Items Kept on Death

[Riemis]

Stick to the historical value maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan!

[/hippie]

[Soma2035]

Time to give my opinion. I agree that it's rather ridiculous to protect an (on the GE) 50k item over a (on the GE) 20m item. However, if you take a look at the Knowledge Base, it clearly states:

 

Do not bring items you are afraid to lose.

 

I'm going to take a wild guess and assume that your friend did not read this carefully enough.

 

Also, you said:

 

"system said he would keep it"

 

What the system couldn't account for was the fact that the game changed after that. At that specific time, those items would be lost, but if another item was acquired, then the system would be "wrong".

 

All in all, I believe the system is okay as it is.

Rune platebody protecting over Armadyl chestplate is a flaw and i will never change my view of that. Nice signature by the way.

 

Why is it a flaw? Items are assigned an in-game price. How players value the items, and thus how high the price is on the Grand Exchange, is irrelevant. Trying to follow these values would be utterly ridiculous, because how players value items changes over time, and often times, how players value items is dependent on the game's value.

 

You may disagree with the value of an Armadyl Chestplate, but that doesn't make it a flaw. If you really, truly care about the item, you would take the time to analyze the situation fully before taking the item there, especially when there's a clear warning NOT TO GO IN WITH ITEMS YOU DON'T WANT TO LOSE. The system isn't flawed just because a player doesn't take the time to consider it.

[Dire_Wolf]

Time to give my opinion. I agree that it's rather ridiculous to protect an (on the GE) 50k item over a (on the GE) 20m item. However, if you take a look at the Knowledge Base, it clearly states:

 

Do not bring items you are afraid to lose.

 

I'm going to take a wild guess and assume that your friend did not read this carefully enough.

 

Also, you said:

 

"system said he would keep it"

 

What the system couldn't account for was the fact that the game changed after that. At that specific time, those items would be lost, but if another item was acquired, then the system would be "wrong".

 

All in all, I believe the system is okay as it is.

Rune platebody protecting over Armadyl chestplate is a flaw and i will never change my view of that. Nice signature by the way.

 

Why is it a flaw? Items are assigned an in-game price. How players value the items, and thus how high the price is on the Grand Exchange, is irrelevant. Trying to follow these values would be utterly ridiculous, because how players value items changes over time, and often times, how players value items is dependent on the game's value.

 

You may disagree with the value of an Armadyl Chestplate, but that doesn't make it a flaw. If you really, truly care about the item, you would take the time to analyze the situation fully before taking the item there, especially when there's a clear warning NOT TO GO IN WITH ITEMS YOU DON'T WANT TO LOSE. The system isn't flawed just because a player doesn't take the time to consider it.

It is flawed because the value of Armadyl (GP or not GP) is higher than Rune platebody. The system is flawed because we loose items that we aren't supposed to loose...

[brunokiller]

Why does bandos armour have a significant higher alch value than armadyl while they're basically the same kind of item. Seems like a flaw to me.

[Dire_Wolf]

Soma, DFS is more valueable than rune kite right?

Dragon full helm is more valueable than rune full helm right?

 

Tell me, if rune kite protected over DFS...would you still say it's not a flaw? Because using that example, it is exactly the same thing.

 

Armadyl chestplate, Saradomin sword and other items true value is not considered in the death system.

[Soma2035]

Soma, DFS is more valueable than rune kite right?

Dragon full helm is more valueable than rune full helm right?

 

Tell me, if rune kite protected over DFS...would you still say it's not a flaw? Because using that example, it is exactly the same thing.

 

Armadyl chestplate, Saradomin sword and other items true value is not considered in the death system.

 

If Rune Kite had an in-game value greater than that of a Dragonfire shield, it would not be a flaw. "True Value" is the value the game naturally assigns. What you see in the GE is player-perceived value, which is different, and varies enormously.

 

For example, which is worth more, a Left Half of a Dragon Shield or a Saradomin trimmed Kiteshield? At one point in time, the Left Half would be worth so much more than the SAradomin trimmed Kiteshield. These days, they're worth less than 100k.

[Dire_Wolf]

Soma, DFS is more valueable than rune kite right?

Dragon full helm is more valueable than rune full helm right?

 

Tell me, if rune kite protected over DFS...would you still say it's not a flaw? Because using that example, it is exactly the same thing.

 

Armadyl chestplate, Saradomin sword and other items true value is not considered in the death system.

 

If Rune Kite had an in-game value greater than that of a Dragonfire shield, it would not be a flaw. "True Value" is the value the game naturally assigns. What you see in the GE is player-perceived value, which is different, and varies enormously.

 

For example, which is worth more, a Left Half of a Dragon Shield or a Saradomin trimmed Kiteshield? At one point in time, the Left Half would be worth so much more than the SAradomin trimmed Kiteshield. These days, they're worth less than 100k.

I don't care about G.E system, it won't work and i have said that many times. But tell me then, what is it that decides "True value"?

[Soma2035]

Soma, DFS is more valueable than rune kite right?

Dragon full helm is more valueable than rune full helm right?

 

Tell me, if rune kite protected over DFS...would you still say it's not a flaw? Because using that example, it is exactly the same thing.

 

Armadyl chestplate, Saradomin sword and other items true value is not considered in the death system.

 

If Rune Kite had an in-game value greater than that of a Dragonfire shield, it would not be a flaw. "True Value" is the value the game naturally assigns. What you see in the GE is player-perceived value, which is different, and varies enormously.

 

For example, which is worth more, a Left Half of a Dragon Shield or a Saradomin trimmed Kiteshield? At one point in time, the Left Half would be worth so much more than the SAradomin trimmed Kiteshield. These days, they're worth less than 100k.

I don't care about G.E system, it won't work and i have said that many times. But tell me then, what is it that decides "True value"?

 

Jagex. What else?

 

The true values are nothing more than a number picked by Jagex. Sometimes, they're relative to similar items (Rune Platebody requires 5 rune bars while Rune Dagger requires 1, therefore Rune Platebody is valued higher). Items that come in multiple pieces, at least one of which is obtained as a rare drop, are generally valued very high (Dragon Square Shield, Dragonfire Shield, Sigiled Spirit Shields). Items that are sold by stores are relative to their store price.

 

In the end, how it's determined doesn't really matter, because the price is made available to us to work with.

[Dire_Wolf]

Jagex. What else?

You made it sound like something or someone generated the true value lol. Well i think Armadyl chestplate should have higher value than Rune platebody, and that's why i will stick to what i said...a flaw in the system.

 

Don't get why you don't see that. If you look at usefulness, Armadyl chestplate is more useful than Rune platebody and that's what true value should be based on from my view.

[Soma2035]

Jagex. What else?

You made it sound like something or someone generated the true value lol. Well i think Armadyl chestplate should have higher value than Rune platebody, and that's why i will stick to what i said...a flaw in the system.

 

Don't get why you don't see that. If you look at usefulness, Armadyl chestplate is more useful than Rune platebody and that's what true value should be based on from my view.

 

Sorry, but that's absolutely not true. An Armadyl Chestplate is NOT more useful than a Rune Platebody. I can tell you for a fact that, given those two pieces of armor, and ONLY those two pieces of armor, I would be using the Rune Platebody far more than I'd be using the Armadyl Chestplate.

 

An item's usefulness is not fixed. I know many players who would find a Rune Platebody more useful, and many players who would find an Armadyl Chestplate more useful. The only real separating factor is player-perceived value, which is irrelevant, because it can change radically.

[Dire_Wolf]

Jagex. What else?

You made it sound like something or someone generated the true value lol. Well i think Armadyl chestplate should have higher value than Rune platebody, and that's why i will stick to what i said...a flaw in the system.

 

Don't get why you don't see that. If you look at usefulness, Armadyl chestplate is more useful than Rune platebody and that's what true value should be based on from my view.

 

Sorry, but that's absolutely not true. An Armadyl Chestplate is NOT more useful than a Rune Platebody. I can tell you for a fact that, given those two pieces of armor, and ONLY those two pieces of armor, I would be using the Rune Platebody far more than I'd be using the Armadyl Chestplate.

 

An item's usefulness is not fixed. I know many players who would find a Rune Platebody more useful, and many players who would find an Armadyl Chestplate more useful. The only real separating factor is player-perceived value, which is irrelevant, because it can change radically.

Good point, i did not see it from the other perspective. But if you view the items true value based on how good it is for the thing it is designed for? Wouldn't that be right?

 

Example of what i mean.

Armadyl chestplate protecting over Rune platebody (Armadyl has higher use than Rune platebody for the groups that use them)

Bandos protecting over Karil's top (Because Bandos is more valued in usefulness for meleers than Karil is for Rangers, >Armadyl being the most useful for rangers).

 

Get what i mean? Wouldn't that work?

[Soma2035]

Jagex. What else?

You made it sound like something or someone generated the true value lol. Well i think Armadyl chestplate should have higher value than Rune platebody, and that's why i will stick to what i said...a flaw in the system.

 

Don't get why you don't see that. If you look at usefulness, Armadyl chestplate is more useful than Rune platebody and that's what true value should be based on from my view.

 

Sorry, but that's absolutely not true. An Armadyl Chestplate is NOT more useful than a Rune Platebody. I can tell you for a fact that, given those two pieces of armor, and ONLY those two pieces of armor, I would be using the Rune Platebody far more than I'd be using the Armadyl Chestplate.

 

An item's usefulness is not fixed. I know many players who would find a Rune Platebody more useful, and many players who would find an Armadyl Chestplate more useful. The only real separating factor is player-perceived value, which is irrelevant, because it can change radically.

Good point, i did not see it from the other perspective. But if you view the items true value based on how good it is for the thing it is designed for? Wouldn't that be right?

 

Example of what i mean.

Armadyl chestplate protecting over Rune platebody (Armadyl has higher use than Rune platebody for the groups that use them)

Bandos protecting over Karil's top (Because Bandos is more valued in usefulness for meleers than Karil is for Rangers, >Armadyl being the most useful for rangers).

 

Get what i mean? Wouldn't that work?

 

Why is Armadyl for rangers? Why is Karils for rangers? While slaying waterfiends months ago, I saw multiple people using melee attacks while wearing those two sets of armors. Which one is better? Armadyl supplies more defense and more prayer, but at the cost of attack bonus. Karils doesn't penalize attack, but gives less defense and prayer. How can you say for certain which is better?

 

You assume every item has only 1 purpose, which is not true. Not to mention, what happens if a new armor is added tomorrow that's cheap, better defense than Armadyl, better prayer bonus, but with the same penalties? Now Karils will certainly be more useful than Armadyl, because Karils fills a different niche, and Armadyl is severely outclassed in its own niche.

 

What about items just for looks?

[Dire_Wolf]

Why is Armadyl for rangers? Why is Karils for rangers? While slaying waterfiends months ago, I saw multiple people using melee attacks while wearing those two sets of armors. Which one is better? Armadyl supplies more defense and more prayer, but at the cost of attack bonus. Karils doesn't penalize attack, but gives less defense and prayer. How can you say for certain which is better?

 

You assume every item has only 1 purpose, which is not true. Not to mention, what happens if a new armor is added tomorrow that's cheap, better defense than Armadyl, better prayer bonus, but with the same penalties? Now Karils will certainly be more useful than Armadyl, because Karils fills a different niche, and Armadyl is severely outclassed in its own niche.

 

What about items just for looks?

It was just examples of how that could be. I don't assume every item has only 1 purpose. I use Karil alot, and all other armoury.

 

EDIT:

I forgot. Because Karil and Armadyl is typical ranging armour, it should be considered withing death system as so.

[Soma2035]

Why is Armadyl for rangers? Why is Karils for rangers? While slaying waterfiends months ago, I saw multiple people using melee attacks while wearing those two sets of armors. Which one is better? Armadyl supplies more defense and more prayer, but at the cost of attack bonus. Karils doesn't penalize attack, but gives less defense and prayer. How can you say for certain which is better?

 

You assume every item has only 1 purpose, which is not true. Not to mention, what happens if a new armor is added tomorrow that's cheap, better defense than Armadyl, better prayer bonus, but with the same penalties? Now Karils will certainly be more useful than Armadyl, because Karils fills a different niche, and Armadyl is severely outclassed in its own niche.

 

What about items just for looks?

It was just examples of how that could be. I don't assume every item has only 1 purpose. I use Karil alot, and all other armoury.

 

Still, the point stands - it's very difficult to value items according to usefulness, when what is useful fluctuates greatly. Think about Guthans. It was less than 10 million before the fight caves were released, because while it was good, it was really never necessary. After the fight caves came out, it shot up to 16 million a set.

 

Now look at today's metagame. We have healing familiars, Enhanced Excalibur, and Saradomin Godsword as prominent healing methods. What if tomorrow, Onyx Bolts were made much easier to get? All of a sudden, Guthans takes another hit as far as "usefulness" goes.

 

Usefulness can not be accurately gauged because it fluctuates wildly, just like Grand Exchange prices. Realize that Grand Exchange prices themselves are determined by usefulness - how useful a player perceives an item is obviously factored into the value a player places upon an item, in that you would not buy an item useless to you, but you would be willing to pay more for a item useful to you.

[Dire_Wolf]

Still, the point stands - it's very difficult to value items according to usefulness, when what is useful fluctuates greatly. Think about Guthans. It was less than 10 million before the fight caves were released, because while it was good, it was really never necessary. After the fight caves came out, it shot up to 16 million a set.

 

Now look at today's metagame. We have healing familiars, Enhanced Excalibur, and Saradomin Godsword as prominent healing methods. What if tomorrow, Onyx Bolts were made much easier to get? All of a sudden, Guthans takes another hit as far as "usefulness" goes.

 

Usefulness can not be accurately gauged because it fluctuates wildly, just like Grand Exchange prices. Realize that Grand Exchange prices themselves are determined by usefulness - how useful a player perceives an item is obviously factored into the value a player places upon an item, in that you would not buy an item useless to you, but you would be willing to pay more for a item useful to you.

Very good point. You have convinced me. But guess? I still find it a flaw! hahahahaha noob!!!

JUST joking dude, don't kill me! :grin: Well seeing it that way it makes it clearer. I find it unfair that Rune platebody protects over Armadyl, but you are right. I guess it would only be made worse if Jagex tried to fix it (Just like how PvP has become).

 

No more to discuss for me. Again, unfair but it can't be helped. :?

[Unb34t4bl3]

They need to just let you click and drag items into the items protected.

 

So obvious, yet Jagex cannot figure that out.

[Dire_Wolf]

They need to just let you click and drag items into the items protected.

 

So obvious, yet Jagex cannot figure that out.

Letting people to choose the items to protect or G.E sounds not right to me.

[testingsomestuff123]

I'd also like it if hilts protected over godsword blades.

 

Hah! Reminds me of a funny story that happened to a friend. He was pking with ags and was going to wield ags, but he clicked dismantle, and his opponent pulls out claws and kills him. He was hoping to see hilt in invy, but nope. He saw the blade. :D

[walka92]

then dont die. and plan your gear better

 

other than that, the only "fair" way to do it would be based on GE prices...

[Slayer_Jesse]

i somewhat agree with the people that say, "know what your risking." however, there are some really outdated protect over items, such as d sq. even if they dont move to a ge based value system (witch would be ideal, imo) they could atleast update some of the high alch values.

[zotto]

 

When did you last boss hunt and which boss?

 

DK's, sometime before RuneTek5 came in. I admit I rarely go boss hunting as I don't enjoy it that much, however when I do there will always be someone to bless my grave in the 0% chance that I die. Always keep your HP up, pay attention to what you're doing, and have a good internet connection. Obviously if you had a powercut then there's not much you can do.

 

Most people that i've seen die in GWD think "oh they'll never hit that high on me", and then get splatted by a few hits in a row and collapse. Almost funny. Oh and if you're really messing up, use a house teletab. You can always start a trip again.

 

Tbh with gravestones Jagex pretty much elimated any real risk in the normal monster killing game. What's the point in dangerous monsters if you can just run back within 5 minutes and pick up all your gear again.

My friend did not bother to go back and get his items back though he had 5 minutes. Why not? Because he wouldn't get it back.

 

1) Time won't allow it (and if you don't have a back up GWD equipment in case of death your pretty much done for timewise)

 

2) When you manage to get back to your grave, how will you survive? Zamorak boss will really wreck anyone apart if they are after getting their items back from grave (If your alone) and getting items back at Zamorak is a huge risk itself.

 

Saradomin boss will also be as deadly as Zamorak, Bandos less and Armadyl takes far to much time for KC.

 

Also GWD bosses>Higher risk but also higher reward. So i do not see how Jagex elimnated real risk.

 

KBD, KQ and so on drops very lame items. Even if you die and run back to those type of bosses i am positive you will have trouble. Less than GWD bosses, but still trouble

 

Isn't GWD supposed to be risky? As in it is designed this way.

[1230abcz]

Well, I've had a few of these weird happenings myself. I don't have any problems with the entire system, like a rune chain protecting over an Armadyl plate, but the weirder stuff.

 

Ring of Wealth protects over Glory (charged or uncharged). I don't see how that even begins to make sense.

[Mecakoto]

All death in Runescape is avoidable. Yes. Even from disconnections.

[1230abcz]

All death in Runescape is avoidable. Yes. Even from disconnections.

 

 

 

I was at Armadyl GWD, and I my browser closed for no reason. I logged back in and found myself in Falador with a spectral ss, armadyl plate, and verac helm. Good fight 4M.

[Youmu]

I still don't get why explorer's ring is in one of the protected items, when wearing skilling gear...

 

Honestly, it protects that but not a fly fishing rod? :huh: