Apologies...

[Blutters]

I'd like to pose some very simple questions that will likely be very controversial.

 

1. Should the US formally apologize for slavery?

 

2. Should Germany formally apologize for the holocaust?

 

3. Should the Middle East formally apologize for 9-11?

 

Please post your responses to these questions. I will wait until later to post my personal opinions. As it is I am basically posting this and leaving for the time being.

[Dizzle229]

1. We already have.

2. They already have.

3. No, the Middle Eastern countries are not responsible, a few extremists FROM the Middle East are.

[Rainy_Day]

1. We already have.

2. They already have.

3. No, the Middle East is not responsible, a few extremists FROM the Middle East are.

Well, seems dizzle has settled it pretty easily.

 

Basically what he said.

[fakeitormakeit2]

1. Should the US formally apologize for slavery?

Slavery has been removed for 150yrs and there are things such as affirmative action to give "equal opportunity". The apology is already done.

 

2. Should Germany formally apologize for the holocaust?

I'm sure it has probably been done in some form, plus not all Germans supported Hitler, so no.

 

3. Should the Middle East formally apologize for 9-11?

I find this even offensive to ask. I am Middle Eastern and I had 0% support for the actions of the terrorists. They were linked to Al Queda, so if anyone should apologize it should be the US government. Why? Because Saudi Arabia banishes Osama bin Laden for being an extremist douche and then the US gives him money to fight the USSR. It later bites America in the [wagon]. First of all, "The Middle East" is not one entity. It is quite an ignorant statement to lump them all together, it's like saying "Should the West apologize for..." I find this even more so offensive because Middle Eastern Christians have been fighting off Islamic extremism and oppression for the last 1200 yrs and the US goes as far as to threaten to attack (Christian faction of) Lebanon as they supported Saddam but as soon as the US gets hit once, there must be a purging of all the Middle Eastern people from the world.

 

This goes for any other grouping of an entire area and generalizing.

[SeanyTheSailor]

1. Do the sins of the father pass to his sons? (also many Americans are immigrants or their more recent ancestors are)

2. Do the sins of the father pass to his sons?

3. It was extremists who did it but much of the Middle East is anti-American anyway so they wouldn't (Note: Anti-American is different from extremist)

[OldJoe]

Certain individuals are responsible for the atrocities you've mentioned, but the country as a whole should not be apologizing.

WW2 for example, soldiers and civilians didn't know about the experiments and camps that the German government ran. It wasn't until the end people started to know about. And besides, being a soldier in WW2 for Germany's side you didn't have much choice, march to France or be executed.

[fakeitormakeit2]

1. Do the sins of the father pass to his sons? (also many Americans are immigrants or their more recent ancestors are)

2. Do the sins of the father pass to his sons?

3. It was extremists who did it but much of the Middle East is anti-American anyway so they wouldn't (Note: Anti-American is different from extremist)

Have you ever spoken to someone from the Middle East or is that what your friend the television taught you?

 

There is a difference between being Anti-American and thinking the US government is [developmentally delayed]ed.

[SeanyTheSailor]

1. Do the sins of the father pass to his sons? (also many Americans are immigrants or their more recent ancestors are)

2. Do the sins of the father pass to his sons?

3. It was extremists who did it but much of the Middle East is anti-American anyway so they wouldn't (Note: Anti-American is different from extremist)

Have you ever spoken to someone from the Middle East or is that what your friend the television taught you?

 

There is a difference between being Anti-American and thinking the US government is [developmentally delayed]ed.

I don't have cable or satellite so i don't have a friend called the television. So in that regard you fail.

Also I have read what you have said about being middle eastern so I'm not going to try to convince you that you are wrong because I know I won't.

 

Just let me know the next time you are watching al-jazeera and there is a guy preaching/yelling death to America, oh ya children doing likewise will work too.

[fakeitormakeit2]

1. Do the sins of the father pass to his sons? (also many Americans are immigrants or their more recent ancestors are)

2. Do the sins of the father pass to his sons?

3. It was extremists who did it but much of the Middle East is anti-American anyway so they wouldn't (Note: Anti-American is different from extremist)

Have you ever spoken to someone from the Middle East or is that what your friend the television taught you?

 

There is a difference between being Anti-American and thinking the US government is [developmentally delayed]ed.

I don't have cable or satellite so i don't have a friend called the television. So in that regard you fail.

Also I have read what you have said about being middle eastern so I'm not going to try to convince you that you are wrong because I know I won't.

 

Just let me know the next time you are watching al-jazeera and there is a guy preaching/yelling death to America, oh ya children doing likewise will work too.

 

Mhm, now I understand your source is better then my source, because you've read it. Please correct me as to why then do NO members of my Middle Eastern family [including extended i.e. close non-blood related] hate Americans but rather disagree with government decisions?

 

I know your limited reading is much more accurate then the resources at my disposal, i.e. actually speaking to Middle Eastern people regularly and frequenting trips to one of the largest Arabic communities in the US at least once a month, but please hear this small comment. My grandmother, who comes from Egypt, who's family has come from Egypt and has lived in Egypt for the majority of her life always says about how she thinks the American government is so very stupid. But she also praises the "old fashion" Americans, about how hardworking and honest they are. I know, that is sullied with hate speech, is it not?

 

PS I don't read Al Jazeera, but let me write that in arabic for you since you're such an Arabic major.

انا ما بشؤف ال جزيره

I hope you don't mind that there's a kusra over the waw, I couldn't find the key on my keyboard that didn't have a kusra or a fatha over the waw for some reason, but you'll understand anyway.

[Skull]

I believe most of the Anti-Americanism that is prevalent throughout middle eastern countries is because of America trying to "police the world" and not because of an extremist interpretation of the Islamic religion.

 

That's all from how I've interpreted it, I don't have any real knowledge on the subject.

[fakeitormakeit2]

I believe most of the Anti-Americanism that is prevalent throughout middle eastern countries is because of America trying to "police the world" and not because of an extremist interpretation of the Islamic religion.

 

That's all from how I've interpreted it, I don't have any real knowledge on the subject.

 

You are very wise. You do not presume things without knowing and you state a reasonable opinion.

[Blutters]

I'm not entirely sure but I don't think that a president or other leader has ever went up and formerly given a big speech on behalf of the entire country, which is pretty much what I meant.

 

1. Should the US formally apologize for slavery?

Slavery has been removed for 150yrs and there are things such as affirmative action to give "equal opportunity". The apology is already done.

 

2. Should Germany formally apologize for the holocaust?

I'm sure it has probably been done in some form, plus not all Germans supported Hitler, so no.

 

3. Should the Middle East formally apologize for 9-11?

I find this even offensive to ask. I am Middle Eastern and I had 0% support for the actions of the terrorists. They were linked to Al Queda, so if anyone should apologize it should be the US government. Why? Because Saudi Arabia banishes Osama bin Laden for being an extremist douche and then the US gives him money to fight the USSR. It later bites America in the [wagon]. First of all, "The Middle East" is not one entity. It is quite an ignorant statement to lump them all together, it's like saying "Should the West apologize for..." I find this even more so offensive because Middle Eastern Christians have been fighting off Islamic extremism and oppression for the last 1200 yrs and the US goes as far as to threaten to attack (Christian faction of) Lebanon as they supported Saddam but as soon as the US gets hit once, there must be a purging of all the Middle Eastern people from the world.

 

This goes for any other grouping of an entire area and generalizing.

Your response is interesting, especially because you don't seem to see what that question had in common with the other two.

I will admit that I wrote this thread rather hurriedly because the idea had just popped into my head and it was only a few minutes before I was going to leave.

If I had had more time I wouldn't have lumped all of the Middle East together, as you put it, but did a search or two and found out what the individual nationalities were that were responsible for the incident.

Otherwise, that question was perfectly reasonable to ask in addition to the other two.

 

Your main point is the generalization and that is my main topic. Why should the entire US apologize, formally or not, for slavery? Only part of the country supported it. The same goes for the holocaust (kind of; I don't think anyone but the perpetrators themselves really supported those actions).

It's the point that the whole was not responsible, so why should the whole be blamed (daresay punished in some cases)?

[fakeitormakeit2]

You have a very good point.

 

Something like slavery should have been apologized for, and it was in its own way, due to its removal and affirmative action. Actions speak louder then words. It does not necessarily meant to be said by the people who did not support it, but if there were people who did not do anything, then that's partially their fault.

 

Many Germans/Other Europeans had no choice but to go a long with what they were being forced to do. I've been to Europe a couple times and I see Holocaust memorials in like every country, so I think the apology has been said there too.

 

However in the Middle East the people affiliated with the bombings were mostly people who their governments tried to get rid of even, so they shouldn't have to apologize because they tried to work against it. Well, they should perhaps apologize in a sort of we gave it our best try but didn't fully succeed. The Saudi Arabians try to get rid of their extremists and the Lebanese also try to purge themselves, but it's hard when bordering countries harbor. Again, those who do nothing should be apologizing.

 

Sometimes the more intelligent need to apologize to the world for mistake of their stupid/less moral brothers.

[RpgGamer]

I'd like to pose some very simple questions that will likely be very controversial.

 

1. Should the US formally apologize for slavery?

 

2. Should Germany formally apologize for the holocaust?

 

3. Should the Middle East formally apologize for 9-11?

 

Please post your responses to these questions. I will wait until later to post my personal opinions. As it is I am basically posting this and leaving for the time being.

 

 

1. We haven't and most definiatly should [state by state, not all of them have caught up yet]

2. Absolutely, as should any other Nazi ruled country. This includes France for being weak, and Poland for sucking

3. No, we should just whup their [wagon] and adopt them into submission. Seems to be working so far.

[fakeitormakeit2]

I'd like to pose some very simple questions that will likely be very controversial.

 

1. Should the US formally apologize for slavery?

 

2. Should Germany formally apologize for the holocaust?

 

3. Should the Middle East formally apologize for 9-11?

 

Please post your responses to these questions. I will wait until later to post my personal opinions. As it is I am basically posting this and leaving for the time being.

 

 

1. We haven't and most definiatly should [state by state, not all of them have caught up yet]

2. Absolutely, as should any other Nazi ruled country. This includes France for being weak, and Poland for sucking

3. No, we should just whup their [wagon] and adopt them into submission. Seems to be working so far.

 

Why should France apologize for falling after they had a lot of WWI on their turf and they're still to recover population-wise in terms of the Napoleonic Wars and why should Poland apologize because they were a new country that got crushed easily because they didn't have machines of war?

[Ouchy]

Apologising isn't really an excuse for it happening. It's nice, but it's long ago (exception of 9/11). Most people are pretty iffy about the Holocaust anyway now days, apologising could create more problems that it will solve.

[Blutters]

I'd like to pose some very simple questions that will likely be very controversial.

 

1. Should the US formally apologize for slavery?

 

2. Should Germany formally apologize for the holocaust?

 

3. Should the Middle East formally apologize for 9-11?

 

Please post your responses to these questions. I will wait until later to post my personal opinions. As it is I am basically posting this and leaving for the time being.

 

 

1. We haven't and most definiatly should [state by state, not all of them have caught up yet]

2. Absolutely, as should any other Nazi ruled country. This includes France for being weak, and Poland for sucking

3. No, we should just whup their [wagon] and adopt them into submission. Seems to be working so far.

 

Why should France apologize for falling after they had a lot of WWI on their turf and they're still to recover population-wise in terms of the Napoleonic Wars and why should Poland apologize because they were a new country that got crushed easily because they didn't have machines of war?

I'm pretty sure he was joking, at least on the later two. If he were not, he probably would've expressed 'France for being weak, and Poland for sucking' in a much more serious fashion.

Also, I should praise you for your deep knowledge of history.

 

Apologising isn't really an excuse for it happening. It's nice, but it's long ago (exception of 9/11). Most people are pretty iffy about the Holocaust anyway now days, apologising could create more problems that it will solve.

Thank you for your rather unexpected response, although I'm not sure what you mean by people being 'iffy about the Holocaust' except for that one leader of that one country (Iran was it?) that out and out denied it.

[michel555555]

I'd like to pose some very simple questions that will likely be very controversial.

 

1. Should the US formally apologize for slavery?

 

2. Should Germany formally apologize for the holocaust?

 

3. Should the Middle East formally apologize for 9-11?

 

Please post your responses to these questions. I will wait until later to post my personal opinions. As it is I am basically posting this and leaving for the time being.

 

1. Been done for a long time already

 

2. Should the United States apologize for creating the conditions in Germany after the first world war that made it possible for Hitler to gain so much support in the first place?

 

3. Should the United States apologize for breaking several international treaties by supporting and sending military aid to Israel and causing so much conflict in the area in the first place?

[Blutters]

I'd like to pose some very simple questions that will likely be very controversial.

 

1. Should the US formally apologize for slavery?

 

2. Should Germany formally apologize for the holocaust?

 

3. Should the Middle East formally apologize for 9-11?

 

Please post your responses to these questions. I will wait until later to post my personal opinions. As it is I am basically posting this and leaving for the time being.

 

1. Been done for a long time already

 

2. Should the United States apologize for creating the conditions in Germany after the first world war that made it possible for Hitler to gain so much support in the first place?

 

3. Should the United States apologize for breaking several international treaties by supporting and sending military aid to Israel and causing so much conflict in the area in the first place?

<_< I dunno if it's fair to answer a question with a question, but from my rather limited knowledge of history:

 

1. Should Africa apologize for selling [some of] its own people to slave traders in the first place?

 

2. Should the Allies apologize for defeating the Kaizer?

 

3. Should the US apologize for attempting to keep a relatively new country from being wiped away?

 

Feel free to correct me on any of those.

Please note to everyone else that this post does not represent the main thought of the thread.

[Lenticular_J]

I think we should all just hug or something.

[michel555555]

I'd like to pose some very simple questions that will likely be very controversial.

 

1. Should the US formally apologize for slavery?

 

2. Should Germany formally apologize for the holocaust?

 

3. Should the Middle East formally apologize for 9-11?

 

Please post your responses to these questions. I will wait until later to post my personal opinions. As it is I am basically posting this and leaving for the time being.

 

1. Been done for a long time already

 

2. Should the United States apologize for creating the conditions in Germany after the first world war that made it possible for Hitler to gain so much support in the first place?

 

3. Should the United States apologize for breaking several international treaties by supporting and sending military aid to Israel and causing so much conflict in the area in the first place?

<_< I dunno if it's fair to answer a question with a question, but from my rather limited knowledge of history:

 

1. Should Africa apologize for selling [some of] its own people to slave traders in the first place?

 

2. Should the Allies apologize for defeating the Kaizer?

 

3. Should the US apologize for attempting to keep a relatively new country from being wiped away?

 

Feel free to correct me on any of those.

Please note to everyone else that this post does not represent the main thought of the thread.

 

1. should the white people who bought the slaves apologize?

 

I'm not gonna go on with the rest because we'll be here till we get to the first caveman who wacked the second cave man over the head with a rock.

 

The point i was trying to get at was that someone just doesn't wake up one day and decide he's gonna blow up the neighbors house. Its all cause and effect and why should we blame someone, nation, ect. for participating in an event that was started hundreds of years ago.

 

Just forgive and move on.

[____]

Rudd apologized to the 'Stolen Generation' shortly after taking office. Plenty of backlash about that.. and why he shouldn't have done it, rather the representative who was in power at the time should have, etc.

 

Whatever the point.. can't apologize for something your predecessor did. By all means go "we are sorry this happened to do" but at no point should it be said "we are sorry we [government] did this" as you're basically taking the blame for something that happened x years in the past by a difference group of people. If anything, they should be dragged out and made to apologize, not have the current persons forced, haggled or whatever else, into making an apology which is.. rather pointless.

 

 

Edit: Oh.. and in the event that the original perp is now dead.. sucks to be the victim, but you aren't going to be getting a true apology from anyone who is bullied into. But if it makes you sleep at night.. good for you.

[Giordano]

I want the slave owners themselves to apologize. Not Barrack Obama.

 

I want Hitler himself to apologize. Not Horst Köhler.

 

I want Osama Bin Laden himself to apologize, not all 15ish-whatever countries' leaders.

 

Before we punish them severely.

[Dax]

Rudd apologized to the 'Stolen Generation' shortly after taking office. Plenty of backlash about that.. and why he shouldn't have done it, rather the representative who was in power at the time should have, etc.

 

Whatever the point.. can't apologize for something your predecessor did. By all means go "we are sorry this happened to do" but at no point should it be said "we are sorry we [government] did this" as you're basically taking the blame for something that happened x years in the past by a difference group of people. If anything, they should be dragged out and made to apologize, not have the current persons forced, haggled or whatever else, into making an apology which is.. rather pointless.

 

 

Edit: Oh.. and in the event that the original perp is now dead.. sucks to be the victim, but you aren't going to be getting a true apology from anyone who is bullied into. But if it makes you sleep at night.. good for you.

 

You stole my reply. I suppose it was good though, so I didn't have to type it up. :thumbup:

[1_man_army]

Rudd apologized to the 'Stolen Generation' shortly after taking office. Plenty of backlash about that.. and why he shouldn't have done it, rather the representative who was in power at the time should have, etc.

 

Whatever the point.. can't apologize for something your predecessor did. By all means go "we are sorry this happened to do" but at no point should it be said "we are sorry we [government] did this" as you're basically taking the blame for something that happened x years in the past by a difference group of people. If anything, they should be dragged out and made to apologize, not have the current persons forced, haggled or whatever else, into making an apology which is.. rather pointless.

 

 

Edit: Oh.. and in the event that the original perp is now dead.. sucks to be the victim, but you aren't going to be getting a true apology from anyone who is bullied into. But if it makes you sleep at night.. good for you.

 

I see your point but official governmental apologies aren't really meant as a way of taking the blame for the actions of predecessor, it's more a case of acknowledging an injustice. I think it is just one step in the process of getting over these kind of things, a way to clear the air. That being said, I don't know enough about the Rudd apology to comment on that one specifically.