Hagge Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 A few months back I made a suggestions on the RSOF to have the KBD, KQ and Giant Mole made F2P along with the Dragon Armour pieces dropped by these monsters. Admittedly, with the main thought on the KBD and the Dragon Med Helm.This topic can be found here. The discussion I wish to raise is how and why you think this would affect the game, the content involved, and the community. Now, for those who don't wish to read through my entire post on the RSOF a short recap of the suggestions would probably be useful, so to sum most of it up; Alot of players have been asking for F2P boss monsters over the past year, partly to legitimize having lootshare available on F2P worlds. That being said, and me being the practical person I am, I though: "Hey, why waste valuable content development time on making a brand new boss for F2P?" So I put two and two together and made four, or in other words, I realised how purposeless many of our older boss monsters are now. Low value drops, and new powerful armours and weapons turn these once mighty giants into something most of us would choose to do for our slayer task, because they give more xp. And the Dragon Med which once was the best helmet ingame, with a street value of 5m+ (Back in the days when 5m was ALOT, yes I'm talking about classic) has been reduced to an item you buy at minimum in the GE to high alch for a few gp profit. My solution to the problem was that these monsters, with a slight adjustment to the drop tables such as dropping big bones instead of dragon bones in F2P, and not dropping herbs or dragonhides, would be made available to F2P players. This would increase the size of the market and thus the demand, whilst keeping the supply more or less the same, as without antipoision and antifire potions it would require large teams in F2P to kill them, making P2P still the main supply for these items. Giving the item some value and use again, as the best F2P helmet. Yet it would hardly affect the combat triangle in F2P, as the added defence bonus is only +4. (Correct me on this if I'm wrong) And it would thus make the monsters worthwhile going to again both on F2P and P2P, it would give the items back their use, it would make most F2P players happy for another half year or so. That would probably explain most of the initial idea, however, not surprisingly I recieved alot of criticism for suggesting this with posts such as: No. Just no. F2P is a demo of the full version, so why should we (the paying members) give F2P OUR content? They should really get nothing good (I have nothing against F2P by the way). On the other hand I also recieved alot of support as time went on, even grabbed the attention of a J-Mod. But with time the topic has dwindled down, and I've been working too much to keep it up.Now here comes the point, I'm thinking of re-vamping it by making a more structured and researched presentation of the idea, but to do that I need some help. In form of a constructive discussion of the subject, thus why I created this topic.I hope to see people lay out their pro's and con's of the issue, and will be doing my best to answer and further discuss the subject. Facts: F2P is intended as a game, not as a demo. (Stated by Mod MMG)Creating BRAND NEW content requires ALOT of development timeThe Dragon Med Helm Alch Price is 60kThe Dragon Med Helm GE selling price has been laying steadily around 59k-70k for the past two yearsThe KBD was the first boss monster introduced to the game in classic (Not counting Elvarg)There are currently more then 1.8 million players with 60+ Defence if you include F2P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xmatt105 Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 heres the solution Locking On- rsc lvl 63 plate purers2 lvl 85 zerker pure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3hitm4g3u Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 FTP definately doesn't need more armour. And despite what a J-mod said; FTP is clearly a Demo of PTP. Only someone without a lot of common sense would think differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junka666 Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 FTP definately doesn't need more armour. And despite what a J-mod said; FTP is clearly a Demo of PTP. Only someone without a lot of common sense would think differently.You, sir, are the one who has no common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagge Posted January 3, 2010 Author Share Posted January 3, 2010 FTP definately doesn't need more armour. And despite what a J-mod said; FTP is clearly a Demo of PTP. Only someone without a lot of common sense would think differently. No offence, but this J-Mod in question happens to be the CEO of the company. If he don't consider it a Demo, I reckon we can assume that is the policy of the company aswell. And if anything, P2P would be considered an expansion pack considering the history of the game. I was hoping for something more constructive and less stereotypical to be posted... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K4ylan Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 KBD and Mole are reasonable. Kalphite Queen, however, should not be F2P. She is located in past the Shantay Pass, which is members only, and frankly, she is just too difficult to fight with only full rune/green d'hide with a maple shortbow. Oh yea, not to mention no prayer potions or attack potions. The bad news is that the dragon med will sky-rocket, while the corrupt dragon med will sink down to high-alch price. There's a lot to consider here, but I support it. ~~~The Harpy List~~~Harpy Facts~~~It's Super Effective~~~The Beginning~~~Harpy Therapy Center~~~Alg~~~Jedi Harpy~~~Rohirrim~~~Attenuation~~~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kata_Phfract__the_slayer Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 im a member, and i dont see why this should not be added in the game, but if a boss was added to f2p then i think the gient mole is the best option, then kbd second.but overall its a very good idea. keep the d bones as the drop, f2p needs something more to train then big bones. prices will go up a bit (from the non-inflation value) but that will help member dragon killers more then anything. problems.black d hide, you could replace it with a difrent 100% drop (like gp of its midle ge value) or let them have it but not be of any use.giveing f2p another melee item but no other mage/range items.the forums will probably crash with all the spam about how it was a mestake :P (assumeing it does become f2p)will be too hard, killing the kbd with rune, no anti's, and no stat restores. that's compirable to soloing the corpal beast. it can be done but good luck not dieing, and good luck makeing money.(can be fixed by giveing f2p postions, see below, and thats a help to members. lol a disadvantage turned in to an advanatge!) addvantages.maybe jagex could give f2p some of the useless potions that no one uses in memebrs. normal attack, normal stat restore, anti poison ect. as that will positively efect the price of the potions and maybe (for a few levels) herbelore will be profitable! in the same way that fletching is only member but half the stuff made is used by f2p. see anyone complaining about that?this will solidly confirm that f2p is not a demo, and have (close to) the same rights as members.faster prayer xp for f2p, i cant think of a way that it would dis-advantage f2p. also i would like to point out this. i find this funny becouse its just total giberish. (side note, how do i add quote boxes?)"No. Just no. F2P is a demo of the full version, so why should we (the paying members) give F2P OUR content? They should really get nothing good (I have nothing against F2P by the way)." f2p is not a demo, its not giveing f2p "our content" as there is no such thing in the fact that its just something that is member not that it belongs to members, and then he says f2p should get nuthing good and then says he has nuthing agaisnt them. :wall: ok with all that out of the way, i have to say that the more i think about this, the more i have to say YES! awesome idea in just about every way. I'm a Brony and proud of it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3hitm4g3u Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 FTP definately doesn't need more armour. And despite what a J-mod said; FTP is clearly a Demo of PTP. Only someone without a lot of common sense would think differently. No offence, but this J-Mod in question happens to be the CEO of the company. If he don't consider it a Demo, I reckon we can assume that is the policy of the company aswell. And if anything, P2P would be considered an expansion pack considering the history of the game. I was hoping for something more constructive and less stereotypical to be posted...Yeah, I thought it was MMG who said that but you said J-mod in your original post and I couldn't be bothered to look it up to confirm. Just because he told you something, doesn't mean it's true. Actually look at the game and you can see FTP is nothing more than a demo. PTP is clearly so much more than an expansion pack, it's the whole game. But I can't see how this is relevant to your suggestion, I was merely commenting on one of your comments. As I said before, FTP is in no need for more armour. FTP definately doesn't need more armour. And despite what a J-mod said; FTP is clearly a Demo of PTP. Only someone without a lot of common sense would think differently.You, sir, are the one who has no common sense. Thank you for this constructive criticism based on your vast first-hand experience of knowing me. Or wait, is this the first time I've ever spoken to you? Hmm.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Kurity Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 Seems like a good idea. Its not like anyone will unsubscribe because f2p got a dragon med. O.O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coulton Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 It is a great thought for sure. F2p-ers need something new to bite on and keep their interest. When they see how fun boss killing is more of them will upgrade to members. It would be much harder to kill KBD in F2P with only rune weapons and armor. Not to mention something would have to be done about the KBD's fire breath and poison. With no anti-fire potions and no anti-poisons those trying to kill it are helpless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youmu Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 I support the Giant Mole and KBD, but no Kalphites. The reason being that it is in a P2P area, and although melee equipment is decent, range and magic are bad. Since she uses prayer... For the KBD, the F2P version can have poison eliminated, just like revenants. For the giant mole, make the dungeon enterable without a light source. BlogTrimmed | Master Quester | Final BossBoss pets: Bombi | Shrimpy | Ellie | Tz-Rek Jad | Karil the Bobbled | Mega Ducklings120s: Dungeoneering | Invention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiniCale Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 definetly not dragon med becoming f2p because dragon is a member thing a boss monster for f2p would be good but kbd doesnt drop that good stuff except visage which isnt f2p and moles main drop is skins and claws which u trade in for birds nests or sell and birds nests and seeds in them are p2p so mole cant really be f2p either Check out my Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaida23 Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 Actually look at the game and you can see FTP is nothing more than a demo. PTP is clearly so much more than an expansion pack, it's the whole game.Why is it P2P'ers continue to declare that "F2P is a demo"? If you took all, and I mean *all*, of the member's content out of the game it would stand on it's own and still be great. Despite what you might think, Jagex's official stance is that P2P is merely an expansion. As I said before, FTP is in no need for more armour.And what of the suggestion to give F2P larger, "boss", monsters? This isn't just about whether or not F2P should have Dragon Meds, it's about adding new content to the free game without expending time and money developing entirely new creatures or items. Personally, I think it's a great idea. F2P combat has been stagnating for a while now and is in serious need of updating (although, admittedly, the Strongholds of Security and Safety were excellent additions). Check out my blog to read the Adventures of a Big Damn (F2P) Hero. THE place for all free players to connect, hang out and talk about how awesome it is to be F2P. So, Kaida is the real version of every fictional science-badass? That explains a lot, actually... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3hitm4g3u Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 Actually look at the game and you can see FTP is nothing more than a demo. PTP is clearly so much more than an expansion pack, it's the whole game.Why is it P2P'ers continue to declare that "F2P is a demo"? If you took all, and I mean *all*, of the member's content out of the game it would stand on it's own and still be great. Despite what you might think, Jagex's official stance is that P2P is merely an expansion. If you took all of PTP out the game would be dead. If you took FTP out nobody would really care (except the members who like FTP pking/clan wars and the people who can't afford PTP). The only use of FTP is to give players a taste of runescape before they purchase the full game and that's the only part of FTP that would be missed if FTP was taken out. As I said before, FTP is in no need for more armour.And what of the suggestion to give F2P larger, "boss", monsters? This isn't just about whether or not F2P should have Dragon Meds, it's about adding new content to the free game without expending time and money developing entirely new creatures or items. Personally, I think it's a great idea. F2P combat has been stagnating for a while now and is in serious need of updating (although, admittedly, the Strongholds of Security and Safety were excellent additions). I definately agree with the new FTP bosses and they should definately happen (I'm a little surprised they haven't allready). I don't think FTP should get hand me down bosses from PTP like kbd but rather it's own unique boss/es. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thisbenathan Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 i've said before that i think KBD should be brought out in f2p worlds. with the addition of new monsters in members, it's begun to lose it's magnitude in p2p. plus i see a monster of that level giving incentive for more people to buy membership. i also think the giant mole is a pretty good idea. i wouldn't put the kalphites into f2p seeing how that's a p2p area. 2/3 of the monsters you mentioned are bother great ideas in my opinion. on the matter of armour, i don't know i'd have to think about that. this all coming from someone who has been a member before but due to school i've been f2p for over a year now. Downfall since day 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zachneap Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 The Kbd is a classic Runescape boss. He came around before all these high hitting things came into play. but releasing different versions of him for f2p isn't really a solution. F2p needs a boss monster to truly be a demo. to merely add the kbd is not worth the troubles it provides... namely how to balance him into a f2p form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtaurian Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Interesting thread. I'd say that making the KBD and Giant Mole f2p isn't such a bad idea. Obviously a few quirks would have to be worked out, but I don't think it'd be a bad thing for f2p to have dragon medium helms and a couple easy boss monsters. Could bring more bird's nests into the game if they were allowed to sell them. EDIT: Actually look at the game and you can see FTP is nothing more than a demo. PTP is clearly so much more than an expansion pack, it's the whole game.Why is it P2P'ers continue to declare that "F2P is a demo"? If you took all, and I mean *all*, of the member's content out of the game it would stand on it's own and still be great. Despite what you might think, Jagex's official stance is that P2P is merely an expansion. If you took all of PTP out the game would be dead. If you took FTP out nobody would really care (except the members who like FTP pking/clan wars and the people who can't afford PTP). The only use of FTP is to give players a taste of runescape before they purchase the full game and that's the only part of FTP that would be missed if FTP was taken out. I agree with this. I've never understood why people think F2P is anything more than a glorified demo. I wouldn't play Runescape if I couldn't have all of the P2P content. /my two cents. To put it bluntly, [bleep] off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petee Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Jagex should make a completely new boss in F2P.. RETIRED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youmu Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 If they want a completely new boss, they could make a cockroach queen. Also, why in the world is this moved to Debate Club? BlogTrimmed | Master Quester | Final BossBoss pets: Bombi | Shrimpy | Ellie | Tz-Rek Jad | Karil the Bobbled | Mega Ducklings120s: Dungeoneering | Invention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saunamajuri Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Mole yesKbd would be hard, but i have nothing againts it.D med helm maybe.Also, normal potions, like attacka, defence etc. "An Amateur practices until he can get it right. A Professional practices until he can't get it wrong." Quests just keep bringing me back to this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Squab Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 D med just makes it more of a demo. I think they should take a lot of obselete P2P content and slowly merge it into the game. Wave spells, snare/entangle, mystic, blue dragon hide, rune arrows....Then work on high level melee armour... Personally, I you'd need entirely new content for this stuff. There's a lot of things I think F2P could use tbh.... Mystic,. blue dragonhide, rune arrows, wave spells, snare entangle, level 50 melee armour to not make corrupt items obselete, magic bows, normal level potions (attack, strength...but you'd need something for range/mage too IMO to keep it balanced O.O) Rawr. I'm going to bed. Note that most things on that list are pretty much obselete anyways, except for mage/range potion. And yes KBD :P And chaos alter? Squab unleashes Megiddo! Completed all quests and hard diaries. 75+ Skiller. (At one point.) 2000+ total. 99 Magic.[spoiler=The rest of my sig. You know you wanna see it.]my difinition of noob is i dont like u, either u are better then me or u are worst them meBuying spins make you a bad person...don't do it. It's like buying nukes for North Korea.Well if it bothers you that the game is more fun now, then you can go cry in a corner. :shame:your article was the equivalent of a circumcized porcupineThe only thing wrong with it is the lack of a percentage for when you need to stroke it. Poignant Purple to Lokie's Ravishing Red and Alg's Brilliant Blue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K4ylan Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I agree with chaos altar. But isn't KBD just a bit too hard? Even with Mystic and Dragonhide and Rune(fairly weak armors), no antifires and high hitting weapons (unless you hunt with corr d scimmy), it will rip most players to shreds. The mole is reasonable, but the main prize in fighting moles(bird nests+seeds) are member's only, used for members only skills. And I do not think the will bring farming and herblore into F2P. ~~~The Harpy List~~~Harpy Facts~~~It's Super Effective~~~The Beginning~~~Harpy Therapy Center~~~Alg~~~Jedi Harpy~~~Rohirrim~~~Attenuation~~~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Articultural Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I don't see any reason why canoes, the KBD and the mole shouldn't be F2P. While canoes are another subject altogether, they go right through the middle of F2P and would be an excellent addition to their limit methods of transport. It would also give woodcutting more of a use in F2P and a taste of the way different skills can be incorporated into multiple activities in P2P. Back on topic, if the KBD didn't drop dragon bones/hides on F2P and crushed nests were F2P and useless for F2Pers (like chocolate dust, only use is to sell to P2Pers), I can't see how there could be any problems. The only exception is nests with seeds in them, however that could easily be solved by only letting F2Pers trade moleskins/claws for ring nests, or even not at all. The lure of a F2P boss monster, and a possible D Med (or even Spear/Left half) would be enough to entice F2P into using the content regularly, even if moleskins/claws were useless for F2Pers. The KBD's drops would easily pay for their supplies too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troacctid Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I guess the real problem is the baggage that comes with it. The King Black Dragon and the spiders at the entrance to his lair are poisonous. That's bothersome to fix. F2P revenants resolve the issue by only using poison in Members' Wilderness, a solution which obviously wouldn't work with the KBD. Also, the KBD's drops that are f2p are all pretty unimpressive, even once you include the d med. It would be great if there were some way to introduce free players to the badassery that is the King Black Dragon, perhaps the most famous and iconic of all boss monsters, but it's complicated. Read my blog | Follow me on Twitter | Track my XP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xx_Flare_xX Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Truthfully I don't like the idea of bringing the King Black Dragon or the Dragon Med to F2P. I would rather them create a brand new boss for F2P then bring a former P2P boss to F2P. F2P should have a brand new boss that requires a team to take down with new loot (not just Melee but Ranged and Magic aswell). So No for KBD in F2P but yes for a brand new Boss for F2P :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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