I have recently discovered great goals, goals so great that i am willing to loose all over 80% of my GP for. What are the goals? It's secret. Do they have any benefits for me if i achieve them over other players? NO.

 

Then why? Achieving greatness in the way i play the game. I wanted 89 Herblore, but that's not my goals, just something i need. For that i estimated that i need to use 240M to get 89 Herblore.

 

I don't got that much. 240M for 72-89 Herblore...great. Yes, extreme potions drove them up...but price manipulators are taking advantage of this. Manipulating...

 

Not only would i loose insanely money, it also takes time buying the potions (That's what i heard, i may be wrong but it does not seem untrue). And while i have been F2P the cash pile i have, have gone downwards, becoming less valueable.

 

Now i have said this many times, price manipulation makes game quality poorer for players. If it's not price manipulation that made the price of Herblore would not have been so insanely wrong. Price manipulation put a end to my goals, which i was eagerly excited over that i would use up 80% of my GP, but even if i use 100% i can't afford it. So you ruined it for me.

 

So i would like to tell all you players who are responsible for ruining my goal:

Your pathetic.

You can't actually attribute increased demand due to an update to price manipulating. There happen to be hundreds, if not thousands, of players just like you, trying to buy their 89 herblore and 95 prayer. Price manipulations drive prices up, but the same forces of increased demand turn into increased supply and shoot the prices right back down. Long run demand, however, brings the prices up, something not brought about by merchanting clans.

 

Personally, I just bought 27k dragon bones for 95 prayer. Am I happy that I waited until now? Of course not. However, as more and more people try to pursue a higher prayer level, I recognize that prices will slowly increase, so I'm getting it while I still can. I would recommend just gritting your teeth, making the money, and buying the levels you want, because, if trends continue, prices for both prayer and herblore will continue to rise.

You can't actually attribute increased demand due to an update to price manipulating. There happen to be hundreds, if not thousands, of players just like you, trying to buy their 89 herblore and 95 prayer. Price manipulations drive prices up, but the same forces of increased demand turn into increased supply and shoot the prices right back down. Long run demand, however, brings the prices up, something not brought about by merchanting clans.

 

Personally, I just bought 27k dragon bones for 95 prayer. Am I happy that I waited until now? Of course not. However, as more and more people try to pursue a higher prayer level, I recognize that prices will slowly increase, so I'm getting it while I still can. I would recommend just gritting your teeth, making the money, and buying the levels you want, because, if trends continue, prices for both prayer and herblore will continue to rise.

That's a good point, and i get that, but i still hate price manipulators. And i was not member (school, had to focus), and because of the increase in Runescape economy (Artifacts) my GP value has gone down.

 

Again i loose 59M from getting 72-83 Herblore (and 240M total if i get 89). But i don't got 240M, and more importanly it's stressful considering i was hoping to play for Christmas holiday. But i give up on leveling herblore and achieving my goals (at this time), because of school and the cost of Herblore.

 

It won't work, so i won't become member. And here i had such great goals.

nvm

I got a crazy idea. Gather your own herbs, your own secondaries, buy your own vials, train the skill the way it was meant to be trained, and quit whining. How about that? <_<

I got a crazy idea. Gather your own herbs, your own secondaries, buy your own vials, train the skill the way it was meant to be trained, and quit whining. How about that? <_<

There is a reason why trade exists.

 

Specialization keeps the game in balance. Some people are runecrafters, some are slayers, some are dragon-killers, some are farmers, some are secondary gatherers. By trading between these different groups of people, we can make gameplay more efficient and more enjoyable. By telling him to gather everything himself, you are discouraging efficiency and the spirit of working together.

 

Buy those supplies! But don't get upset if other people begin to value their time more and sell their supplies for more.

There is only one solution that will stop price manipulators in their tracks. Jagex can freeze the prices of every single item in game.

 

Is this what you want?

I hope not.

 

Is this what will happen?

I doubt it

 

 

As long as there is a demand for experience, prices will remain high. Your best bet is to take your GP and put it to work, working for itself. Investing isn't hard to understand, and in runescape, the risk seems to be much less than IRL. If you can't beat them, join them.

Better yet, beat them at their own game. Price manipulators are in it for the short haul.... investing is in it for the long haul. Pick an item that was recently dumped. Buy it up. Hoard it. Next time it gets manipulated, help the manipulators get what they want - that item at a higher price.

I got a crazy idea. Gather your own herbs, your own secondaries, buy your own vials, train the skill the way it was meant to be trained, and quit whining. How about that? <_<

I got money to level it fast, because i have worked hard for the GP. I got school, and hoped to play in Christmas break. I doubt Herb farming for 14 days will easily give me herbs for 89 Herblore. Even in the holiday break i need to think of a assignment i got.

 

I wouldn't call it whining, how is losing 150M+ for 89 Herblore and for no great benefit and dealing with that equal whining? I don't got 240M, so that's what i am complaining. The fact that 72-89 Herblore costs 240M, is wrong. If it was a bit over 150M, i would not mind it, but 240M...is far to much for 17 levels.

whine whine whine.

 

You'll have a much easier time buying all those herbs anyways. In the many hours you'd have spent finding sellers, you can make a good deal of cash. And then, after that, you can sell the potions. Right now might not be the best time to sell potions, mind you, but you'll end up mitigating 2/3rds the price at the very least.

If Herblore is impossible to train, then don't train it.

 

It's not like Herblore is the only thing in the world.

Herblore is an expensive skill for everybody, pricey items are not so much the result of manipulators as the result of higher demand. Wait till the hype dies down and the prices fall somewhat. You are the victim of the bandwagon, there are plenty other players in your situation. If you don't have the cash for your dreams, it's your problem. To eliminate your problem, MAKE MORE CASH.

 

If you think prices will never lower, just look at some seeds lately, since the new prayer update, lots of players moved from herblore to bones. Herbs might not have fallen yet, but there were a couple seeds that got a downward pull. Rest assured that the next high lvl update will shift the market some more.

I got nothing against you, SirHemen - so don't take it personally. But it just sounds like your moaning because you don't have enough cash.

There has always been manipulation in the market so it's nothing new, it's just more apparent now we have graphs and the grand exchange.

 

I'm sure a player with your skills has plenty of other ways to make cash. You have max melees for example... go to gwd bosses for a week or try and get lucky at corp.

 

I haven't been playing much, but i did invest in items that went up with inflation - just so i'm still on par with everyone else. I get 40k herblore exp a week with MTK and that's how i've got my last 3 levels.

 

Sure, things go up and things do down. There are plenty of things to moan about Runescape - Just enjoy playing!

I got a crazy idea. Gather your own herbs, your own secondaries, buy your own vials, train the skill the way it was meant to be trained, and quit whining. How about that? <_<

There is a reason why trade exists.

 

Specialization keeps the game in balance. Some people are runecrafters, some are slayers, some are dragon-killers, some are farmers, some are secondary gatherers. By trading between these different groups of people, we can make gameplay more efficient and more enjoyable. By telling him to gather everything himself, you are discouraging efficiency and the spirit of working together.

 

Buy those supplies! But don't get upset if other people begin to value their time more and sell their supplies for more.

The spirit of working together? Ugh give me a break with that anti-individual collectivist crap. I wasn't talking about how to train the skill fastest or the most efficient. I'll tell you one thing, if you want efficieny in making pure profit, do everything yourself and you'll have all the cash you need.

 

I am encouraging self-sufficieny with a bit of profit on the backside.

The spirit of working together? Ugh give me a break with that anti-individual collectivist crap. I wasn't talking about how to train the skill fastest or the most efficient. I'll tell you one thing, if you want efficieny in making pure profit, do everything yourself and you'll have all the cash you need.

 

I am encouraging self-sufficieny with a bit of profit on the backside.

What is profit for, if it's not to get you to the goals you desire then?

I see nothing wrong with price manipulators. They're pursuing self interest just as you are. You want Herblore for money/the cape/fun/world domination who knows, it's in your self interest. They strictly seek money, what's wrong with that? They're taking advantage of you, and the many players like you, who don't want to "waste" time gathering they're own supplies so that you can achieve your goal in the quickest way possible, nothing wrong with that.

 

You think they're the only ones "hurting" the economy by manipulating? What about you? Are you not one of thousands contributing to rising costs by adding to the demand of an already low supply when you could be out getting them yourself? It's the same exact principle from opposite angles. I don't blame you or them, it's just how things work.

I see nothing wrong with price manipulators. They're pursuing self interest just as you are. You want Herblore for money/the cape/fun/world domination who knows, it's in your self interest. They strictly seek money, what's wrong with that? They're taking advantage of you, and the many players like you, who don't want to "waste" time gathering they're own supplies so that you can achieve your goal in the quickest way possible, nothing wrong with that.

 

You think they're the only ones "hurting" the economy by manipulating? What about you? Are you not one of thousands contributing to rising costs by adding to the demand of an already low supply when you could be out getting them yourself? It's the same exact principle from opposite angles. I don't blame you or them, it's just how things work.

Demand is not manipulation.

I see nothing wrong with price manipulators. They're pursuing self interest just as you are. You want Herblore for money/the cape/fun/world domination who knows, it's in your self interest. They strictly seek money, what's wrong with that? They're taking advantage of you, and the many players like you, who don't want to "waste" time gathering they're own supplies so that you can achieve your goal in the quickest way possible, nothing wrong with that.

 

You think they're the only ones "hurting" the economy by manipulating? What about you? Are you not one of thousands contributing to rising costs by adding to the demand of an already low supply when you could be out getting them yourself? It's the same exact principle from opposite angles. I don't blame you or them, it's just how things work.

Demand is not manipulation.

Thanks

The spirit of working together? Ugh give me a break with that anti-individual collectivist crap. I wasn't talking about how to train the skill fastest or the most efficient. I'll tell you one thing, if you want efficieny in making pure profit, do everything yourself and you'll have all the cash you need.

 

I am encouraging self-sufficieny with a bit of profit on the backside.

What is profit for, if it's not to get you to the goals you desire then?

To buy you whatever you wish to spend it on. If you want to use the profits from one skill to make another one easier, fine, but don't go complaining about how expensive it is to buy certain skills. Remember this. Outside of Construction and Summoning, every single skill can be trained in some way for *free.*

Hi I decided to join in and throw in my 2 cents.

 

I see nothing wrong with price manipulators. They're pursuing self interest just as you are. You want Herblore for money/the cape/fun/world domination who knows, it's in your self interest. They strictly seek money, what's wrong with that? They're taking advantage of you, and the many players like you, who don't want to "waste" time gathering they're own supplies so that you can achieve your goal in the quickest way possible, nothing wrong with that.

 

You think they're the only ones "hurting" the economy by manipulating? What about you? Are you not one of thousands contributing to rising costs by adding to the demand of an already low supply when you could be out getting them yourself? It's the same exact principle from opposite angles. I don't blame you or them, it's just how things work.

 

First of all I'm an f2p and I hate price manipulators. Here are my reasons why:

As stated above, people who use the GE are being taken advantage. That fact in itself is enough to pissed people off.

Pursuing self interest is generally not bad and it should be encourage because we live in a democratic society.

What the self interest is dictates whether it is frown upon, IE Tiger Woods' current situation.

 

 

As for not wanting to "waste my time" statement , I'm a lv 97 smither and I've been playing RS since 01 with about 3-4 yr off.

I recently estimated that I've spent an equivalent of about 71 days of my life lving up my smithing skill as independently as

possible. I'm also a lv 87 miner who has only powermined for about 30k xp. By being as self-sufficient as possible I've accumulated

an insane bank for any f2per, currently 211 million in bank worth. However I admit that I had some help and it reasonable to say

that with any goal going to lv 99 the help of others is required.

 

What my beef with price manipulators is that they act like a middle man who don't do any work except for the seconds required to put

in an order at the GE. They take a cut of the money off of the hardworking people for doing almost no work. With how the GE works

and trade limits as they are, it seems as if they have a monopoly on the resources and could charge max prices because they

have the consumers at their mercy.

 

Back in the old days where merchants were able to make money independently without the aid of others. They were only able

to influence their own prices because of the volumes they were operating with. The convenience they offered to consumers like

me usually warranted the high prices, though I still frown upon them usually tried to buy supplies from the workers directly.

 

I see nothing wrong with price manipulators. They're pursuing self interest just as you are. You want Herblore for money/the cape/fun/world domination who knows, it's in your self interest. They strictly seek money, what's wrong with that? They're taking advantage of you, and the many players like you, who don't want to "waste" time gathering they're own supplies so that you can achieve your goal in the quickest way possible, nothing wrong with that.

 

You think they're the only ones "hurting" the economy by manipulating? What about you? Are you not one of thousands contributing to rising costs by adding to the demand of an already low supply when you could be out getting them yourself? It's the same exact principle from opposite angles. I don't blame you or them, it's just how things work.

Demand is not manipulation.

 

Here's this point I want to about supply and demand. As we all know the general rule of supply and demand says that the market should reach an equilibrium. When one factor is rising, the other factor is pulled to restore equilibrium. However with price manipulators the shifts in the market are so sudden that no equilibrium can be establish thus consumer get taken advantage of. With most merchant clans today the new recruits are often taken advantage of and that explains why such clans are so active in recruitment because they need a fresh batch of suckers every time. IE the fellow in the tips market forum trying to buy brass keys.

 

However not all items follow the previous example of a volatile price index. For example rune ores prices have been steadily been increasing. Reasons for this increase? Definitely not because there has been an steady increase of high lv smithers but because of price manipulators. Because of these high prices you would think that there should be an equal pull for miners to mine rune ores for these higher prices. No. That is because human nature is to take the path of least resistance and why should any player put in the time and effort to do such a task to earn money when you can simply become a price manipulator themselves.

 

A prices manipulators have another drawback, one not readily seen. Because of the exaggerated promised of wealth of being a merchant, more and more people are trying their hand at it. This is bad for two reasons.

This is creating the mindset of being lazy for maximum returns. Because merchant clans are the current fad, it's drawing mostly f2p players to them and away from what they do best, gathering resources.

 

Also I accuse some merchant clans purposely luring in your average f2per (teenage guy) in to take advantage of. For example, gold bars. In my perspective they are generally low demand and high supply because of the great smithing xp that is obtained from smelting them. Crafting gold bars are not economical so most members try to sell them. By tricking f2pers into buying them at max, such members (not all, just the SOBs) minimizes their losses.

 

For f2pers to get screwed over and over by these clans and others, Jagex is potentially losing players and customers.

For P2p who want a fair level playing field, they probably end up playing some other mmorpg.

Reversal, I don't have much to dispute with that, except I would point out that merchanted are also middle men who skim what they can off the prices and make money doing no actual work. That is why I don't approve of merchanting as it contributes nothing.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Merchanters don't make money. They accumulate it.

^^^ Merchants have to study and analyse the prices of items they are planning to buy and then sell. This requires real "skill" in price prediction, economics and such, and often a bit of luck.

 

Price manipulators just get a truckload of people (and money), buy a ton of items to cause prices to tilt in their favour. As there are few of the items left in the market, the items' prices shoot sky-high. Then, they dump their items back into the GE and make a tidy profit by just using brute force. This doesn't take a [cabbage] bit of skill at all, and ruins the game for other players.

 

----

 

I don't have anything against merchants. They use perfectly legitimate means to earn money. They don't affect the market much, since most of the time they work alone. Whereas price manipulators just use brute force by buying up tons of products to drain the market of it, making use of very fundamental supply and demand to shoot the prices up, then they dump the item back into the GE when the prices are high, making a tidy profit, but at the same time affecting many players as the players cannot buy any more of the items.

 

But sometimes I agree that it isn't price manipulation driving up prices, but just plain demand of items. It's difficult to tell which is responsible, unless you have access to inside information telling you that it is a clan of rich manipulators all buying up the same product, instead of a random bunch of players that are not related buying items for some new quests, or whatever that requires the item.

^^^ Merchants have to study and analyse the prices of items they are planning to buy and then sell. This requires real "skill" in price prediction, economics and such, and often a bit of luck.

 

Price manipulators just get a truckload of people (and money), buy a ton of items to cause prices to tilt in their favour. As there are few of the items left in the market, the items' prices shoot sky-high. Then, they dump their items back into the GE and make a tidy profit by just using brute force. This doesn't take a [cabbage] bit of skill at all, and ruins the game for other players.

 

----

 

I don't have anything against merchants. They use perfectly legitimate means to earn money. They don't affect the market much, since most of the time they work alone. Whereas price manipulators just use brute force by buying up tons of products to drain the market of it, making use of very fundamental supply and demand to shoot the prices up, then they dump the item back into the GE when the prices are high, making a tidy profit, but at the same time affecting many players as the players cannot buy any more of the items.

 

But sometimes I agree that it isn't price manipulation driving up prices, but just plain demand of items. It's difficult to tell which is responsible, unless you have access to inside information telling you that it is a clan of rich manipulators all buying up the same product, instead of a random bunch of players that are not related buying items for some new quests, or whatever that requires the item.

Well said.

I agree with you on price manipulators, it is a little unfair that they can take advantage of the economy like that and there isn't really much we can do....but maybe we could start an anti-manipulator clan, that buys items that have recently gone up in price for the minimum, and maybe that could work?

To Quel I want to repeat, I don't approve of it. I don't view it as anything that should be against the rules, I simply don't personally find it right. All they do it collect other people's money. They contribute nothing to the community whatsoever.

To Quel I want to repeat, I don't approve of it. I don't view it as anything that should be against the rules, I simply don't personally find it right. All they do it collect other people's money. They contribute nothing to the community whatsoever.

 

We talking here doesn't contribute to society or community either. We slaughtering others in PvP worlds are wasting their hours of effort training to get cash to buy their armor or whatever. I could go on with tons of examples, but you get the point.

 

People are selfish. Most don't give a damn about "contributing to society". Most companies or other organisations donate to charities not sincerely but just to boost their public image.