Philosophy, Riddles and complete mind[bleep]s

[DiscoShazam]

It's just half empty, guys.

Not meaning to be depressing, it just is.

 

Who cares, it's a cup.

[Zygimantas]

yes, the nothing you describe cannot be fathomed by humans, because the very act of trying to imagine no objects or energy is something of itself. Our very existence makes nothing... Well, null and void.

Exactly. Now what was it we were discussing again? :)

 

The origin of the Universe. Which I said was infinity, and you said was nothing. You implied that "nothing" is incomprehensible, just like infinity. Therefore it must be infinity. They are opposites.

 

The definition of infinity is "(symbolically represented by ∞) is a concept in mathematics and philosophy that refers to a quantity without bound or end. People have developed various ideas throughout history about the nature of infinity. In mathematics, infinity is defined in the context of set theory." Link

 

"...a quantity without bound or end..." The nothing you described is unquantifiable, and is therefore not included in the definition of infinity.

 

Not to mention the fact you have no evidence to support your claim that everything came from nothing. I have stated that due to the nature of cause and effect, something must have existed to have caused something else. Just on an infinite scale. The concept of cause and effect can be comprehended, the infinite scale of it cannot.

You are god then? I agree.

[MisterGreen]

yes, the nothing you describe cannot be fathomed by humans, because the very act of trying to imagine no objects or energy is something of itself. Our very existence makes nothing... Well, null and void.

Exactly. Now what was it we were discussing again? :)

 

The origin of the Universe. Which I said was infinity, and you said was nothing. You implied that "nothing" is incomprehensible, just like infinity. Therefore it must be infinity. They are opposites.

 

The definition of infinity is "(symbolically represented by ∞) is a concept in mathematics and philosophy that refers to a quantity without bound or end. People have developed various ideas throughout history about the nature of infinity. In mathematics, infinity is defined in the context of set theory." Link

 

"...a quantity without bound or end..." The nothing you described is unquantifiable, and is therefore not included in the definition of infinity.

 

Not to mention the fact you have no evidence to support your claim that everything came from nothing. I have stated that due to the nature of cause and effect, something must have existed to have caused something else. Just on an infinite scale. The concept of cause and effect can be comprehended, the infinite scale of it cannot.

You are god then? I agree.

 

No I am not God. Such a statement is foolish. I am obviously finite, possibly part of an infinite collective, or the result of an infinite being's will. That much is obvious.

 

Or you couldn't think of a rebuttal, and decided to be rude instead.

[Zygimantas]

yes, the nothing you describe cannot be fathomed by humans, because the very act of trying to imagine no objects or energy is something of itself. Our very existence makes nothing... Well, null and void.

Exactly. Now what was it we were discussing again? :)

 

The origin of the Universe. Which I said was infinity, and you said was nothing. You implied that "nothing" is incomprehensible, just like infinity. Therefore it must be infinity. They are opposites.

 

The definition of infinity is "(symbolically represented by ∞) is a concept in mathematics and philosophy that refers to a quantity without bound or end. People have developed various ideas throughout history about the nature of infinity. In mathematics, infinity is defined in the context of set theory." Link

 

"...a quantity without bound or end..." The nothing you described is unquantifiable, and is therefore not included in the definition of infinity.

 

Not to mention the fact you have no evidence to support your claim that everything came from nothing. I have stated that due to the nature of cause and effect, something must have existed to have caused something else. Just on an infinite scale. The concept of cause and effect can be comprehended, the infinite scale of it cannot.

You are god then? I agree.

 

No I am not God. Such a statement is foolish. I am obviously finite, possibly part of an infinite collective, or the result of an infinite being's will. That much is obvious.

 

Or you couldn't think of a rebuttal, and decided to be rude instead.

Rude? Infinity is without bound, therefore it must be everywhere. Everything and everyone is god.

[MisterGreen]

[hide]

yes, the nothing you describe cannot be fathomed by humans, because the very act of trying to imagine no objects or energy is something of itself. Our very existence makes nothing... Well, null and void.

Exactly. Now what was it we were discussing again? :)

 

The origin of the Universe. Which I said was infinity, and you said was nothing. You implied that "nothing" is incomprehensible, just like infinity. Therefore it must be infinity. They are opposites.

 

The definition of infinity is "(symbolically represented by ∞) is a concept in mathematics and philosophy that refers to a quantity without bound or end. People have developed various ideas throughout history about the nature of infinity. In mathematics, infinity is defined in the context of set theory." Link

 

"...a quantity without bound or end..." The nothing you described is unquantifiable, and is therefore not included in the definition of infinity.

 

Not to mention the fact you have no evidence to support your claim that everything came from nothing. I have stated that due to the nature of cause and effect, something must have existed to have caused something else. Just on an infinite scale. The concept of cause and effect can be comprehended, the infinite scale of it cannot.

You are god then? I agree.

 

No I am not God. Such a statement is foolish. I am obviously finite, possibly part of an infinite collective, or the result of an infinite being's will. That much is obvious.

 

Or you couldn't think of a rebuttal, and decided to be rude instead.

Rude? Infinity is without bound, therefore it must be everywhere. Everything and everyone is god.

[/hide]

 

So you are saying it is impossible for there to be an infinite amount of finite objects? If there is an infinite being capable of comprehending infinity in all forms, what makes you think such a being couldn't create something like that? I realized one my earlier points about a never ending cycle is flawed. Why? because if we are truly a part of infinity, why can't we comprehend it ourselves? Because we are obviously finite.

 

The only explanation is that an infinite being created us, finite beings. You say that infinity is everywhere. Well that explains omnipresence, which God is said to possess.

[Zygimantas]

yes, the nothing you describe cannot be fathomed by humans, because the very act of trying to imagine no objects or energy is something of itself. Our very existence makes nothing... Well, null and void.

Exactly. Now what was it we were discussing again? :)

 

The origin of the Universe. Which I said was infinity, and you said was nothing. You implied that "nothing" is incomprehensible, just like infinity. Therefore it must be infinity. They are opposites.

 

The definition of infinity is "(symbolically represented by ∞) is a concept in mathematics and philosophy that refers to a quantity without bound or end. People have developed various ideas throughout history about the nature of infinity. In mathematics, infinity is defined in the context of set theory." Link

 

"...a quantity without bound or end..." The nothing you described is unquantifiable, and is therefore not included in the definition of infinity.

 

Not to mention the fact you have no evidence to support your claim that everything came from nothing. I have stated that due to the nature of cause and effect, something must have existed to have caused something else. Just on an infinite scale. The concept of cause and effect can be comprehended, the infinite scale of it cannot.

You are god then? I agree.

 

No I am not God. Such a statement is foolish. I am obviously finite, possibly part of an infinite collective, or the result of an infinite being's will. That much is obvious.

 

Or you couldn't think of a rebuttal, and decided to be rude instead.

Rude? Infinity is without bound, therefore it must be everywhere. Everything and everyone is god.

 

So you are saying it is impossible for there to be an infinite amount of finite objects? What makes you say that?

Explain to me how I am saying that. It is impossible to have a finite amount of infinite, and that is what you are apparently trying to get at by saying god is infinite, but you are not.

[MisterGreen]

[hide]

yes, the nothing you describe cannot be fathomed by humans, because the very act of trying to imagine no objects or energy is something of itself. Our very existence makes nothing... Well, null and void.

Exactly. Now what was it we were discussing again? :)

 

The origin of the Universe. Which I said was infinity, and you said was nothing. You implied that "nothing" is incomprehensible, just like infinity. Therefore it must be infinity. They are opposites.

 

The definition of infinity is "(symbolically represented by ∞) is a concept in mathematics and philosophy that refers to a quantity without bound or end. People have developed various ideas throughout history about the nature of infinity. In mathematics, infinity is defined in the context of set theory." Link

 

"...a quantity without bound or end..." The nothing you described is unquantifiable, and is therefore not included in the definition of infinity.

 

Not to mention the fact you have no evidence to support your claim that everything came from nothing. I have stated that due to the nature of cause and effect, something must have existed to have caused something else. Just on an infinite scale. The concept of cause and effect can be comprehended, the infinite scale of it cannot.

You are god then? I agree.

 

No I am not God. Such a statement is foolish. I am obviously finite, possibly part of an infinite collective, or the result of an infinite being's will. That much is obvious.

 

Or you couldn't think of a rebuttal, and decided to be rude instead.

Rude? Infinity is without bound, therefore it must be everywhere. Everything and everyone is god.

 

So you are saying it is impossible for there to be an infinite amount of finite objects? What makes you say that?

Explain to me how I am saying that. It is impossible to have a finite amount of infinite, and that is what you are apparently trying to get at by saying god is infinite, but you are not.

[/hide]

 

You are saying any object is infinite. If that is true, why can't humans comprehend infinity? It's because we are finite.

[Zygimantas]

[hide]

yes, the nothing you describe cannot be fathomed by humans, because the very act of trying to imagine no objects or energy is something of itself. Our very existence makes nothing... Well, null and void.

Exactly. Now what was it we were discussing again? :)

 

The origin of the Universe. Which I said was infinity, and you said was nothing. You implied that "nothing" is incomprehensible, just like infinity. Therefore it must be infinity. They are opposites.

 

The definition of infinity is "(symbolically represented by ∞) is a concept in mathematics and philosophy that refers to a quantity without bound or end. People have developed various ideas throughout history about the nature of infinity. In mathematics, infinity is defined in the context of set theory." Link

 

"...a quantity without bound or end..." The nothing you described is unquantifiable, and is therefore not included in the definition of infinity.

 

Not to mention the fact you have no evidence to support your claim that everything came from nothing. I have stated that due to the nature of cause and effect, something must have existed to have caused something else. Just on an infinite scale. The concept of cause and effect can be comprehended, the infinite scale of it cannot.

You are god then? I agree.

 

No I am not God. Such a statement is foolish. I am obviously finite, possibly part of an infinite collective, or the result of an infinite being's will. That much is obvious.

 

Or you couldn't think of a rebuttal, and decided to be rude instead.

Rude? Infinity is without bound, therefore it must be everywhere. Everything and everyone is god.

 

So you are saying it is impossible for there to be an infinite amount of finite objects? What makes you say that?

Explain to me how I am saying that. It is impossible to have a finite amount of infinite, and that is what you are apparently trying to get at by saying god is infinite, but you are not.

[/hide]

 

You are saying any object is infinite. If that is true, why can't humans comprehend infinity? It's because we are finite.

Infinity can take "forms" in a human sense, because well it is infinite, nothing is beyond it. Infinity can simply make and take the form of a human and experience its perceptions while still being infinite in essence. The way our mind works may not allow us to comprehend it because of our perceptions, but our perceptions are simply a looking glass of the infinite. Perceptions are a making of the infinite itself and the infinite is the perception. The infinite views the infinite. Our ideas and thoughts can not even convey this correctly, it can hint at it, but not correctly define it. True infinite is undefinable, but it can be realized, just not directly through thoughts or ideas.

 

Oh and if god is infinite and we are finite then god is not infinite. Infinity can not have boundaries.

[MisterGreen]

What about a singularity? Link. It's gravity is supposedly infinite, where nothing can escape it. Not even light. It's also infinitely small, with infinite density as well.

[Assume Nothing]

My mind just got blown. Hard.

 

[Zygimantas]

What about a singularity? Link. It's gravity is supposedly infinite, where nothing can escape it. Not even light. It's also infinitely small, with infinite density as well.

What about it? All phenomena appear to exist because we are there to be aware of them. We ( our minds that is) are there to be aware of them because nothing/infinity/god is aware of our awareness... which is the nothing/infinity/god itself. Singularities are just another a form of this nothingness that was already there, always, for infinity.

[MisterGreen]

What about a singularity? Link. It's gravity is supposedly infinite, where nothing can escape it. Not even light. It's also infinitely small, with infinite density as well.

What about it? All phenomena appear to exist because we are there to be aware of them. We ( our minds that is) are there to be aware of them because nothing/infinity/god is aware of our awareness... which is the nothing/infinity/god itself. Singularities are just another a form of this nothingness that was already there, always, for infinity.

 

Actually, singularities are caused by supernova being sucked into an infinitely small space by it's own gravity, creating a black hole, a.k.a. a singularity.

 

If we are a part of infinity, but cannot comprehend infinity as we are now, we are not truly part of infinity. Therefore we must be finite, and there must another type of infinity that created us. If there is no infinity, we could not exist, because by observing cause and effect, something must have created something else for it to exist. But infinity is outside of our understanding, and everything as we know it is a paradox. But just because we don't comprehend something doesn't necessarily mean it can't happen, or is a paradox.

 

Perhaps our definition of infinity is flawed. If we cannot comprehend it, how can we know if we are right or wrong about it?

[Zygimantas]

 

If we are a part of infinity, but cannot comprehend infinity as we are now, we are not truly part of infinity. Therefore we must be finite, and there must another type of infinity that created us. If there is no infinity, we could not exist, because by observing cause and effect, something must have created something else for it to exist. But infinity is outside of our understanding, and everything as we know it is a paradox. But just because we don't comprehend something doesn't necessarily mean it can't happen, or is a paradox.

 

Perhaps our definition of infinity is flawed. If we cannot comprehend it, how can we know if we are right or wrong about it?

We can comprehend it just not in the way you think. You simply have to go beyond thoughts and ideas, you can not logically come to the comprehension of it. You have to go beyond logic.

There is not much more I can say about this matter, if you want to find out more then I suggest you visit the following: http://www.youtube.com/user/Moojiji, http://www.youtube.com/user/adyashanti?blend=1&ob=4

If you don't want to then that is fine too.

 

Both Mooji and Adyashanti are better at pointing to where I am trying to point.

 

Anyways, thank you for the the conversation :)

[MisterGreen]

 

If we are a part of infinity, but cannot comprehend infinity as we are now, we are not truly part of infinity. Therefore we must be finite, and there must another type of infinity that created us. If there is no infinity, we could not exist, because by observing cause and effect, something must have created something else for it to exist. But infinity is outside of our understanding, and everything as we know it is a paradox. But just because we don't comprehend something doesn't necessarily mean it can't happen, or is a paradox.

 

Perhaps our definition of infinity is flawed. If we cannot comprehend it, how can we know if we are right or wrong about it?

We can comprehend it just not in the way you think. You simply have to go beyond thoughts and ideas, you can not logically come to the comprehension of it. You have to go beyond logic.

There is not much more I can say about this matter, if you want to find out more then I suggest you visit the following: http://www.youtube.com/user/Moojiji, http://www.youtube.com/user/adyashanti?blend=1&ob=4

If you don't want to then that is fine too.

 

Both Mooji and Adyashanti are better at pointing to where I am trying to point.

 

Anyways, thank you for the the conversation :)

You're welcome! :) It was interesting debating with you. I may check those links...

[Zygimantas]

Hmm.. Anything that comes and goes can not be absolute reality, it is only relative, only subjective. For example, fear, it only exists if you pay attention to it. It is merely just an idea when you don't pay attention to it, but when you draw all your attention to fear it it gives you the illusion that it is much more then an idea, but that is only because you give it attention...

[Zygimantas]

Someone was talking about perception with a lack of senses and I wanted to find this picture, I couldnt until now.

 

But here is a picture where you see sound. Tell me if you too hear the "THUMP"

 

Yep,slightly, because I am expecting it.

[Dupin]

Hmm.. Anything that comes and goes can not be absolute reality, it is only relative, only subjective. For example, fear, it only exists if you pay attention to it. It is merely just an idea when you don't pay attention to it, but when you draw all your attention to fear it it gives you the illusion that it is much more then an idea, but that is only because you give it attention...

And since everything comes and goes, nothing is reality. Everything is nothing; nothing is anything.

[Zygimantas]

Hmm.. Anything that comes and goes can not be absolute reality, it is only relative, only subjective. For example, fear, it only exists if you pay attention to it. It is merely just an idea when you don't pay attention to it, but when you draw all your attention to fear it it gives you the illusion that it is much more then an idea, but that is only because you give it attention...

And since everything comes and goes, nothing is reality. Everything is nothing; nothing is anything.

Yep. Simple. The last few days I have been getting used to just being aware of everything. Being aware of my thoughts, feelings, and just enjoying them and observing how they come and go. This way, I don't feel attached to anything, though in a nice, peaceful, free way... whatever happens, just happens and its ok because it will leave like everything else :)

[Junkmutt]

Someone was talking about perception with a lack of senses and I wanted to find this picture, I couldnt until now.

 

But here is a picture where you see sound. Tell me if you too hear the "THUMP"

 

Yep,slightly, because I am expecting it.

Is it bad that I can feel it in my ears?

[Saru Inc]

Someone was talking about perception with a lack of senses and I wanted to find this picture, I couldnt until now.

 

But here is a picture where you see sound. Tell me if you too hear the "THUMP"

 

 

 

Yea.

 

 

I think the most trippy thing about that picture is how the wires pass through the others ones with no problem. XD

[spooferfish]

Half full.

*Takes a swig*

Now it's empty. Instead of thinking about the glass, why not do something with it?

*invents a new, better glass. profits*

Yes.

[Zealot]

Exactly my point. I dont think the middle man needs to exist for the universe/all of reality to exist.

 

Either it has always existed in some way/shape/or form or came about by some cosmic coincidence. To say that God created it you would then have to ask if God always existed or did he too come about by a cosmic coincidence and be so infinitely powerful that he could create EVERYTHING just for lulz?

 

I think you missunderstand entirely. God is the fundamental fact about reality, not something which happens to inhabit it. He is not a middleman which was created out of nothing and subsiquently created everything else, but rather exists simply because He exists. He is Plato's first cause, if He is anything at all. To steal the ideas of much wiser persons than myself, provided his existance, the only appropriate deffinition for a being deserving of the title 'God,' is "the being for which no greater being can be concieved."(If you understand the philosophical theory of possible worlds you will recognize that His existance or lack thereof is the fundamental fact around which reality can exist, and He is necessarilly present or absent in all possible worlds, much as 2+2=4 is a necessary fact within all possible worlds [you can not imagine a coherent world in which 2+2=/=4 and mean what is really meant by 2+2=4. It is a logical truth rather than an incidental truth], though admittedly the question of God's presence or absence has yet to be addressed, and probably will remain beyond the scope of human knowledge. I can show no farther than that He either has to exist or else has to not exist but in either case it could not have been otherwise. This business of Him being a middleman holds no water once you properly begin to understand what you are really talking about.)

 

I would also add (mind you, not to be mean-spirited, but to make what I believe to be a legitimate point) that semantically "God always existed" probably isn't the best way of describing His mode of being. It would be better to say that provided His existance at all, God always exists. He sees time always as present, never as past or future. I derive this from what a being deserving of the title "God" is, if anything at all. Think of it this way: temporally, we exist in one moment and only one moment. We call our moment the present; this present moment slips through time and follows our temporal progress perfectly. We are things capable of recalling that we existed in what seem to be different moments. We call all the moments which seem to have slipped away from us while we were paying attention to this present moment by the simple word "past." Basically, this is important because everybody I've read who has said anything at all about this (including Sartre, Husseral, and other atheistic philosophers as well as theistic philosophers such as C.S. Lewis) agree that the present is a much more important than all those moments which have passed combined. In a sence, at least humans seem to agree the virtue of time is the present (Further evidence includes the pittying way which people use phrases like "living in the past"). As such, provided His existance and that the present is in fact time's virtue, God necessarilly sees all moments as present. I add this paragraph in the hopes of helping you see a small glimpse of what God, provided His existance, must be like. For all things which are really virtue (that is to say praisworthy or excellent), God must possess that quality perfectly or else not exist at all; there is no middle ground. (Incidentally this argument is central to both Sartre's Atheism and Lewis's Christianity, though that is another topic entirely.) I can at least grasp the theoretical concept of a being which perfectly possesses all virtues after all. The only real work is to discover what is actually meant by the word "virtue" as it relates to every given thing or circumstance, and that is something which, quite litterally, God only knows.

[Shiny]

So that god you described is an omnipotent god. As an omnipotent God, can he create a rock so heavy that he cannot lift it?

 

Food for thought.

[Zealot]

So that god you described is an omnipotent god. As an omnipotent God, can he create a rock so heavy that he cannot lift it?

 

Food for thought.

 

Obviously not. Such a thing is an absurdity. Omnipotence means only that HE can do all doable things. If a thing is logically incoherent, such as creating a four-sided triangle, or a rock so heavy He can't move it, it does not reduce God's power in the slightest to say even He can't do such things... In fact, it simply illustrates that human reason is not perfect, because we imagine that we can concieve of such things, but are really speaking nonsense.

 

[edit] You should read Aristotle's account of virtue in Nicomachian Ethics If his account is correct, then by necessity there are things which a perfectly powerful being can not do...

[AdamMonkey0]

My mind just got blown. Hard.

 

[spoiler=Videos]

 

 

That was an awesome watch, very mind blowing and interesting :thumbsup:

 

I don't know how you get things to go through other things like that, but that's the mystery :ugeek: