Fletching & Dungeoneering

[123neopet]

There's long been an argument that F2P should get at least limited amounts of Fletching, and I think this really drives the point home.

 

Obviously the main argument is that F2P people can make melee weapons and runes, but not ranged gear. This is especially driven home by Dungeoneering. In F2p, ranged is essentially a dead skill after about the 3rd complexity level. I realize that we JUST got a new skill, and this seems like pure whining for more features, but honestly, aside from the "You get what you pay for" argument that has been beaten to death, is there any GOOD reason why F2P should be denied access to basic fletching, if only for Dungeoneering?

[Skull]

It's not that bad, I just bind 125 arrows and replenish them every round.

 

A fun fact, f2p players can make the arrow heads. They're called members items and have no use. It'll probably get fixed or already has been though.

[Althalus]

I like the fact that I can make death, law, chaos and nature runes now even though it's at a fraction of the xp. It just changes things up. As for the fletching it'd be nice if we at least had access to better bows in the shop. I've only used ranged in the slippery room against that flying eye guy.

[123neopet]

Yeah. I forgot, but that was one of the other things I found bizarre: We're allowed to make runes we normally couldn't since we can't bring them in, why can't we make bows we normally couldn't? Also: Is fletching used to make the staves, which makes it much harder to mage since you can't easily get unlimited rune stocks.. Without fletching or better items in the shops, it's difficult to do anything other than Melee in F2P, which really kinda dampens the fun.

[Bugmeat]

Why not toss in Farming and Herblore too! :?

[123neopet]

Because that's not the same thing. Fletching enables ranged (and, to a lesser extent, Magic). Without it, it is MUCH more difficult for F2P players who don't use melee as their main to do stuff. Besides, it doesn't actually add any NEW content for F2Pers. The initial products and the end results are both already there, you just can't convert one to the other. The same can't really be said for any of the Herblore or Farming.

[ArtemisCatal]

I agree about the fletching thing, but I know why they don't have it in dungeneering: you'd get Fletching exp unless they did some different programing for it than they already have.

 

edit: and how would you have a fletching lvl to base what kind of arrows you could make?

 

edit2: i think this really boils down to an argument to why f2p should have limited fletching skill. Meleers can make their weapons, magers can make at least their very basic weapons, but range is stuck using shops and drops. Always struck me as unfair... but I dont want to stand between jagex and the "outraged"members over giving f2p what is, essentially, a very, very, very borring skill that 99 people out of 100 buy anyway. I am aready deafend by the future echos of members yelling about how much f2p has gotten already.

[Den]

This supports my idea of the respawn tables giving a basic set of weaponry and armor every round, or atleast spawning a bow and some arrows every round.

[NukeMarine]

I agree, F2P should have the basic fletching skill. It compliments this dungeon and is in keeping with the other two combat modes having support from F2P skills.

[Youmu]

Agreed, F2P should get Fletching sometime soon. It's just unfair to F2P rangers.

 

They should be able to make bows up to Maple, and arrows up to adamant.

 

Same with Dungeoneering, they should make up to tier 5 equipment (max for F2P).

 

And Jagex shouldn't listen to those enraged members. We F2P are players too, you know. :angry:

[sammyboy894]

 

And Jagex shouldn't listen to those enraged members. We F2P are players too, you know. :angry:

 

 

members pay you dont, if jagex ignores them they lose alot of money. Basic business there :rolleyes:

 

OT: I still agree with your point though F2P should be allowed to have access to fletching, its only fair.

[Youmu]

members pay you dont, if jagex ignores them they lose alot of money. Basic business there :rolleyes:

However, in the end it's still Jagex' s decision, so regardless of F2P or P2P, complaining too much or even protesting/rioting is pointless.

 

Still, giving Fletching to F2P with my above said requirements is probably the only way to keep ranged balanced.

[strilmus]

Seeing as you can bind either a bow and arrows, or a stave and one type of rune, I think being outraged about this specific case is a bit overboard.

[Pret]

Wasn't it mentioned a while back that Jagex were going introduce some aspects of fletching into the F2P part of the minigame?

 

Either that, or I was reading a suggestions thread.

 

 

It is a good idea though, don't give any exp for making the arrows/staves and it's not impacting anything else on the game other than making Dungeoneering mages and fletchers a lot easier.

 

Although, I am quite happy with my water and fire staffs being randomly put on each level.

[Ronan]

I've almost exclusively used Ranged throughout my entire Dungeoneering gaming, I'm now Level-31 and have gained 4 ranged levels from Level-40. (F2P).

 

I almost seem to exclusively always get at least 2 bows and a set of decent arrows each game even though I'm playing at the highest complexity, as well as having a decent bow and fractite arrows bound for each floor.

 

Certainly for me - Ranged is the most viable option for me here and I've not been hindered even once by the spawning of items / lack of fletching. Perhaps I'm lucky? Or perhaps the spawns are based on the predominantly used combat-skill?

[Torlen]

This supports my idea of the respawn tables giving a basic set of weaponry and armor every round, or atleast spawning a bow and some arrows every round.

 

No. At the highest complexity you should receive nothing except a bit of food and some money. If you want a basic set of armor and weaponry play a lower complexity and take the xp loss.

[Made0f12une]

I agree with just about everything said above supporting this idea.

 

Fletching is one of thee oldest skills and one of the most ignored ones at that. On a given day I can gaurentee you that a very minute portion of the population can be found actually training it, nevermind gathering supplies.

 

Since we've moved away from Runescape Classic, members have gotten 4 (or 5?) completely new skills to slave through. Why not give back to the loyal population one of the orginal forgotten skills?

 

Anyway, i support.

[Wingless]

What about the basic right to have faster run recovery speed, the right to steal stuff from other people, the right to farm their own food, the right to be able to turn produce into potions, the right to slay monsters, the right to hunt their own food and clothing, the right to summon aides in battle and last - and most important - the right to their own house?!

 

On another, less sarcastic note:

I don't mind if F2P get some instances of fletching that is contained to making bows and arrows, and is prohibited outside of the Dungeoneering Areas

[Youmu]

What about the basic right to have faster run recovery speed, the right to steal stuff from other people, the right to farm their own food, the right to be able to turn produce into potions, the right to slay monsters, the right to hunt their own food and clothing, the right to summon aides in battle and last - and most important - the right to their own house?!

 

On another, less sarcastic note:

I don't mind if F2P get some instances of fletching that is contained to making bows and arrows, and is prohibited outside of the Dungeoneering Areas

I understand that you were being sarcastic. However, many of us believe that only Fletching should be F2P as it suits in best.

 

This is because we can already make our own armor, weapons, and runes, but not ranged weaponry.

 

But I shall still argue against those statements... FOR TEH LULZ.

 

Faster run recovery speed - Resting, musician, and explorer ring recharges say hi.

Steal stuff from other people - You can still get stuff by killing them anyway.

Farm our own food - Fishing and cooking say hi.

Turn produce into potions - Strength pots.

Slay monsters - Combat?

Hunt their own food and clothing - Crafting says hi.

Summon aides in battle - Clans.

The right to their own house - Ok, maybe there isn't a F2P "version" of this... but they get their own dungeons.

 

Fletching is a "noob" skill to you P2Pers out there anyway, so why complain?

[123neopet]

Why not toss in Farming and Herblore too! :?

 

well certain doors in there REQUIRE herblore to continue. People may say that f2p deservees only part of the skill but i think f2p deserves to get 99 in the skill.

At least as far as I've seen, no doors on a F2P world require P2P skills to complete. (Although I have seen one puzzle that required level 100 crafting. This is impossible in f2p without the potions. I'd say something about fixing it, but it's not like it's much different than 99 for most f2pers)

[Profins]

I'll agree to the guy saying "Why not toss in herblaw as well?" and disagree with it not being the same thing. I think herblaw is even more important, because if your team comes across a door you can not open without upping your stats, you're, for lack of better phrase, screwed. As for range, you have huge amounts of money being thrown at you - buy a bow, bind arrows and stop QQing. You can only wield what, tier 6 items? Means it's not going to be expensive.

 

I'm freaked out Jagex gave free players ANYTHING to begin with and here we have people whining to want more.

 

NTY.

 

Also, what would you do if F2Pers COULD use fletching to make arrows? Your fletching level is 1, you can't make anything.

And difference between making p2p runes and making arrows is that in one case you get f2p xp, in other you get p2p xp.

 

Quote:

 

Agreed, F2P should get Fletching sometime soon. It's just unfair to F2P rangers.

 

They should be able to make bows up to Maple, and arrows up to adamant.

 

Same with Dungeoneering, they should make up to tier 5 equipment (max for F2P).

 

And Jagex shouldn't listen to those enraged members. We F2P are players too, you know. :angry:

And F2Ps who find not enough content should be able to save 6 bucks a month. Please don't give me crap about poor families, if you can afford to spend your leisure time on PC playing games (Remember, both electricity and internet costs money), you sure can afford to purchase membership. If you're sticking to your principles of "F2P forever" then don't beg for P2P content.

[Ronan]

At least as far as I've seen, no doors on a F2P world require P2P skills to complete. (Although I have seen one puzzle that required level 100 crafting. This is impossible in f2p without the potions. I'd say something about fixing it, but it's not like it's much different than 99 for most f2pers)

So far I've only seen doors that require Herblore and Agility in my progression on a free-to-play character. However, these aren't a necessity for completion of the dungeon, just bonus rooms. This has been spoken about on the RSOF and apparently there are 'technical limitations' for removing the P2P content from the F2P dungeons, but no doors ever impact the completion of a dungeon.

 

Even so, I dislike them being there as they do impact the resultant overall experience that one can obtain. I'm fine with having my experience limited by lower skills, but not by content I simply don't want to pay for - I think 'technical limitations' is a very poor excuse too, Jagex are very well known for their intuition when dealing with difficulties in this area and I'm pretty sure they could find a solution.

[123neopet]

I'll agree to the guy saying "Why not toss in herblaw as well?" and disagree with it not being the same thing. I think herblaw is even more important, because if your team comes across a door you can not open without upping your stats, you're, for lack of better phrase, screwed. As for range, you have huge amounts of money being thrown at you - buy a bow, bind arrows and stop QQing. You can only wield what, tier 6 items? Means it's not going to be expensive.

 

I'm freaked out Jagex gave free players ANYTHING to begin with and here we have people whining to want more.

 

NTY.

 

Also, what would you do if F2Pers COULD use fletching to make arrows? Your fletching level is 1, you can't make anything.

And difference between making p2p runes and making arrows is that in one case you get f2p xp, in other you get p2p xp.

 

Quote:

 

Agreed, F2P should get Fletching sometime soon. It's just unfair to F2P rangers.

 

They should be able to make bows up to Maple, and arrows up to adamant.

 

Same with Dungeoneering, they should make up to tier 5 equipment (max for F2P).

 

And Jagex shouldn't listen to those enraged members. We F2P are players too, you know. :angry:

And F2Ps who find not enough content should be able to save 6 bucks a month. Please don't give me crap about poor families, if you can afford to spend your leisure time on PC playing games (Remember, both electricity and internet costs money), you sure can afford to purchase membership. If you're sticking to your principles of "F2P forever" then don't beg for P2P content.

Yes, Herblore would be useful. (Either you haven't played in a while or you are INCREDIBLY stubborn if you're still calling it herblaw. It's been YEARS since that change) The problem with buying a bow is that... we can't. You can't purchase a bow better than T1, same with staves. This means that unless you get a lucky start or a good drop (Or choose to bind a bow/staff, although personally I've bound a sword instead because I use melee as my main) F2P CAN'T get higher up bows/staves at complexity 3+

[Profins]

Yes, Herblore would be useful. (Either you haven't played in a while or you are INCREDIBLY stubborn if you're still calling it herblaw. It's been YEARS since that change) The problem with buying a bow is that... we can't. You can't purchase a bow better than T1, same with staves. This means that unless you get a lucky start or a good drop (Or choose to bind a bow/staff, although personally I've bound a sword instead because I use melee as my main) F2P CAN'T get higher up bows/staves at complexity 3+

Is that so? I thought shop stock increased, I know I can buy better bows.

 

At any rate, you do not bind a bow because you mainly use melee, however I read some people whining about being unable to range on characters on which melee isn't their main. So what excuse do they have? IMHO none. It's their problem. Either pay up or shut up. And if you don't use ranged as main then I don't see a single reason for whining about not being able to make a bow. It still sells T1 bows so no problem for boss. Want more? Pay more. Not directed at anyone in particular, of course.

 

However what I am directing at someone in particular, piesofdoom, is that it's not nice to be a hypocrite - you, to quote, "simply don't want to pay for" having no limits on doors skill-wise. Why is Jagex expected to want to remove these limits for non paying customers? I know their stance officially isn't "paying - non paying" and they try to treat everybody the same, but when you talk about having to overcome technical difficulties which they've failed to overcome all this time they've been making this, it's just ridiculous.

[Ronan]

However what I am directing at someone in particular, piesofdoom, is that it's not nice to be a hypocrite - you, to quote, "simply don't want to pay for" having no limits on doors skill-wise. Why is Jagex expected to want to remove these limits for non paying customers? I know their stance officially isn't "paying - non paying" and they try to treat everybody the same, but when you talk about having to overcome technical difficulties which they've failed to overcome all this time they've been making this, it's just ridiculous.

I'm in no way being hypocritical, rather I'm stating that I dislike having these skill doors in the free-version of the game. I don't want to pay for the members-content (although I have done for the past 4 years on a different character, so it's not that I don't support Jagex ;) ), and to me members content spans over to things like having requirements to do a specific task from that skill - i.e Door limits for P2P skills. It's simply in that these don't fit in with the free-portion of the game. Although arguably, we could take higher, members restricted tasks from other skills as a counter-point here.

 

Furthermore, given that I'd presume Jagex want to actively keep up the stance that they're portraying themselves as being, I'd imagine that it's beneficial for them to pursue areas of the game that don't hold true with their ideology, particularly removing P2P elements from the F2P game, to try and prevent the view of the F2P game being a demo. As previously stated though, it's not like I expect them to - rather it would be something I'd like to see, there is a difference there, even if you can't see it.

 

I somehow doubt that they're basing that much emphasis on removing these elements, "all this time they've been making this". I think it's quite fair to presume that they're placing emphasis on the random generation of dungeons and the plethora of other content necessary with the new skill. It takes a lot, even more for Jagex I'd imagine, to have the inability to bring out updates based on technical limitations and I think this may just be a case of not giving priority to it - which is fine by me, it's certainly a minor point which doesn't deserve consideration over most other things. Rather I'm trying to state that an experienced developer should be able to see methods of seperating content into categories and grabbing things from either one, based on an accounts status. Jagex have developed an MMO on a Java platform, they should be capable of doing this! :)