I see it quite simply.

 

Abortion is ending something. That something is a babies life. To end an innocent human being's life is murder. Therefore abortion is murder.

Murder is wrong. So, abortion is wrong.

 

You take away every murderer's and rapist's choice to do what they do and you throw them in jail. I'm all for taking away a mother's choice of killing her own baby, just like I am all for taking away a murderer's choice to kill his fellow man.

 

Then buying a new tshirt is murder too. It's money you could have used to donate a mosquito net and save a whole family.

Yes let's all [bleep] up some teenage girls life because some stuck up cristian [puncture]s said so.

 

It's your [bleep]ing body of you don't want another human growing inside you and then coming out it's your own choice. Dammit these stupid issues like the gay debate piss the cabbage out of me, let people male their own [bleep]ing decisions it's their body their life their future. If you disagree there is something wrong with you, what if I told you no you can't eat that bacon cause my friend is a Muslim so stop eating the [bleep]ing pig! You wouldn't be very impressed would you? That would be how I feel.

I'm pro-choice.

I wonder how many strong pro-life advocates adopt unwanted children.

If I couldn't have my own, I certainly would.

Yes let's all [bleep] up some teenage girls life because some stuck up cristian [puncture]s said so.

 

It's your [bleep]ing body of you don't want another human growing inside you and then coming out it's your own choice. Dammit these stupid issues like the gay debate piss the cabbage out of me, let people male their own [bleep]ing decisions it's their body their life their future. If you disagree there is something wrong with you, what if I told you no you can't eat that bacon cause my friend is a Muslim so stop eating the [bleep]ing pig! You wouldn't be very impressed would you? That would be how I feel.

 

I'm in no way christian, and I don't agree with abortion... admittedly, for very different reasons.

 

And a ban upon abortion would NOT be what ruins a teenage girl's life. It is her own decision to have sex, or the crime of another person. If you can't handle the possibility of having children, then don't have sex. The whole idea of creating a fetus for your own pleasure, then destroying it just seems absurd. But I suppose that's out of the question for today's average feeble-minded teenager who allows particular hormonal urges to govern their entire life.

 

Having sex when you're not ready for children is a mistake, in my opinion, and such great mistakes should have great consequences.

Yes let's all [bleep] up some teenage girls life because some stuck up cristian [puncture]s said so.

 

It's your [bleep]ing body of you don't want another human growing inside you and then coming out it's your own choice. Dammit these stupid issues like the gay debate piss the cabbage out of me, let people male their own [bleep]ing decisions it's their body their life their future. If you disagree there is something wrong with you, what if I told you no you can't eat that bacon cause my friend is a Muslim so stop eating the [bleep]ing pig! You wouldn't be very impressed would you? That would be how I feel.

 

I'm in no way christian, and I don't agree with abortion... admittedly, for very different reasons.

 

And a ban upon abortion would NOT be what ruins a teenage girl's life. It is her own decision to have sex, or the crime of another person. If you can't handle the possibility of having children, then don't have sex. The whole idea of creating a fetus for your own pleasure, then destroying it just seems absurd. But I suppose that's out of the question for today's average feeble-minded teenager who allows particular hormonal urges to govern their entire life.

 

Having sex when you're not ready for children is a mistake, in my opinion, and such great mistakes should have great consequences.

The problem with that is the consequence is a living breathing person that is going to feel just as much pain as the mother will. How is that fair? The child doesn't deserve to be brought up by someone that can't look after them. It's not it's fault that it's mother had sex like that, but it's going to feel the consequences.

And while I don't exactly agree with everything bluehooloovo said, she just won this topic. <_<

What don't you agree with? I'd love to argue back and forth. :)

 

Well, I don't necessarily agree with having an abortion to avoid going through pregnancy. If someone isn't responsible enough to take all the necessary precautions, shouldn't they have to deal with the consequences instead of taking the easiest (by no means is abortion easy, though) route? Of course, it'd be different if you did take all the necessary precautions and something didn't work quite right, or something worse happened to you (such as rape) and you couldn't have prevented becoming pregnant even if you wanted to. I said I was pro-life, but...I guess I'm pro-life + pro-choice. It depends on the situation, I guess. You did, however, raise a good point about how pregnancy can threaten the life of the mother and child. If someone is in that situation, I guess it makes sense to spare the mother and lose the child.

 

So, to summarize:

 

OK to have an abortion:

-Rape victim

-Took precautions, precautions failed

-Serious threat to mother

 

Not OK to have an abortion:

-Acted irresponsibly, could have prevented it

 

Of course, maybe everything is different from a woman's perspective, but seeing as I don't have one of those...

 

Yes let's all [bleep] up some teenage girls life because some stuck up cristian [puncture]s said so.

 

Ya rly, because stuck-up Christians are the only ones who are pro-life. Anyways, in most situations, the teenage girl [bleep]ed up her own life. Why take it out on the baby?

 

It's your [bleep]ing body of you don't want another human growing inside you and then coming out it's your own choice. Dammit these stupid issues like the gay debate piss the cabbage out of me, let people male their own [bleep]ing decisions it's their body their life their future. If you disagree there is something wrong with you, what if I told you no you can't eat that bacon cause my friend is a Muslim so stop eating the [bleep]ing pig! You wouldn't be very impressed would you? That would be how I feel.

 

It's your [bleep]ing body, if you don't want another human growing inside you don't have sex. And no, it's not just their future they're affecting. What if your mom had an abortion? I doubt you'd be in the same place you are today. ;-)

 

Yes let's all [bleep] up some teenage girls life because some stuck up cristian [puncture]s said so.

 

It's your [bleep]ing body of you don't want another human growing inside you and then coming out it's your own choice. Dammit these stupid issues like the gay debate piss the cabbage out of me, let people male their own [bleep]ing decisions it's their body their life their future. If you disagree there is something wrong with you, what if I told you no you can't eat that bacon cause my friend is a Muslim so stop eating the [bleep]ing pig! You wouldn't be very impressed would you? That would be how I feel.

 

I'm in no way christian, and I don't agree with abortion... admittedly, for very different reasons.

 

And a ban upon abortion would NOT be what ruins a teenage girl's life. It is her own decision to have sex, or the crime of another person. If you can't handle the possibility of having children, then don't have sex. The whole idea of creating a fetus for your own pleasure, then destroying it just seems absurd. But I suppose that's out of the question for today's average feeble-minded teenager who allows particular hormonal urges to govern their entire life.

 

Having sex when you're not ready for children is a mistake, in my opinion, and such great mistakes should have great consequences.

The problem with that is the consequence is a living breathing person that is going to feel just as much pain as the mother will. How is that fair? The child doesn't deserve to be brought up by someone that can't look after them. It's not it's fault that it's mother had sex like that, but it's going to feel the consequences.

 

That's not an absolute.

I'm pro choice but if it were me in the situation I would be against the abortion. But being the guy I don't get nearly as much say.

I see it quite simply.

 

Abortion is ending something. That something is a babies life. To end an innocent human being's life is murder. Therefore abortion is murder.

Murder is wrong. So, abortion is wrong.

 

You take away every murderer's and rapist's choice to do what they do and you throw them in jail. I'm all for taking away a mother's choice of killing her own baby, just like I am all for taking away a murderer's choice to kill his fellow man.

 

Then buying a new tshirt is murder too. It's money you could have used to donate a mosquito net and save a whole family.

 

What? You make absolutely no sense.

 

Everyone talks all about "choice" and "it's your body" and so on.

So, using the same argument, I could say "It's his body and his choice to go kill that little girl on the play ground. You have no right to stop him". or "It's her body and her choice to go have that baby killed because she doesn't want to deal with it." No one (in the right mind) thinks that everyone ought to have the choice of whether they want to go murder their neighbor or not. We think that murderer's ought to be stopped. I think women looking to have their babies killed ought to be stopped also.

 

If you don't want to raise it, adopt it out. If it's threatening the mother's life, then why does one death make saving another one right? Abortion to save a mother's life still leaves you with a innocent life being lost.

And while I don't exactly agree with everything bluehooloovo said, she just won this topic. <_<

What don't you agree with? I'd love to argue back and forth. :)

 

Well, I don't necessarily agree with having an abortion to avoid going through pregnancy. If someone isn't responsible enough to take all the necessary precautions, shouldn't they have to deal with the consequences instead of taking the easiest (by no means is abortion easy, though) route? Of course, it'd be different if you did take all the necessary precautions and something didn't work quite right, or something worse happened to you (such as rape) and you couldn't have prevented becoming pregnant even if you wanted to. I said I was pro-life, but...I guess I'm pro-life + pro-choice. It depends on the situation, I guess. You did, however, raise a good point about how pregnancy can threaten the life of the mother and child. If someone is in that situation, I guess it makes sense to spare the mother and lose the child.

 

So, to summarize:

 

OK to have an abortion:

-Rape victim

-Took precautions, precautions failed

-Serious threat to mother

 

Not OK to have an abortion:

-Acted irresponsibly, could have prevented it

 

Of course, maybe everything is different from a woman's perspective, but seeing as I don't have one of those...

I can agree with this. Legally, I think it's impossible to enforce "You can only have an abortion if you tried to prevent the pregnancy in the first place" and trying it would lead to a whole mess of trouble, but I do agree that if they were irresponsible, then they deserve everything that comes along with it and hopefully they're able to grow up and either take proper responsibility for the child or put it up for adoption in the hopes things will turn out as well as they did for you. :)

Yes let's all [bleep] up some teenage girls life because some stuck up cristian [puncture]s said so.

 

It's your [bleep]ing body of you don't want another human growing inside you and then coming out it's your own choice. Dammit these stupid issues like the gay debate piss the cabbage out of me, let people male their own [bleep]ing decisions it's their body their life their future. If you disagree there is something wrong with you, what if I told you no you can't eat that bacon cause my friend is a Muslim so stop eating the [bleep]ing pig! You wouldn't be very impressed would you? That would be how I feel.

 

I'm in no way christian, and I don't agree with abortion... admittedly, for very different reasons.

 

And a ban upon abortion would NOT be what ruins a teenage girl's life. It is her own decision to have sex, or the crime of another person. If you can't handle the possibility of having children, then don't have sex. The whole idea of creating a fetus for your own pleasure, then destroying it just seems absurd. But I suppose that's out of the question for today's average feeble-minded teenager who allows particular hormonal urges to govern their entire life.

 

Having sex when you're not ready for children is a mistake, in my opinion, and such great mistakes should have great consequences.

 

We are SUPPOSED to have sex. If we weren't then females would lay unfertilised eggs, and the males would fertilize them. If we weren't supposed to have sex, why does it feel good? Nobody creates a fetus FOR their own pleasure and then destroy it, but they made have created a fetus FROM THE RESULT of their own pleasure. If having sex when you're not ready for children is a mistake then there would be no pleasure involved as to keep people from doing it.

Yes let's all [bleep] up some teenage girls life because some stuck up cristian [puncture]s said so.

 

Ya rly, because stuck-up Christians are the only ones who are pro-life. Anyways, in most situations, the teenage girl [bleep]ed up her own life. Why take it out on the baby?

I'd love to see some statistics on the "most situations" part. And why take it out no the baby? Because scientifically speaking, it's not a baby, nor is it a human, it cannot think, survive on its own, communicate or do anything remotely human.

Actually, scientifically speaking, it is human. Just check the DNA. Though you're right that it's not a baby. Depending on the time since fertilization it could be any number of things.

Can we please drop this stupid 'well don't have sex then' argument? I can only imagine a virgin or a 40 year old lady ever saying that.

 

We are hardwired to do it, our hardwiring has enough internal conflict with our culture as it is. Maybe it's why so many people have mental disorders nowadays :rolleyes:

 

Then buying a new tshirt is murder too. It's money you could have used to donate a mosquito net and save a whole family.

 

What? You make absolutely no sense.

 

It makes perfect sense.

Yes let's all [bleep] up some teenage girls life because some stuck up cristian [puncture]s said so.

 

Ya rly, because stuck-up Christians are the only ones who are pro-life. Anyways, in most situations, the teenage girl [bleep]ed up her own life. Why take it out on the baby?

I'd love to see some statistics on the "most situations" part. And why take it out no the baby? Because scientifically speaking, it's not a baby, nor is it a human, it cannot think, survive on its own, communicate or do anything remotely human.

 

You don't think that most pregnant teenage girls are pregnant because they acted irresponsibly? It's impossible that the majority of those pregnancies were intended or a result of rape. It's not human? I'm not a scientist, but I do know that a human fetus has the same DNA that only Homo sapians have. A fetus is just the very first step in human growth. It doesn't think? Well, there are lots of studies that will argue with you on that. Here's one, for example. Anyways, so I'm guessing that those things that look like humans, from birth to three or four years old aren't actually human, right? Because they all can't survive on their own. I'm guessing mentally handicapped people aren't human either, right? Because they can't all survive on their own.

 

It can't do anything remotely human? (Don't click show if you have a weak stomach!)

 

 

Personally I just follow this golden rule: Your Body, your rules. done me well these past 19 years. If a woman doesn't think she's ready for such a feat, that's entirely her decision as a human/ living being / soul to make said choice(s). Though I would be a little displeased if they just had sex without protection on purpose and just got abortion after abortion, in which case someone should slap her a bit.

Since when does "in most situations" mean every situation? I completely agree with you -- it is ignorant to think that every teenage girl is pregnant because she was irresponsible. I'm pretty sure I've been saying, since I first posted on this thread, that I don't think abortion is completely wrong in a situation in which it isn't the woman's fault that she's pregnant. Do I think it's the best thing to do? Yes. Do I think there are alternatives? Yes. Would I think someone who was raped and had an abortion is an absolute evil person who's damned to hell? Of course not.

 

I'm not sure why you said that in reply to me, but whatever.

Yes let's all [bleep] up some teenage girls life because some stuck up cristian [puncture]s said so.

 

It's your [bleep]ing body of you don't want another human growing inside you and then coming out it's your own choice. Dammit these stupid issues like the gay debate piss the cabbage out of me, let people male their own [bleep]ing decisions it's their body their life their future. If you disagree there is something wrong with you, what if I told you no you can't eat that bacon cause my friend is a Muslim so stop eating the [bleep]ing pig! You wouldn't be very impressed would you? That would be how I feel.

 

I'm in no way christian, and I don't agree with abortion... admittedly, for very different reasons.

 

And a ban upon abortion would NOT be what ruins a teenage girl's life. It is her own decision to have sex, or the crime of another person. If you can't handle the possibility of having children, then don't have sex. The whole idea of creating a fetus for your own pleasure, then destroying it just seems absurd. But I suppose that's out of the question for today's average feeble-minded teenager who allows particular hormonal urges to govern their entire life.

 

Having sex when you're not ready for children is a mistake, in my opinion, and such great mistakes should have great consequences.

 

We are SUPPOSED to have sex. If we weren't then females would lay unfertilised eggs, and the males would fertilize them. If we weren't supposed to have sex, why does it feel good? Nobody creates a fetus FOR their own pleasure and then destroy it, but they made have created a fetus FROM THE RESULT of their own pleasure. If having sex when you're not ready for children is a mistake then there would be no pleasure involved as to keep people from doing it.

 

We are supposed to have sex because we are supposed to reproduce. Naturally, a human is supposed to be ready to care for a child the time he or she reaches sexual maturity. Supposed to.

 

Nature dictates that at sometime between the ages of 10 to 15, humans become sexually mature and able to reproduce. Their bodies produce hormones to guide them into doing so, hence, the "pleasure" involved, because that is the age at which humans are supposed to reproduce. We live unnatural lives, because in today's society, the majority of humans reaching puberty have not reached the level of mental maturity to care for a child properly, as well as themselves.

 

Just because your body thinks it's the right thing to do does not make it the right thing to do. In fact, in today's society, just because you are physically mature does not mean you are mentally mature. The human brain does not develop completely until the age of 25 IIRC, so the chance of one being mentally ready for reproduction and care of offspring at the same age they become physically mature is very, very low.

 

Can we please drop this stupid 'well don't have sex then' argument? I can only imagine a virgin or a 40 year old lady ever saying that.

 

We are hardwired to do it, our hardwiring has enough internal conflict with our culture as it is. Maybe it's why so many people have mental disorders nowadays :rolleyes:

 

You are hardwired to stop working if you're tired, because in a natural situation, humans should live an active enough lifestyle that they are in shape, and get more than enough exercise regularly. You are hardwired to enjoy sugar, fat, and meat, because these provide the most nutrients, which your body thirsts for. Your body is hardwired to do a lot of things. That is not an excuse. Humans have transcended nature's limitations upon them, to the point where we have placed a constraint upon evolution. Our bodies no longer know what's best for us, so what the body tells us to do is by no means an argument for doing them.

Yes let's all [bleep] up some teenage girls life because some stuck up cristian [puncture]s said so.

 

You just totally invalidated this topic for me. :D You just turned an abortion discussion into an opportunity to "bash" Christians.....weakest argument I've read yet -.-

I didn't really fully read what all was said on the last page... so I don't have much comment on it, heh.

 

I would just like to pipe in again. Something SkillingWoo said just stuck out to me.

 

I think it's important for people (on these forums, as well as in real life) to remember that pro-choice does NOT mean pro-abortion.

 

I've been flat out called a "monster" for thinking it's "okay to kill babies." I don't know how people get "I like to kill babies" out of me saying I'm pro-choice... but more-often-than-not this is the conclusion that people end up making, in my experience anyway.

 

I CLEARLY don't like killing babies. It's kinda ridiculous for me to even have to explain that to people, haha. I just don't think it's okay for people and governments to say what people can and cannot do with their own bodies. Between having an abortion and not having an abortion, I would obviously think keeping the baby would be best, as it's saving a person's life. But there are sooooo many factors and outside influences (poor living conditions, not being able to feed the baby, etc.) that have to be considered on top of that.

 

Also, just as a side note... I think it's funny that people are arguing saying that abortions are okay under such-and-such conditions, but not okay in such-and-such conditions. (I.E., it's okay to abort the child if you were raped by a family member, but it ISN'T okay to get an abortion just because you don't want a baby.) In my honest opinion... you either allow abortions under all circumstances, or none. You shouldn't really be able to pick and choose which aspects of it to legalize or condone.

The reason why pro-life people condone abortion in certain circumstances is because those circumstances are a valid reason for an abortion, like ectopic pregnancies.

 

Seriously, why is "all or none" so bad? Would you have killing a person in self defence illegal?

The reason why pro-life people condone abortion in certain circumstances is because those circumstances are a valid reason for an abortion, like ectopic pregnancies.

 

Seriously, why is "all or none" so bad? Would you have killing a person in self defence illegal?

 

This raises the question, who defines what a "valid reason" is for getting an abortion?

 

Can you clarify if the second sentence is directed towards me or not...? Because I'm pretty sure I said it NEEDED to be "all or none," not that it was 'so bad.'

The reason why pro-life people condone abortion in certain circumstances is because those circumstances are a valid reason for an abortion, like ectopic pregnancies.

 

Seriously, why is "all or none" so bad? Would you have killing a person in self defence illegal?

 

This raises the question, who defines what a "valid reason" is for getting an abortion?

 

 

As is the case with any moral issue, it ultimately comes down to the individual. One woman's reasons for getting an abortion might not justify the act to a pro-life advocate, but that doesn't mean that the reasons aren't decent ones.

The reason why pro-life people condone abortion in certain circumstances is because those circumstances are a valid reason for an abortion, like ectopic pregnancies.

 

Seriously, why is "all or none" so bad? Would you have killing a person in self defence illegal?

 

This raises the question, who defines what a "valid reason" is for getting an abortion?

 

Can you clarify if the second sentence is directed towards me or not...? Because I'm pretty sure I said it NEEDED to be "all or none," not that it was 'so bad.'

 

:???: Bad wording on my part. I meant to say, why is all or none the best option. I have no idea why I typed that.

 

As to your first question, the same people who decide every other condition in the law...the state.

Abortion is clearly someone's own choice, and should be kept that way.

 

Face it, if you had barely enough money to look after yourself and you have 6+ children and a husband/wife, would you abort some of them, or still keep them all?

On the subject of all or none, I take that stance in regards to the law because when the law starts saying that people can't get abortions for such-and-such a reason, then a precedent is set and they can continue to add restrictions until abortion is basically illegal. So while I personally am against it in certain instances and have no problem with it in others (well, not no problem, but unopposed to it at least), I don't think the law should restrict the circumstances I am against.