How Easy Do You Want It?

[Sir_Kurity]

Similar in speed, but alot harder. Because you need to click more as opposed to watch TV while fishing away.

[Troacctid]

 

(And for reference, runecrafting is actually very similar to fishing in speed. Runecrafting to 99 at Ourania takes roughly the same amount of time as fishing to 99 at Shilo Village.)

 

 

 

When I want a challenge, I play FunOrb. Some of my favorites are Escape Vector, Bouncedown, Orb Defence, StarCannon, Dungeon Assault, and Arcanists, although I will openly admit I'm not especially good at all of them.

 

 

 

2400 RC 99's with no-one at the 200m mark, compared with 19,700 says your wrong compared to fishing. We'd see as many RC capes as fishing capes.

 

 

 

Never played Funorb. I'm more of a X3 man myself.

 

If you think speed is the sole determining factor in how many people have 99 in a given skill, then I don't know what to say to you except to compare the number of people with 99 thieving to the number of people with 99 HP and tell me honestly which skill you think is faster to train. ZMI is about the same xp/hr as fly fishing. That's just a fact. :notalk:

[Erewhon2]

When I want a challenge, I play FunOrb. Some of my favorites are Escape Vector, Bouncedown, Orb Defence, StarCannon, Dungeon Assault, and Arcanists,

 

Interesting statement, so you play a different game when you wish for a 'challenge', you find RS too easy and too tedious as it is? Would you like RS to have all the 'tedium' removed and become a faster more intense game all over? In other words, turn it into a different game? :shame:

 

 

 

As I said previously I like having the choice. If you and others find some skills too boring or tedious as they are, why on earth are you aiming for 99s in those skills??? Go play the game in the way that suits you, get 99s in combat skills, or forget 99s.....join a clan and play clan games, castle wars, mobilising armies, godwars, PvP, do quests....whatever!

 

 

 

I cannot believe that some people have been posting on this thread complaining about the tedium of 'clicking' and comparing the times some skills take. So don't do it!!!!! Do something else :wall:

 

 

 

I do not want things made easier, in any way, even including the supposed 'tedium' It is that simple =D>

[quelmotz]

quelmotz wrote:

 

It is disadvantaging them, preventing a better way of training to be implemented, and trying to stop change from "helping" the newer players.

 

 

 

 

 

No, you disadvantage if you make it harder, not easier. And how would you know? You've never grinded anything to 99.

 

 

 

Disadvantage, verb: To put at a disadvantage; hinder or harm.

 

 

 

Looks like you never checked the dictionary before you started spouting nonsense eh?

 

 

 

You don't need to have cancer to know it's bad.

 

 

 

Quote:

 

Oh well, talk is cheap. We'll see that I'm right years from now, since change is inevitable and the complainers' threads and posts will be drowned out by the ever-spinning wheel of change.

 

 

 

 

 

If you want it easy it proves you're not up to any form of challenge. I don't actually think this will matter. Your skills will be exactly the same and you'll probably be in full retirement because the game beat you.

 

 

 

Will you shut the hell up with your ad hominems? This is a debate, not a flame war. If you want to throw personal attacks and all that around, get the hell out of here.

 

 

 

And by the way, I said it was BORING and TEDIOUS, not challenging. It's not exactly THAT difficult to play a computer game, but RuneScape IS far more tedious than most other MMORPGs.

 

 

 

And how many freaking times must I say: I DO NOT WANT IT EASY.

 

 

 

The game will naturally become easier as change goes on. It doesn't matter how much easier, but it will definitely become easier. Nevertheless, it is quite easy to make sure the game doesn't become TOO easy. It will become easier, but by an almost negligible amount.

 

 

 

I don't want it to become too easy, because as I said, the game will fail it's basic purpose as a game if it doesn't prove remotely challenging at all. I'm just saying the game will naturally become easier.

 

 

 

Really, how many times do I have to repeat myself to drill the point into your thick skull?

[Guest]

If you think speed is the sole determining factor in how many people have 99 in a given skill, then I don't know what to say to you except to compare the number of people with 99 thieving to the number of people with 99 HP and tell me honestly which skill you think is faster to train. ZMI is about the same xp/hr as fly fishing. That's just a fact. :notalk:

 

 

 

The number of 99's pretty much says how easy it is to achieve a certain skill. Thief has 10,600. HP is 65,500. This sounds about right when you consider HP is a bi-product of any combat done, and yet still lower than cooking. Fishing is a click and sit job, RC takes a lot more to do it. If it was so simple as a few facts as you suggest many more would have done it by now. It proves its not as simple as you suggest.

[Guest]

 

Disadvantage, verb: To put at a disadvantage; hinder or harm.

 

 

 

Looks like you never checked the dictionary before you started spouting nonsense eh?

 

 

 

You don't need to have cancer to know it's bad.

 

 

 

You HINDER someone if you make it harder. Get it yet? #-o

 

 

 

 

 

 

Will you shut the hell up with your ad hominems? This is a debate, not a flame war. If you want to throw personal attacks and all that around, get the hell out of here.

 

 

 

And by the way, I said it was BORING and TEDIOUS, not challenging. It's not exactly THAT difficult to play a computer game, but RuneScape IS far more tedious than most other MMORPGs.

 

 

 

And how many freaking times must I say: I DO NOT WANT IT EASY.

 

 

 

Im actually proving a point. This is a guy who says he doesn't like tedium as if he's really gone through the mill in the game. Apart from combat you're ranked in firemaking (54) and thats it. You've not even tasted any tedium yet, so how would you know? Its like you spend an hour training something, then 3 hours claiming how bored you are. You've hardly scratched the surface of RS and claim its tedious already.

 

 

 

Tedium itself is a challenge. It seperates the men from the boys as to who sticks it out and who doesn't. Thats why theres a general respect those who can 99 things like runecraft, slayer, mining etc. because they can wade into those skills and stick it out.

 

 

 

If RS is so tedious why do you bother even playing it?

 

 

The game will naturally become easier as change goes on. It doesn't matter how much easier, but it will definitely become easier. Nevertheless, it is quite easy to make sure the game doesn't become TOO easy. It will become easier, but by an almost negligible amount.

 

 

 

I don't want it to become too easy, because as I said, the game will fail it's basic purpose as a game if it doesn't prove remotely challenging at all. I'm just saying the game will naturally become easier.

 

Explain how.

 

 

 

 

Really, how many times do I have to repeat myself to drill the point into your thick skull?

:-s

[Erewhon2]

quelmotz......did you even read my post? Most of the points you raise (other than your aggression) are addressed there! :shame:

[Troacctid]

When I want a challenge, I play FunOrb. Some of my favorites are Escape Vector, Bouncedown, Orb Defence, StarCannon, Dungeon Assault, and Arcanists,

 

Interesting statement, so you play a different game when you wish for a 'challenge', you find RS too easy and too tedious as it is? Would you like RS to have all the 'tedium' removed and become a faster more intense game all over? In other words, turn it into a different game? :shame:

 

No, not really. I'm reasonably happy with the status quo in Runescape, for the most part. I've been keeping a list of suggestions as I think of them, but that's off-topic.

 

[hide=Off-topic]

• 
   
  [*:b5nbiq2p]Let tool leprechauns store plant cures
   
  [*:b5nbiq2p]Automatically use "finisher items" like rock hammers when the monster is at low health
   
  [*:b5nbiq2p]Add a right-click teleport option to planted spirit trees
   
  [*:b5nbiq2p]Move the ? button in the bank to the other side of the interface
   
  [*:b5nbiq2p]Purify warped tortoises and terrorbirds automatically or give corrupted ones a left-click purify option
   
  [*:b5nbiq2p]Let us have multiple lumberjack clothing sets
   
  [*:b5nbiq2p]Let familiars on balloon rides
   
  [*:b5nbiq2p]Explain in more detail how the Ring of Wealth works
   
  [*:b5nbiq2p]Spade spawn at Barrows
   
  [*:b5nbiq2p]Give a lower-level costume for circus performances when the player has the full set already
   
  [*:b5nbiq2p]Loosen the GE trade limit restrictions on newly-released items
   
  [*:b5nbiq2p]Left-click deposit option for the Trouble Brewing hoppers
   
  [*:b5nbiq2p]Flaming weapons and ammo (make firemaking not suck)
   
  [*:b5nbiq2p]When the QA team doesn't test some aspect of an update because of time constraints, say so
   
  [*:b5nbiq2p]Re-release old untradable holiday items to players who have been playing for a certain number of years
   
  [*:b5nbiq2p]Make quest rewards that are more useful than just chunks of experience

[/hide]

 

 

 

As I said previously I like having the choice. If you and others find some skills too boring or tedious as they are, why on earth are you aiming for 99s in those skills??? Go play the game in the way that suits you, get 99s in combat skills, or forget 99s.....join a clan and play clan games, castle wars, mobilising armies, godwars, PvP, do quests....whatever!

 

Well, that's what I do. If I only cared about getting 99 in skills, I would have stopped training those skills by now, wouldn't I? As I said before, it's not about me and the way I play the game, it's about my argument. And my main contention still goes back to that basic tedium =/= difficult and speed =/= easy.

 

 

 

I cannot believe that some people have been posting on this thread complaining about the tedium of 'clicking' and comparing the times some skills take. So don't do it!!!!! Do something else :wall:

 

 

 

I do not want things made easier, in any way, even including the supposed 'tedium' It is that simple =D>

 

And people don't do it. Because it's not very fun. Taking away the tedium is making it more fun. I would argue that making the game more fun is a good thing.

 

 

 

The game will naturally become easier as change goes on. It doesn't matter how much easier, but it will definitely become easier. Nevertheless, it is quite easy to make sure the game doesn't become TOO easy. It will become easier, but by an almost negligible amount.

 

Eh...easier...I would say "skills will naturally become faster to train as change goes on." Easy is too general a term, and not entirely accurate because difficulty will increase in some areas and decrease in others.

 

 

 

 

Disadvantage, verb: To put at a disadvantage; hinder or harm.

 

 

 

Looks like you never checked the dictionary before you started spouting nonsense eh?

 

 

 

You don't need to have cancer to know it's bad.

 

 

 

You HINDER someone if you make it harder. Get it yet? #-o

 

#-o

 

 

 

You're trying to argue that it's being made EASIER, not harder.

 

 

 

 

Will you shut the hell up with your ad hominems? This is a debate, not a flame war. If you want to throw personal attacks and all that around, get the hell out of here.

 

 

 

And by the way, I said it was BORING and TEDIOUS, not challenging. It's not exactly THAT difficult to play a computer game, but RuneScape IS far more tedious than most other MMORPGs.

 

 

 

And how many freaking times must I say: I DO NOT WANT IT EASY.

 

 

 

Im actually proving a point. This is a guy who says he doesn't like tedium as if he's really gone through the mill in the game. Apart from combat you're ranked in firemaking (54) and thats it. You've not even tasted any tedium yet, so how would you know? Its like you spend an hour training something, then 3 hours claiming how bored you are. You've hardly scratched the surface of RS and claim its tedious already.

 

 

 

Tedium itself is a challenge. It seperates the men from the boys as to who sticks it out and who doesn't. Thats why theres a general respect those who can 99 things like runecraft, slayer, mining etc. because they can wade into those skills and stick it out.

 

 

 

If RS is so tedious why do you bother even playing it?

 

What the cabbage are you talking about? You said I had no right to talk because I trained the "easy" skills, and now you say quelmotz has no right to talk because he didn't train the "easy" skills. A player's skill levels have no impact on their ability to debate. We're not debating "What is your favorite skill" here. Get on topic or get out.

 

 

 

 

The game will naturally become easier as change goes on. It doesn't matter how much easier, but it will definitely become easier. Nevertheless, it is quite easy to make sure the game doesn't become TOO easy. It will become easier, but by an almost negligible amount.

 

 

 

I don't want it to become too easy, because as I said, the game will fail it's basic purpose as a game if it doesn't prove remotely challenging at all. I'm just saying the game will naturally become easier.

 

Explain how.

 

You don't think the game is going to become easier? I thought that's what you were trying to debate! You were complaining about how easy things are getting. I'm pretty sure I remember you complaining about how easy things are getting. Now you don't think the game is going to become easier? :|

[Guest]

What the cabbage are you talking about? You said I had no right to talk because I trained the "easy" skills, and now you say quelmotz has no right to talk because he didn't train the "easy" skills. A player's skill levels have no impact on their ability to debate. We're not debating "What is your favorite skill" here. Get on topic or get out.

 

 

 

I didn't say anyone had no right to talk. Its very on topic. The post is 'How easy do you want it'? I have pointed out that I do not want the game to be devalued in terms of achievement so I don't want it to get easier. I love the game so much if Jagex said tomorrow 'its gonna get harder' I'd say fine. Bring it on! :thumbsup:

 

 

 

I'm merely pointing out that you say the game is easy, you say certain skills are more simple (agility for instance) so I disprove it. I prove this by pointing out you have gone for easier skills as I think judging by the number of 99's in certain skills is factual in terms of how hard it is to get that skill. The same amount of players who have 99 Fish would have 99 RC, but this isn't the case. You state it isnt hard its just grind. I say grind in itself is a good way as it makes the game much longer to complete and makes things more of an achievement when you get them. I have also said variety is good, as long as its not at the expense of difficulty. Don't get angry as its not good for the heart.

 

 

 

Quelmotz says he does not want it easy but it will be 'inevitable' that it will. He has never denied his stats are low, but he says many things are boring and tedious, yet he hasn't really gone through anything to make that kind of judgement, particularly as he claims semi-retirement. He's also a little...tense.

 

 

 

I'd suggest instead of both trying to score points on me you add a little to the debate in terms of points. In particular you both say the game is getting easier but neither of you come up with any decent solutions to make the game more of a challenge. I thought this post by Erewhon2 was excellent and am very interested to hear any proposals about the combat system she talks about.

 

I think it is time to clarify some points for me as the originator of this thread.

 

If I wanted constant and intense game stimulation, I would be playing WoW not RS. If I wanted something really easy I would be playing The Little Mermaid.

 

 

 

What I do want is a game that offers choice, where I can unwind after work on what some are calling 'tedious' tasks, but I enjoy them because they relax me and they make some serious gp ;) A game where I can choose to go and do something harder or more challenging like a quest or skill development. My query about "how easy do you want it?" was aimed at those who are constantly complaining that things take too long, that are constantly seeking weapon improvements, shortcuts to 99 status and shortcuts through supposedly boring tasks. Well go play a different game then. I love RS and have played for a long time because it offers the choice.

 

 

 

What I do NOT want to end up with is The Little Mermaid. I have no issue with improvements and updates providing there is good balance. New weapons that hit harder may be fine, if they are balanced with creative new combat abilities....therefore keeping the challenge. I enjoy the variety RS offers and I feel that this is where updates should be focused, rather than removing tedium and making the game easier.

[Erewhon2]

He's also a little...tense.

LOL!!!!!!

 

I thought this post by Erewhon2 was excellent and am very interested to hear any proposals about the combat system she talks about.

Hmmm....where to start? I think there are so many opportunities to use the skill development and the capes to enhance the game and provide interesting and challenging variety to something like combat.

 

 

 

I think 'dodging' could be introduced more specifically, especially when using particular armour and weapons, for example if you wore rogue armour and used a dagger, you would dodge a lot more hits and may be faster with less weight. Those wearing heavy armour and with 2H swords would hit harder, but the duel could be evenly matched. It doesn't have to be 'class' related as in other games. If you wanted to introduce capes, these would enhance the skills they reflect during combat, like strength and heavy armour, thieving or agility and rogue armour etc....Just a few ideas :-k

[Lap]

Don't mean to butt in, but I think what the OP meant was how many shortcuts are we willing to take to achieve something. All you do in runescape is click. Yes you get the same amount of xp fly-fishing as you do ZMI, but you need to have constant attention to runecraft. It's more of, "Who can stand it out the longest?". It's all it is really, you can kick back and watch T.V while you train strength, or you can click every second or two while mining. Each have their own benefits.

 

 

 

The first thing you guys have to do is actually DEFINE easy in terms of this game. Is something easy if it is:

 

A)Fast

 

B)Short

 

C)Both?

 

 

 

Chinning is fast and short, but I can tell you from experience that I was not able to switch tabs once while chinning, but I was switching tabs constantly at Aviansies. To me, easy in this game would mean the amount of concentration you use to actually do something.

 

 

 

Thoughts?

[Troacctid]

Don't mean to butt in, but I think what the OP meant was how many shortcuts are we willing to take to achieve something. All you do in runescape is click. Yes you get the same amount of xp fly-fishing as you do ZMI, but you need to have constant attention to runecraft. It's more of, "Who can stand it out the longest?". It's all it is really, you can kick back and watch T.V while you train strength, or you can click every second or two while mining. Each have their own benefits.

 

 

 

The first thing you guys have to do is actually DEFINE easy in terms of this game. Is something easy if it is:

 

A)Fast

 

B)Short

 

C)Both?

 

 

 

Chinning is fast and short, but I can tell you from experience that I was not able to switch tabs once while chinning, but I was switching tabs constantly at Aviansies. To me, easy in this game would mean the amount of concentration you use to actually do something.

 

 

 

Thoughts?

 

See, that's what I was talking about back in my first post at the end of the first page. I wrote up this whole thing about what makes the game challenging and what doesn't. Don't you guys remember that? I stand by it...

 

[hide=That]What is "easy"? It's not as if any of the skills require any sort of prowess to train to high levels--getting to 99 is solely a matter of grinding.

 

 

 

Difficulty doesn't come from forcing players to make extra clicks or play for extra hours. If you want a game that requires skill, go play FunOrb, and let's see how well you do in Geoblox, Vertigo 2, and Pixelate. Skill in Runescape comes from thinking economically about the most efficient ways to earn money and train each skill--in other words, time management.

 

 

 

Skills are mostly grinding-based, and updates that make skills, as you say, "easier," are primarily aimed at taking the grinding out of grinding. There are actually two main categories of update that have this impact, those being interface improvements like cook-x, and totally new training methods like minigames.

 

 

 

The first type is hardly something you can resent Jagex updating. A good interface is integral to a good game. Remember how you put in a new offer when the Grand Exchange first came out? If you wanted to buy something, you had to click on the box you wanted to use, click the box to say you wanted to buy something rather than sell, and then click the magnifying glass to begin your search. Thanks to an update, all three steps have been condensed into one click. That sort of streamlining is nearly always an improvement.

 

 

 

But what I really want to talk about is the second type of update.

 

 

 

Allow me to use Smoking Kills's slayer update as an example of the second type, arguably the most successful update in this category. Sure, it makes the skill easier, but it does so by providing rewards for completing consecutive slayer tasks in a manner that definitely makes the skill more fun to train, and introduces additional layers of decisions. Should I get a task from Mazchna and finish more quickly to get faster points, or should I go straight for Duradel tasks for better xp and drops? Should I cancel my so-so task for 30 points and miss out on some rewards? Do I go straight for the slayer helm or do I block my least favorite tasks, or do I go for the slayer rings? When I buy my slayer helm, do I want to leave some points left over to cancel tasks, just in case? If I get a steel dragon task and I'm low on points, is it worth Burthorping and losing my streak, or should I slog through it?

 

 

 

As you can see, while on the surface the skill gets faster and easier, it also gets much deeper, giving a thoughtful player a better opportunity to take advantage of the new features than a less-experienced player. The additional incentives also add fun to the skill by creating subgoals and giving payoffs that are independent of the leveling itself, and by allowing players to more easily skip tasks that they personally dislike.

 

 

 

I'll grant that the process of making a skill more fun can easily backfire if the developers don't bother to balance it properly--I think we saw this with Pyramid Plunder's super-fast experience rates, and I agree that aspect of the minigame was definitely overdone. But if you look at more modern examples of new training methods like Stealing Creation or the Runecrafting Guild, you have more balanced xp rates, as well as some added tension of where you want to use your rewards. Or the Distractions and Diversions thing, which is pretty much exactly what it says on the tin--little daily or weekly things that are supplementary at best.

 

 

 

On the whole, the more training methods you have to choose from, the more you need to think about which method you want to choose. As a result, while training gets faster, it's not necessarily getting easier. Quite the opposite, in fact.[/hide]

 

 

 

I'd suggest instead of both trying to score points on me you add a little to the debate in terms of points. In particular you both say the game is getting easier but neither of you come up with any decent solutions to make the game more of a challenge.

 

No. What I'm saying is that skills are getting faster to train. I've been saying this whole time that fast =/= easy. #-o

 

 

 

And why would I be coming up with solutions for something I don't think is a significant problem? Not that it isn't pretty obvious what the solution would be: draw a line, and don't cross it. There's no slippery slope saying once you add 5k xp/hr to a skill, you have to keep adding another 5k xp/hr to it once a month until you can get level 99 in one afternoon. :ugeek:

 

 

 

The same amount of players who have 99 Fish would have 99 RC, but this isn't the case.

You're forgetting that about one in four of these players thinks Postie Pete is a mahjarrat. :roll:

[quelmotz]

jrhairychest wrote:

 

quelmotz wrote:

 

Disadvantage, verb: To put at a disadvantage; hinder or harm.

 

 

 

Looks like you never checked the dictionary before you started spouting nonsense eh?

 

 

 

You don't need to have cancer to know it's bad.

 

 

 

 

 

You HINDER someone if you make it harder. Get it yet? #-o

 

 

 

#-o

 

 

 

You're trying to argue that it's being made EASIER, not harder.

 

 

 

Troacctid said it all.

 

 

 

jrhairychest wrote:

 

He's also a little...tense.

 

LOL!!!!!!

 

 

 

What about you? Resorting to personal attacks and claiming that people have no right to post/don't have anything of value to contribute, when it is a public forum?

 

 

 

Quote:

 

 

 

Will you shut the hell up with your ad hominems? This is a debate, not a flame war. If you want to throw personal attacks and all that around, get the hell out of here.

 

 

 

And by the way, I said it was BORING and TEDIOUS, not challenging. It's not exactly THAT difficult to play a computer game, but RuneScape IS far more tedious than most other MMORPGs.

 

 

 

And how many freaking times must I say: I DO NOT WANT IT EASY.

 

 

 

 

 

Im actually proving a point. This is a guy who says he doesn't like tedium as if he's really gone through the mill in the game. Apart from combat you're ranked in firemaking (54) and thats it. You've not even tasted any tedium yet, so how would you know? Its like you spend an hour training something, then 3 hours claiming how bored you are. You've hardly scratched the surface of RS and claim its tedious already.

 

 

 

Tedium itself is a challenge. It seperates the men from the boys as to who sticks it out and who doesn't. Thats why theres a general respect those who can 99 things like runecraft, slayer, mining etc. because they can wade into those skills and stick it out.

 

 

 

If RS is so tedious why do you bother even playing it?

 

 

 

Tedium? Isn't training mining to level 50 or so tedium? Isn't training combat to 80 or so tedium? What you're saying is different degrees of tedium. It's already tedious enough. I don't need to experience a higher level of tedium to conclude that it is tedious.

 

 

 

Playing an online game is really such a challenge. =D> Sure, it requires dedication to reach level 99, but HOW HARD can an online game be? You're just playing it for leisure and to relax. Now you're effectively praising the no-lifers and people who play on the computer hours. You're admiring, looking up to the computer game addicts. I could easily get level 99 by no-lifing 10 hours a day, but I don't want to.

 

 

 

I don't play RS so much because I have other things to do, and FunOrb is just so much better. I do play it - because the game isn't 100% made of tedious training - you can also relax by playing minigames, etc.

 

 

 

quelmotz......did you even read my post? Most of the points you raise (other than your aggression) are addressed there! :shame:

 

 

 

No I didn't. It just shows how you and jrhairychest's so-called great minds think alike.

 

 

 

Quote:

 

The game will naturally become easier as change goes on. It doesn't matter how much easier, but it will definitely become easier. Nevertheless, it is quite easy to make sure the game doesn't become TOO easy. It will become easier, but by an almost negligible amount.

 

 

 

I don't want it to become too easy, because as I said, the game will fail it's basic purpose as a game if it doesn't prove remotely challenging at all. I'm just saying the game will naturally become easier.

 

 

 

Explain how.

 

 

 

Are you really that freaking dumb?

 

 

 

A new skill provides easier ways of getting money, some other conveniences.

 

A new quest give rewards.

 

A new monster gives rewards.

 

A new minigame also gives rewards, other than some minor exceptions like Castle Wars.

 

A new item makes the game easier by making it easier to train, make something, etc etc.

 

 

 

Really, I can't believe you don't have enough common sense to understand what I'm saying.

 

 

 

You don't think the game is going to become easier? I thought that's what you were trying to debate! You were complaining about how easy things are getting. I'm pretty sure I remember you complaining about how easy things are getting. Now you don't think the game is going to become easier? :|

 

 

 

+1

 

 

 

quelmotz wrote:

 

The game will naturally become easier as change goes on. It doesn't matter how much easier, but it will definitely become easier. Nevertheless, it is quite easy to make sure the game doesn't become TOO easy. It will become easier, but by an almost negligible amount.

 

 

 

Eh...easier...I would say "skills will naturally become faster to train as change goes on." Easy is too general a term, and not entirely accurate because difficulty will increase in some areas and decrease in others.

 

 

 

True. But in the end, the game becomes easier no matter in what aspect. It WILL become easier, whether in training speed, rate of money gaining, etc etc.

[ghost4sale1]

How easy do I want it? I don't want it easy at all. The more challenging it is, the more rewarding it is, and it means much more to have that cape.

 

 

 

This might sound weird, but the harder it is, the easier it makes the game...because the greater/better the rewards, the easier the game becomes. So you're essentially contradicting yourself.

 

 

 

Errr....No! I believe he's saying that if he decides he wants a cape he wants the challenge of getting it. A more challenging cape means this will increase his enjoyment factor of getting it later and showing it off because..well...he can.

 

 

 

That's true I guess. But I was speaking more of the "physical" gains that he could get from it, since enjoyment is a relative term, and he might enjoy getting XXX but I don't enjoy getting the same XXX.

 

 

 

thanks :D

[Erewhon2]

Quelmotz....you can hardly deny you are a little tense, and yes it was funny. You accuse me of making personal comments, all I have done is given you a well deserved but gentle slap on the wrist when you have indiscriminately thrown your toys on the floor. Lets see now, here is a list of just some of your comments in this thread alone and they are even worse in other threads! :shame:

 

My opinion is what I said above. Can't you read?

 

Too bad, so what if I don't give an opinion? What are you going to do? Kill me?

 

Seriously, shut up with your sense of "superiority" just because you have high levels in some stupid skills. You've said it yourself - anyone can debate, so shut up.

 

Ok, you win your stupid argument. Go and gloat about it.

 

Or are you such a sore loser that you have to have the "easier" topic so you can "win" the debate more easily?

 

If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

 

I'll just say it here - you're too stubborn.

 

Just because you got your 99s or whatever stats the "old" way

 

I'm saying just because you got your crappy stats the "old" and "harder" way

 

Looks like you never checked the dictionary before you started spouting nonsense eh? You don't need to have cancer to know it's bad.

 

Will you shut the hell up with your ad hominems?

 

And how many freaking times must I say: I DO NOT WANT IT EASY.

 

Really, how many times do I have to repeat myself to drill the point into your thick skull?

 

Now you're effectively praising the no-lifers and people who play on the computer hours.

 

Are you really that freaking dumb?

 

I can't believe you don't have enough common sense to understand what I'm saying.

 

 

So give over with the "you're getting personal" I hardly think you are in a position to make a stand on that point do you? :shock:

 

As for the topic of this thread, I really think you would benefit from actually reading the posts properly rather than just the ones you like. :thumbdown:

 

For example you say this:

 

A new skill provides easier ways of getting money, some other conveniences.

 

A new quest give rewards.

 

A new monster gives rewards.

 

A new minigame also gives rewards, other than some minor exceptions like Castle Wars.

 

A new item makes the game easier by making it easier to train, make something, etc etc.

 

True. But in the end, the game becomes easier no matter in what aspect. It WILL become easier, whether in training speed, rate of money gaining, etc etc.

 

I put this as my post on page 5:

 

What I do NOT want to end up with is The Little Mermaid. I have no issue with improvements and updates providing there is good balance. New weapons that hit harder may be fine, if they are balanced with creative new combat abilities....therefore keeping the challenge. I enjoy the variety RS offers and I feel that this is where updates should be focused, rather than removing tedium and making the game easier.

 

Please note I am asking for balance, I don't want the tedium removed, but if they do update things like this they need to also put in challenges to provide balance.

 

 

 

Now, try reading my posts, I am happy to explain them to you, but you need to ask (and nicely) if you wish for me to explain in more detail or in a less complex way. :notalk:

[Guest]

 

quelmotz wrote:

 

Disadvantage, verb: To put at a disadvantage; hinder or harm.

 

 

 

Looks like you never checked the dictionary before you started spouting nonsense eh?

 

 

 

You don't need to have cancer to know it's bad.

 

 

 

 

You HINDER someone if you make it harder. Get it yet? #-o

 

 

 

#-o

 

 

 

You're trying to argue that it's being made EASIER, not harder.

 

 

 

Troacctid said it all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lmao sorry fellas I just got the context you were using. Well I suppose you are disadvantaging players if they want it easier and you're not giving it them easier. :thumbup:

 

 

 

 

What about you? Resorting to personal attacks and claiming that people have no right to post/don't have anything of value to contribute, when it is a public forum?

 

I think Erewhon2, who doesn't seem to suffer fools gladly, would have torn into me by now if I didn't have anything to contribute. If showing people up for going for easy stuff or complaining that the game isn't grind, then I'm quite happy to do that.

 

 

 

If I really wanted to personally attack you Quelmotz I would. So please don't flatter yourself.

 

 

 

 

Tedium? Isn't training mining to level 50 or so tedium? Isn't training combat to 80 or so tedium? What you're saying is different degrees of tedium. It's already tedious enough. I don't need to experience a higher level of tedium to conclude that it is tedious.

 

Actually no because I enjoy earning the levels. You've just proved that the game is really not for you.

 

 

 

 

Playing an online game is really such a challenge. =D> Sure, it requires dedication to reach level 99, but HOW HARD can an online game be? You're just playing it for leisure and to relax. Now you're effectively praising the no-lifers and people who play on the computer hours. You're admiring, looking up to the computer game addicts. I could easily get level 99 by no-lifing 10 hours a day, but I don't want to.

 

Sure I play for pleasure as its loads of fun and I enjoy the achievements, working my way through the levels no matter how tedious. I don't think its fair to call those players no lifers, they just stick to the tasks they do. Sure, there are some who will sit there and play 10 hours a day but its their choice. I'm personally happy to go to work, enjoy my personal life and still play RS.

 

 

 

 

I don't play RS so much because I have other things to do, and FunOrb is just so much better. I do play it - because the game isn't 100% made of tedious training - you can also relax by playing minigames, etc.

 

So why post on an RS website? Its quite obvious you have no real interest in the game.

 

 

 

No I didn't. It just shows how you and jrhairychest's so-called great minds think alike.

 

 

Erewhon2 is very good at this. Yes it seems we do think alike, but I'm not relishing the day I cross swords with her (inevitable :anxious:). Most intelligent debater I've seen on the forums for a while. Sadly, Im nowhere near her class.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Are you really that freaking dumb? :-s

 

 

 

A new skill provides easier ways of getting money, some other conveniences. Good

 

A new quest give rewards. Good

 

A new monster gives rewards. Good, reward dependent

 

A new minigame also gives rewards, other than some minor exceptions like Castle Wars. Good

 

A new item makes the game easier by making it easier to train, make something, etc etc. Not good.

 

 

 

Really, I can't believe you don't have enough common sense to understand what I'm saying.

 

I'm no mindreader. I can't believe you don't have the common sense to explain your points.

 

 

 

You don't think the game is going to become easier? I thought that's what you were trying to debate! You were complaining about how easy things are getting. I'm pretty sure I remember you complaining about how easy things are getting. Now you don't think the game is going to become easier? :|

 

 

 

I don't believe I said anything of the sort. I said I don't WANT the game to get easy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

True. But in the end, the game becomes easier no matter in what aspect. It WILL become easier, whether in training speed, rate of money gaining, etc etc.

 

 

 

Explain.

[Guest]

I think 'dodging' could be introduced more specifically, especially when using particular armour and weapons, for example if you wore rogue armour and used a dagger, you would dodge a lot more hits and may be faster with less weight. Those wearing heavy armour and with 2H swords would hit harder, but the duel could be evenly matched. It doesn't have to be 'class' related as in other games. If you wanted to introduce capes, these would enhance the skills they reflect during combat, like strength and heavy armour, thieving or agility and rogue armour etc....Just a few ideas

 

You do realise what youre suggesting is INSANE? I mean look at what youre suggesting here:

 

You would force players to THINK more about combat tactics

 

Players would have to THINK more about their armour/weapon choices

 

Players would have to THINK more about their skills

 

Players would get owned because someone may have out-thought them.

 

Players would hit the RS forums with 'ZOMG combat sucks! I just got owned even though I had me Bandos n GS. I should have owned that noob!

 

 

 

You actually suggesting making combat more of a challenge? How dare you post something like this. We dont want a challenge!!!!

 

 

 

On a serious note its a very good idea. Might even make players realise theres more to combat than Bandos and Godswords. So, if Im getting this right, if you have higher strength youd move faster, wielding heavy armour like bandos but not as fast as someone in lighter armour who has the same combat stats, wielding the same weapon? Just so Im getting the picture.

[Erewhon2]

On a serious note its a very good idea. Might even make players realise theres more to combat than Bandos and Godswords. So, if Im getting this right, if you have higher strength youd move faster, wielding heavy armour like bandos but not as fast as someone in lighter armour who has the same combat stats, wielding the same weapon? Just so Im getting the picture.

 

At last!!! An intelligent man \ Someone who understands what I meant in my postings! :D

 

 

 

With regard to the combat potential, imagine if you were someone who chose to wear the agility outfit (only obtained from the high level courses) for combat, wear this with the boots of lightness and the spottier cape. How fast would you move in combat? Armour stats themself could be linked directly to the stats of the wearer....this is already achieved to a certain degree by the levels required to wear or wield. For example the weapon may be more effective than the armour if someone has high attack levels but are low in other cb stats.

 

 

 

Updates clearly do not have to make things easier, or at the least, they could balance things. It doesn't just have to be combat either, for example; there could be a new herb, it may provide a good enhancement but can only be planted in a farming patch where you have completed the local achievement diary. :-k

[quelmotz]

Quelmotz....you can hardly deny you are a little tense, and yes it was funny. You accuse me of making personal comments, all I have done is given you a well deserved but gentle slap on the wrist when you have indiscriminately thrown your toys on the floor. Lets see now, here is a list of just some of your comments in this thread alone and they are even worse in other threads! :shame:

 

Quote:

 

My opinion is what I said above. Can't you read?

 

Too bad, so what if I don't give an opinion? What are you going to do? Kill me?

 

Seriously, shut up with your sense of "superiority" just because you have high levels in some stupid skills. You've said it yourself - anyone can debate, so shut up.

 

Ok, you win your stupid argument. Go and gloat about it.

 

Or are you such a sore loser that you have to have the "easier" topic so you can "win" the debate more easily?

 

If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

 

I'll just say it here - you're too stubborn.

 

Just because you got your 99s or whatever stats the "old" way

 

I'm saying just because you got your crappy stats the "old" and "harder" way

 

Looks like you never checked the dictionary before you started spouting nonsense eh? You don't need to have cancer to know it's bad.

 

Will you shut the hell up with your ad hominems?

 

And how many freaking times must I say: I DO NOT WANT IT EASY.

 

Really, how many times do I have to repeat myself to drill the point into your thick skull?

 

Now you're effectively praising the no-lifers and people who play on the computer hours.

 

Are you really that freaking dumb?

 

I can't believe you don't have enough common sense to understand what I'm saying.

 

 

 

So give over with the "you're getting personal" I hardly think you are in a position to make a stand on that point do you? :shock:

 

 

 

Look - all I did was throw back what you first started.

 

 

 

I just started posting, and it seems like just because I disagree, you start making a lot of comments that are NOT related to the topic but rather to myself and my account, like "you don't have anything of value to contribute because you're a low level noob in XXX skill" and things like that.

 

 

 

Please, look in the mirror first before you start posting about other people. Your list of ad hominems would be as long as mine.

 

 

 

quelmotz wrote:

 

A new skill provides easier ways of getting money, some other conveniences.

 

A new quest give rewards.

 

A new monster gives rewards.

 

A new minigame also gives rewards, other than some minor exceptions like Castle Wars.

 

A new item makes the game easier by making it easier to train, make something, etc etc.

 

True. But in the end, the game becomes easier no matter in what aspect. It WILL become easier, whether in training speed, rate of money gaining, etc etc.

 

 

 

I put this as my post on page 5:

 

erewhon2 wrote:

 

What I do NOT want to end up with is The Little Mermaid. I have no issue with improvements and updates providing there is good balance. New weapons that hit harder may be fine, if they are balanced with creative new combat abilities....therefore keeping the challenge. I enjoy the variety RS offers and I feel that this is where updates should be focused, rather than removing tedium and making the game easier.

 

 

 

Please note I am asking for balance, I don't want the tedium removed, but if they do update things like this they need to also put in challenges to provide balance.

 

 

 

The point is - they DO put in updates to balance things out. A new monster/quest would be challenging to give good rewards. A new skill would require training to reap the best benefits. The same goes for a new minigame. A new item that has numerous useful applications would need to be obtained through a difficult quest/something like that.

 

 

 

But as I said before, the game did become easier, though it might be more or less cancelled out. E.g. if an update makes the game easier by 3 units, the challenge in getting access/whatever to the update will make it harder by 3 units. But still, the game has already been made easier, though mathematicians would argue that the positive cancels out the negative, but this isn't maths, it's a game.

 

 

 

---------

 

 

 

Before you flame me for not replying to the entire of your post, I'm tired of replying to personal attacks and stuff unrelated to the topic. Though you seem to be more than willing to continue throwing unrelated comments around, I regret to pour cold water on your pleasure, as these pointless insults don't lead anywhere. Go ahead and waste your own time if you want, but you'll soon find that you can't talk to a person's back.

 

 

 

Quote:

 

 

 

Are you really that freaking dumb? :-s

 

 

 

A new skill provides easier ways of getting money, some other conveniences. Good

 

A new quest give rewards. Good

 

A new monster gives rewards. Good, reward dependent

 

A new minigame also gives rewards, other than some minor exceptions like Castle Wars. Good

 

A new item makes the game easier by making it easier to train, make something, etc etc. Not good.

 

 

 

Really, I can't believe you don't have enough common sense to understand what I'm saying.

 

 

 

I'm no mindreader. I can't believe you don't have the common sense to explain your points.

 

 

 

Look above ^^^^

 

 

 

Quote:

 

I don't play RS so much because I have other things to do, and FunOrb is just so much better. I do play it - because the game isn't 100% made of tedious training - you can also relax by playing minigames, etc.

 

 

 

So why post on an RS website? Its quite obvious you have no real interest in the game.

 

 

 

I've already explained to you once, but it looks like you have a goldfish's memory.

 

 

 

I don't play the game too much now. At my level I've already completed all the F2P quests other than the annoying shield of arrav, and I have no motivation to go further than my stats now. Just go and try F2P and you'll understand my boredom.

 

 

 

But whether you like it or not, I enjoy debating and ranting on the forums. No, I don't care what you think. Can't someone post on the forums after not playing the game for a while? It's just my hobby or whatever you may call it.

 

 

 

Quote:

 

 

 

True. But in the end, the game becomes easier no matter in what aspect. It WILL become easier, whether in training speed, rate of money gaining, etc etc.

 

 

 

 

 

Explain.

 

 

 

Look above ^^^.

[Erewhon2]

I just started posting, and it seems like just because I disagree, you start making a lot of comments that are NOT related to the topic but rather to myself and my account, like "you don't have anything of value to contribute because you're a low level noob in XXX skill" and things like that.

 

Considering I said nothing of the sort...that is a rather sweeping statement! =;

 

What I did do was comment on your mining stats when you used that an example of your experience, nothing detrimental was intended, but you certainly seem overly sensitive about your levels. My reason for commenting at all, was the same as if I asked a weight lifter if hefting 60 kilo's was getting any easier, when all he had ever lifted was 20 kilo's. No way could he give me an informed answer, he would only be able to tell me his limited experience. Low stats are nothing to be embarrassed over or sensitive about, we've all had them! #-o

 

The point is - they DO put in updates to balance things out.

 

Where? Tell me what they have put in so far to balance out new weapons, pyramid plunder...etc, etc.

 

A new monster/quest would be challenging to give good rewards. A new skill would require training to reap the best benefits. The same goes for a new minigame. A new item that has numerous useful applications would need to be obtained through a difficult quest/something like that.

 

These are reasonable ideas, but don't vary the everyday experience of the game, this is where I would like to see some stronger challenges to balance those updates that make the game easier and less of the unnecessary updates that remove supposed 'tedium'.

 

Before you flame me for not replying to the entire of your post, I'm tired of replying to personal attacks and stuff unrelated to the topic. Though you seem to be more than willing to continue throwing unrelated comments around, I regret to pour cold water on your pleasure, as these pointless insults don't lead anywhere. Go ahead and waste your own time if you want, but you'll soon find that you can't talk to a person's back.

 

No idea what you're going on about :-s

[Tim]

How Easy indeed. Give me 99 Defence now and I'll be happy that my 7 years playing haven't been a total waste on one 99 skill.

[ghost4sale1]

How Easy indeed. Give me 99 Defence now and I'll be happy that my 7 years playing haven't been a total waste on one 99 skill.

 

:D gl getting 99 in something

[quelmotz]

quelmotz wrote:

 

I just started posting, and it seems like just because I disagree, you start making a lot of comments that are NOT related to the topic but rather to myself and my account, like "you don't have anything of value to contribute because you're a low level noob in XXX skill" and things like that.

 

 

 

Considering I said nothing of the sort...that is a rather sweeping statement! =;

 

What I did do was comment on your mining stats when you used that an example of your experience, nothing detrimental was intended, but you certainly seem overly sensitive about your levels. My reason for commenting at all, was the same as if I asked a weight lifter if hefting 60 kilo's was getting any easier, when all he had ever lifted was 20 kilo's. No way could he give me an informed answer, he would only be able to tell me his limited experience. Low stats are nothing to be embarrassed over or sensitive about, we've all had them! #-o

 

 

 

Fine, but you did make it sound like it was an insult.

 

 

 

quelmotz wrote:

 

The point is - they DO put in updates to balance things out.

 

 

 

Where? Tell me what they have put in so far to balance out new weapons, pyramid plunder...etc, etc.

 

 

 

True. But most of the updates ARE balanced out. I don't know about things like pyramid plunder and stuff like that because as you said, I haven't tried them out.

 

 

 

But most updates like new monsters, new quests, etc etc are balanced out by a difficult challenge.

 

 

 

quelmotz wrote:

 

A new monster/quest would be challenging to give good rewards. A new skill would require training to reap the best benefits. The same goes for a new minigame. A new item that has numerous useful applications would need to be obtained through a difficult quest/something like that.

 

 

 

These are reasonable ideas, but don't vary the everyday experience of the game, this is where I would like to see some stronger challenges to balance those updates that make the game easier and less of the unnecessary updates that remove supposed 'tedium'.

 

 

 

Agreed on the first point. But like it or not, RS quests are some of the best in MMORPGs. Quests in other MMORPGs are usually kill X of Y, get X of Y, or some mix of both. Though improvements could be made on weapons and monsters - make them more unique, instead of higher bonuses and more damage... :roll:

 

 

 

I don't agree on the second point, at least up to a certain extent. Citing rest as an example. Rest DID NOT make the game less challenging - as in - requiring less skill. What it did was make the game more CONVENIENT and SMOOTH, so the players would not have to waste time on unnecessary crap like walking around for 5 minutes.

 

 

 

quelmotz wrote:

 

Before you flame me for not replying to the entire of your post, I'm tired of replying to personal attacks and stuff unrelated to the topic. Though you seem to be more than willing to continue throwing unrelated comments around, I regret to pour cold water on your pleasure, as these pointless insults don't lead anywhere. Go ahead and waste your own time if you want, but you'll soon find that you can't talk to a person's back.

 

 

 

No idea what you're going on about :-s

 

 

 

Erm...I was kind of replying to jrhairychest.

[Guest]

Told you she was good :thumbsup:. Far as I'm concerned call me what you want if it makes you feel better. Personally, I couldn't give a toss what you think of me. It just illustrates you're very defensive if someone points things out to you, especially if you're talking about things you clearly know nothing about.

[quelmotz]

Told you she was good :thumbsup:. Far as I'm concerned call me what you want if it makes you feel better. Personally, I couldn't give a toss what you think of me. It just illustrates you're very defensive if someone points things out to you, especially if you're talking about things you clearly know nothing about.

 

 

 

Wow, look at the hypocrisy.

 

 

 

You were the one starting the personal attacks. You wrote one whole post filled with quite a number of personal attacks.

 

 

 

Go ahead and insult me if you want.