so I'm not sure if there should even be an attempt to enforce one; perhaps it'd be best to leave the decision to the discretion of the parents and attending doctors in every individual case? I'm aware that this could potentially lead to abortions of practically-mature fetuses, but it would be wrong to force my reservations and personal beliefs on anyone else, and I don't know that there is anything else that could be done. :|

[nickeley102]

 

 

 

We got of work and cried for a day and decided that the best thing for us (and (we hoped) the baby) to do was to get an abortion

 

 

How could the best thing for the baby ever be abortion?

 

I couldnt ever justify what we did. We made a mistake and someone else paid for it. However, arguing when life begins is a pretty complex moral issue. Going through all this made me realise the I am a social theorist. I believe that life is given meaning through your interactions with other people, that is why I am prochoice.

 

 

 

It is easy enough to argue that all things have a similar quantum make-up. What makes human life so special (in my opinion) is inter-human relations which do not begin in the womb

[nerdboyxxx]

I don't want to get into any moral debates here, this is just my pojt of view. I know putting forward my viewpoint is bound to get some criticism, but it doesn't mean we have to debate the pojnt. I put in my 10 cents, you do the same, we're cool ;)

 

 

 

I approve of stem cell research, what I don't approve of is killing our children. People will argue it's not a child until it is out of the womb. Well, I see differently. It lives, it (kinda) eats so it's alive. And it's wrong. Stupid 20 year-olds get drunk, have sex, then get pregnant and kill the kid because they don't want to have the responsibility. You can go through with the birth and put the kid up for adoption, there are a lot of good people who will take care of children in such circumstances. Honestly, a LOT of pain through birth is worth saving a life.

 

 

 

Go ahead, smash the crap out of me for what I just said. I enjoy to hear your viewpoints :P

[kingbrooks]

^why do you say when sperm/egg are united its alive? Why pick such an random point?

 

 

 

As zierro said pregnancy is all development, and before pregnancy the baby is obviously not alive, and after the baby obviously is alive: so when does the baby start "living"?

 

 

 

Personally I believe when the chromosones meet etc etc cells start dividing.

[Howlin0001]

I disagree with abortion.

 

I don't think it is right that a living animals, a human infact, should be murdered because a women let herself get knocked up without wanting a pregnancy.

 

And what about the ones that are accidents? Like the male/female use protection but still gets pregnant? What about then? I don't think it would be fair to call that getting knocked up.

 

 

 

 

I believe that it should be made legal and readly available everywhere.

 

But in that case you still would want checks for people who are wanting an abortion.

[Zierro]

And what about the ones that are accidents? Like the male/female use protection but still gets pregnant? What about then? I don't think it would be fair to call that getting knocked up.

 

 

 

But if you have consenting sex then you should be aware that protection isn't always 100% effective. There will always be a risk of getting pregnant. Protection only minimizes those risks, it doesn't completely eliminate them.

[kingbrooks]

I disagree with abortion.

 

I don't think it is right that a living animals, a human infact, should be murdered because a women let herself get knocked up without wanting a pregnancy.

 

And what about the ones that are accidents? Like the male/female use protection but still gets pregnant? What about then? I don't think it would be fair to call that getting knocked up.

 

 

 

I believe I explained this in my post, if not I forgot. I believe they should be allowed an abortion however the problem is how can they proove they did use contraception?

 

 

 

I also believe there should be further education on protection as well as information that an abortion is meant to be the final solution, not somewhere you can just turn up to.

[zeekyhbomb]

And what about the ones that are accidents? Like the male/female use protection but still gets pregnant? What about then? I don't think it would be fair to call that getting knocked up.

 

 

 

But if you have consenting sex then you should be aware that protection isn't always 100% effective. There will always be a risk of getting pregnant. Protection only minimizes those risks, it doesn't completely eliminate them.

 

 

 

He isn't saying they aren't aware that there is still a risk of pregnancy. If you're using birth control, and it fails somehow, why do you suddenly need to accept the responsibility of parenthood? Sex isn't just about reproducing.

[Zierro]

He isn't saying they aren't aware that there is still a risk of pregnancy.

 

 

 

I'm aware of that. But what he is saying is that if you take birth control then you're excused to have an abortion. I am for legalization, but I still think that's a bad argument.

 

 

 

 

If you're using birth control, and it fails somehow, why do you suddenly need to accept the responsibility of parenthood?

 

 

 

Because birth control isn't 100% effective. Abstinence is. Just because you put in a little effort doesn't serve as an excuse for you. Real effort for not getting pregnant unfortunately only lies in abstinence. It's like you're bartering with fate or something. "Well, at least I tried. I should be excused to do whatever I want to this baby since it should have never even been born. I used protection!"

 

 

 

Obviously your "effort" isn't good enough if you got pregnant. Jeez, by that logic you can use pulling-out as a justification.

[SeanyTheSailor]

Because birth control isn't 100% effective. Abstinence is. Just because you put in a little effort doesn't serve as an excuse for you. Real effort for not getting pregnant unfortunately only lies in abstinence.

 

 

 

Its a good thing your parents and grandparents weren't as fixated on abstinence as you. And what gives anyone the right to tell someone "No you have to do this, even though it will cost[poop]loads of money, excruciating pain for you ma'am, many a sleepless night, plenty of headaches, time worth more than or equal to the money it will cost, oh ya don't forget we will complain when you use your own primitive methods to abort it.

 

 

 

Why in the name of whatever you believe in do you think you should be able to put THAT kind of responsibility on people, a couple or a single parent.

 

 

 

NOTE :I am not saying I support people using primitive and grotesque methods of abortion, I am extremely opposed to it, but people will use them and you know it.

[Zierro]

Its a good thing your parents and grandparents weren't as fixated on abstinence as you.

 

 

 

Nice assumption. I've had sex. Now I'm gonna get bombarded with, "Stop trying to look cool nerd!" Oh well. Anything to prove someone wrong. \

 

 

 

And what gives anyone the right to tell someone "No you have to do this, even though it will cost[poop]loads of money, excruciating pain for you ma'am, many a sleepless night, plenty of headaches, time worth more than or equal to the money it will cost, oh ya don't forget we will complain when you use your own primitive methods to abort it.

 

 

 

Apparently you're not reading my posts: I am for legalization, but I still think that's a bad argument.

[l0rd]

 

Nice assumption. I've had sex. Now I'm gonna get bombarded with, "Stop trying to look cool nerd!" Oh well. Anything to prove someone wrong. \

 

Stop trying to look cool nerd!

 

 

 

Oh, and if having an abortion is available to someone, they shouldn't have to live in abstinence just because of the "what if". Living in fear is never good.

[SeanyTheSailor]

Nice assumption. I've had sex. Now I'm gonna get bombarded with, "Stop trying to look cool nerd!" Oh well. Anything to prove someone wrong. \

 

I never claimed you didn't I merely pointed out the fact that you would be in trouble if they were. Trying to prove something?

[Zierro]

Stop trying to look cool nerd!

 

 

 

Do you really think a mortal can stop me?

 

 

 

Oh, and if having an abortion is available to someone, they shouldn't have to live in abstinence just because of the "what if". Living in fear is never good.

 

 

 

Yes, I think they should be allowed to have an abortion. I just think that flinging the blame on a broken condom or a faulty pill is just utterly ridiculous though.

 

 

 

It's like wearing a helmet at a construction site and having a building fall on your head. Who's to blame here? The person for thinking the helmet makes him invincible or the helmet for not making him invincible? It's the blame game. If you have consenting sex, with the knowledge that sex (even protected sex) can lead to babies, then you are responsible for having that child if it does happen.

 

 

 

PS: By responsible I don't mean you need to take care of it. I mean you were the one who caused it.

 

 

 

I never claimed you didn't I merely pointed out the fact that you would be in trouble if they were. Trying to prove something?

 

 

 

You said I was fixated on abstinence. What else could that mean when you're implying I would never be born if my ancestors felt the same way as me?

[SeanyTheSailor]

It's like wearing a helmet at a construction site and having a building fall on your head. Who's to blame here? The person for thinking the helmet makes him invincible or the helmet for not making him invincible? It's the blame game. If you have consenting sex, with the knowledge that sex (even protected sex) can lead to babies, then you are responsible for having that child if it does happen.

 

 

 

So, by that logic, even though you took precautions and you still got screwed over(forgive the pun) you just have to "deal with it" even though to "deal with it" means a [poop]load of trouble for you, while everyone who made the law gets to laugh as your life plans spiral madly down the dream drain.

 

 

 

With that analogy it is like you are blaming rape victims for being raped even if they carried a tazer that malfunctioned or a gun that didn't fire. could you REALLY look them in the eye and say that? If you can you are the biggest piece of you-know-what on the face of the Earth. And I'm not talking about girls that lead you on and all of a sudden they aren't ready (though raping them is equally as bad).

[Zierro]

So, by that logic, even though you took precautions and you still got screwed over(forgive the pun) you just have to "deal with it" even though to "deal with it" means a [poop]load of trouble for you, while everyone who made the law gets to laugh as your life plans spiral madly down the dream drain.

 

 

 

How many times do I have to say I am for abortion being legal? 10?

 

 

 

With that analogy it is like you are blaming rape victims for being raped even if they carried a tazer that malfunctioned or a gun that didn't fire. could you REALLY look them in the eye and say that? If you can you are the biggest piece of you-know-what on the face of the Earth. And I'm not talking about girls that lead you on and all of a sudden they aren't ready (though raping them is equally as bad).

 

 

 

"That's like saying it's okay to destroy the world!"

 

 

 

Seriously, where are you going with this? If you do an action and you have complete knowledge of the outcome, then that means you are responsible for it. There is always a chance you can be raped (even in your own bed) so I don't know why you would use that analogy. You're pretty much saying if you're not fully armed and awake 24/7 and you get raped, then it's your fault. I wasn't saying that at all. I was just saying if you have sex, even protected sex, and you get someone pregnant then you caused a baby to get born. The only possible way you can say you didn't cause the baby is if you were raped.

[SeanyTheSailor]

I'm not contesting you believing that abortion should be legal I'm contesting the fact that you think you should be forced to have the kid even if you use protection. And listen to yourself, "Even if you use protection you can get pregnant." which i compared to "Even if you use protection you can get raped." And don't try to put blame on me by saying what I am suggesting is ridiculous I never once said that you should be armed and awake 24/7. What YOU are suggesting is that if Fate drops a dump truck of manure on you, you should have to put up with it when you don't have to.

 

 

 

To sum up you are saying that if you fall through a crack in life you just have to take it, when there is a way not to. Would you as happily "suck it up" if all your money and possessions somehow fell through a crack in the system? I think not.

[SeanyTheSailor]

And I am resigning from this thread before it turns into a flame war. Say what you like about me.

[Zierro]

I'm not contesting you believing that abortion should be legal I'm contesting the fact that you think yiou should be forced to have the kid even if you use protection.

 

 

 

What...?

 

 

 

1.) If I think abortion should be legal then that means I think it should be legal. I don't know how else to put that. If someone has a child and doesn't want to give birth to them, I think they should have the right to have an abortion. That isn't to say I think it's morally right though, just that it should be legal. There is a big difference between legality and morality. I think being greedy is immoral but I don't think there should be a law against buying all the turkey at a store.

 

 

 

2.) If you're saying I am only against abortions that involved protected sex, then what does that leave? Are you saying I think it's okay to have an abortion if you didn't use a condom, but if you did then you must have the baby? That doesn't make sense.

 

 

 

Like I said, it's the argument I don't like. Just because I think the argument is stupid doesn't automatically mean I'm saying they must have the baby. They don't have to have it, but they also don't have to think of pathetic excuses like pretending like they aren't responsible for causing the conception.

 

 

 

What YOU are suggesting is that if Fate drops a dump truck of manure on you, you should have to put up with it when you don't have to.

 

 

 

No I'm not.

 

 

 

Firstly, getting the garbage off of you isn't the same as killing a fetus.

 

 

 

Secondly, I'm not saying you can't get the garbage off and I'm not saying you shouldn't have an abortion. All I am saying is that you are responsible for the birth, condom or not. If you walked under a falling garbage truck that you saw in the sky and it lands on you, then you are responsible for that happening. I never said you deserved to suffer or anything like that - merely that you caused it.

[Giordano]

Is this guy [developmentally delayed]ed?

[Zierro]

Is this guy [developmentally delayed]?

 

 

 

What did I say that sounded [developmentally delayed]ed?

[Giordano]

Is this guy [developmentally delayed]?

 

 

 

What did I say that sounded [developmentally delayed]?

 

No not you Zierro, the other guy. You're not a [developmentally delayed]. :D

 

 

 

You said you were for the legalization of abortion and the other guy said "OMGWTFBBQ y u wantz illegalz?" 10 times. :?