Tip.It Times - 8th August 2010

[Racheya 19]

Time for a new release of the: >>>Tip.It Times!<<<

 

When replying please make sure to clarify the article you are replying to! Thanks!

 

If you spot any typos or mistakes in the article then please PM them to me :)

 

Enjoy the articles!

[TeamDanAlex 0]

:D

[EmEss 0]

Pretty interesting stuff this time around... :thumbsup:

[Danqazmlp 7]

Both articles represent almost exactly the same views as I have.

 

1. I have said it in numerous threads recently that Mh'ing's profit has raised over tenfold where skilling profit has remained fairly constant. Some people including myself find boss hunting fairly boring. We are then forced to have lower profits if we want to make money but still have fun.

 

2. This has been the problem for ages, and the problem is, those who see others bored by the game but still playing will find it absolutely absurd, yet those who are bored will end up saying "my life I can do what I want" or "why do you care?". On the inside they don't seem to be able to see it.

[Diomedus 0]

I recently realized I was in danger of becoming a drone that the second article talked about.

 

The 99s I have I achieved while making homework more bearable. The only 99s I will get are ones that I will enjoy along the way.

 

I am glad that the message is getting out there. IT'S A FREAKING GAME, MEANT FOR ENJOYMENT!

 

I will grind only to be able to finish a quest or something. I won't get a 99 for the sake of having a 99.

[Bladewing 1]

I hate the mindset that the author of article #2 has, and it's becoming increasingly more prevalent: "People who kill bosses have no fun and just want gp! The way I play Runescape is way more fun and that should be the only way people play!" Who the hell says I don't have fun killing abyssal demons, and why do I have to pick flax and make bowstrings to have fun?

[Danqazmlp 7]

I hate the mindset that the author of article #2 has, and it's becoming increasingly more prevalent: "People who kill bosses have no fun and just want gp! The way I play Runescape is way more fun and that should be the only way people play!" Who the hell says I don't have fun killing abyssal demons, and why do I have to pick flax and make bowstrings to have fun?

 

 

The author is not saying that at all, you have totally misread it. The author is not saying what is and isn't fun, but that those who don't have fun probably shouldn't be playing. The author highlights those who play just for the rewards even when the journey makes them want to hurl. If you enjoy monster hunting then great, but if you don't enjoy it, then don't do it.

[Bladewing 1]

No one plays this game and doesn't have fun.

[Danqazmlp 7]

No one plays this game and doesn't have fun.

 

 

I can guarantee you that they do.

[Bladewing 1]

No one plays this game and doesn't have fun.

 

 

I can guarantee you that they do.

Introduce me to them sometime, that's all I'm going to say on this topic.

[Wingless 0]

I hate the mindset that the author of article #2 has, and it's becoming increasingly more prevalent: "People who kill bosses have no fun and just want gp! The way I play Runescape is way more fun and that should be the only way people play!" Who the hell says I don't have fun killing abyssal demons, and why do I have to pick flax and make bowstrings to have fun?

 

You've got the wrong idea.

He is referring to TET Events. Now re-read the article and have your mind refer back to 'TET Events' every now and then.

[Sesquialtera 0]

I hate the mindset that the author of article #2 has, and it's becoming increasingly more prevalent: "People who kill bosses have no fun and just want gp! The way I play Runescape is way more fun and that should be the only way people play!" Who the hell says I don't have fun killing abyssal demons, and why do I have to pick flax and make bowstrings to have fun?

 

 

The author is not saying that at all, you have totally misread it. The author is not saying what is and isn't fun, but that those who don't have fun probably shouldn't be playing. The author highlights those who play just for the rewards even when the journey makes them want to hurl. If you enjoy monster hunting then great, but if you don't enjoy it, then don't do it.

 

THIS. That is what I realized recently, and I'm okay with the fact that I probably will never get any 99s. I like questing, penguin hunting, and things like that...I can only grind away at skills for so long before my mind goes numb. Though, I do enjoy the occasional slayer assignment. ;)

[Danqazmlp 7]

No one plays this game and doesn't have fun.

 

 

I can guarantee you that they do.

Introduce me to them sometime, that's all I'm going to say on this topic.

 

Go to rogues den and ask who is having fun and enjoying themselves. I would bet that not all of them will be. The same if you asked people the same question to people who are firemaking or fletching.

[Jonanananas 33]

Excellent Articles this week!

I wholeheartedly agree with both authors' views, and apart from that the style was very good, a pleasure to read.

 

So, first article: Only recently, there was another instance of this. The Impling Spawn Spots on Mos'le Harmless were nerfed. While I don't have a hunter level high enough to be affected myself, I can understand how Hunters are upset about this. Puro Puro is crowded 24/7 and red Chins...we all know what is up there. Those spots were nothing really over the top - about 1-1.5m/h (not like the resource dungeon was). It is very good money, but you can get that at high combat levels relatively easy. AND in combat you have the chance for the "big drop", something not there for skillers at all.

Jagex has always been on the stance "more risk, more money", but how much risk is there really? Of course it's higher than with normal skilling, but if you go for most Money-making combat methods, you simply don't die if you spare at least some attention to what you're doing(I'm typing this post while fighting iron dragons.). And you need to apply the same attention, if not even more, in order to use good non-combat skilling methods. And even if you do die in combat, we still have Gravestones, lasting 6 minutes, enough to get everywhere but the most distant places. And there are always other players to repair and to bless.

So, the risk actually doesn't justify the bias toward combat.

 

Just one part I do not agree with: "Since these skills (construction in particular) are often gold sinks, Jagex may have unwittingly further prompted the rate of in game inflation, as less gold leaves the land of Gielinor."

Essentially you are right, but it doesn't really matter. Jagex has done a very good job with managing inflation, it is next to no problem anymore(although we should be in a crisis as a certain update flooded the economy with ultra-gazillions of gp, right?). Also, the argument doesn't fit here. Your article is not about the economic situation, and I wonder why everybody feels the need to argue with at least one economic argument, no matter what subject. Your argument here is weak, therefore it puts your other arguments in a rather bad light, I would simply not mention it.

 

Second Article: As you can see, I personally have a adequate high total level, yet only 99, and even that only recently. This is due to the reason that once I get bored with something, I quit it. I like Runescape, and I like skilling. But I can get bored from everything I like, and when I do get bored, I don't want to ruin the fun I'll have, so I quit doing it. I once made that fault, and did quit Runescape after cutting and burning willow logs for 5 days straight. I do not plan on making it again.

I don't know why some do play a game which seemingly doesn't yield any fun. And I am shocked to see how large the percentage actually is.

[PereGrin 10]

No one plays this game and doesn't have fun.

 

 

I can guarantee you that they do.

Introduce me to them sometime, that's all I'm going to say on this topic.

 

Go to rogues den and ask who is having fun and enjoying themselves. I would bet that not all of them will be. The same if you asked people the same question to people who are firemaking or fletching.

They may not be having fun at that moment. But why don't you ask them if they have ever had fun playing this game. People do things not because it is fun at that instant, but because it will be fun later, or was fun before. Yes, I hate firemaking, it is not fun. But EE was well worth it, and thus, I did have fun, just not lighting logs.

 

No one starts playing runescape and says "This is the most boring thing ever, I think I will come back here and play for the next 3 and 1/2 years, just so I can gripe and whine while I get 99 cooking, fletching, woodcutting, and firemaking."

 

A girl in my clan got 99 cooking at rogues den a bit ago. She didn't have fun doing it, I can guarantee that. I was a primary conversation partner with her via cc while she was roasting sharks. But now she has this cool new cape, and the ability to make a host of new outfits with it. (I guess somebody has to like that color purple, even if I don't) That is how she had fun.

 

Just because someone is not having fun at that time does not mean they do not have fun playing Runescape.

 

No one plays Runescape and does not have fun.

 

 

OT:

 

For the first article, it makes sense, but I do not see an easy fix. I do not see a way that Jagex can make skilling earn anything on par with MHing without causing huge inflation (while mining, you uncover a ancient artifact, swap it in at edge bank to Mandrith for money)

 

Since most people find that having large amounts of money is far preferable to being permanently broke, quite a few people train skills in fast manners in order to finish quickly and get to making lots of money.

[aspeeder 56]

Great articles this week <3: , I particularly enjoyed the second one since I always try to enjoy myself while I train (Hence why I never train rc'ing lol).

[Danqazmlp 7]

They may not be having fun at that moment. But why don't you ask them if they have ever had fun playing this game. People do things not because it is fun at that instant, but because it will be fun later, or was fun before. Yes, I hate firemaking, it is not fun. But EE was well worth it, and thus, I did have fun, just not lighting logs.

 

No one starts playing runescape and says "This is the most boring thing ever, I think I will come back here and play for the next 3 and 1/2 years, just so I can gripe and whine while I get 99 cooking, fletching, woodcutting, and firemaking."

 

A girl in my clan got 99 cooking at rogues den a bit ago. She didn't have fun doing it, I can guarantee that. I was a primary conversation partner with her via cc while she was roasting sharks. But now she has this cool new cape, and the ability to make a host of new outfits with it. (I guess somebody has to like that color purple, even if I don't) That is how she had fun.

 

Just because someone is not having fun at that time does not mean they do not have fun playing Runescape.

 

No one plays Runescape and does not have fun.

 

 

OT:

 

For the first article, it makes sense, but I do not see an easy fix. I do not see a way that Jagex can make skilling earn anything on par with MHing without causing huge inflation (while mining, you uncover a ancient artifact, swap it in at edge bank to Mandrith for money)

 

Since most people find that having large amounts of money is far preferable to being permanently broke, quite a few people train skills in fast manners in order to finish quickly and get to making lots of money.

 

 

How can you say that no one players runescape and does not have fun when in your statement you say you did not have fun while firemaking? That is the point of the whole article I think. People are willing to play a game where they are not having fun to have something small such as a cape at the end. Is it really worth it to spend hours of boredom for a pixelated item such as that, when you can be having much more fun going to a TET event for example?

[SirHartlar 0]

How can you say that no one players runescape and does not have fun when in your statement you say you did not have fun while firemaking? That is the point of the whole article I think. People are willing to play a game where they are not having fun to have something small such as a cape at the end. Is it really worth it to spend hours of boredom for a pixelated item such as that, when you can be having much more fun going to a TET event for example?

 

Well clearly it is or else people wouldn't do it. There is the whole argument that you should enjoy the journey not the reward, but the nature of RS being a grind fest means it hardly works out that way in reality.

[jettrider 1]

First article: good, and to keep up with the combat updates, noncombat updates are going to have to raise the best experience rates quite dramatically. Follow up with an article expanding on that.

 

Second: recycled material on having "fun" in RuneScape that appears every other week. Seriously, go through the archives.

[Troacctid 134]

Of course noncombat skills look pathetic if you consider fishing and woodcutting to be your representation of a noncombat moneymaker. They're terrible profit. When have they ever been good?

 

I really don't see any problem with the current paradigm. Moneymaking isn't automatically faster or slower just because you do or don't kill things. It's supply and demand. Anyway, I didn't see any mention of the combat moneymakers that aren't super-fast, like killing chickens or hobgoblins or cockatrices. One moneymaker being faster than another moneymaker is not a problem.

 

Edit: On the other article, meh...it's not that it's poorly-written or anything, but it seems like at least half of all editorials about Runescape are pseudo-rants on how nobody plays for fun anymore. As far as those articles go, it's one of the better ones because the author has chosen to focus mainly on people looking for rewards from TET events, which is absolutely a valid context. I generally resent people preaching about "Guys this is a GAME it's supposed to be FUN," because I see it as stating the obvious...equivalent in my eyes to "Guys, this is an ONLINE game you need INTERNET to play it," or "Guys, swords are WEAPONS, they're made for FIGHTING." Just a pointless thing to say. But even I would facepalm at somebody who goes to a TET event asking for rewards.

[Ts_Stormrage 66]

Just one part I do not agree with: "Since these skills (construction in particular) are often gold sinks, Jagex may have unwittingly further prompted the rate of in game inflation, as less gold leaves the land of Gielinor."

Essentially you are right, but it doesn't really matter. Jagex has done a very good job with managing inflation, it is next to no problem anymore(although we should be in a crisis as a certain update flooded the economy with ultra-gazillions of gp, right?). Also, the argument doesn't fit here. Your article is not about the economic situation, and I wonder why everybody feels the need to argue with at least one economic argument, no matter what subject. Your argument here is weak, therefore it puts your other arguments in a rather bad light, I would simply not mention it.

 

Jagex has done [bleep]all to curb inflation... And the crisis has hit in such a way that we have hit a tipping point that Stormveritas has pointed out very well in this article:

 

The focus has shifted away from skilling (truly skilling) and unto combat, and the only reason that prices of sharks and what not hasn't exploded is the armies and armies of bots...

 

He didn't touch on the economic stuff, because thats an upcoming article by yours truly, with a lot more that pretty much says "Welcome to WoWscape"

 

Of course noncombat skills look pathetic if you consider fishing and woodcutting to be your representation of a noncombat moneymaker. They're terrible profit. When have they ever been good?

 

I really don't see any problem with the current paradigm. Moneymaking isn't automatically faster or slower just because you do or don't kill things. It's supply and demand. Anyway, I didn't see any mention of the combat moneymakers that aren't super-fast, like killing chickens or hobgoblins or cockatrices. One moneymaker being faster than another moneymaker is not a problem.

 

When has woodcutting ever been a good moneymaker? I think that was the time when half the population in RS was cutting Yews and and continued to alch the then fletched Longbows...

You say it is supply and demand, and you are right: We demand it and the bots supply it...

 

One money maker being faster then the other is indeed not a problem... UNLESS you try to prove that the focus shifts away form skilling and unto combat in the entire spectrum of it (which was Storm's point all a long)... And even then, noone cuts oak logs when they can cut yews, same reason why worlds are crowded in the GWD but not at cockatrices... Fail arguments...

 

But as I said; await with the comments on that until ive written my artice on it (should appear about October)...

[PereGrin 10]

[hide]

No one plays this game and doesn't have fun.

 

 

I can guarantee you that they do.

Introduce me to them sometime, that's all I'm going to say on this topic.

 

Go to rogues den and ask who is having fun and enjoying themselves. I would bet that not all of them will be. The same if you asked people the same question to people who are firemaking or fletching.

They may not be having fun at that moment. But why don't you ask them if they have ever had fun playing this game. People do things not because it is fun at that instant, but because it will be fun later, or was fun before. Yes, I hate firemaking, it is not fun. But EE was well worth it, and thus, I did have fun, just not lighting logs.

 

No one starts playing runescape and says "This is the most boring thing ever, I think I will come back here and play for the next 3 and 1/2 years, just so I can gripe and whine while I get 99 cooking, fletching, woodcutting, and firemaking."

 

A girl in my clan got 99 cooking at rogues den a bit ago. She didn't have fun doing it, I can guarantee that. I was a primary conversation partner with her via cc while she was roasting sharks. But now she has this cool new cape, and the ability to make a host of new outfits with it. (I guess somebody has to like that color purple, even if I don't) That is how she had fun.

 

Just because someone is not having fun at that time does not mean they do not have fun playing Runescape.

 

No one plays Runescape and does not have fun.

 

 

OT:

 

For the first article, it makes sense, but I do not see an easy fix. I do not see a way that Jagex can make skilling earn anything on par with MHing without causing huge inflation (while mining, you uncover a ancient artifact, swap it in at edge bank to Mandrith for money)

 

Since most people find that having large amounts of money is far preferable to being permanently broke, quite a few people train skills in fast manners in order to finish quickly and get to making lots of money.

 

 

How can you say that no one players runescape and does not have fun when in your statement you say you did not have fun while firemaking? That is the point of the whole article I think. People are willing to play a game where they are not having fun to have something small such as a cape at the end. Is it really worth it to spend hours of boredom for a pixelated item such as that, when you can be having much more fun going to a TET event for example?

[/hide]

I can say that because I am not stuck on the idea that "fun" means instant gratification.

 

You seem to dislike people who spend time doing something that you do not find enjoyable, in order to achieve something that they desire. And yet, when I check your stats, I see a prominent trio of 99s, namly cooking, woodcutting, and fletching. I mean, "Is it really worth it to spend hours of boredom for a pixelated item such as that"?

 

Also, just because I was not having fun firemaking does not mean that I wallow in a pit of boredom while playing this game. I was not having "fun" (your definition applies here, as best as I can gather) while firemaking, but not enjoying something is more like the normal order of things.

 

Just because someone is bored/unhappy at some point in time does not automatically lock them into hating their existence for eternity. I do have fun playing Runescape, I have lots of fun in fact. I just do not enjoy firemaking. However, it is a necessary evil in order to further my own enjoyment.

[Daavorian 0]

I agree with PereGrin. I know a lot of people who grind for the reward. And it's disingenuous to say that therefore they should not be playing the game because it's the journey not the reward or some other meaningless platitude. What's fun is the many journeys you get to have after it.

[Danqazmlp 7]

[hide]

No one plays this game and doesn't have fun.

 

 

I can guarantee you that they do.

Introduce me to them sometime, that's all I'm going to say on this topic.

 

Go to rogues den and ask who is having fun and enjoying themselves. I would bet that not all of them will be. The same if you asked people the same question to people who are firemaking or fletching.

They may not be having fun at that moment. But why don't you ask them if they have ever had fun playing this game. People do things not because it is fun at that instant, but because it will be fun later, or was fun before. Yes, I hate firemaking, it is not fun. But EE was well worth it, and thus, I did have fun, just not lighting logs.

 

No one starts playing runescape and says "This is the most boring thing ever, I think I will come back here and play for the next 3 and 1/2 years, just so I can gripe and whine while I get 99 cooking, fletching, woodcutting, and firemaking."

 

A girl in my clan got 99 cooking at rogues den a bit ago. She didn't have fun doing it, I can guarantee that. I was a primary conversation partner with her via cc while she was roasting sharks. But now she has this cool new cape, and the ability to make a host of new outfits with it. (I guess somebody has to like that color purple, even if I don't) That is how she had fun.

 

Just because someone is not having fun at that time does not mean they do not have fun playing Runescape.

 

No one plays Runescape and does not have fun.

 

 

OT:

 

For the first article, it makes sense, but I do not see an easy fix. I do not see a way that Jagex can make skilling earn anything on par with MHing without causing huge inflation (while mining, you uncover a ancient artifact, swap it in at edge bank to Mandrith for money)

 

Since most people find that having large amounts of money is far preferable to being permanently broke, quite a few people train skills in fast manners in order to finish quickly and get to making lots of money.

 

 

How can you say that no one players runescape and does not have fun when in your statement you say you did not have fun while firemaking? That is the point of the whole article I think. People are willing to play a game where they are not having fun to have something small such as a cape at the end. Is it really worth it to spend hours of boredom for a pixelated item such as that, when you can be having much more fun going to a TET event for example?

[/hide]

I can say that because I am not stuck on the idea that "fun" means instant gratification.

 

You seem to dislike people who spend time doing something that you do not find enjoyable, in order to achieve something that they desire. And yet, when I check your stats, I see a prominent trio of 99s, namly cooking, woodcutting, and fletching. I mean, "Is it really worth it to spend hours of boredom for a pixelated item such as that"?

 

Also, just because I was not having fun firemaking does not mean that I wallow in a pit of boredom while playing this game. I was not having "fun" (your definition applies here, as best as I can gather) while firemaking, but not enjoying something is more like the normal order of things.

 

Just because someone is bored/unhappy at some point in time does not automatically lock them into hating their existence for eternity. I do have fun playing Runescape, I have lots of fun in fact. I just do not enjoy firemaking. However, it is a necessary evil in order to further my own enjoyment.

 

 

I think you are looking at the wrong account, I have none of those skills at 99, or even remotely high.

 

Cooking 190,434 87 4,264,065

Woodcutting 620,504 79 1,854,745

Fletching 392,324 80 1,986,267

 

I don't dislike those who do things they don't find fun, heck I have done it a few times in the past. You seem to be grasping the wrong end of the stick, I'm not trying to offend people saying it is wrong or they shouldn't play like that, I am simply asking and discussing, is it actually worth it for us to play like that?

 

Have people lost the ability to have pure fun without item based reward? Are skillcapes really worth it? When training the skill they often seem it, but when you actually obtain them, does it feel like a waste?

[Troacctid 134]

When has woodcutting ever been a good moneymaker? I think that was the time when half the population in RS was cutting Yews and and continued to alch the then fletched Longbows...

You say it is supply and demand, and you are right: We demand it and the bots supply it...

 

One money maker being faster then the other is indeed not a problem... UNLESS you try to prove that the focus shifts away form skilling and unto combat in the entire spectrum of it (which was Storm's point all a long)... And even then, noone cuts oak logs when they can cut yews, same reason why worlds are crowded in the GWD but not at cockatrices... Fail arguments...

 

But as I said; await with the comments on that until ive written my artice on it (should appear about October)...

Yew logs are as high now as they've ever been and they're still only ~110k gp/hr in the best of circumstances. If that was ever a good moneymaker, the alternatives must have been pretty crappy. Woodcutting is terrible for money and has been for as long as I can remember. Same with fishing.

 

Anyway, what I mean is that "A is a faster moneymaker than B" does not imply "The focus of the game is shifting away from B." Skills are still important. In fact, I would argue skills are now more important than ever with the introduction of dungeoneering to make use of previously-useless skills like smithing, as well as updates like the high-level herblore potions.

 

Oh, and these combat moneymakers that are so thoroughly trouncing noncombat skills are (with the exception of the frost dragons, which are more of a "dungeoneering" moneymaker anyway) bosses, which should not be equated with "combat" in general. Ordinary combat moneymakers like dragons are still roughly on par with or slower than noncombat skills like hunter, mining, herblore, or runecrafting.