Dangerous CWA? Overlooked and undervalued?

[Nobody]

When Clan Wars (CWA) came out there was only the “Classic” arena and limited options making it a poor replacement for the now non-existent wilderness. Sometime after Jagex created Free-For-All (FFA) arenas which had the choice of safe or dangerous and areas within them that were multi and vaguely resembled the area around the Demonic Ruins (commonly called Gdz). Jagex during or around this time added more rules to CWA, including safe/dangerous, food on/off, range on/off, etc. A few months later the system was once again updated and Player-vs-Player (PVP) worlds and Bounty Worlds (BW) as they are now were created and refined into their current system.

 

The question that I ask the readers of this topic is this, why do clans not war in CWA (Dangerous)? It offers almost everything that a PVP or BW offers without the risk of crashing with two minor exceptions:

 

1) there is no EXACT replica of the wilderness that wars are normally held in

2) There is no “reward” for kills, eg. No rune to loot

 

From the Knowledge Base on CWA (Dangerous):

If this option is turned on, you will drop all of your items if you die, holding onto your most expensive item if you have the Protect Item prayer active. Beware! There are no gravestones in Clan Wars challenges. Furthermore, you will not be able to retrieve your dropped stuff, so don't take anything that you're not prepared to lose. In such matches, you may be able to collect some of your defeated foes' items - food, potions, runes and other ammunition - assuming you can use them in the current battle (so you can't pick up food if its use has been disabled, for instance). Any such drops will affect your trade limit, as well as your victim's trade limit. (Jagex Ltd.)

The system for CWA (Dangerous) would be exactly the same as that of the old wilderness without the rune which many clans are against their members looting in the first place. The old tactic of looting food/pots would return and if Jagex made an arena exactly like the old wilderness where clans used to war it would be the old wilderness in miniature without the risk of crashing. The goal of making your opponent lose rune would be in place and clans could loot food again without risk of crashing and an accurate, unbiased system to determine who had more kills aka was more effective. Rather than a clan saying well we were wrecking you the whole time and you just outlasted it could be to a certain kill count or time.

 

The other main argument I see arising to this is that it ruins the unplanned part of an unplanned PKRI. I propose that clans PK like normal and if they decide they want to continue fighting they move to CWA (Dangerous) and continue on from there. If not they continue PKing or end depending on if they want to risk running into the same clan again. This obviously would not apply to planned fights as it could start in CWA in the first place.

 

Feel free to discuss intelligently.

[Ralph]

Interesting post, I have something written up about updates and stuff that are simple to make but would affect the clan world greatly.

 

PS-first (gg madcat.)

[Clay_More12]

I think its because people want to make money from the Rune, Corruption E.g, If CWA (Dangerous) had that, Im sure no-one would use PvP anymore.

[Danny_TeamDan]

First off, Glad to see a mod create som discussion. <3:

 

Okay so the main reason clans don't do it really, is because the fact that there is no need for them when they can do this in pvp and get drops. Sure there is crashing/little worlds etc but it's the best thrilling option. Another reason is returning. If you die you respawn just outside the arena and can run to bh bank and back very quickly. The maps are small / boring compared to the Wilderness.

 

I had some epic ideas on how to make CWA dangerous better sorta but never really completed it for public viewing.

 

Clans that are made in CWA era see no need to loose rune, clans that are made for pvp see no reason not to war in pvp. Crashers create a thrill of the unexpected. They may complain and argue but it's the best version of warring that's available to them.

[Nobody]

I think its because people want to make money from the Rune, Corruption E.g, If CWA (Dangerous) had that, Im sure no-one would use PvP anymore.

 

So it's more about the drops? So if it had a drop system of sorts it would replace PVP?

 

First off, Glad to see a mod create som discussion. <3:

 

Okay so the main reason clans don't do it really, is because the fact that there is no need for them when they can do this in pvp and get drops. Sure there is crashing/little worlds etc but it's the best thrilling option. Another reason is returning. If you die you respawn just outside the arena and can run to bh bank and back very quickly. The maps are small / boring compared to the Wilderness.

 

I had some epic ideas on how to make CWA dangerous better sorta but never really completed it for public viewing.

 

Clans that are made in CWA era see no need to loose rune, clans that are made for pvp see no reason not to war in pvp. Crashers create a thrill of the unexpected. They may complain and argue but it's the best version of warring that's available to them.

 

So like I said if say there was a map that was basically spiders to gdz and possibly some sort of drop system it would better than PVP?

[Clay_More12]

Yes, if there was a drop system similar to PvP, Im sure Crashing Clans wouldn't even make a name for themselves.

[dangeresque]

Why risk rune to gain nothing? If it was given good drops people would use it, but then it would just ruin the wildy. And if it was give na spiders to GDZ map it would be gay I think, it would have to be something different and creative.

 

But it just comes down to basic human nature, no point in risking something to gain nothing?

[Kimberly]

Why risk rune to gain nothing? If it was given good drops people would use it, but then it would just ruin the wildy. And if it was give na spiders to GDZ map it would be gay I think, it would have to be something different and creative.

 

But it just comes down to basic human nature, no point in risking something to gain nothing?

 

Unless we were 1) winning 2) in a pk trip, I was usually told not to loot. It slows you down and takes up space where you could've looted food.

 

All this great chance at gain is what, 30k-60k on average if you even get the kill? I could understand the argument for corrupt items, but they're so rare that they hardly come into play in your opportunity cost.

 

All dangerous CWA is missing is a time limit on how fast you can return to better replicate the actual aspect of returning and a decent wilderness based map.

[The Observer]

I think that many people prefer tradition (fighting in the Wilderness) rather than dangerous CWA fights. Sure, there is always a chance of crashing, but there always used to be that element that was always there that clans are pretty much used to it by now.

 

Also, I've found that getting drops is an incentive for training. If you have higher levels, then you will get more kills. (This will help propel me to 90 Ranged. :P)

 

The terrain is also more enjoyable than what CWA offers. You just don't have a "west tree" or "greater rocks" or "H2" in CWA maps.

[dangeresque]

Why risk rune to gain nothing? If it was given good drops people would use it, but then it would just ruin the wildy. And if it was give na spiders to GDZ map it would be gay I think, it would have to be something different and creative.

 

But it just comes down to basic human nature, no point in risking something to gain nothing?

 

Unless we were 1) winning 2) in a pk trip, I was usually told not to loot. It slows you down and takes up space where you could've looted food.

 

All this great chance at gain is what, 30k-60k on average if you even get the kill? I could understand the argument for corrupt items, but they're so rare that they hardly come into play in your opportunity cost.

 

All dangerous CWA is missing is a time limit on how fast you can return to better replicate the actual aspect of returning and a decent wilderness based map.

of course you're told not to loot, but who doesn't? :P

 

And killer brings up a good point about tradition.

 

Another question is why are places like Wizzy tower, Varrok Sewers, Al-kharid, Roach dungeon place, Fally, and other multi zones overlooked? Atleast in them, unlike FFA dangerous, you get drops :P.

[generaldesor]

- looting

 

- tradition

 

-for a run-in, pvp is kinda better because is difficult to return , so lets say if your outpulled but you dominate the fight you can still win, meanwhile in cwa , as dan said, the bh bank is so close, so its really weird to see a clan that is outnumbered win.

 

-maps at the moment arent that good.

 

 

about wizzy tower , sewers, al kharid, etc ,etc the problem is you can teleport easely, and that single is very close.

 

 

I would say if a clan really wants no crashing and all, and still having the risk to lose items, dangerous is the best option,but if a clan is willing to take the risk to get crashed , pvp is definetly better.

[Rachellove9]

Joe

 

I think that most people want the gain in their potential as well. So like if you and I are out with the clan and it ends we can go off and pk then and make cash.

 

Rachy <3:

[obfuscator]

I think the main reason clans prefer pvp is to loot - as much as most clans "don't allow it" its undeniable that it happens, and happens frequently. I personally like CWA almost as much as pvp, but as for dangerous CWA, I was never a fan, for a few reasons. I think that since clan members (particularly in top clans) gain and lose so much armour and wealth in short spaces of time it's hard to find fans of wasting it completely. Some clever clanners manage to make profit of pkri's (I was never one of them :() and even so you don't feel so bad dying when what you're losing isn't necessarily being wasted.

 

I think the dangerous, suspenseful, anything can happen theme of PVP is attractive to many top clanners, it certainly was to me.

[Rachellove9]

Maybe, if they updated CWA with a random layout to fight in or some new one that clans haven't been to yet. That might generate more excitement too.

 

(It is nice to see you Y Guy. Stop by my channel sometime.)

 

Rachy <3:

[Uffan5]

Main reason why i think it isn't used that much is because in the wild you can gain rune, in CWA you can't. In CWA it isn't as thrilling, losing a rune set, not being able to gain it back, and simply walking to to bh and back and fight again. In the wild, there is that extra thrill. It's hard to explain but the crashing threat and other clans watching/ac'ing fights makes it a lot more interesting than dangerous CWA.

[Danny_TeamDan]

I basically made a thread in illusions forums about this, incorporate a dangers cwa arena deep in wild and allow clans to fight for risks + loot system. There's a lot more that i added too, maybe if ralph pushes me more to finish and helps me i will post it here on tip.it..

[Raee]

Most likely a combination of what's been said; Lack of loot, interesting maps and fast returns.

 

Would be nice if kill counter from CWA could be used in pvp wars, without being abused :\.

[SAGE]

The moderating here is worse than Zybez....

 

As I said before it was deleted, 'CWA is garbage.'

[Billy Key]

The moderating here is worse than Zybez....

 

As I said before it was deleted, 'CWA is garbage.'

 

Well why is it garbage? If you have the possibility of losing your stuff and making others lose their stuff then isn't that what everyone was complaining about? What you've done is give a statement and not back it up and it's just not a helpful thing to say really. It was probably deleted before because you are not contributing to discussion.

 

from my point of view:

 

You can't really gain, it's not allowed in theory but just the possibility of gain is something that people enjoy.

 

Personally I enjoy safe CWAri's just as much as PvP now if not more because it becomes all about who is getting more kills instead of being about who can return for longer.

 

I have to say I think Jagex missed a trick when they didn't make a members gate map in CWA, that is the main place that clans fight and it is not included in FFA or in CWA so I think that is a large part of the reason why people don't use them.

 

Also all the maps have their problems, if you have spiders to gdz then you have places to hug and you have space to drag and there is no arena in CWA that gives both to the same standard, the closest really is turrets but the walls aren't huggable in the same way as the rocks and any tanking is based around dragging really. classic arena is the opposite, the walls do give you opportunity to tank but there is next to nowhere to drag as the boundaries are so compact.

[Mister_T]

I think its because people want to make money from the Rune, Corruption E.g, If CWA (Dangerous) had that, Im sure no-one would use PvP anymore.

Na I dont think so, Cwa maps aren't the same as PvP. You never know what might rush or crash you in PvP. It gives us a flashback of the old times. The good times, when it was normal that a clan had 100+ ml. When there where no cwa clans. Clan wars isnt the same, it doesnt give the same feeling as a fight in PvP. I never wanna end in PvP, the only thing I think about in a cwa fight is getting pilled so I can go.

 

@ Steeny, members aren't allowed to loot more then 4 items in a pkri. Atleast, in 2Mighty. Snipers aren't even allowed to loot anything. Food makes the diff, and if I see someone looting the first thing I do after that fight is giving that person a warn. Thats why I pk with DK. It's fun and im allowed to loot!

[Metallic10]

i like looting rune so nah

[Laikrob]

If they added at least a (reduced) chance like on PvP for getting loot, it would make more sense for clans to choose this option. As it is now, it doesn't really appeal to as many as it should. No matter how many clan rules there are against looting, it happens in all clans, and it is undeniably an incentive for PvP wars today. Hell, if I can get my "expenses" covered for my next few wars in 1 drop by taking 5 seconds to pick up a corrupted item, then why not? That saves me spending hours making money to pay for sets, and I can do other beneficial things for the clan instead, such as recruiting, making events or other things not measured in gp or amount of street cred earned. I'm all for small adjustments to the Dangerous CWA to make it more appealing, while at the same time avoid the RWTers.

[decebal]

Three reasons:

 

1. There is no reward, making it a huge sinkhole.

2. The maps are too small if you are talking about CWA, not ffa.

3. It is easy to return.

[Danny_TeamDan]

The moderating here is worse than Zybez....

 

As I said before it was deleted, 'CWA is garbage.'

 

Well why is it garbage? If you have the possibility of losing your stuff and making others lose their stuff then isn't that what everyone was complaining about? What you've done is give a statement and not back it up and it's just not a helpful thing to say really. It was probably deleted before because you are not contributing to discussion.

 

from my point of view:

 

You can't really gain, it's not allowed in theory but just the possibility of gain is something that people enjoy.

 

Personally I enjoy safe CWAri's just as much as PvP now if not more because it becomes all about who is getting more kills instead of being about who can return for longer.

 

I have to say I think Jagex missed a trick when they didn't make a members gate map in CWA, that is the main place that clans fight and it is not included in FFA or in CWA so I think that is a large part of the reason why people don't use them.

 

Also all the maps have their problems, if you have spiders to gdz then you have places to hug and you have space to drag and there is no arena in CWA that gives both to the same standard, the closest really is turrets but the walls aren't huggable in the same way as the rocks and any tanking is based around dragging really. classic arena is the opposite, the walls do give you opportunity to tank but there is next to nowhere to drag as the boundaries are so compact.

 

It also becomes about who can tribrid more. THE always had beast ranger units and some of them binded as well. It honnestly makes it too easy for offense because you can bring tons of binds/arrows whilst in pvp if you're getting sniped a lot you bring less binds or less arrows or you run out because you can't bring your hole bank. CWRI dangerous doesn't help much though with bad loot system even though you're not supposed to loot you might as well pick up atleast 1 rune item to pay for some pizzas or get better death heat lulz?

[Nobody]

If you die with your loot you didn't make any money back anyway. With returning I can see where it takes less time to return but is that always a bad thing? Wouldn't a PKRI be more interesting if people could return faster?