Abortion what do you think of it?

[Nadril]

I don't see it as being any different than using a condom or birth control if you do it early enough. Sure it's a "wasted potential" of a life, but isn't using a condom wasting that potential of life too?

 

 

 

Really though I personally think that no matter what your views are abortion should be legal, just for the sake of those who want to get a safe abortion. If you don't believe in it, or you don't think a woman should get an abortion, don't do it.

 

 

 

Of course as long as the argument still is based off of charged words like "kill" it isn't going to get anywhere. Chances are someone who feels strongly about pro-life isn't going to listen. In the end most of the arguments against abortion stem from either religious reasons or more of an ignorance on it. After all getting rid of something that wasn't conscious to begin with really isn't any different than just not having it at all. And sure, people should always use condoms and birth control methods but sometimes [cabbage] happens.

[Lenin64]

You can quibble about trimesters all you want, but there is a clear line that can be drawn: birth. After that, it's alive and would be a murder. But before? It's just an abortion. It could not possibly even know the difference, if you believe such a thing is relevant.

 

 

 

A functioning heart is a fine line; brain waves are a fine line; a doctors ageing of the baby is a fine(though ironically inprecise line).

 

 

 

My point was soley that saying it isn't a baby until it is born is a rather inappropriate line. During the later third trimester the baby is perfectly capable of survival with basic newborn medical care; why does its residency change its life status?

 

Because birth isn't a fine line. Once it's out, it's out. It's just a clear way to define when it should be proper to abort. You can say things like "half-way through the 2nd trimester...", but when do you know for sure that it's half-way through, and what if it's done but it was more like 3/4 through and nobody knew until later? You said it yourself, a doctor's ageing is imprecise.

[mmmcannibalism]

Because birth isn't a fine line. Once it's out, it's out. It's just a clear way to define when it should be proper to abort. You can say things like "half-way through the 2nd trimester...", but when do you know for sure that it's half-way through, and what if it's done but it was more like 3/4 through and nobody knew until later? You said it yourself, a doctor's ageing is imprecise.

 

 

 

I should have clarified this when I said things based on dating.

 

 

 

Any such boundaries would be based on clear physiological evidence. I'm not saying any of these I list would be boundaries; for instance(a beating heart is a fine line and easy for a doctor to determine; and brain wave activity is a fine line). I try to base stuff I say on the tenents of roe v wade so the trimester thing comes up. Honestly, its not a good system but its inherently difficult for politicians to medically define life.

[Zierro]

I don't see why people are seeing abortions as "killing". I see it as "preventing" a baby from coming into the world. I'm just not seeing what's so wrong about ending something that never started.

 

 

 

It most definitely is killing, however, the severity of that term differs a lot. We kill germs by washing our hands. We kill sperm by doing you-know-what. There's nothing really wrong with killing either of those. And as for abortion, you could say the same. Yes, the baby was killed but killing isn't always going to be evil or whatever. Sometimes it's necessary. To say abortion isn't killing a fetus just sounds dishonest to me though.

[Nadril]

I don't see why people are seeing abortions as "killing". I see it as "preventing" a baby from coming into the world. I'm just not seeing what's so wrong about ending something that never started.

 

 

 

It most definitely is killing, however, the severity of that term differs a lot. We kill germs by washing our hands. We kill sperm by doing you-know-what. There's nothing really wrong with killing either of those. And as for abortion, you could say the same. Yes, the baby was killed but killing isn't always going to be evil or whatever. Sometimes it's necessary. To say abortion isn't killing a fetus just sounds dishonest to me though.

 

 

 

On the other side of that though I feel people use the word kill on purpose to invoke emotion. It's not the same as killing an actual baby (who is already born) but they still hold it as the same.

[Lateralus]

I don't see why people are seeing abortions as "killing". I see it as "preventing" a baby from coming into the world. I'm just not seeing what's so wrong about ending something that never started.

 

 

 

It most definitely is killing, however, the severity of that term differs a lot. We kill germs by washing our hands. We kill sperm by doing you-know-what. There's nothing really wrong with killing either of those. And as for abortion, you could say the same. Yes, the baby was killed but killing isn't always going to be evil or whatever. Sometimes it's necessary. To say abortion isn't killing a fetus just sounds dishonest to me though.

 

 

 

On the other side of that though I feel people use the word kill on purpose to invoke emotion. It's not the same as killing an actual baby (who is already born) but they still hold it as the same.

 

 

 

Again, it depends on the timing. Terminating a zygote or early stage foetus and terminating a baby a few weeks from birth are quite different things. I don't see the distinction between a foetus that's developed for 8 or so months and a baby who is two weeks old.

[Chained_life]

Anything after around 22 days is not okay with me. You talk about choice while you take away that child's choice to live. You have a choice when you have sex, then you make a mistake and like most mistakes you have to live with it. Unfortunately self accountability and responsibility is dead.

 

 

 

Like many things I'm sure it's secretly liked by our government (world wide). I'm sure we could greatly extend the life of humans, but in fear of the planet becoming overpopulated, government holds scientists back. It's logical and sort of necessary if you think about it, but then you have so many amazing inventions that have yet to come out that can certainly provide us with an unlimited food and water supply. You have the problem with land control. It will be awhile, but I think if government suddenly found cures for cancers, aids, ending abortion and extended human life by rejuvenating cells, we would certainly run out much quicker...

 

 

 

 

 

Some british scientist said there's someone on earth living now that will live to be 1000 years old, but like a lot of these so-called scientists, he's probably some pothead making [cabbage] up to make the news and get funding. :thumbup:

[Nadril]

I don't see why people are seeing abortions as "killing". I see it as "preventing" a baby from coming into the world. I'm just not seeing what's so wrong about ending something that never started.

 

 

 

It most definitely is killing, however, the severity of that term differs a lot. We kill germs by washing our hands. We kill sperm by doing you-know-what. There's nothing really wrong with killing either of those. And as for abortion, you could say the same. Yes, the baby was killed but killing isn't always going to be evil or whatever. Sometimes it's necessary. To say abortion isn't killing a fetus just sounds dishonest to me though.

 

 

 

On the other side of that though I feel people use the word kill on purpose to invoke emotion. It's not the same as killing an actual baby (who is already born) but they still hold it as the same.

 

 

 

Again, it depends on the timing. Terminating a zygote or early stage foetus and terminating a baby a few weeks from birth are quite different things. I don't see the distinction between a foetus that's developed for 8 or so months and a baby who is two weeks old.

 

 

 

Sorry, I was hoping that it would be implied that I meant early on. Should have clarified that.

[unkn0wnwarrior]

I'm impartial in the matter. If you really think it is for the best, then do it. If not, then don't. But only do it if you are completely sure about it (and it's early into the pregnancy). I would leave it all up to my partner if I was in the situation, since she would be the one carrying the baby.

 

 

 

I guess that would make me pro-choice, though.

[nickeley102]

During my time working in the states my girlfriend found out she was pregnant, she is a tiny girl and both of us honestly didnt notice. She was getting sick in the morning all the time and our workmates kept insisting that she was pregnant, I guess we didnt believe it because we didnt want to. We went to town and got a pregnancy test which came back positive so we went to see a doctor.

 

 

 

We went to the doctor who said she was pregnant and did some tests to see how far along she was. We got a call the next day and found out she was 18 weeks, Of course we couldnt believe we had been so stupid for not being 100% protected and for not noticing she was 4 months pregnant. We got of work and cried for a day and decided that the best thing for us (and (we hoped) the baby) to do was to get an abortion because we were both under 20 and at university. We donated some money to local charities hoping that we could help save some children while we were feeling like [cabbage] for what we were doing.

 

 

 

When we called the doctor and asked about an abortion she could not believe that was the option we chose because Amanda was so far along. We were working in Connecticut and the doctor also informed us that abortions were illegal when the mother was so far pregnant in that state and that if we were so determined we would have to go to New York. We decided that we would go through with it anyway and made an appointment in a NY clinic for a couple of weeks time. When we finally made it to the clinic Amanda was 21 weeks pregnant (just over 5 months) and really showing, which made us feel even worse. I had to wait in the waiting room for 2 days while the completed the procedure but apparently inside was pretty disgusting, blood and crying girls everywhere. The experience wasnt cheap and we took our Florida/San Fran holiday but couldnt afford to go to DIsneyland

 

 

 

Thats my story and it felt pretty good writing it down, it is by far the worst thing I have ever done and I have since done everything I can to prevent it happening again. I also try my hardest to be good to babys and children, this isnt a cognitive choice, it just sort of happened.

 

 

 

As for my stance Im pro-choice, I think we made a difficult, but correct, decision

[Serpent Eye]

I'm pro-choice.

 

 

 

I don't know what I think of the actual act itself, but I definently think that the decision should be left to the woman, and no one else should have a say.

 

 

 

Just my opinion.

[gauper_kid]

 

 

 

We got of work and cried for a day and decided that the best thing for us (and (we hoped) the baby) to do was to get an abortion

 

 

How could the best thing for the baby ever be abortion?

[Giordano]

 

 

 

We got of work and cried for a day and decided that the best thing for us (and (we hoped) the baby) to do was to get an abortion

 

 

How could the best thing for the baby ever be abortion?

 

The parents working all day and not paying much attention to the conscious baby. The unconscious baby can be aborted to avoid all that.

[gauper_kid]

 

 

 

We got of work and cried for a day and decided that the best thing for us (and (we hoped) the baby) to do was to get an abortion

 

 

How could the best thing for the baby ever be abortion?

 

The parents working all day and not paying much attention to the conscious baby. The unconscious baby can be aborted to avoid all that.

 

So your saying the baby would rather have not lived than have a crappy childhood? Your assuming quite a lot there.

[deathdrow]

 

 

 

We got of work and cried for a day and decided that the best thing for us (and (we hoped) the baby) to do was to get an abortion

 

 

How could the best thing for the baby ever be abortion?

 

The parents working all day and not paying much attention to the conscious baby. The unconscious baby can be aborted to avoid all that.

 

So your saying the baby would rather have not lived than have a crappy childhood? Your assuming quite a lot there.

 

It wasn't the baby's decision, the baby wasn't even fully grown yet, it wasn't conscious, it wasn't aware of it's existence. Also, having a crappy childhood can [bleep] a kid up later on in life, and lead to them having many psychological issues.

[Giordano]

 

 

 

We got of work and cried for a day and decided that the best thing for us (and (we hoped) the baby) to do was to get an abortion

 

 

How could the best thing for the baby ever be abortion?

 

The parents working all day and not paying much attention to the conscious baby. The unconscious baby can be aborted to avoid all that.

 

So your saying the baby would rather have not lived than have a crappy childhood? Your assuming quite a lot there.

 

Humans always assume, we have to in some cases. Especially to something that we can't even talk to or IT doesn't even knows IT'S OWN SELF exists.

[gauper_kid]

 

 

 

We got of work and cried for a day and decided that the best thing for us (and (we hoped) the baby) to do was to get an abortion

 

 

How could the best thing for the baby ever be abortion?

 

The parents working all day and not paying much attention to the conscious baby. The unconscious baby can be aborted to avoid all that.

 

So your saying the baby would rather have not lived than have a crappy childhood? Your assuming quite a lot there.

 

Humans always assume, we have to in some cases. Especially to something that we can't even talk to or IT doesn't even knows IT'S OWN SELF exists.

 

But it will.A life is a life, whether it knows it or not. Can you justify slaughtering animals for the fun of it, because they're not self-aware?

[deathdrow]

 

 

 

We got of work and cried for a day and decided that the best thing for us (and (we hoped) the baby) to do was to get an abortion

 

 

How could the best thing for the baby ever be abortion?

 

The parents working all day and not paying much attention to the conscious baby. The unconscious baby can be aborted to avoid all that.

 

So your saying the baby would rather have not lived than have a crappy childhood? Your assuming quite a lot there.

 

Humans always assume, we have to in some cases. Especially to something that we can't even talk to or IT doesn't even knows IT'S OWN SELF exists.

 

But it will.A life is a life, whether it knows it or not. Can you justify slaughtering animals for the fun of it, because they're not self-aware?

 

You can't say it's definitely going to live, and it really isn't a life yet, it's still a bunch of cells forming, although 5 months in really is late to be getting an abortion, I don't agree with that myself, but it's their choice. You can't justify slaughtering animals because they're (arguably) not self-aware, but you can justify killing them for food. and babies are delicious.

[Zierro]

and it really isn't a life yet, it's still a bunch of cells forming,

 

 

 

So, the cells aren't alive?

 

 

 

Changed my opinion on this a bit since last time I came here. I think you should legally have the right to have an abortion, but that's not to say it's morally right at all.

[Giordano]

 

 

 

We got of work and cried for a day and decided that the best thing for us (and (we hoped) the baby) to do was to get an abortion

 

 

How could the best thing for the baby ever be abortion?

 

The parents working all day and not paying much attention to the conscious baby. The unconscious baby can be aborted to avoid all that.

 

So your saying the baby would rather have not lived than have a crappy childhood? Your assuming quite a lot there.

 

Humans always assume, we have to in some cases. Especially to something that we can't even talk to or IT doesn't even knows IT'S OWN SELF exists.

 

But it will.A life is a life, whether it knows it or not. Can you justify slaughtering animals for the fun of it, because they're not self-aware?

 

So we're slaughtering babies for the fun of it? What the hell are you talking about? I'm not saying abortion is an easy choice nor I'm I saying it's morally sound. I'll rather not have abortions if we can avoid it, but accidents happen and some parents just aren't going to be responsible.

 

 

 

Now, animals ARE self-aware, and again, I don't condone the killing of animals needlessly. You need food? Fine. Kill a cow. You need wood? Kill a tree. Having a 100-cell organism that will put a halt on your professional career for 18 years? Abort it.

 

 

 

Somethings are necessary wheither we like it or not. In a perfect world, we wouldn't need to discuss this. But the world isn't perfect and we need to do some terrible things in order to continue. I want abortion to be legal for the protection that if something goes wrong, MY life (that is self-aware and already lived 16 years) will not be devastated by it. We shouldn't congratulate women who have abortions but we shouldn't condemn them neither.

[fastortoise]

Us humans kill pretty much everything if it benefits us. We level forests to build skyscrapers, drain quarries and fill them with garbage, breed and slaughter domesticated animals for food, probe lab mice &c. why stop at killing ourselves?

 

 

 

Doesn't make sense to me... Anti-abortionists are too pro-life and pro-equality. YOU MAKE ME SICK.

[Howlin0001]

 

 

 

We got of work and cried for a day and decided that the best thing for us (and (we hoped) the baby) to do was to get an abortion

 

 

How could the best thing for the baby ever be abortion?

 

The parents working all day and not paying much attention to the conscious baby. The unconscious baby can be aborted to avoid all that.

 

So your saying the baby would rather have not lived than have a crappy childhood? Your assuming quite a lot there.

 

 

 

Come one, you can see that he/they are feeling real bad about it and don't really need people to go and slam them for doing that and they know it was wrong(at least he does).

[deathdrow]

and it really isn't a life yet, it's still a bunch of cells forming,

 

 

 

So, the cells aren't alive?

 

 

 

Changed my opinion on this a bit since last time I came here. I think you should legally have the right to have an abortion, but that's not to say it's morally right at all.

 

Cells are alive, but they're not alive in the sense that they can't think. They're just pre-programmed matter, with specific things to do, that it does. I'm not completely sure on how "alive" a baby is depending on how far into the pregnancy it is, and I'm assuming it would vary, not by much, but still. I understand all humans are are a bunch of cells mixed together, so that pretty much destroys my argument, and I've had trouble posting this, because I personally think it makes me sound like an idiot.

 

But really, it's all got to do with philosophical views in a sense.

 

I'm going to go read up some more on abortion.

 

My views are that people should be able to do whatever the [bleep] they want. Morally I don't think it's right if the baby is at the stage where it can actually think. Which is probably around 7-8 months. Even still, if the people want an abortion they should be allowed to go get them.

[Pirate_Felix]

Under most circumstances, I think abortion is wrong. Whoever is having the abortion most likely made the decision to have sex, so they should live with the consequences of their actions. If you aren't prepared to have children, you shouldn't be having sex.

 

 

 

To say that its the woman's right to be able to choose is contradictory. The baby has no choice in the matter. And if you don't think the baby's life will be worth living, you can't make that decision fo yourself.

 

pro-life uh? Well if you are saying its a potential human being then you say the end product is what counts and you cant pick a point from where it counts and where the human being starts. Your sperm/egg cells are potential human beings! You shouldnt be wasting them by [bleep] but you should make love whenever you can cos you are an potential human being, why are you even wasting your time here?

[kingbrooks]

I disagree with abortion, I don't entirely understand foreign rules (I'm english) but I believe in the USA anyone can have an abortion? Medical conditions or not.

 

 

 

If so I strongly oppose this. I don't think it is right that a living animals, a human infact, should be murdered because a women let herself get knocked up without wanting a pregnancy. I consider life to begin when sperm meets egg (I'm sure there's a word for it which I forgot) and therefore I find it reasonable to consider this murder. (However if the child were to be born with deformities, which I'll get onto later, I consider it Active Euthenasia meaning mercy killing without consent.

 

 

 

Some conditions that I agree to abortion in are:

 

 

 

Rape (I think everyone agrees to that)

 

 

 

Medical conditions concerning the mother or the child. This includes guaranteed Still Births, fairly large deformities,

 

or fatality or long term damage to the mother. I do not agree to one "Medical" reason about concerns to the rest of the family, such as the other children.

 

 

 

I don't think abortion should be allowed to young mothers or parents who "aren't ready". If they are unfit to keep the child then they should probably be given to social services (I actually haven't thought this solution out to be honest) and be given a leaflet on how to use protection.

 

 

 

Please reply to this if you want, I love a debate :D