New Prayers in PvM

[Darkvengence]

What do the new prayers do in PvM, specifically the Sap/Leech, and Deflect prayers.

[Ambler]

sap and leech, I have been told (not 100% sure if true though) only affect players, while I AM ALMOST CERTAIN that the "deflect prayers" have the same effect on Monsters as they do on players (2 solo corps a trip anyone? ;) )

[Darkvengence]

Do the Deflect prayers only deflect damage that got through, or damage that it blocked?

 

Because if it deflects damage that it blocked.. good fight Kree'arra.

[NastyJenny]

Deflect is aka the Protect from ?

 

I did an Iron/Steel drags trip after quest :

 

I deflect melee, didn't get hit at all. It did 1 rarely 2 (and that only on Steel Drags !) extra damage. I can assume it sends back around 10% of damage you would have taken *if* not praying.

 

Bit unsure, just adding own experience with new prays so far.

[i_D_r]

So in other words, gf kree and arma prices

[Maxingmck]

i dont get how a 6 on kree will change arma prices?

[JoeDaStudd]

i dont get how a 6 on kree will change arma prices?

Its not just reflect which comes into play.

 

The sap and leech prayers dynamically reduce the defence of the target.

 

Sap x Drain enemy x and Defence by 10%, increasing to 20% over time.

Leech Defence (80) Boosts Defence by 5%, increasing to 10% over time. Drains enemy Defence by 10%, increasing to 25% over time.

 

Lower defence = quicker kills with 10% reflected added onto that its a big increase in kills per hour at any boss. More kills = more items entering the game.

 

Give it a week or so to kick in (the requirements are pretty high when you look a the pre-quests) and it will be almost the definitive boss hunting prayer "book" for anyone over 71 (80 is were is gets really good) prayer.

[stonewall337]

And yet, unless you have 95, you don't have as many positive boosts, since you can't use piety.

[Sinkhan]

Its not just reflect which comes into play.

 

The sap and leech prayers dynamically reduce the defence of the target.

 

Sap x Drain enemy x and Defence by 10%, increasing to 20% over time.

Leech Defence (80) Boosts Defence by 5%, increasing to 10% over time. Drains enemy Defence by 10%, increasing to 25% over time.

 

Lower defence = quicker kills with 10% reflected added onto that its a big increase in kills per hour at any boss. More kills = more items entering the game.

 

Give it a week or so to kick in (the requirements are pretty high when you look a the pre-quests) and it will be almost the definitive boss hunting prayer "book" for anyone over 71 (80 is were is gets really good) prayer.

 

However, maintaining all of these prayers at the same time is going to put a huge drain on prayer points. I wonder if more than 1 person uses a leech or sap on the same monster the drain will stack.

 

I spy a potential rise in prayer pots

[i_D_r]

well kree attacks everyone in room at the same time -> the more players on curses the more those constant 6s will add up. Teaming just got easier. In theory anyways. Couple that with the defense lowering prayers, and kree just got owned.

[i_D_r]

The real question is whether these curses stack among other players curses. And if they stack on the base level of the boss or, or on the current level of the boss. Either way, if they do stack, bosses just got a lot easier. If they don't stack, teams will be planning curse usage among the team.

[JoeDaStudd]

Its not just reflect which comes into play.

 

The sap and leech prayers dynamically reduce the defence of the target.

 

Sap x Drain enemy x and Defence by 10%, increasing to 20% over time.

Leech Defence (80) Boosts Defence by 5%, increasing to 10% over time. Drains enemy Defence by 10%, increasing to 25% over time.

 

Lower defence = quicker kills with 10% reflected added onto that its a big increase in kills per hour at any boss. More kills = more items entering the game.

 

Give it a week or so to kick in (the requirements are pretty high when you look a the pre-quests) and it will be almost the definitive boss hunting prayer "book" for anyone over 71 (80 is were is gets really good) prayer.

 

However, maintaining all of these prayers at the same time is going to put a huge drain on prayer points. I wonder if more than 1 person uses a leech or sap on the same monster the drain will stack.

 

I spy a potential rise in prayer pots

Last I heard there drain rates are actually slightly less then there normal equivalent, so using them in combination at GWD would be the same as normal prayers for protect + boost if not less.

[Silver_Corner]

Its not just reflect which comes into play.

 

The sap and leech prayers dynamically reduce the defence of the target.

 

Sap x Drain enemy x and Defence by 10%, increasing to 20% over time.

Leech Defence (80) Boosts Defence by 5%, increasing to 10% over time. Drains enemy Defence by 10%, increasing to 25% over time.

 

Lower defence = quicker kills with 10% reflected added onto that its a big increase in kills per hour at any boss. More kills = more items entering the game.

 

Give it a week or so to kick in (the requirements are pretty high when you look a the pre-quests) and it will be almost the definitive boss hunting prayer "book" for anyone over 71 (80 is were is gets really good) prayer.

 

However, maintaining all of these prayers at the same time is going to put a huge drain on prayer points. I wonder if more than 1 person uses a leech or sap on the same monster the drain will stack.

 

I spy a potential rise in prayer pots

 

Doubtful it would stack as NPC's only target one player at a time.

KQ, Bandos, and Kree all have multi-attacks but only target one player at a time.

 

This is best seen with Bandos, he only targets one player but his range attack hits everyone. Kree & KQ work in the same way. This is why, despite their attacks hiting everyone, Kree & KQ still spin while using their multi attacks.

 

So Im guessing the drain would only be in effect if the player being targeted had it on. So unless everyone was praying it, it might not drain at all. That also means it would not stack.

[Obtaurian]

Friends and I did some testing last night. The effects of the curses do NOT stack. Two players using Warrior Sap do not cause the victim to lose 20% of their attack, strength, and defense, for example. Also, one player using Warrior Sap CAN make both of his opponents lose the 10%, but only if he switches back and forth between them every few hits, it seems.

[stonewall337]

Friends and I did some testing last night. The effects of the curses do NOT stack. Two players using Warrior Sap do not cause the victim to lose 20% of their attack, strength, and defense, for example. Also, one player using Warrior Sap CAN make both of his opponents lose the 10%, but only if he switches back and forth between them every few hits, it seems.

 

How, exactly, did you test this?

[AnthonyWL]

I can't see the new Prayer.. Maybe im just looking in the wrong place. :ohnoes:

[Obtaurian]

Friends and I did some testing last night. The effects of the curses do NOT stack. Two players using Warrior Sap do not cause the victim to lose 20% of their attack, strength, and defense, for example. Also, one player using Warrior Sap CAN make both of his opponents lose the 10%, but only if he switches back and forth between them every few hits, it seems.

 

How, exactly, did you test this?

 

Three of us tested them out in different combinations. For example, two of us would use sap warrior and attack the third, who reported a 10% decrease in his stats. Then one of us used sap warrior while the other two attacked. It only affected whoever the player using the curse attacked.

[stonewall337]

So, you tested against players. That doesn't prove that NPC's, who have different stats, will not show a further decrees from increased numbers of players using leaches/saps.

 

This is because leach prayers say that when activated, they automatically drain 10% of that stat, up to 25% after time.

[primadog]

PVM

 

The Deflect Spells acts like the Protect Prayers, with addition of some small amount of damage reflected (like a random ring of recoil).

 

The reductions act like the "curse spells" in the mage books. It only drains up to the maximum described by the prayer description. It does not stack with any other drain (curse spells, god spell effect, barrows effect, weapon special, etc), whichever that has highest deduction prevails.

 

Like normal prayers, the magic boosts do not affect magic damage, only magic accuracy.

[Obtaurian]

So, you tested against players. That doesn't prove that NPC's, who have different stats, will not show a further decrees from increased numbers of players using leaches/saps.

 

This is because leach prayers say that when activated, they automatically drain 10% of that stat, up to 25% after time.

 

Considering that the prayers most likely affect monsters in the same way they do players (with the exception that Turmoil treats high level monsters like maxed players,) we can reasonably assume that multiple players using the same sap or leech curse will not cause the monster to lose more than 10%-25% of their stats, respectively.

 

Unless you (or anyone else) can think of a way to prove otherwise, my small bit of testing is conclusive. Good luck, as I'm fairly certain that NPCs aren't about to show you their prayer menus.

[Robert_R]

Do the Deflect prayers only deflect damage that got through, or damage that it blocked?

 

Because if it deflects damage that it blocked.. good fight Kree'arra.

This should pretty much answer that question:

*Screen shot from knowledge base on jagex website

Damage from monsters can't get through protect/deflect prayers. Also, it only deflects some of the damage that would have been dealt.

[stonewall337]

So, you tested against players. That doesn't prove that NPC's, who have different stats, will not show a further decrees from increased numbers of players using leaches/saps.

 

This is because leach prayers say that when activated, they automatically drain 10% of that stat, up to 25% after time.

 

Considering that the prayers most likely affect monsters in the same way they do players (with the exception that Turmoil treats high level monsters like maxed players,) we can reasonably assume that multiple players using the same sap or leech curse will not cause the monster to lose more than 10%-25% of their stats, respectively.

 

Unless you (or anyone else) can think of a way to prove otherwise, my small bit of testing is conclusive. Good luck, as I'm fairly certain that NPCs aren't about to show you their prayer menus.

 

Kinda arrogant to assume that, since you really proved nothing. The boost/drain is invisible as well, so you didn't prove anything.

 

Actually, I can. When corpying, when numerous people were cursing, you could see the leech effect going against corp. To say this doesn't work would be tantamount to saying that SWH or DL only work one time by one player, and then they no longer reduce defense.

 

Not only that, but it is illogical to assume that players and monsters work the same way. For one, protect prayers work differently against them, as do other factors. The assumption that what occurs to one but not the other is not valid.

[Obtaurian]

So, you tested against players. That doesn't prove that NPC's, who have different stats, will not show a further decrees from increased numbers of players using leaches/saps.

 

This is because leach prayers say that when activated, they automatically drain 10% of that stat, up to 25% after time.

 

Considering that the prayers most likely affect monsters in the same way they do players (with the exception that Turmoil treats high level monsters like maxed players,) we can reasonably assume that multiple players using the same sap or leech curse will not cause the monster to lose more than 10%-25% of their stats, respectively.

 

Unless you (or anyone else) can think of a way to prove otherwise, my small bit of testing is conclusive. Good luck, as I'm fairly certain that NPCs aren't about to show you their prayer menus.

 

Kinda arrogant to assume that, since you really proved nothing. The boost/drain is invisible as well, so you didn't prove anything.

 

Actually, I can. When corpying, when numerous people were cursing, you could see the leech effect going against corp. To say this doesn't work would be tantamount to saying that SWH or DL only work one time by one player, and then they no longer reduce defense.

 

Not only that, but it is illogical to assume that players and monsters work the same way. For one, protect prayers work differently against them, as do other factors. The assumption that what occurs to one but not the other is not valid.

 

Are you aware of the neat little pop-up menu in your prayer tab that shows the stat drains/increases? That's how we knew what was happening. So, yes, we did prove something. It's an easy test. You should try it.

 

Your third point is null on account of Jagex telling us when a prayer acts differently against an NPC than it does against human players. In regards to Turmoil, for example, players asked about how fighting a monster like Jad would affect it. Mods told us that it would treat the NPC like a maxed player. Can you provide examples of prayers working differently against players than they do monsters that haven't been verified by Jagex?

 

EDIT: In regards to your second point, are you implying that I said at any time that leech prayers or sap do not work against NPCs at all? I have not said this. I argued that they do not STACK against NPCs, just as they do not stack against players.