range slaying in kuradals dungeon

[bickers]

well today i got 99 str only need hp and def for max melee so i been thinking of range slaying to get up my appalling range level so i was going to range slay with rune darts on abbys/hellhounds/greater demons so im looking for a good setup to tank these i do have access to uni i also have a full slayer helm.

[bedman]

well today i got 99 str only need hp and def for max melee so i been thinking of range slaying to get up my appalling range level so i was going to range slay with rune darts on abbys/hellhounds/greater demons so im looking for a good setup to tank these i do have access to uni i also have a full slayer helm.

You wont need to wear anything special with a unicorn on any of these. Just use void and you'll be fine. Perhaps you will need to use dfs at hell hounds, but I'm not sure, with a unicorn you can probably manage

[010jonathan]

well today i got 99 str only need hp and def for max melee so i been thinking of range slaying to get up my appalling range level so i was going to range slay with rune darts on abbys/hellhounds/greater demons so im looking for a good setup to tank these i do have access to uni i also have a full slayer helm.

You wont need to wear anything special with a unicorn on any of these. Just use void and you'll be fine. Perhaps you will need to use dfs at hell hounds, but I'm not sure, with a unicorn you can probably manage

:S why would you use void with a full slayer helm

[Bladewing]

Full Slayer Helmet

Accumulator

Fury

Rune Darts

Unholy Book

Armadyl Chestplate

Armadyl Plateskirt

Barrows Gloves

Ranger Boots

Archer Ring

 

With enhanced excalibur and a bunyip or unicorn you will be fine. Be sure to use ranging potions and prayer potions for eagle eye.

[bickers]

Full Slayer Helmet

Accumulator

Fury

Rune Darts

Unholy Book

Armadyl Chestplate

Armadyl Plateskirt

Barrows Gloves

Ranger Boots

Archer Ring

 

With enhanced excalibur and a bunyip or unicorn you will be fine. Be sure to use ranging potions and prayer potions for eagle eye.

thanks for reply i dont realy want to buy armadyl or ranger boots so i assume il be fine with karils/black dhide and snakeskin boots?

[Kimberly]

well today i got 99 str only need hp and def for max melee so i been thinking of range slaying to get up my appalling range level so i was going to range slay with rune darts on abbys/hellhounds/greater demons so im looking for a good setup to tank these i do have access to uni i also have a full slayer helm.

You wont need to wear anything special with a unicorn on any of these. Just use void and you'll be fine. Perhaps you will need to use dfs at hell hounds, but I'm not sure, with a unicorn you can probably manage

:S why would you use void with a full slayer helm

 

Unless you have a complete slayer helm (focus and hex attatched) you won't get any range bonus and it's a waste to wear if you intend to range. You'd hit more often, then, with full void and foregoing the mask.

[K4ylan]

well today i got 99 str only need hp and def for max melee so i been thinking of range slaying to get up my appalling range level so i was going to range slay with rune darts on abbys/hellhounds/greater demons so im looking for a good setup to tank these i do have access to uni i also have a full slayer helm.

You wont need to wear anything special with a unicorn on any of these. Just use void and you'll be fine. Perhaps you will need to use dfs at hell hounds, but I'm not sure, with a unicorn you can probably manage

:S why would you use void with a full slayer helm

 

Unless you have a complete slayer helm (focus and hex attatched) you won't get any range bonus and it's a waste to wear if you intend to range. You'd hit more often, then, with full void and foregoing the mask.

 

He said he has a full slayer helm.

[bickers]

well today i got 99 str only need hp and def for max melee so i been thinking of range slaying to get up my appalling range level so i was going to range slay with rune darts on abbys/hellhounds/greater demons so im looking for a good setup to tank these i do have access to uni i also have a full slayer helm.

You wont need to wear anything special with a unicorn on any of these. Just use void and you'll be fine. Perhaps you will need to use dfs at hell hounds, but I'm not sure, with a unicorn you can probably manage

:S why would you use void with a full slayer helm

 

Unless you have a complete slayer helm (focus and hex attatched) you won't get any range bonus and it's a waste to wear if you intend to range. You'd hit more often, then, with full void and foregoing the mask.

i have a full slayer helm with hexcrest and focus sight ( got them off GE today) like i said in first post i just wanted to know a good setup to use with it and if i used dhides with bunyip/uni would keep me healed

[Unknown_Warrior]

Just so you know, Hellhounds and Blue Dragons both have safespots (I'd screenshot where to stand, but I can't enter her dungeon at the moment), so tanking won't be necessary for those. Focus on maximising your Ranged offence instead (use Focus Sight/Full slayer helmet and Ferocious ring if you have them).

 

Hellhounds is right behind the small stalagmite that leads to the lvl 90 agility shortcut, the Blue dragon safespot is at the east wall, where you are squeezed between the stalagmites and the eastern wall, the southern tile of the two will make it that no Blue dragon can reach you.

 

Have fun.

[sumondskull6]

I'm almost positive that a Rune crossbow with Broad-tipped bolts would put out a lot more dps than rune darts, and it's cheaper.

[ddddrrr]

I'm almost positive that a Rune crossbow with Broad-tipped bolts would put out a lot more dps than rune darts, and it's cheaper.

 

Not really,

 

For example, rune dart can hit 9 while twice where broad bolt hits 20 once.

 

20+4(ferocious ring) = 24

 

while 9(+4), and 9(+4) = 13+13 which is 26

 

Now those numbers are made up, but its to show that with the faster shots, you get 4 damage from ferocious ring extra

[sumondskull6]

I'm almost positive that a Rune crossbow with Broad-tipped bolts would put out a lot more dps than rune darts, and it's cheaper.

 

Not really,

 

For example, rune dart can hit 9 while twice where broad bolt hits 20 once.

 

20+4(ferocious ring) = 24

 

while 9(+4), and 9(+4) = 13+13 which is 26

 

Now those numbers are made up, but its to show that with the faster shots, you get 4 damage from ferocious ring extra

He's 80 range, if he used rune darts, with eagle eye and range pots, his max would be 16 + 4 = 20, x2 = 40

Using Broad's, eagle eye, and range pots, his max hit would be 33 + 4 = 37.

 

I'll assume he will use the max possible range gear, with the exception of an armadly helmet and a rangers amulet, due to using a fury and the full slayer helmet.

His attack bonus with the darts will be 121 + 15% + 12% + 15% = 179.

and his attack bonus with the broad's will be 196 + 15% + 12+ +15% = 290.

 

179 is 61.7% of 290, so we can assume you'd be hitting 38.3% less with rune darts than with broad bolts.

I'm going to use a sample of 1000 successful broad bolt shots, in one hour, for the sake of making this easy to follow.

That's a potential 37,000 damage with broad bolts, in an hour, which is 10.27 dps.

In the same amount of time, you'd get off 2,000 thrown darts. But wait! You only hit 61.7% as many of your hits! this brings it down to 1234 successful hits.

That's a potential 24,680 damage with the rune darts. That's 6.85 dps.

 

As you can see, Broad-tipped bolts with a Rune crossbow surpass Rune darts by quite a large amount.

[Bladewing]

That's not how accuracy works. If your attack is 150 and the monster's defence is 50, the odds of you "rolling" higher than the monster is 83.33%. If your attack is 100 and the monster's defence is 50, the odds of you "rolling" higher than the monster is 75%. So even though you have 33.3% less attack, you're only hitting 10% less often.

 

Hellhounds, Greaters, Blue Dragons, and Gargoyles all have pitiful defence to the point where darts are truly superior. For Abyssal Demons, Dark Beasts, and Irons/Steels, I believe the Rune Crossbow would have higher damage output.

[sumondskull6]

That's not how accuracy works. If your attack is 150 and the monster's defence is 50, the odds of you "rolling" higher than the monster is 83.33%. If your attack is 100 and the monster's defence is 50, the odds of you "rolling" higher than the monster is 75%. So even though you have 33.3% less attack, you're only hitting 10% less often.

 

Hellhounds, Greaters, Blue Dragons, and Gargoyles all have pitiful defence to the point where darts are truly superior. For Abyssal Demons, Dark Beasts, and Irons/Steels, I believe the Rune Crossbow would have higher damage output.

 

I don't see how you could possible get those figures, you didn't show your math, and as far as I could tell, you miscalculated... everything.

50 / 150 = 66.66% repeating, of course!

50 / 100 = 50%.

 

Lets re-do this math, and we'll use Level 50 defense, as that is extremely low, and the monsters you listen probably have a defense similar to that.

179 - 50 = 129. 129 / 179 = 72% change you'll hit.

290 - 50 = 240. 240 / 290 = 82.6% change you'll hit.

 

2000 shots with darts, 72% of that is 1,440 successful hits. 1440 x 20 = 28,800 damage in the "hour", 8 dps.

1000 shots with broads, 82.6% of that is 826 successful hits. 826 x 37 = 30,562 damage in the "hour", 8.49 dps.

 

Just to further my point, lets take price into consideration.

2000 x 246 = 492k.

1000 x 138 = 138k.

 

It's cheaper, and faster to use Broads, even on monsters with near no defense.

[bedman]

Full Slayer Helmet

Accumulator

Fury

Rune Darts

Unholy Book

Armadyl Chestplate

Armadyl Plateskirt

Barrows Gloves

Ranger Boots

Archer Ring

 

With enhanced excalibur and a bunyip or unicorn you will be fine. Be sure to use ranging potions and prayer potions for eagle eye.

thanks for reply i dont realy want to buy armadyl or ranger boots so i assume il be fine with karils/black dhide and snakeskin boots?

Dont use karil, black d'hide has the same magic attack bonus. (and you don't need mage defence). But yeah, you will surive for sure with unicorn, ee and black dhide.

[meb]

I recently did a Greaters task with black knives and I was as fast, if not faster, as with meleeing. I used the 10% range prayer and my focus sight. You need to use knives or darts to maximize the +4 damage from the ferocious ring. No need to safespt greaters. I tanked them with a bunyip in full black d'hide (Don't want to buy Armadyl armour either) and I didn't even need to use food or EE. If you drop the shield and go for a zammy book you might have to actually use the EE.

[Bladewing]

That's not how accuracy works. If your attack is 150 and the monster's defence is 50, the odds of you "rolling" higher than the monster is 83.33%. If your attack is 100 and the monster's defence is 50, the odds of you "rolling" higher than the monster is 75%. So even though you have 33.3% less attack, you're only hitting 10% less often.

 

Hellhounds, Greaters, Blue Dragons, and Gargoyles all have pitiful defence to the point where darts are truly superior. For Abyssal Demons, Dark Beasts, and Irons/Steels, I believe the Rune Crossbow would have higher damage output.

 

I don't see how you could possible get those figures, you didn't show your math, and as far as I could tell, you miscalculated... everything.

50 / 150 = 66.66% repeating, of course!

50 / 100 = 50%.

Okay, I'll show my math.

 

Starting with the 150 attack, 50 defence scenario:

The monster has a 2% chance of rolling each number 1 through 50. If he rolls a 50, the player will roll higher 100 out of 150 times. So the odds of him beating the dragon is 100/150.

If the dragon rolls 49, the player will roll higher 101 out of 150 times. So the odds of him beating the dragon is 101/150.

If the dragon rolls x, the player will roll higher (150-x) out of 150 times. So the odds of him beating the dragon is (150-x)/150.

 

We integrate (150-x)/150 with respect to x from 0 to 50. We must evaluate the antiderivative, (x - x^2/300) from 0 to 50, which yields 41.667. We now must divide by 50, for each of the 50 possible rolls of the dragon, yielding 0.8333 - an 83.3% chance of hitting.

 

Now the 100 attack, 50 defence scenario:

The monster has a 2% chance of rolling each number 1 through 50. If he rolls a 50, the player will roll higher 50 out of 100 times. So the odds of him beating the dragon is 50/100.

If the dragon rolls 49, the player will roll higher 51 out of 100 times. So the odds of him beating the dragon is 51/100.

If the dragon rolls x, the player will roll higher (100-x) out of 100 times. So the odds of him beating the dragon is (100-x)/100.

 

We integrate (100-x)/100 with respect to x from 0 to 50. We must evaluate the antiderivative, (x - x^2/200) from 0 to 50, which yields 37.5. We now must divide by 50, for each of the 50 possible rolls of the dragon, yielding 0.75 - a 75% chance of hitting.

[sumondskull6]

That's not how accuracy works. If your attack is 150 and the monster's defence is 50, the odds of you "rolling" higher than the monster is 83.33%. If your attack is 100 and the monster's defence is 50, the odds of you "rolling" higher than the monster is 75%. So even though you have 33.3% less attack, you're only hitting 10% less often.

 

Hellhounds, Greaters, Blue Dragons, and Gargoyles all have pitiful defence to the point where darts are truly superior. For Abyssal Demons, Dark Beasts, and Irons/Steels, I believe the Rune Crossbow would have higher damage output.

 

I don't see how you could possible get those figures, you didn't show your math, and as far as I could tell, you miscalculated... everything.

50 / 150 = 66.66% repeating, of course!

50 / 100 = 50%.

Okay, I'll show my math.

 

Starting with the 150 attack, 50 defence scenario:

The monster has a 2% chance of rolling each number 1 through 50. If he rolls a 50, the player will roll higher 100 out of 150 times. So the odds of him beating the dragon is 100/150.

If the dragon rolls 49, the player will roll higher 101 out of 150 times. So the odds of him beating the dragon is 101/150.

If the dragon rolls x, the player will roll higher (150-x) out of 150 times. So the odds of him beating the dragon is (150-x)/150.

 

We integrate (150-x)/150 with respect to x from 0 to 50. We must evaluate the antiderivative, (x - x^2/300) from 0 to 50, which yields 41.667. We now must divide by 50, for each of the 50 possible rolls of the dragon, yielding 0.8333 - an 83.3% chance of hitting.

 

Now the 100 attack, 50 defence scenario:

The monster has a 2% chance of rolling each number 1 through 50. If he rolls a 50, the player will roll higher 50 out of 100 times. So the odds of him beating the dragon is 50/100.

If the dragon rolls 49, the player will roll higher 51 out of 100 times. So the odds of him beating the dragon is 51/100.

If the dragon rolls x, the player will roll higher (100-x) out of 100 times. So the odds of him beating the dragon is (100-x)/100.

 

We integrate (100-x)/100 with respect to x from 0 to 50. We must evaluate the antiderivative, (x - x^2/200) from 0 to 50, which yields 37.5. We now must divide by 50, for each of the 50 possible rolls of the dragon, yielding 0.75 - a 75% chance of hitting.

 

Now use my figures of 179 attack bonus and 290 attack bonus, along with the % chance of hitting, 2x for the darts, and then figure out the dps. I do believe that the Broad's will still be faster, and cheaper.

[anonymouse_]

Why doesn't someone just go in and test it? :rolleyes:

[sumondskull6]

Why doesn't someone just go in and test it? :rolleyes:

 

Because factual figures > a small sample test.

[MstrMonopoly]

Hellhounds might have such low defense that Rune Darts could be worth it, and Greater Demons have such low HP that Broad Bolts could be overkill (think AGS speccing a Goblin, but less extreme).

 

Otherwise I'd stick to Broad Bolts, and I'd probably lean towards Broads anyway on Hells/Greater Demons.

[aspeeder]

Hellhounds might have such low defense that Rune Darts could be worth it, and Greater Demons have such low HP that Broad Bolts could be overkill (think AGS speccing a Goblin, but less extreme).

 

Otherwise I'd stick to Broad Bolts, and I'd probably lean towards Broads anyway on Hells/Greater Demons.

Broads are relatively cheap, but like previously posted black knifes are a good alternative. Also while killing some Gargoyles in her dungeon I noticed some spots along the western and northern walls that look good for safespotting; I doubt that ranging Gargoyles is fast, I assume that they have a high range def, but just though I'd let you know :-) .

[sumondskull6]

Hellhounds might have such low defense that Rune Darts could be worth it, and Greater Demons have such low HP that Broad Bolts could be overkill (think AGS speccing a Goblin, but less extreme).

 

Otherwise I'd stick to Broad Bolts, and I'd probably lean towards Broads anyway on Hells/Greater Demons.

Broads are relatively cheap, but like previously posted black knifes are a good alternative. Also while killing some Gargoyles in her dungeon I noticed some spots along the western and northern walls that look good for safespotting; I doubt that ranging Gargoyles is fast, I assume that they have a high range def, but just though I'd let you know :-) .

A friend of mine was ranging Gargoyles in Kuradals dungeon while I was on a melee task, I use maxed gear with pure sets. He used black d'hide with a full slayer helm, white boots, an unholy book, range pots and eagle eye, and he was killing them just as fast if not faster than me. He was 99 range, but non-the-less, I'm positive that Gargoyles have relatively low ranged defense. ;)

[Bladewing]

Now use my figures of 179 attack bonus and 290 attack bonus, along with the % chance of hitting, 2x for the darts, and then figure out the dps. I do believe that the Broad's will still be faster, and cheaper.

Well that would require knowing the defence level of a blue dragon. We know it is at least 66, but I estimate its defence at closer to 100 (conservatice). Let's start with some basic assumptions.

 

Using top gear with rune darts, one would have +118 range accuracy from equipment. Assuming the player is potted to at least 120/99 ranging, the total accuracy bonus with darts is +238. Then, applying the 15% accuracy bonus from the focus sight and the 15% accuracy bonus from eagle eye, we have 314.7 accuracy. Since the damage range of rune darts ranges from 5 to 25, and since empirical evidence shows that damage distribution is even, the average hit with a rune dart would deal 15 damage.

 

Using top gear with rune crossbow, one would have +193 range accuracy from equipment. Assuming the player is potted to at least 120/99 ranging, the total accuracy bonus with darts is +313. Then, applying the 15% accuracy bonus from the focus sight and the 15% accuracy bonus from eagle eye, we have 413.9 accuracy. Since the damage range of broad bolts ranges from 5 to 47, and since empirical evidence shows that damage distribution is even, the average hit with a broad bolt would deal 26 damage.

 

The odds of rolling higher than a blue dragon, with a max roll of 100, with accuracy of 314.7 is: 68%

The odds of rolling higher than a blue dragon, with a max roll of 100, with accuracy of 413.9 is: 75%

 

Therefore, the average hit of a rune dart is: 10.2, doubled is 20.4

Therefore, the average hit of a broad bolt is: 19.5

 

Rune darts have a higher damage output, and since their hits are smaller and more frequent, the amount of "wasted damage" is also less, speeding up your kills even more.

 

If you're interested, the defence level at which broad bolts become better in Kuradal's dungeon is 728.

[sumondskull6]

Now use my figures of 179 attack bonus and 290 attack bonus, along with the % chance of hitting, 2x for the darts, and then figure out the dps. I do believe that the Broad's will still be faster, and cheaper.

Using top gear with rune darts, one would have +118 range accuracy from equipment. Assuming the player is potted to at least 120/99 ranging, the total accuracy bonus with darts is +238. Then, applying the 15% accuracy bonus from the focus sight and the 15% accuracy bonus from eagle eye, we have 314.7 accuracy. Since the damage range of rune darts ranges from 5 to 25, and since empirical evidence shows that damage distribution is even, the average hit with a rune dart would deal 15 damage.

 

Using top gear with rune crossbow, one would have +193 range accuracy from equipment. Assuming the player is potted to at least 120/99 ranging, the total accuracy bonus with darts is +313. Then, applying the 15% accuracy bonus from the focus sight and the 15% accuracy bonus from eagle eye, we have 413.9 accuracy. Since the damage range of broad bolts ranges from 5 to 47, and since empirical evidence shows that damage distribution is even, the average hit with a broad bolt would deal 26 damage.

 

It appears as though you've changed your figures to make it look like darts are better. 313 is 1.62x 193, where as 238 is 2.01x 118.

 

You severely increased the accuracy of the rune darts.

 

Once again, I'd like to throw in that 2k rune darts cost 3.57x as much as 1k broad bolts, you would also loose 2x as many rune darts, as you're using 2x as many, and the ratio stays proportional.