Items Kept on Death

[Dire_Wolf]

But what I am saying is that you are adding a whole new complex system that could be averted by just altering a few alch prices to better suit an item's real value.

I don't understand, can you explain that in a easy language please. :wink:

[Zaaps1]

But what I am saying is that you are adding a whole new complex system that could be averted by just altering a few alch prices to better suit an item's real value.

I don't understand, can you explain that in a easy language please. :wink:

 

Ok, using your Armadyl plate example. If the Arma plate alchs for ~20k, and the Rune plate for ~40k, why not simply change the Armadyl plate's alch value to 300k-500k? No one in their right mind is going to alch it anyway when you lose millions doing so.

 

This is much better than making this whole new Faux system and assigning each item a new alch value.

 

Of course, with some things, such as the SS vs. Fury problem, this isn't as practical. But overall, it's a much better solution. Small holes such as the above mentioned one can be easily patch anyway.

 

EDIT: heh, 2009 views. Funny little coincidence.

[Dire_Wolf]

But what I am saying is that you are adding a whole new complex system that could be averted by just altering a few alch prices to better suit an item's real value.

I don't understand, can you explain that in a easy language please. :wink:

 

Ok, using your Armadyl plate example. If the Arma plate alchs for ~20k, and the Rune plate for ~40k, why not simply change the Armadyl plate's alch value to 300k-500k? No one in their right mind is going to alch it anyway when you lose millions doing so.

 

This is much better than making this whole new Faux system and assigning each item a new alch value.

 

Of course, with some things, such as the SS vs. Fury problem, this isn't as practical. But overall, it's a much better solution. Small holes such as the above mentioned one can be easily patch anyway.

The Faux system from my view should be used ONLY if they must. But yeah i see what you mean and i agree. However i was thinking of a raise to 40K (Rune platebody is 39K) so that it would make Armadyl plate protected over Rune.

 

But i think it's better to think OVERALL, and also a higher alch price for items similar to Armadyl plate would be best. Who would be so stupid to alch a Saradomin sword for 200K (Just example of alch price) or Armadyl plate for 300K-500K.

 

FAUX price should be used for non-tradeable items, what do you think of that? Again remember, time is money and money is time so why should non-tradeable items which take time not be considered in "Items kept on death"?

[stonewall337]

Ok, so we know we can't go by the GE price. The reason some items are more valuable than others in a set, is that they are lost more, at least partially. This is especially the case with barrows armor. If we changed that, the price change would most likely be radical. I will admit, a little tweaking would be nice, but not really needed. Jagex has done this recently, in the case of crystal shields and crystal bows.

 

That said, it is fairly hard to die in RS, unless you are careless. Deaths from power outages/ laggy internet are the exception, and if this problems are an issue with your RS experience, whenever you MH you take that risk. In that situation, it is your job to, beforehand, find a person to bless your grave, or accept the risk. Now, if you have never/rarely had a DC ingame, due to some outside influence, then of course it is outside of your control. However, one most remember that life isn't fair, and you had beforehand decided that the risk you had of losing the items, however slight or large it would be, was worth the increased advantage you gained by using said items.

 

Personally, I have died fairly few times. In numerous trips to GWD, I have only died once. The reason for that death was that I was AFK'ing sara with a clan trip. I came back, and was dead. My careless was only reason. I also got all my stuff back. I've gone solo to all the GWD bosses, DKS, KBD, KQ, and TDS. I've never died and lost anything at any of those places. If I had died, without fail, I would have lost from 5-70m, but I thought the risk was worth it.

 

In other words, for those who go tl;dr, I believe it is your job to find out what items will protect over others, and by using an item, you accept all risks. The manufacturer is not responsible. Some very slight tweaking would be nice, with items such as ACP/Skirt, but otherwise I believe the status quo doesn't warrant a change.

[Zaaps1]

But what I am saying is that you are adding a whole new complex system that could be averted by just altering a few alch prices to better suit an item's real value.

I don't understand, can you explain that in a easy language please. :wink:

 

Ok, using your Armadyl plate example. If the Arma plate alchs for ~20k, and the Rune plate for ~40k, why not simply change the Armadyl plate's alch value to 300k-500k? No one in their right mind is going to alch it anyway when you lose millions doing so.

 

This is much better than making this whole new Faux system and assigning each item a new alch value.

 

Of course, with some things, such as the SS vs. Fury problem, this isn't as practical. But overall, it's a much better solution. Small holes such as the above mentioned one can be easily patch anyway.

The Faux system from my view should be used ONLY if they must. But yeah i see what you mean and i agree. However i was thinking of a raise to 40K (Rune platebody is 39K) so that it would make Armadyl plate protected over Rune.

 

But i think it's better to think OVERALL, and also a higher alch price for items similar to Armadyl plate would be best. Who would be so stupid to alch a Saradomin sword for 200K (Just example of alch price) or Armadyl plate for 300K-500K.

 

FAUX price should be used for non-tradeable items, what do you think of that? Again remember, time is money and money is time so why should non-tradeable items which take time not be considered in "Items kept on death"?

 

Yes, make a Faux price only for non-tradeable, non-quest related items (but including quest rewards or valuable items such as the Anchor).

 

In addition, I believe, and always have since release, that the Items Kept on Death screen should let you find out the particular value of any given item (alch wise). I always thought it stupid just to tell you which 1,3, or 4 are kept because it doesn't let you compare that to the others. So let's add that feature to the IKonD that lets you check the alch price of any item or (for non-tradeables) the faux value.

 

EDIT: I don't think the Arma plate should reach just 40k. The Rune plate isn't the only thing to consider. Godsword shards, for example.

[Dire_Wolf]

Ok, so we know we can't go by the GE price. The reason some items are more valuable than others in a set, is that they are lost more, at least partially. This is especially the case with barrows armor. If we changed that, the price change would most likely be radical. I will admit, a little tweaking would be nice, but not really needed. Jagex has done this recently, in the case of crystal shields and crystal bows.

 

That said, it is fairly hard to die in RS, unless you are careless. Deaths from power outages/ laggy internet are the exception, and if this problems are an is.....

My friend planned his equipment and made sure he would keep his Armadyl chestplate. But when he received Rune platebody as drop (He did not know it protected over Armadyl), and because of that lost his Armadyl chestplate.

 

Again, he knew the risk...he accepted death could happen. But he was betrayed by the system.

 

How? The system said he would keep his Armadyl plate, but once Rune platebody (50K item) it protected over Armadyl platebody (20M).

 

When my friend got hit 54 damage by Bandos he accepted loss and death, but not the fact that he would loose his Armadyl chestplate so he and i was shocked to see a Rune platebody rather a Armadyl chestplate.

 

I think it needs tweaking (I just hope Jagex tweaks what needs to be tweaked and don't do anything more than that). It's really unfair that people loose their items like this.

Yes, make a Faux price only for non-tradeable, non-quest related items (but including quest rewards or valuable items such as the Anchor).

 

In addition, I believe, and always have since release, that the Items Kept on Death screen should let you find out the particular value of any given item (alch wise). I always thought it stupid just to tell you which 1,3, or 4 are kept because it doesn't let you compare that to the others. So let's add that feature to the IKonD that lets you check the alch price of any item or (for non-tradeables) the faux value.

 

EDIT: I don't think the Arma plate should reach just 40k. The Rune plate isn't the only thing to consider. Godsword shards, for example.

Sounds good and no Armadyl chestplate and other items like it should reach a alch price that it will have be prioritized more than items that's not more than it.

[stonewall337]

However, in RS as IRL, you take the risk that anything could happen. He thought the risk of something bad happening, which would make him lose his ACP, was worth the advantage it gave him.

[Dire_Wolf]

However, in RS as IRL, you take the risk that anything could happen. He thought the risk of something bad happening, which would make him lose his ACP, was worth the advantage it gave him.

No, "Items kept on death" stated he would keep his Armadyl chestplate and that is why i suggested he should use it (and he should it's good to use when ranging Bandos, also great magic defence against sergeant).

 

He already took a risk going to Bandos:

Loosing over 600K+ (He was using quite cheap items)

 

So i don't see how he should loose +20M more when the system said he would keep it.

[Riemis]

This is just a part of RuneScape, it adds a little thrill.

In RS, death is a punishment, a fml moment for some people, keep it unfair!

[Dire_Wolf]

This is just a part of RuneScape, it adds a little thrill.

In RS, death is a punishment, a fml moment for some people, keep it unfair!

How is losing 20M when you shouldn't have lost it (because "Items kept on death" system showed so) a thrill?

[Riemis]

This is just a part of RuneScape, it adds a little thrill.

In RS, death is a punishment, a fml moment for some people, keep it unfair!

How is losing 20M when you shouldn't have lost it (because "Items kept on death" system showed so) a thrill?

It is a punishment for dieing ^^

[stonewall337]

However, in RS as IRL, you take the risk that anything could happen. He thought the risk of something bad happening, which would make him lose his ACP, was worth the advantage it gave him.

No, "Items kept on death" stated he would keep his Armadyl chestplate and that is why i suggested he should use it (and he should it's good to use when ranging Bandos, also great magic defence against sergeant).

 

He already took a risk going to Bandos:

Loosing over 600K+ (He was using quite cheap items)

 

So i don't see how he should loose +20M more when the system said he would keep it.

 

Logic, a subject which should be taught in schools. Items kept on death can't tell the future, obviously. Items kept on death didn't say he would keep those items no matter what, only that those valuable items would be kept over the other items he had in his invy. You don't seem to consider that minor flaw in your logic. That is like me going to a +1 BH world with an AGS, looking to see that I protect it, getting an ancient stat, and getting killed, while I lose AGS. "OMG ITEMS KEPT ON DEATH LIED" Your friend should have known that ACP has a very low protection value, and shouldn't have picked up rune plate. All in all, it comes down to the fact that your friend was careless.

[Soma2035]

This is just a part of RuneScape, it adds a little thrill.

In RS, death is a punishment, a fml moment for some people, keep it unfair!

How is losing 20M when you shouldn't have lost it (because "Items kept on death" system showed so) a thrill?

 

Are you implying that the "Items kept on death" system showed he would keep the item after he picked up the Rune Platebody? If so, it is a bug, and should have been reported to Jagex instead of posted.

 

Otherwise, it's part of the risk you willingly took. If you can't be bothered to analyze this risk, then either you don't care about the item, or, to put it bluntly, you did something stupid. This is not meant to be an insult. Everyone does stupid things from time to time.

 

Your friend lost his 20M because he made a decision to bring it, without considering all the contingencies. He did not use the "Items kept on death" tool correctly, either. This is not the system's fault.

[warren211]

For me, I was training agil with brawlers in pvp before 3-iteming and the 76k risk was changed, so I was able to gain ep and skill agility with brawlers and d mace (mace was risking and was over the 26k risk limit). When I died, for some reason I kept the mace instead and lost my brawlers. It turns out the mace and brawlers alch for the same price, and even though the items kept on death page promised me i'd keep my brawlers and lose the mace, the opposite happened instead. I was crushed.

[Dire_Wolf]

However, in RS as IRL, you take the risk that anything could happen. He thought the risk of something bad happening, which would make him lose his ACP, was worth the advantage it gave him.

No, "Items kept on death" stated he would keep his Armadyl chestplate and that is why i suggested he should use it (and he should it's good to use when ranging Bandos, also great magic defence against sergeant).

 

He already took a risk going to Bandos:

Loosing over 600K+ (He was using quite cheap items)

 

So i don't see how he should loose +20M more when the system said he would keep it.

 

Logic, a subject which should be taught in schools. Items kept on death can't tell the future, obviously. Items kept on death didn't say he would keep those items no matter what, only that those valuable items would be kept over the other items he had in his invy. You don't seem to consider that minor flaw in your logic. That is like me going to a +1 BH world with an AGS, looking to see that I protect it, getting an ancient stat, and getting killed, while I lose AGS. "OMG ITEMS KEPT ON DEATH LIED" Your friend should have known that ACP has a very low protection value, and shouldn't have picked up rune plate. All in all, it comes down to the fact that your friend was careless.

It does not make any sense that a Rune platebody (50K) should protect over Armadyl chestplate (20M)...

 

My friend knowing that ACP has very low protection value is irrelevant because ACP should not be lost over a Rune platebody no matter what.

[Emmentail]

Yes the system is flawed, but don't complain because your friend went into a dangerous situation expecting to keep his best items and then found that infact he was wrong. Changing the Alch Values or core items in the game would have a major effect on the economy.

 

Jagex need to take out the "keep your three best items" system, and replace it with the more common, you get to keep an assortment of your items when you die. The rest VANISH instanty, not visible to other players. Or perhaps just items of value under 3k appear. I never understood the logic behind keeping your three best items. It gives no sense of risk.

[Askthedude]

 

It does not make any sense that a Rune platebody (50K) should protect over Armadyl chestplate (20M)...

 

My friend knowing that ACP has very low protection value is irrelevant because ACP should not be lost over a Rune platebody no matter what.

 

Ignore the fact that a Rune platebody is 50k on the GE and that an Armadyl Plate is 20m, these are player created prices. When Jagex introduced the Armadyl plate they gave it a high alch value of less than the Rune plate, I could be wrong but I'm guessing it's because the Rune plate has better defenses and thus deserves a higher value. They had no way of knowing the price (player created) that the plate would settle at.

 

In the end it comes down to the fact that your friend picked up the plate, knowing the risks or not...

[Riemis]

It does not make any sense that a Rune platebody (50K) should protect over Armadyl chestplate (20M)...

 

My friend knowing that ACP has very low protection value is irrelevant because ACP should not be lost over a Rune platebody no matter what.

If you look at the history of runescape, rune plate protecting over ACP is normal:

-Magic is aaaaaaaaaaaages old.

-Rune was the rarest material.

-Tons of ACPs were around back then, every single Armadyl follower had one!

So in the past rune protected over ACP because it was rarer, and since magic hasn't changed (we simply learn the spell which was "invented" back then) a rune plate is worth more then an ACP.

Go Historians!

[stonewall337]

^Bloody Brilliant. :thumbsup:

[Dire_Wolf]

^Bloody Brilliant. :thumbsup:

I give up, again...on trying to get you all to see that the death system needs some tweaking.

 

My friend who lost his Armadyl platebody:

Planned his equipment and system said he would keep it

He went in knowing the risk that he could die and accepted that

He never went in knowing a Rune platebody protected over his Armadyl chest, otherwise he would change to BLK d hide.

 

He worked hard and fair, yes fair...for 20M and he lost it. "Don't risk what you can't risk" right? Well "Items kept on death" said he would not loose his Armadyl plate. "He could checked the alch value of Armadyl and realized that Rune platebody would protect over Armadyl chestplate", yes he could but it's a game. But you can't always expect someone to do all the work in finding out what protects over what (Drops from bosses) so that they don't do a mistake like this.

 

Thanks all those who were willing to listen. I am out of this topic for now. I learned one thing, never hope for Jagex or players contribute to a more fair death.

 

Will use cheap items most, not just because i can't risk items. But also because PvP have made the price of many items sky high..

[Riemis]

Thanks all those who were willing to listen. I am out of this topic for now. I learned one thing, never hope for Jagex or players contribute to a more fair death.

Death isn't fair, and it shouldn't be, you should be happy you actually keep something.

[Dire_Wolf]

Thanks all those who were willing to listen. I am out of this topic for now. I learned one thing, never hope for Jagex or players contribute to a more fair death.

Death isn't fair, and it shouldn't be, you should be happy you actually keep something.

You have no clue what your talking about. I loose over 1.5M each time and i accept that. That's fair.

 

My friend lost over 600K and 20M more and that's not fair. So don't be a wise guy and tell me "You should be happy you actually kept something.", it's my friend who lost and he lost it unfairly. So don't turn it around like if he got anything back.

 

Interesting that you say "Death isn't fair". Because if they ever made it so that you lost 100% items on death, you will easily forget that. However i am not the likes of you, i believe in balance in a game.

[brunokiller]

I'd also like it if hilts protected over godsword blades.

[Returnofmic]

Time to give my opinion. I agree that it's rather ridiculous to protect an (on the GE) 50k item over a (on the GE) 20m item. However, if you take a look at the Knowledge Base, it clearly states:

 

Do not bring items you are afraid to lose.

 

I'm going to take a wild guess and assume that your friend did not read this carefully enough.

 

Also, you said:

 

"system said he would keep it"

 

What the system couldn't account for was the fact that the game changed after that. At that specific time, those items would be lost, but if another item was acquired, then the system would be "wrong".

 

All in all, I believe the system is okay as it is.

[Dire_Wolf]

Time to give my opinion. I agree that it's rather ridiculous to protect an (on the GE) 50k item over a (on the GE) 20m item. However, if you take a look at the Knowledge Base, it clearly states:

 

Do not bring items you are afraid to lose.

 

I'm going to take a wild guess and assume that your friend did not read this carefully enough.

 

Also, you said:

 

"system said he would keep it"

 

What the system couldn't account for was the fact that the game changed after that. At that specific time, those items would be lost, but if another item was acquired, then the system would be "wrong".

 

All in all, I believe the system is okay as it is.

Rune platebody protecting over Armadyl chestplate is a flaw and i will never change my view of that. Nice signature by the way.