105 replies to this topic

[PereGrin]

When has woodcutting ever been a good moneymaker? I think that was the time when half the population in RS was cutting Yews and and continued to alch the then fletched Longbows...
You say it is supply and demand, and you are right: We demand it and the bots supply it...

One money maker being faster then the other is indeed not a problem... UNLESS you try to prove that the focus shifts away form skilling and unto combat in the entire spectrum of it (which was Storm's point all a long)... And even then, noone cuts oak logs when they can cut yews, same reason why worlds are crowded in the GWD but not at cockatrices... Fail arguments...

But as I said; await with the comments on that until ive written my artice on it (should appear about October)...

Yew logs are as high now as they've ever been and they're still only ~110k gp/hr in the best of circumstances. If that was ever a good moneymaker, the alternatives must have been pretty crappy. Woodcutting is terrible for money and has been for as long as I can remember. Same with fishing.

Anyway, what I mean is that "A is a faster moneymaker than B" does not imply "The focus of the game is shifting away from B." Skills are still important. In fact, I would argue skills are now more important than ever with the introduction of dungeoneering to make use of previously-useless skills like smithing, as well as updates like the high-level herblore potions.

Oh, and these combat moneymakers that are so thoroughly trouncing noncombat skills are (with the exception of the frost dragons, which are more of a "dungeoneering" moneymaker anyway) bosses, which should not be equated with "combat" in general. Ordinary combat moneymakers like dragons are still roughly on par with or slower than noncombat skills like hunter, mining, herblore, or runecrafting.

Yew Logs, Flax and Nature Runes were once the backbone of the GP influx rate in RuneScape, and I'm guessing this was the case about 3 years ago... Sharks were 1k a piece then, and then bots invaded, bringing it down to 300gp a piece...

Dungeoneering may make skilling more important then before Dungeoneering, but you only need the level... It does not matter to the current argument...
People dont skill anymore to make money AT ALL, they all opt for the faster XP option, and let bots do the gathering...

And its not just bosses... Its lower level monsters too, like Green Dragons (650k per hour), Blue Dragons (400k-500k) Spiritual mages (500k), Aviansies (400k-600k), Dagganoths (500k), Aberant Spectres (500k-1m), and none of these are boss monsters... And this is without any Clues incorporated...

To compare that with an AWESOME and HIGH level (91+) skilling money maker of Double Nature runes: 800k an hour...
Bots keep the prices of Red Chinchompa's low, w84 does the same with Gold Ore, and Herblore only LOSES money... Even if you referred to farming herbs, and add that to other skilling money makers, it does not compare to the better money makers with combat...

Op top of that; for skilling to be a good money maker, you have to have high levels (80+ is a minimum)... For combat money makers? Not neccisarily so ...


So all in all; the writer is EXACTLY implying what you say cant be implied... The focus is shifting from skilling to combat throughout the game, and HE didnt even need the economic proof to make his point... I did it just to add that extra oomph...

I don't think I have ever seen someone with sub 80 combat levels actually make huge amounts of money MHing. Unless of course you include green and blue drags, aviansies, and ab specs. And usually people with 83+ slayer have much higher combat levels then 80. At least from all the people I've seen down there.

As for me, I don't really quantify the money earned skilling in a gp/hour ratio. I fail at maxing out my profit per hour skilling, as I usually do it while I do something else. I (and I believe I am not alone in this) usually reckon the money earned while skilling as profit per xp. So if I was going to get 99 fishing, I wouldn't worry about making the max amount per hour, I would do monks to 85, cave fish to 90, and rocktail to 99. Then I would add up all the money I earned getting that much fishing xp. And I would probably do homework and other things the entire time.

So my profit per hour would be low skilling, but while doing other stuff, I may only spend 15 minutes every hour fishing, in total. Just enough to bank and switch fishing spots. And for this, I would gain roughly 75% of the max profit per hour fishing, while only actually spending 25% of the time fishing. This would bring fishing up in profit per hour quite a bit.

Lets think here, I've seen plenty of level 30s making 200K an hour at flesh crawlers which with an equivalent fishing level they wouldn't even come close to that amount. Furthermore, how on earth can you discount green dragons, specters, aviansies and their ilk? Thats probably the biggest part of monster hunting. As for those with high levels, they can do activities such as barrows, gwd, td's and high level slayer monsters that simply just blow skilling out of the water. The point is that in order to make more money than someone your level doing spectres, drags etc they would have to have like 99 hunter and be no-lifing grenwalls or some such. Even then, tds would put them to shame

Now, as for the "afk value of fishing" or whatever that you seem to put in such high regard, Its obvious that giant skeletons or bandits might be more your speed.

I use MHing to refer to bosses.

I was just using fishing as an example of how profit per hour is actually higher then it seems, because I suspect the majority of people who fish, train woodcutting, or other skills of the same type, train them in this manner. They spend little time actually performing the skill, and they still are able to perform at a decent efficiency while spending far less time actually "skilling". This is exactly the case with farming.

I have done the majority of my melee training through slayer, with the occasional chunk of xp gotten while camping for drops such as black masks, whips, tokkul, or charms.

Also, as troacctid stated, high gp/hour rates can be obtained in farming ranarrs, or making unf pots. Neither of these takes very long to achieve, ranarrs are 32 farming, and you can make unf pots almost immediately after finishing druidic ritual. This is slower xp with much higher monetary yield. The same goes for boss hunting, the xp/hour isn't really that great at bandos, armadyl, TDs, or corp. But the profit is much higher.

[HeadBandit64]

Also, as troacctid stated, high gp/hour rates can be obtained in farming ranarrs, or making unf pots. Neither of these takes very long to achieve, ranarrs are 32 farming, and you can make unf pots almost immediately after finishing druidic ritual. This is slower xp with much higher monetary yield. The same goes for boss hunting, the xp/hour isn't really that great at bandos, armadyl, TDs, or corp. But the profit is much higher.

In my humble opinion farming is the exception that proves the rule, what do you do in between the farming runs... I certainly hope its not watching grass grow (pun intended). In those 80 minutes you could either skill or monster hunt, so which one would be greater profit.

As for the shift of the focus being towards combat, you just proved it. Fast skilling xp (as stated previously as well) and high profit from combat.... its what everyone wanted now why does it feel so wrong?

[PereGrin]

Also, as troacctid stated, high gp/hour rates can be obtained in farming ranarrs, or making unf pots. Neither of these takes very long to achieve, ranarrs are 32 farming, and you can make unf pots almost immediately after finishing druidic ritual. This is slower xp with much higher monetary yield. The same goes for boss hunting, the xp/hour isn't really that great at bandos, armadyl, TDs, or corp. But the profit is much higher.

In my humble opinion farming is the exception that proves the rule, what do you do in between the farming runs... I certainly hope its not watching grass grow (pun intended). In those 80 minutes you could either skill or monster hunt, so which one would be greater profit.

As for the shift of the focus being towards combat, you just proved it. Fast skilling xp (as stated previously as well) and high profit from combat.... its what everyone wanted now why does it feel so wrong?

Actually, I said slow skilling xp, for much higher profit.

[strilmus]

But, if positive changes in skilling mean just speeding it up, doesn't that kind of imply that the main goal you would want in skilling is to be done with it, rather than wanting to skill? It just kind of pushes the issue aside.

If they want to make combat the main focus, then they may as well just outright say that they expect everybody to participate in combat most of the time and remove most of the arbitrarily imposed barriers that make skilling tedious, just so that everybody else can get back to fighting instead of imagining that they can actually get anywhere just by skilling without combat. All this pandering makes me think that they enjoy lying and trying to make something their game isn't rather than actually trying to work with what it is. They want to be like the other games. Any statements they make about giving skillers a fair shake can be taken as just lip service so you'll keep playing.

Am I missing the point now?

[vox1st]

well, I would say its a crazy world really. For skills, after the GE, any raw materials became more expensive. I remember selling coal for 150g each as a f2p(which usually had higher prices than P2P) and now its over 250g per coal. So smithing profits began to vanish. So did cooking and herblore and other creation skills. Gathering skills like fishing still retain money making, but since it is easier to level up, people are willing to pay less for the over abundance. But its still actually just a matter of what you prefer to do. I think it is obvious that after a point, the combat player would not pay a certain price for a shark. If they had to pay 2k for a cooked shark, I am sure they would find their own food, or use something cheaper. Likewise, if all the fishers get fed up and quit fishing, then there is less supply, so then the combat people will pay more to get their food more quickly. So however it works out, its ultimately up to how many people choose to do what activities. If you remember, after the living rock caverns opened, many fishers went in to fish this new set of superior fish. This took away from how many shark fishers there were, so prices rose. The diversifying of activities makes prices go up on certain skiller items. But I think the real reason combat is better to make money, is because the lower level players, even CB 70 and below don't realize that combat is actually a way to gain combat levels and make great money, being used to mediocre monsters that don't drop anything worth while. I know I was shocked when I learned combat is so good at making money.

[Obtaurian]

But, if positive changes in skilling mean just speeding it up, doesn't that kind of imply that the main goal you would want in skilling is to be done with it, rather than wanting to skill? It just kind of pushes the issue aside.

If they want to make combat the main focus, then they may as well just outright say that they expect everybody to participate in combat most of the time and remove most of the arbitrarily imposed barriers that make skilling tedious, just so that everybody else can get back to fighting instead of imagining that they can actually get anywhere just by skilling without combat. All this pandering makes me think that they enjoy lying and trying to make something their game isn't rather than actually trying to work with what it is. They want to be like the other games. Any statements they make about giving skillers a fair shake can be taken as just lip service so you'll keep playing.

Am I missing the point now?

Combat really has always been the main focus of Runescape. I don't think Jagex is lying by not putting a disclaimer on the main site (that's a pretty ludicrous accusation, actually). Quests, PVP, most activities, and the fact that almost all skilling results in combat-related products is a pretty big hint. Can you get by in Runescape by just skilling? Absolutely; there's nothing you can't get if you skill enough, but the most expensive skilling tool is a dragon pickaxe, whereas divine spirit shields and other combat-related gear is far more expensive, and rightfully so.

You can do anything you want in Runescape and get by at a reasonable pace (unless you chop yews for money). Combat is a high risk, high return venture. Skilling isn't. It balances out nicely.

[strilmus]

I'm not really convinced that it's a high risk venture if there are posts discussing at length how people need to crash each other at monster hunting spots in order to cope with overcrowding.

Also "anything you want except you'll be crushed by inflation if you're not monster hunting" isn't exactly the answer I was looking for.

I'm not against having just another game that is largely focused on combat, I just don't want to be told that you have the freedom to do otherwise and still be playing the game instead of being somebody else's footstool to the best content.

[das]

No one plays this game and doesn't have fun.

I can guarantee you that they do.

Introduce me to them sometime, that's all I'm going to say on this topic.

Hi, I play this game only because of friendships i've made, I find it boring as hell when they are not online and logout out of boredom quickly.

[Viv]

yeh with effigies and clue scrolls itseems like combat is the only thing that gets u ahead in this gmae lol

and for bosses they have higher droprates of effigies its more effiecient to camp tds and use effiges on rc than grahak and even zmi >.>

i guess its a good point when ur doing rocktail ur not really fishing but afking or w/e but u can kinda afk slayer monsters and they give good gp/hr

i think bosshunting especcially solo is pretty fair in the money it gives though as you have to get the money for decent gear and have to pay attention whole time , deal with other players......and not gaining exp..


but it sucks that cant make any good money skilling sure u can say oh i make 1b getting 200m fish on rocktail oh i make xb getting 200m rc exp off deaths but if you monsterhunted in that time ud have way more

so basicly its bosshunt for money and then power through skills

[Obtaurian]

I'm not really convinced that it's a high risk venture if there are posts discussing at length how people need to crash each other at monster hunting spots in order to cope with overcrowding.

What? The only correlation between the risk and competition is that your competition will sometimes try to get you killed. And how are you not convinced that it's a high risk venture? If you die at GWD, you lose your stuff. If you die at DKs, you lose your stuff unless some nice guy in bursting lobs decides to help you. TDs is really the only place where you're pretty much guaranteed to get your stuff back.

Also "anything you want except you'll be crushed by inflation if you're not monster hunting" isn't exactly the answer I was looking for.

Inflation doesn't have anything to do with it. Profits from MHing are a little less than five times the profits from skilling, which is a pretty good ratio, all things considered.

I'm not against having just another game that is largely focused on combat, I just don't want to be told that you have the freedom to do otherwise and still be playing the game instead of being somebody else's footstool to the best content.

As far as I know, Jagex has always promoted a rounded gaming experience. They don't want you to spend all of your time skilling. If all you want to do is skill, you should expect very little sympathy. Sorry, but that's how it is.

[Jonanananas]

I'm not really convinced that it's a high risk venture if there are posts discussing at length how people need to crash each other at monster hunting spots in order to cope with overcrowding.

What? The only correlation between the risk and competition is that your competition will sometimes try to get you killed. And how are you not convinced that it's a high risk venture? If you die at GWD, you lose your stuff. If you die at DKs, you lose your stuff unless some nice guy in bursting lobs decides to help you. TDs is really the only place where you're pretty much guaranteed to get your stuff back.

If you go solo at GWD, you won't get your stuff back. But, if you go solo, you probably will be experienced enough with it so that you normally don't die when you apply some attention to it. I don't really know about DKs, I won't comment here.
But it's not all about Boss hunting. what's with green dragons? Easy money even at low levels if you know what you're doing, and don' tell me that it's soo risky there.
I personally could never get near 1m/h with unfinished pots, maybe with herb farming(not really my cup of tea here )




About the economic stuff: Grant you, I'm really not an expert in this. All I can comment on is what I see. And what I do see are inflated prices slowly coming down(e.g. armadyl gs)
Maybe I'm missing some hint here, can be, if you don't want to comment about this because of the upcoming article, then I'm looking forward to that one. Still, as the average RS player, the economy currently looks pretty ok to me, when some months ago even I could see that something is wrong.

Also, apparently Jagex has no measure to deal with those bots. That's sad, but you can't just calculate the economy without them. If they do supply us with sharks, then it's sad, but you have to calculate it when we're talking about economical situations. And seriously, it's no wonder that so few real players want to fish sharks, with them at less than 1k each and terribly slow.

[strilmus]

So, if you monster hunt all the time, you have to skill at some point?

[Obtaurian]

So, if you monster hunt all the time, you have to skill at some point?

Herblore, dungeoneering, completing WGS, 70 agility for SGWD, etc. So, yes.

If you go solo at GWD, you won't get your stuff back. But, if you go solo, you probably will be experienced enough with it so that you normally don't die when you apply some attention to it.

There's always a chance of being combo'd, but the biggest threat is lag and DCing. If you lag and get combo'd, you're done. If you DC, you're done.

EDIT:

But it's not all about Boss hunting. what's with green dragons? Easy money even at low levels if you know what you're doing, and don' tell me that it's soo risky there.
I personally could never get near 1m/h with unfinished pots, maybe with herb farming(not really my cup of tea here )

Skilling makes more money than green dragons with much less effort unless you have a very high combat level (and if you do, why are you at green dragons?).

[Jonanananas]

Meh, you have a point lol.

[Hegelstad]

Regarding the last article, my enjoyment and amusement of the game is the rewards, that's what keeping me thrilled!

[Sir_Kurity]

In there current state, i dont know how jagex would ever make skilling more profitable outside removing bots. Or if they even want to.

Personally, i think GWD should thump woodcutting for profit, the biggest problem here is bots which devalue skills to the point where it is rarely worth your time, money or XP-wise.

Its why i havent skilled for money in a while, all i do is powerfish/cut because i know that, for money. My time is much better spent elsewhere.

[Riayll]

I love the part about having fun since the Treasure Trails brought me back into the game.

[MstrMonopoly]

It's certainly possible to make decent money through skilling. Maybe not the 4-5m/hr that boss hunting can give, but you can definitely make like 2m/hr, which isn't exactly hurting yourself.

Honestly, if anything, RS needs a new boss.

[Racheya]

How on earth do you make 2m/hr with skilling?

[MstrMonopoly]

How on earth do you make 2m/hr with skilling?

Farming herbs, picking trees, making (unf) pots, Puro-Puro if you have a decent amount of luck, making summoning scrolls (doesn't directly involve combat).