Nature Staff + Law Staff are scams.

[Jehosaphat]

I'd rather have a chance of saving a law rune while teleporting around doing normal stuff than having to waste an inventory spot on an air/fire/water staff. Thus, I have a law staff.

[lolcakes]

The thing has +10% damage boost... And it's F2P. Basically pwns every other staff in F2P sideways.

[rickyson1]

your math is kinda off

 

dont fire runes buy at min?

 

Nature Staff:

• Saves 1/10 of the Nature Runes used.

 

[Fire Runes: 5gp.]

[Nature Rune: 274gp.]

 

Price of 50 fire runes (10 alchs) is about 250.gp. Which is less than 274.

 

tl;dr version: You actually gain money with the Nature Staff.

[spooferfish]

Oh well alching is terrible xp anyway... I don't understand why people still train their Magic through alching.

'cuz you dont even have to look at the screen to do it...

 

And fire runes aren't hard to get, I have a lot of them from slayer, I never buy runes..

I'm after the bonegrinder though.. only 33k more tokens to go -.-

[Jehosaphat]

Oh well alching is terrible xp anyway... I don't understand why people still train their Magic through alching.

'cuz you dont even have to look at the screen to do it...

 

And fire runes aren't hard to get, I have a lot of them from slayer, I never buy runes..

I'm after the bonegrinder though.. only 33k more tokens to go -.-

Grinding for the bonegrinder, eh? \:D/

[ilovecuttingyews]

1000 alches with nature staff

900 natures x 274 gp = 246,600 GP

5000 fires x 5 gp = 25,000 GP

Total = 271,600 GP

 

1000 alches with fire staff

1000 natures x 274 gp = 274,000 GP

0 fire runes = 0 GP

Total = 274,000 GP

 

Difference = 2400 GP per 1000 alches = 2.4 GP per alch in favour of the nature staff

 

2.4 GP / 65 exp = .0369 gp/exp saved with nature staff

So if you alch from 80 - 99 (~11M exp) you will save 406,153 GP.

 

1000 super heats with nature staff

900 natures x 274 = 246,600 GP

4000 natures x 5 = 20,000 GP

Total = 266,600 GP

 

1000 super heats with fire staff

1000 natures x 274 = 274,000 GP

0 fire runes x 5 = 0 GP

Total = 274,000 GP

 

Difference = 7,400 GP per 1000 casts = 7.4 GP per cast in favour of nature staff

 

7.4 GP / 53 exp = .140 gp/exp saved with nature staff

So if you superheat from 80 - 99 (~11M exp) you will save 1,535,849 GP.

[Profins]

I don't think it works in a way that for every 9 nature runes you use, you get 1 free cast. I'm pretty sure it's just 10% chance to save it, so it would vary a little on how many you save or not.

 

Same way with monster drops, you have a chance to get drop that is 1/2500 kills, but that doesn't mean you'll get one once you kill 2500 monsters.

[ilovecuttingyews]

I don't think it works in a way that for every 9 nature runes you use, you get 1 free cast. I'm pretty sure it's just 10% chance to save it, so it would vary a little on how many you save or not.

Same way with monster drops, you have a chance to get drop that is 1/2500 kills, but that doesn't mean you'll get one once you kill 2500 monsters.

That's true, but the larger your test sample, the closer you should get to the theoredical value. With people doing 100k+ alches to 99, it's fairly safe to say that you'll save a number at least close enough to 10% that using the 10% in the math makes sense.

[Sy_Accursed]

I don't think it works in a way that for every 9 nature runes you use, you get 1 free cast. I'm pretty sure it's just 10% chance to save it, so it would vary a little on how many you save or not.

Same way with monster drops, you have a chance to get drop that is 1/2500 kills, but that doesn't mean you'll get one once you kill 2500 monsters.

That's true, but the larger your test sample, the closer you should get to the theoredical value. With people doing 100k+ alches to 99, it's fairly safe to say that you'll save a number at least close enough to 10% that using the 10% in the math makes sense.

 

True plus they say 1/10 not about 1/10 whihc suggests it will do it often enuff to be fairly accurately 1/10. Where as monster drop rates are purely player inventions

[Erichermit]

It's worth noting that "1/10" is a relatively high probability and thus unlikely for you to get a really screwed result unless you only do like 50 alchs ever. People have crazy dry streaks because of things like 1/2500 drop rates, but with a 1/10, I can almost guarantee that you will end up with a number extremely close to 10% even with only 1000 alchs. And im sure you plan on alching more than that if you buy a Nature Staff.

[J35u5_M4]

So exactly my thought: it takes ages to get the items (and when u get them they aren't even worth going for them) & the new skill is Uber boring...

I wonder why Jagex didn't wait a bit longer to release a skill actually worth doing!

 

The rewards are already worth doing for. And the new skill is actually fun with 3+ people. Challenging bosses/puzzles/tasks. :)

 

This.

 

I actually enjoy the skill A LOT when I go in a 3+ man party. Of course solo is boring, the whole dungeon is easy and annoying, but when you're with people you actually have fun with the puzzles and the bosses and stuff

[Bladewing]

I don't think it works in a way that for every 9 nature runes you use, you get 1 free cast. I'm pretty sure it's just 10% chance to save it, so it would vary a little on how many you save or not.

Same way with monster drops, you have a chance to get drop that is 1/2500 kills, but that doesn't mean you'll get one once you kill 2500 monsters.

That's true, but the larger your test sample, the closer you should get to the theoredical value. With people doing 100k+ alches to 99, it's fairly safe to say that you'll save a number at least close enough to 10% that using the 10% in the math makes sense.

 

True plus they say 1/10 not about 1/10 whihc suggests it will do it often enuff to be fairly accurately 1/10. Where as monster drop rates are purely player inventions

Any random event has an associated probability with it. Drop rates exist.

 

The nature staff saves money when you superheat. I think the law staff would save money for trollheim/ardougne/watchtower teleport and is about the same with telegrab. But of course not worth my tokens.

[Sy_Accursed]

I don't think it works in a way that for every 9 nature runes you use, you get 1 free cast. I'm pretty sure it's just 10% chance to save it, so it would vary a little on how many you save or not.

Same way with monster drops, you have a chance to get drop that is 1/2500 kills, but that doesn't mean you'll get one once you kill 2500 monsters.

That's true, but the larger your test sample, the closer you should get to the theoredical value. With people doing 100k+ alches to 99, it's fairly safe to say that you'll save a number at least close enough to 10% that using the 10% in the math makes sense.

 

True plus they say 1/10 not about 1/10 whihc suggests it will do it often enuff to be fairly accurately 1/10. Where as monster drop rates are purely player inventions

Any random event has an associated probability with it. Drop rates exist.

 

The nature staff saves money when you superheat. I think the law staff would save money for trollheim/ardougne/watchtower teleport and is about the same with telegrab. But of course not worth my tokens.

 

Monsters have drop tables where drops are picked by random number generation; no rates involved

[jjjon123]

It's got a 10% magic damage boost and it's F2P... only use it really has

 

I demand proof...

[Erichermit]

I don't think it works in a way that for every 9 nature runes you use, you get 1 free cast. I'm pretty sure it's just 10% chance to save it, so it would vary a little on how many you save or not.

Same way with monster drops, you have a chance to get drop that is 1/2500 kills, but that doesn't mean you'll get one once you kill 2500 monsters.

That's true, but the larger your test sample, the closer you should get to the theoredical value. With people doing 100k+ alches to 99, it's fairly safe to say that you'll save a number at least close enough to 10% that using the 10% in the math makes sense.

 

True plus they say 1/10 not about 1/10 whihc suggests it will do it often enuff to be fairly accurately 1/10. Where as monster drop rates are purely player inventions

Any random event has an associated probability with it. Drop rates exist.

 

The nature staff saves money when you superheat. I think the law staff would save money for trollheim/ardougne/watchtower teleport and is about the same with telegrab. But of course not worth my tokens.

 

Monsters have drop tables where drops are picked by random number generation; no rates involved

 

Please don't argue semantics like that. When people say Drop Rate, they mean Drop Probability. Everyone knows this. It's completely unnecessary to specify it.

[Sy_Accursed]

I don't think it works in a way that for every 9 nature runes you use, you get 1 free cast. I'm pretty sure it's just 10% chance to save it, so it would vary a little on how many you save or not.

Same way with monster drops, you have a chance to get drop that is 1/2500 kills, but that doesn't mean you'll get one once you kill 2500 monsters.

That's true, but the larger your test sample, the closer you should get to the theoredical value. With people doing 100k+ alches to 99, it's fairly safe to say that you'll save a number at least close enough to 10% that using the 10% in the math makes sense.

 

True plus they say 1/10 not about 1/10 whihc suggests it will do it often enuff to be fairly accurately 1/10. Where as monster drop rates are purely player inventions

Any random event has an associated probability with it. Drop rates exist.

 

The nature staff saves money when you superheat. I think the law staff would save money for trollheim/ardougne/watchtower teleport and is about the same with telegrab. But of course not worth my tokens.

 

Monsters have drop tables where drops are picked by random number generation; no rates involved

 

Please don't argue semantics like that. When people say Drop Rate, they mean Drop Probability. Everyone knows this. It's completely unnecessary to specify it.

 

The point is a drop table with random nubmer generation does not produce any repeatable "rate" of 1/2500 or w/e hence drop rates ARE an invent of players

[ghjkl]

No they are not. There is a number built into runescape that dictates the chance of something happening. If there were no drop rates, how can the game decide what drop we get?

[Sy_Accursed]

No they are not. There is a number built into runescape that dictates the chance of something happening. If there were no drop rates, how can the game decide what drop we get?

Drop table.

 

Each drop is assigned a range of numbers.

Game generates random number.

Number decides drop.

[darkpoet837]

Heh, we will just have to wait and see if they release the Tome of Flame with the next Dungeoneering update :cool:

 

I can also see the nature and law staff in PvP combat as rune holders for teleport blocks and binds. If the staff is the protected item in +1 worlds, you can keep the runes that are held by it when you die. If this is not the case, then who knows.

 

The +10% damage, if it does apply to f2p, will also increase the use of these staffs.

[Erichermit]

No they are not. There is a number built into runescape that dictates the chance of something happening. If there were no drop rates, how can the game decide what drop we get?

Drop table.

 

Each drop is assigned a range of numbers.

Game generates random number.

Number decides drop.

 

it's called probability. When someone says something like a 1/2500 drop rate, it means on average you recieve one 1/2500 of the time. We know this is not GUARENTEED. But when programming in a monster drop table, a probability rate must be chosen. All youre arguing is the semantics of what we call it.

[Sy_Accursed]

No they are not. There is a number built into runescape that dictates the chance of something happening. If there were no drop rates, how can the game decide what drop we get?

Drop table.

 

Each drop is assigned a range of numbers.

Game generates random number.

Number decides drop.

 

it's called probability. When someone says something like a 1/2500 drop rate, it means on average you recieve one 1/2500 of the time. We know this is not GUARENTEED. But when programming in a monster drop table, a probability rate must be chosen. All youre arguing is the semantics of what we call it.

 

Not really.

A Drop rates implies the odds directly trend towards that rate. As with the 1/10 rune saved for nature staff.

Monster drops never have any proven drop rates, just rough rates made up by players that never truely work.

[Erichermit]

Most of the so called "rough rates" that I actually pay attention to are ones that have been researched to a pretty heavy extent. Running this data through various statistical analysis methods generally ends in the same results, so I trust them. Your logic would suggest that it's only coincidence that people don't get visages as often as dragon platelegs, as there apparently is no probability number attached to any drops.

[Sy_Accursed]

I did not say there was nor probablity.

I said there was no drop rate that they trend towards.

[Bladewing]

I did not say there was nor probablity.

I said there was no drop rate that they trend towards.

Wow. I suggest you do a little research and educate yourself in the basics of statistics and probability. Any random event has a probability that as the sample size grows large, the observed proportion approaches.

[DarkDude]

No they are not. There is a number built into runescape that dictates the chance of something happening. If there were no drop rates, how can the game decide what drop we get?

Drop table.

 

Each drop is assigned a range of numbers.

Game generates random number.

Number decides drop.

 

it's called probability. When someone says something like a 1/2500 drop rate, it means on average you recieve one 1/2500 of the time. We know this is not GUARENTEED. But when programming in a monster drop table, a probability rate must be chosen. All youre arguing is the semantics of what we call it.

 

Not really.

A Drop rates implies the odds directly trend towards that rate. As with the 1/10 rune saved for nature staff.

Monster drops never have any proven drop rates, just rough rates made up by players that never truely work.

 

Dragon med from a fire giant is (was) a 1/16000 (most likely 16384 but can't remember if they stated that explicitly) chance as stated by a mod way back.

 

And drop rates DO exist. Say the "drop table" was split into 10 equal segments.

 

1) Coins

2) Coins

3) Iron Dagger

4) Cheese

5) Dragon med

6) fire runes

7) fire runes

8) coins

9) dragon spear

10) rune plate.

 

Now, each of those 10 slots has a 10% chance of occurring (or 1/10). The chance of coins out of that drop table is 30% or 3/10. Fire runes is a 20%, 2/10 or 1/5 chance. And thus it's got a 1/5 "drop rate". If you killed 10 of those monsters, you'd probably find you'd end up with more coins, then fire runes then whatever else and more likely than not would be missing on one of the drops, at this point maybe you got 5/10 (or 1/2) drop rate of coins. However the more you killed (say you killed 1000) this number would eventually graduate towards the rate of 3/10. While it would never be perfect, the bigger the sample size the one things tend to go towards their drop rate.

 

Now expand that list, make it so it's split up into 5000 segments for example, now if an abyssal whip takes up two of those segments, it has a 2/5000 or a 1/2500 drop rate (or drop chance).