KBD and Dragon Med made F2P?

[SeanyTheSailor]

In my time as a member i never fought kbd or KQ but i did fight the Giant Mole, I think this is more than reasonable for these reasons.

 

1.It is already in f2p area

2.it isn't very hard to kill

3.It is pretty fun

4.Since f2p has junk equip it should be tough thus adding to the fun of serious players

5.It could/would essentially be another minigame/thing to do with friends

 

Also if you give f2p a taste of something that used to be members i think they would be more tempted

 

Though i think dragon armor should remain members

 

Also if they did give them Giant Mole I don't think they should get KBD or KQ, that seems like too much.

[sees_all1]

It should be said once again that the KBD is not outdated. Prior to the release of draconic visage, that argument would have been accurate, nowadays you often have to fight for a lootshare world when going against him.

D meds being outdated is accurate though. Releasing better melee armpor in F2P is pretty short-sighted given the whole triangle argument.

 

@ Sees_all : Choose your battles wisely, that argument goes against your stand on balancing the F2P triangle (which I agree with you).

P.S. you lost a lot of credibility when you went off-topic and accused all P2Pers of whinning on some aspects of the game. Gaming is all about choice and being restricted by those choices. Pures choose to ignore def, they can't really complain about that. If summoning is too expensive for a player, he can't really complain if boss hunting is too hard. You can guess what I would say about F2Pers...

 

@ Sonic : You should look up what trolling means because it does not mean "arguying against"...

Langer, I honestly could care less if F2P was given a boss monster or not. I'd like to have the position that releasing these bosses would help P2P more than F2P, but it seems certain individuals can't get past the fact that this debate isn't about F2P getting moar stuff. I believe its well known on these forums how I feel about F2P's combat triangle, please excuse me if what I've said seems counter to it.

 

 

Here's a perfect example: Adamant arrows.

If the highest arrow F2Pers were allowed to use were mithril arrows, adamant arrows would be worth squat. There would be no reason to smith/fletch them, absolutely no demand. But since F2P is allowed to use adamant arrows, there is a huge demand, and a huge amount of profit available to P2Pers.

 

What do you mean by "huge amount of profit"? Last I checked, making arrows resulted as a loss....

EDIT: making them indeed results in a loss... around 10-15 gps per arrow... only good for xp.

Take a look at the price range for arrow heads again, its capped at 160. I suppose the prices of adamant bars have changed since I last checked, the demand is there yet Jagex won't let it go higher.

Another point though: that is extremely cheap xp for smithing. Combine the cheap xp with capped price of arrow heads, and you have what would've been an excellent item to smith.

[unkn0wnwarrior]

Also if they did give them Giant Mole I don't think they should get KBD or KQ, that seems like too much.

That should go without saying, but you are right. More than 1 boss, whether they be Giant Mole, KBD or a brand new monster, would be far too much. 1 boss would give a taste of boss hunting, drawing a few extra members.

 

But maybe they should focus on the combat triangle situation first.

[Youmu]

@ Sonic : You should look up what trolling means because it does not mean "arguying against"...

What I meant was they were being off-topic. Like, completely.

This is a debate about whether KBD and Dragon Med is suitable for F2P, not whether F2P should get more content or not.

 

(If you haven't noticed already, Erewhon's post earlier on was already deleted because of this.)

 

And why didn't I mention Demonicsushi...

[Umoria]

Well I think I follow your thoughts good.

 

Basiclly you mean that F2P (and its confirmed) isn't a demo, but it's the game wich you can expand by becoming member.

And since F2P is the basic of P2P, some things can be made F2P, because in P2P they have lost there power.

 

One of them is without a doubt the dragon med. But compare it to rune full helmet, the best there is in F2P. Is it significant better? Is it good to add to F2P? Is adding it to F2P, make F2P any better?

I do think a bossmonster such as the Giant Mole can be made F2P, without adding drops significant. Such things as the claws and skins, can be traded for birdsnest in P2P, but in F2P exchange them for exp or money. Or exchange it for a exp lamp.

KBD for F2P isn't much of a thing I would like to see. In P2P it's a challenging monster. Even more challenging if you compare it to the mole, wich is a giant teddybear if you have the right stats and equipment.

 

As far as the potions go, you can add it the maple way. You can buy it and use it, but can't make it yourself. Well, compare it to green d'leather. Best F2P ranging gear, but you can't make it yourself.

But then it's only for strength, attack and defence potion.

 

So to your question: KBD made F2P? NO :thumbdown:

Dragon Med made F2P: perhaps

Giant mole F2P: YES :thumbup:

[sees_all1]

One of them is without a doubt the dragon med. But compare it to rune full helmet, the best there is in F2P. Is it significant better? Is it good to add to F2P? Is adding it to F2P, make F2P any better?

The same question, does adding it to F2P make F2P any better, can be asked of trimmed and god armour. Technically the stats are worse than they are for fully rune (in the magic category anyway, everything else the same), yet players still want to buy it.

Even if a dragon med had the same stats as a full rune helmet, people would still want to buy it. I'd estimate that there would be a high enough increase in demand to make the dragon med go up to 200k+ in price simply by adding it to F2P.

[langer]

@ Sonic : You should look up what trolling means because it does not mean "arguying against"...

What I meant was they were being off-topic. Like, completely.

This is a debate about whether KBD and Dragon Med is suitable for F2P, not whether F2P should get more content or not.

 

(If you haven't noticed already, Erewhon's post earlier on was already deleted because of this.)

 

And why didn't I mention Demonicsushi...

 

No I didn't notice that, I rarely go back to previous posts except for quoting.... I agree erewhon might have been off-topic. His arguments may or may not be valid in this topic, but he should have made it more relevant to the topic.

 

There have been lots of valid arguments on both sides in this topic, even though I think it won't happen, I would stand to gain more than the common player with an update like this seeing as I have 2,5k d meds sitting in my bank waiting for a rise in price or to simply be alched.

[Umoria]

One of them is without a doubt the dragon med. But compare it to rune full helmet, the best there is in F2P. Is it significant better? Is it good to add to F2P? Is adding it to F2P, make F2P any better?

The same question, does adding it to F2P make F2P any better, can be asked of trimmed and god armour. Technically the stats are worse than they are for fully rune (in the magic category anyway, everything else the same), yet players still want to buy it.

Even if a dragon med had the same stats as a full rune helmet, people would still want to buy it. I'd estimate that there would be a high enough increase in demand to make the dragon med go up to 200k+ in price simply by adding it to F2P.

 

Well I know of that question. But when you browse the Help and Advice forum, you see people asking what looks good with something. And trimmed armour is just a show off.

God armour is a show off too, mainly because people see that you have some money to spend in F2P, so they don't care about the stats.

 

I do think people will buy the d med if it was introduced in F2P. There is no room for arguying about that, but is adding it to F2P, make F2P better? Or is it just makes P2P better, mostly because d med drop means more money when you sell it?

[DemonicSushi]

@ Sonic : You should look up what trolling means because it does not mean "arguying against"...

What I meant was they were being off-topic. Like, completely.

This is a debate about whether KBD and Dragon Med is suitable for F2P, not whether F2P should get more content or not.

 

(If you haven't noticed already, Erewhon's post earlier on was already deleted because of this.)

 

And why didn't I mention Demonicsushi...

 

Lol?

 

is suitable for F2P = F2P should get more content

 

You just contradicted yourself and Yes this topic is about wether F2P should get more or not... this should really be in rants..

[Danqazmlp]

Actually this is about whether Dragon Med and the KBD are suitable for F2P. Other items are irrelevant unless used in comparison. This subject is not about whether F2P should get more content than that.

 

Please remember, this is the Debate club not General discussion. It is for constructive debates, so if your post does not add anything, it should not be posted.

[langer]

Actually this is about whether Dragon Med and the KBD are suitable for F2P. Other items are irrelevant unless used in comparison. This subject is not about whether F2P should get more content than that.

 

Please remember, this is the Debate club not General discussion. It is for constructive debates, so if your post does not add anything, it should not be posted.

 

Indeed but this topic should also be treated with the bigger picture in mind. In theory, all P2P items go could to F2P for the simple reason that they work in a similar context --> P2P.

[Kiriyama]

Langer, it'd be easier to deal with the matter at hand, namely the KBD and D Med becoming F2P.

 

If you want to debate about whether all P2P items could go F2P, then start a new debate for that.

 

Now, to get the ball rolling on this again..

 

I disagree with those who are more in favour of the the Mole becoming F2P. Sure, it's an easier boss, but that's the reason why I am against it. It's too easy.

 

Sure, it'd be harder in F2P, due to lack of prayer potions and stat boosting potions, however, it's still a fairly easy boss with the F2P limitations. Of course, I'd only be in favour of giving them candles as the light source, making the tinderbox necessary. Yet, with the altar in Falador Castle now, it'd be easy to run back and forward restoring prayer.

 

KBD, on the other hand, we'd either have to add antipoison potions to F2P (regular ones, and they can only be bought from other players) or remove his poisoning attack.

 

The KBD would only drop big bones, no hides, and all members items as drops would be removed. Keeping the D Med P2P, and, in essence, serving as an advertisement for P2P saying "If you liked this, greater rewards and a slightly easier battle await if you upgrade for $5 per month."

 

Actually trying a boss monster might want them to try more, which, of course, means upgrading.

[DemonicSushi]

[hide]

Langer, it'd be easier to deal with the matter at hand, namely the KBD and D Med becoming F2P.

 

If you want to debate about whether all P2P items could go F2P, then start a new debate for that.

 

Now, to get the ball rolling on this again..

 

I disagree with those who are more in favour of the the Mole becoming F2P. Sure, it's an easier boss, but that's the reason why I am against it. It's too easy.

 

Sure, it'd be harder in F2P, due to lack of prayer potions and stat boosting potions, however, it's still a fairly easy boss with the F2P limitations. Of course, I'd only be in favour of giving them candles as the light source, making the tinderbox necessary. Yet, with the altar in Falador Castle now, it'd be easy to run back and forward restoring prayer.

 

KBD, on the other hand, we'd either have to add antipoison potions to F2P (regular ones, and they can only be bought from other players) or remove his poisoning attack.

 

The KBD would only drop big bones, no hides, and all members items as drops would be removed. Keeping the D Med P2P, and, in essence, serving as an advertisement for P2P saying "If you liked this, greater rewards and a slightly easier battle await if you upgrade for $5 per month."

 

Actually trying a boss monster might want them to try more, which, of course, means upgrading.

[/hide]

 

A pathetic version of the P2P Kbd wont make an F2P pay 5$ anymore then they would have before... I like dragon items to be members and i would hate to see Jagex giving up d med to F2P, showing how weak they are when money is at stake...

Edited January 26, 2010 by Laikrob
Added hide tags. Long quote in the post after the quoted post isn't needed. :)

[Kiriyama]

Demonic, how about you actually give some reasoned argument?

 

I'm having trouble seeing your point..

[langer]

Langer, it'd be easier to deal with the matter at hand, namely the KBD and D Med becoming F2P.

 

If you want to debate about whether all P2P items could go F2P, then start a new debate for that.

 

Now, to get the ball rolling on this again..

 

I disagree with those who are more in favour of the the Mole becoming F2P. Sure, it's an easier boss, but that's the reason why I am against it. It's too easy.

 

Sure, it'd be harder in F2P, due to lack of prayer potions and stat boosting potions, however, it's still a fairly easy boss with the F2P limitations. Of course, I'd only be in favour of giving them candles as the light source, making the tinderbox necessary. Yet, with the altar in Falador Castle now, it'd be easy to run back and forward restoring prayer.

 

KBD, on the other hand, we'd either have to add antipoison potions to F2P (regular ones, and they can only be bought from other players) or remove his poisoning attack.

 

The KBD would only drop big bones, no hides, and all members items as drops would be removed. Keeping the D Med P2P, and, in essence, serving as an advertisement for P2P saying "If you liked this, greater rewards and a slightly easier battle await if you upgrade for $5 per month."

 

Actually trying a boss monster might want them to try more, which, of course, means upgrading.

 

Agreed, anyway all arguments for or against have already been said either in this thread or Skillscape in F2P and Why Can't f2P have... Let's attack the matter at hand indeed.

 

I like what you propose, not so much new content, but actually testing what is boss hunting and "advertising" P2P giving incentives to join. I wouldn't mind if they could get un-equipable and un-tradeable D meds in F2P only available via P2P...another incentive. It's unlikely that Jagex will do this though.

[Kiriyama]

Yeah, I see it as unlikely to add in a member's item as a drop, again, same reasoning as Gnomecopters, blatant advertising.

 

Throughout all the F2P game, there is some form of advertising of P2P, some subtle, others, more obvious. (Grand Exchange, skill guides upon level up..)

 

If anything, Jagex could add a new armour drop to the KBD, such as a helm, with the same stats as a rune helm, it would be untradeable, however, it just adds in a small, cosmetic item, that doesn't give any advantages overall, aside from looking different.

 

If F2P is really a game in it's own right, then it should serve as a proper taster for the expansion (well, full game, since expansion packs add more content to a game, therefore, you need them for the full game.) which, at the moment, it can do, however it is missing one, rather important part, boss hunting. The highest leveled thing in F2P is Revenants, which count more as annoyances and regular monsters than bosses, and they're useless to kill anyway.

 

The highest level monster that has any good drops is the Greater Demon in F2P, correct? Or maybe Cockroach soldiers.

 

Anyway, the point is, the KBD would still have drops such as 100 yew logs and 100 silver ore, giving them some of it's good drops, whilst it would not be efficient to kill it for these items, it'd still be a nice bonus from time to time, since it is probably worth more than you'd use in supplies over time, not a significant amount more to make it worth killing to make a profit, but enough to cover the costs unless you die often.

[DemonicSushi]

Demonic, how about you actually give some reasoned argument?

 

I'm having trouble seeing your point..

 

My argument is that, as a P2P, i would not like to see D med being F2P, and since Jagex would make a poll for the matter i believe that most of the P2P would vote No anyways so really there is no point in arguing this unless were talking about a hypothetical matter?

[Guest jrhairychest]

Its simple then. Create a boss monster that is unique to F2P. That way members keep their stuff, F2P get a new boss, Career F2Pers cannot moan about they cannot have so everyone is happy. I'd say using things such as a broken combat triangle belong in another post or in the rants forums.

 

I would also say to the F2Pers on here is beware of greeks bearing gifts. There may be quite a number of P2P that support moving members content into F2P, but take a look at their motives (evident in many posts). Its mostly about self-profit and not in the interests of F2P or bringing in new members.

[Kiriyama]

Everything in Debate Club is hypothetical, you idiot.

 

Frankly, your "argument" is on the basis of "Waah! I don't want to give F2P anything."

 

Actually wait, you only pay $5 a month, and, according to you, that's an insignificant amount, so why complain?

 

You've been unable to suggest other solutions, or even meet the idea halfway, you don't need to agree with giving F2P the D Med, which is what you seem to be [bleep]ing about.

 

Jr, developing a new boss for F2P would take more time than just altering the code on an existing monster, and I'd rather give them a slightly modified KBD, and have the rest of the time that would have been spent on developing your F2P boss spent working on P2P content.

[Guest jrhairychest]

Everything in Debate Club is hypothetical, you idiot.

 

Again so classy. Its a real shame you don't practice what you preach in trolling/flaming. Your parents must be very proud.

 

 

Frankly, your "argument" is on the basis of "Waah! I don't want to give F2P anything."

 

Actually wait, you only pay $5 a month, and, according to you, that's an insignificant amount, so why complain?

 

You've been unable to suggest other solutions, or even meet the idea halfway, you don't need to agree with giving F2P the D Med, which is what you seem to be [bleep]ing about.

 

Jr, developing a new boss for F2P would take more time than just altering the code on an existing monster, and I'd rather give them a slightly modified KBD, and have the rest of the time that would have been spent on developing your F2P boss spent working on P2P content.

Uh uh. That sort of solution would solve the boss problem that posters want to see. This is actually giving F2P something of their own so your argument is completely flawed. The other solutions, which were posted by myself and others were either pay for members or a trial monster. Nobody in F2P wanted to know or discuss it because they were after a permanent solution without having to join members. Simple. It also stops members trying to rake in profits at the expense of F2Pers.

 

I'd say design coding time was up to Jagex. After all I'm told just how valuable F2Pers are so theres no problem with that. Jagex apply themselves whenever they get the chance so if it takes a little longer so be it.

 

Oh and if this is hypothetical, then I can suggest anything I want. And there isn't anything you can do about it. :wink:

[DemonicSushi]

Everything in Debate Club is hypothetical, you idiot.

 

Gratz on the Trolling... that really helps develop this topic doesn't it?

 

Actually wait, you only pay $5 a month, and, according to you, that's an insignificant amount, so why complain?

 

Excuse me are you telling Me to stop complaining? All your posts have been complaints about F2P not being what we say it is, and if this topic is indeed hypothetical then as jr.hairychest said i can say watever the heck i want...

[sees_all1]

The other solutions, which were posted by myself and others were either pay for members or a trial monster.

The solution to pay $5 a month isn't a "solution", because it doesn't address the OP's concerns:

1. The dragon med is a worthless drop.

2. The KBD, Giant Mole are outdated monsters, partly because of valueless "rare" drops, and partly because newer armour makes them no challenge.

3. F2P doesn't have a boss monster, so F2Pers can't relate to P2P boss hunting, nor can they utilize lootshare worlds.

 

Paying $5 a month so that I can join members only to ignore outdated monsters doesn't solve any of these.

 

Developing a completely new boss monster solely for F2P would be costly, and wouldn't fix the fact that the dragon med is worthless, nor would it fix the fact that there are perfectly good monsters already developed in F2P areas that aren't being used because they're no challenge.

 

If you read the OP, you'd understand that, and we wouldn't be calling you a troll. You'd also have saved a lot of thread space and time.

 

 

It also stops members trying to rake in profits at the expense of F2Pers.

It seems no one here has a problem with that. I don't mind the fact that trimmed and god armour are only obtainable on P2P, and cost much much more than rune armour because of F2P. What Jagex needs to do is create more demand for the dragon med. The easiest way to do that is to add another few million people to buy it.

 

 

 

Off topic: I found this handy feature under My Settings, Profile, Manage Ignored Users. You get the idea.

[Guest jrhairychest]

The solution to pay $5 a month isn't a "solution", because it doesn't address the OP's concerns:

1. The dragon med is a worthless drop.

2. The KBD, Giant Mole are outdated monsters, partly because of valueless "rare" drops, and partly because newer armour makes them no challenge.

3. F2P doesn't have a boss monster, so F2Pers can't relate to P2P boss hunting, nor can they utilize lootshare worlds.

 

1. Opinion, not fact. It’s still in use. Why would the OP be interested in such items unless he was interested in their values because he wanted to make a substantial profit from it.

2. Again opinion. These monsters can also be updated at any time by Jagex. It does not require moving them to F2P to do this.

3. Creating one for F2P would solve this problem for the reasons I’ve outlined earlier.

 

 

Paying $5 a month so that I can join members only to ignore outdated monsters doesn't solve any of these.

You're not interested in joining P2P though. That is pretty clear.

 

Developing a completely new boss monster solely for F2P would be costly, and wouldn't fix the fact that the dragon med is worthless, nor would it fix the fact that there are perfectly good monsters already developed in F2P areas that aren't being used because they're no challenge.

 

If you read the OP, you'd understand that, and we wouldn't be calling you a troll. You'd also have saved a lot of thread space and time.

 

Again your own opinions for the dmed. People only judge a dmed because of its low value, not because of its usefulness so let’s get these facts straight. Let Jagex be the judge of how much it costs and whether it’s worthwhile. After all you’ve said on many occasions on how much you ‘contribute’ so are you now saying you’re not important enough for your own update? I've read the OP and can see the motives behind it, so I'll leave you guys to do the trolling/flaming/little boy tantrums.

 

It seems no one here has a problem with that. I don't mind the fact that trimmed and god armour are only obtainable on P2P, and cost much much more than rune armour because of F2P. What Jagex needs to do is create more demand for the dragon med. The easiest way to do that is to add another few million people to buy it.

So you’re not so bothered that much of P2P will only value it as a money spinner rather than what it does for F2P itself? Very contradictory. Do you really think the price will rocket because there’s only so much cash in F2P compared to P2P so there won’t be that many who could afford such an item so the price wouldn’t rise that much anyway.

 

 

Off topic: I found this handy feature under My Settings, Profile, Manage Ignored Users. You get the idea.

You’re assuming you’re important enough for me to care ;)

[Erewhon2]

Firstly in response to sonic3190's post:

(If you haven't noticed already, Erewhon's post earlier on was already deleted because of this.)

I would like to point out that I have not had any posts 'deleted' no idea why you would think that. Also I may have varied my debate a little but I have remained on topic with regard to disagreeing to the KBD being moved to F2P, for all the reasons stated previously. Not that anyone else ever goes 'off topic' :huh:

 

The other solutions, which were posted by myself and others were either pay for members or a trial monster.

The solution to pay $5 a month isn't a "solution", because it doesn't address the OP's concerns:

1. The dragon med is a worthless drop.

2. The KBD, Giant Mole are outdated monsters, partly because of valueless "rare" drops, and partly because newer armour makes them no challenge.

3. F2P doesn't have a boss monster, so F2Pers can't relate to P2P boss hunting, nor can they utilize lootshare worlds.

 

Paying $5 a month so that I can join members only to ignore outdated monsters doesn't solve any of these.

 

Developing a completely new boss monster solely for F2P would be costly, and wouldn't fix the fact that the dragon med is worthless, nor would it fix the fact that there are perfectly good monsters already developed in F2P areas that aren't being used because they're no challenge.

 

If you read the OP, you'd understand that, and we wouldn't be calling you a troll. You'd also have saved a lot of thread space and time.

 

 

It also stops members trying to rake in profits at the expense of F2Pers.

It seems no one here has a problem with that. I don't mind the fact that trimmed and god armour are only obtainable on P2P, and cost much much more than rune armour because of F2P. What Jagex needs to do is create more demand for the dragon med. The easiest way to do that is to add another few million people to buy it.

 

 

 

Off topic: I found this handy feature under My Settings, Profile, Manage Ignored Users. You get the idea.

 

 

I would point out again that I think the KBD is still a worthwhile monster and just because a few think otherwise doesn't mean it is worthless. And as has been said, some of the P2P players who are for this appear to have dubious reasons that are purely self motivated rather than benefiting either community.

 

I do wish to ask why there is such resistance to becoming a member and getting all the benefits that come with it (I agree with Demonicsushi on this one), I thoroughly enjoyed F2P when I first discovered RS, but eventually became frustrated at the limitations and so became a member...end of story. I think these issues have become a lot more complex than they need to be, if Jagex wants to develop something for F2P thats up to them, and whatever the expense, they have done so before. But it should be separate from passing stuff to F2P because some P2P players don't find it challenging enough but have not considered the long term implications.

 

@Langer....by the way I'm female lol!

[Kiriyama]

Everything in Debate Club is hypothetical, you idiot.

 

Gratz on the Trolling... that really helps develop this topic doesn't it?

 

Actually wait, you only pay $5 a month, and, according to you, that's an insignificant amount, so why complain?

 

Excuse me are you telling Me to stop complaining? All your posts have been complaints about F2P not being what we say it is, and if this topic is indeed hypothetical then as jr.hairychest said i can say watever the heck i want...

 

Jr's interpretation of a hypothetical situation is somewhat flawed.

 

You see, in a hypothetical situation, there are set parameters to which we must follow. Now, you cannot suggest anything you want in this one, because we are given quite clear parameters to abide by.

 

You've made your suggestion that they should get members, however, that's your only argument. It's been said before, this thread has the potential for a good debate, however, people like you insist upon spoiling it. And I wasn't trolling, I was merely making an observation based on how you are acting.

 

Jr, will you please explain your stance, you don't want to give F2P the KBD, yet you're okay with the idea of development of a new boss geared towards F2P? That is a rather..Unusual stance to have. With the time used on the design phases, working out the drops, where it is located, perhaps even adding a new area for it, which would require designing itself.. That time could be used to develop new content for P2P. That stance could only make sense to you yourself.