Items Kept on Death

[svs]

The main thing is, yes i know it sounds cliche but you should never take items with you that you are not willing to risk.

 

Thats just how the game is

[Zepheras]

And quite frankly i am tired of people like you who keep saying "You should know there's a risk", "Plan your equipment better", "Gravestones make it easy as it is", and other stuff that has nothing to do with the flaw.

 

They probably have similar feelings towards your opinion. You should never equate your own opinion as special or valuable. Probability states that it is unlikely that it is. This is a general comment. It can be applied to everybody.

 

You must realize that there must be many people around who get tired of people who keep stating the opinion that the system is flawed

 

 

Myself and friends have lost items in a unfair way through this flaw, and if you accept this flaw as a right/good thing then i suggest one thing MAKE the whole game like this.

 

You are your friends didn't encounter an unfair way or a flaw. The system is the same for everybody and is therefore per definition not unfair. The system is also designed as it is, so that eliminates the existence of some flaw.

 

The whole game is like this really. Did you ever get a dragon shield half drop? I didn't. Highly unfair wouldn't you say? A visage drop? I haven't had one with 99 slayer. Also unfair?

 

No, not really. The drops are based on a system that is the same for everybody. It is just that the outcome is semi-random. It is designed like that. It is also not a flaw. The whole of runescape is made in the way you find unfair.

 

The real problem here is that I think you confuse your opinion with fact.

 

The system isn't flawed and it isn't unfair.

 

The system feels flawed to you. It feels unfair to you.

 

But both statements aren't the same. And your opinion falls in the category of 'feeling' and not 'being' unfair.

 

The system is flawed in the sense that it keeps item based on high-alchemy wealth, which is not a true representation of how valuable the items are to the player. A system that applies to everyone will be fair, but that doesn't mean that it's not flawed. Does the Defence stats apply similarly to all players? Yes. Does that mean that the Defence system isn't flawed? No, otherwise how did players take advantage of it and create unbalanced pure characters?

 

The fact that the same barrow item piece gets removed from the game every time you die means that out of the four pieces, there's always a specific one that has a lesser quantity to circulate in the market. Look at sets with good effects like guthan and verac. Guthans warpsears and veracs helms are always lost during death, keeping the price of these item high up. Had the system base it on your choice of items, or GE price, the price of the 4 items would have been more even, meaning that you don't have 'lousy' barrows trips when you keep getting the other 3 items that are always low in price.

 

Of course, the upside to this is that those same old items are always high in demand, making boss trips and slayer more profitable. This is the only reason for the system to exist, since Jagex has the intention of making sure you lose certain slayer/boss item when you die. They assigned low alchemy price to items that has to be kept in demand to prevent boss hunting and slayer monsters from becoming obsolete, rather than those risk VS reward argument, which doesn't even apply to metals from bronze to dragon equipment.

[Emmentail]

Don't die? That solves all your problems. Honestly if you die in this game you fail.

[Zepheras]

Don't die? That solves all your problems. Honestly if you die in this game you fail.

 

So...how many times have you failed?

[JoeDaStudd]

Don't die? That solves all your problems. Honestly if you die in this game you fail.

I take it you've never boss hunted properly then.

 

I don't know anyone who really boss hunts who doesn't have a tab or section of the bank set up to allow them to quickly get back if they die.

 

I boss hunt a lot and I've not died in action, so to speak, for about 2 months this doesn't mean it never happens. Nor does it mean if I died it was my fault.

I almost got KO'd at DK's due to a bad move by the hybrid; he saw rex going near him paniced, so instead of waiting ran too me with prime on him, at the time I was casting so couldn't turn protect mage on fast enough. A bad tank can easily kill a player at zammy gwd or bandos gwd. A bit of lag can kill a player at pretty much any boss.

[Emmentail]

Don't die? That solves all your problems. Honestly if you die in this game you fail.

 

So...how many times have you failed?

 

Once. I got killed by a Wizard when I was level 3. And that was over 7 years ago..

[JoeDaStudd]

Don't die? That solves all your problems. Honestly if you die in this game you fail.

 

So...how many times have you failed?

 

Once. I got killed by a Wizard when I was level 3. And that was over 7 years ago..

When did you last boss hunt and which boss?

[Danqazmlp]

I personally think its all part of the learning experience. If you don't die and lose something expensive, you don't learn. It does not take much time to open up the menu to see what you will lose. It all ties into risk/reward.

[Dire_Wolf]

I personally think its all part of the learning experience. If you don't die and lose something expensive, you don't learn. It does not take much time to open up the menu to see what you will lose. It all ties into risk/reward.

You mean that you should click menu (Menu=Items kept on death?), and see what you loose to fix a equipment right?

You are your friends didn't encounter an unfair way or a flaw. The system is the same for everybody and is therefore per definition not unfair. The system is also designed as it is, so that eliminates the existence of some flaw.

 

The whole game is like this really. Did you ever get a dragon shield half drop? I didn't. Highly unfair wouldn't you say? A visage drop? I haven't had one with 99 slayer. Also unfair?

 

The real problem here is that I think you confuse your opinion with fact.

 

The system isn't flawed and it isn't unfair.

 

The system feels flawed to you. It feels unfair to you.

 

But both statements aren't the same. And your opinion falls in the category of 'feeling' and not 'being' unfair.

I speak for everyone who have had major loss because of this which i call a flaw. Why do i say that it should be considered a flaw?

 

Because many players work hard (Believe it or not) for their GP, and that achievement being taken away so easily because is wrong.

 

1) They loose alot items from other items (over 600K+ lost, i loose over 1M usually. That's me).

 

2) They loose also a extremely valued item because a cheap valued or worthless item has higher alchemy price.

 

I find it unfair for everyone who have had this.

 

Getting a item as drop is not unfair however. Everyone has the chance to get the drop...

 

Same thing for this so called flaw, everyone has chance of getting it. It's rare, but when it happens it takes away a big chunk of value from a players hardworked GP. And you can't avoid it!

 

Getting a drop - is not unfair because YOU can do something about it.

Losing valued items (High priced/or time taking) because a cheap or worthless item with high alch price protects over is unfair. Because you can't avoid it if you die and you have this kind of situation.

 

Also the fact and opinion thing, i am sorry about that. I just am so fired up and wish more people helped.

 

It's really not fair from my view. My friend planned his equipment. Also second time he lost so much money at Bandos. So he does not need this kind of treatment again. He can't just stop avoiding boss hunting or risks...

 

Game is to be played in a fair way. Noone should keep majority or all of their items on death, or even get the option to choose items on death. But the system should not let a high priced item or time taking item be lost over a low priced item.

[Zaaps1]

SirHemen, I see your point and it is a good one. But can you be more clear as to exactly what you propose the solution to be?

[Dire_Wolf]

SirHemen, I see your point and it is a good one. But can you be more clear as to exactly what you propose the solution to be?

Do i have to have a solution? :huh: I have no idea to be honest, only Jagex knows what is possible and what is not. I just wanted to cast some light on this issue.

 

Will_holmes suggested FAUX alchemy price for certain items

[Emmentail]

 

When did you last boss hunt and which boss?

 

DK's, sometime before RuneTek5 came in. I admit I rarely go boss hunting as I don't enjoy it that much, however when I do there will always be someone to bless my grave in the 0% chance that I die. Always keep your HP up, pay attention to what you're doing, and have a good internet connection. Obviously if you had a powercut then there's not much you can do.

 

Most people that i've seen die in GWD think "oh they'll never hit that high on me", and then get splatted by a few hits in a row and collapse. Almost funny. Oh and if you're really messing up, use a house teletab. You can always start a trip again.

 

Tbh with gravestones Jagex pretty much elimated any real risk in the normal monster killing game. What's the point in dangerous monsters if you can just run back within 5 minutes and pick up all your gear again.

[Dire_Wolf]

 

When did you last boss hunt and which boss?

 

DK's, sometime before RuneTek5 came in. I admit I rarely go boss hunting as I don't enjoy it that much, however when I do there will always be someone to bless my grave in the 0% chance that I die. Always keep your HP up, pay attention to what you're doing, and have a good internet connection. Obviously if you had a powercut then there's not much you can do.

 

Most people that i've seen die in GWD think "oh they'll never hit that high on me", and then get splatted by a few hits in a row and collapse. Almost funny. Oh and if you're really messing up, use a house teletab. You can always start a trip again.

 

Tbh with gravestones Jagex pretty much elimated any real risk in the normal monster killing game. What's the point in dangerous monsters if you can just run back within 5 minutes and pick up all your gear again.

My friend did not bother to go back and get his items back though he had 5 minutes. Why not? Because he wouldn't get it back.

 

1) Time won't allow it (and if you don't have a back up GWD equipment in case of death your pretty much done for timewise)

 

2) When you manage to get back to your grave, how will you survive? Zamorak boss will really wreck anyone apart if they are after getting their items back from grave (If your alone) and getting items back at Zamorak is a huge risk itself.

 

Saradomin boss will also be as deadly as Zamorak, Bandos less and Armadyl takes far to much time for KC.

 

Also GWD bosses>Higher risk but also higher reward. So i do not see how Jagex elimnated real risk.

 

KBD, KQ and so on drops very lame items. Even if you die and run back to those type of bosses i am positive you will have trouble. Less than GWD bosses, but still trouble

[Zaaps1]

SirHemen, I see your point and it is a good one. But can you be more clear as to exactly what you propose the solution to be?

Do i have to have a solution? :huh: I have no idea to be honest, only Jagex knows what is possible and what is not. I just wanted to cast some light on this issue.

 

Will_holmes suggested FAUX alchemy price for certain items

 

FAUX?

[RangingRoy]

Erm... surely the solution to this problem is to have it based on the GE price and not the alch price?

 

That's fairly easy, in my opinion.

 

I think it's definitely time to do it. The alchemy system is dated. The only reason it exist is because previously, it was the only value for an item in game that could be programmed.

[Dire_Wolf]

SirHemen, I see your point and it is a good one. But can you be more clear as to exactly what you propose the solution to be?

Do i have to have a solution? :huh: I have no idea to be honest, only Jagex knows what is possible and what is not. I just wanted to cast some light on this issue.

 

Will_holmes suggested FAUX alchemy price for certain items

 

FAUX?

Like take Armadyl plate as example?

 

It's alch price is lower than Rune platebody. Let's say you add a "Fake" alch price to it, so that it protects over Rune platebody..

 

Armadyl platebody alch price: 36K

Rune platebody alch price: 39K

 

I don't know, make Armadyl's platebodies higher alch price or give it a fake alch price only for DEATH system.

 

Erm... surely the solution to this problem is to have it based on the GE price and not the alch price?

 

That's fairly easy, in my opinion.

 

I think it's definitely time to do it. The alchemy system is dated. The only reason it exist is because previously, it was the only value for an item in game that could be programmed.

G.E won't work. It will be unbalanced because prices keep changing...and the current system is good. We just need it tweaked so that people don't loose items unfairly.

[Emmentail]

Jagex have said they will not change the items kept on death value to the GE because they continually change. It makes problems when working out "risked wealth" in PvP for their system.

[testingsomestuff123]

I have to agree on Arma items alch prices going up. They alch for like 16-17k. :|

[Dire_Wolf]

I have to agree on Arma items alch prices going up. They alch for like 16-17k. :|

Not just Armadyl, but many items need balance in which protects over which.

[Zaaps1]

SirHemen, I see your point and it is a good one. But can you be more clear as to exactly what you propose the solution to be?

Do i have to have a solution? :huh: I have no idea to be honest, only Jagex knows what is possible and what is not. I just wanted to cast some light on this issue.

 

Will_holmes suggested FAUX alchemy price for certain items

 

FAUX?

Like take Armadyl plate as example?

 

It's alch price is lower than Rune platebody. Let's say you add a "Fake" alch price to it, so that it protects over Rune platebody..

 

Armadyl platebody alch price: 36K

Rune platebody alch price: 39K

 

I don't know, make Armadyl's platebodies higher alch price or give it a fake alch price only for DEATH system.

 

 

Sounds good, but a different value for each item for every player? Sounds like major bugs just waiting to happen.

[Dire_Wolf]

Sounds good, but a different value for each item for every player? Sounds like major bugs just waiting to happen.

No, same value for everyone.

 

And non-tradeable items could be given faux alchemy prices because THEY ARE VALUEABLE TOO!

 

TIME>MONEY>TIME>MONEY

[Zaaps1]

Sounds good, but a different value for each item for every player? Sounds like major bugs just waiting to happen.

No, same value for everyone.

 

And non-tradeable items could be given faux alchemy prices because THEY ARE VALUEABLE TOO!

 

TIME>MONEY>TIME>MONEY

 

In other words, Jagex would decide the value of the faux prices? Ok, that would help in the cases you cited, but in the end the system isn't any different than the current alch system. Might as well just revamp a few alch prices then, right?

[Dire_Wolf]

Sounds good, but a different value for each item for every player? Sounds like major bugs just waiting to happen.

No, same value for everyone.

 

And non-tradeable items could be given faux alchemy prices because THEY ARE VALUEABLE TOO!

 

TIME>MONEY>TIME>MONEY

 

In other words, Jagex would decide the value of the faux prices? Ok, that would help in the cases you cited, but in the end the system isn't any different than the current alch system. Might as well just revamp a few alch prices then, right?

Just balace out "Items kept on death" by using for example FAUX alch prices (If that's possible) so that incidents like this this won't happen:

 

Onyx bracelet protecting over Saradomin sword (We all know Onyx bracelet will never be more valueable than Saradomin sword)

Fury protecting over Armadyl plate (Fury>2-4M, Armadyl 20M+)

 

And so on, things like this you know? Any more questions? :thumbup:

[strilmus]

I'm mostly disconcerted by how easily accepted it is that the death value system is kind of outdated and that it is an acceptable risk that the game contains a major logic flaw and to just live with it.

 

It's like one day, a giant rift that spews forth demons ripped forth from the ether, and years later, the locals are about to hold the 39th annual Humans vs Demons baseball match.

 

It occurs to me that an alch price can be raised above items with actual store values, yet still remain far below their street value for this item and still favor protection for it over the other.

 

It also occurs to me that people should just be able to CHOOSE which items to protect. :P

[Zaaps1]

Sounds good, but a different value for each item for every player? Sounds like major bugs just waiting to happen.

No, same value for everyone.

 

And non-tradeable items could be given faux alchemy prices because THEY ARE VALUEABLE TOO!

 

TIME>MONEY>TIME>MONEY

 

In other words, Jagex would decide the value of the faux prices? Ok, that would help in the cases you cited, but in the end the system isn't any different than the current alch system. Might as well just revamp a few alch prices then, right?

Just balace out "Items kept on death" by using for example FAUX alch prices (If that's possible) so that incidents like this this won't happen:

 

Onyx bracelet protecting over Saradomin sword (We all know Onyx bracelet will never be more valueable than Saradomin sword)

Fury protecting over Armadyl plate (Fury>2-4M, Armadyl 20M+)

 

And so on, things like this you know? Any more questions? :thumbup:

 

 

But what I am saying is that you are adding a whole new complex system that could be averted by just altering a few alch prices to better suit an item's real value.