Communism Fails.

[sees_all1]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39152912/ns/world_news-americas/

 

[mock award accepting speech]There's so many people to thank for this honor. First off, I'd like to thank my family, my parents, especially my mom. I'd also like to thank the founders and great thinkers; the Marxs, Lenins, Stalins, and Zedongs of the world. Without you, this would never be possible. I'd also like to thank Castro for being such a good sport about it. A special shout out to Che Guevara, may your face be forever on t-shirts. Finally, and most importantly, I'd like to credit Obama for the beginning of the end of Communism as we know it. May this be the greatest achievement of his Presidency.[/speech]

 

 

Discuss.

 

 

EDIT:

I don't know how much Spanish you might know, but here's an official pronouncing on the state diary.

 

Used Google to translate it.

[hide=translated text]

The Cuban Revolution meets 52 years of successful existence, and today more than ever are living and unshakable in the direction of the nation and our people's will and determination to continue the construction of socialism, progress in the development and updating of economic model we must follow, consolidating the gains achieved

 

The direction of the Government has been working on a set of measures to ensure and implement the changes necessary and urgent to introduce into the economy and society, to transform and streamline the current process of production and employment.

 

Cuba faces the urgent need to move forward economically, better organize production, enhance productivity and raise reserves, improve discipline and efficiency and this is only possible through the dignified and devoted to our people. Today, the duty of the Cubans is work and do it well, with seriousness and responsibility, make better use of resources available to better serve our needs.

 

In correspondence with the process of updating the economic model and projections of the economy for the period 2011-2015, provided in the Guidelines for next year reduction of more than 500 000 workers in the state sector and in parallel the increase in non-state sector.The timetable for implementation is designed for agencies and businesses to the first quarter of 2011.

 

For the union movement and workers pay the utmost attention to downsizing, the process of labor and employment availability, and ensure proper utilization of human resources is an unavoidable task. It is known that an excess of seats over one million people in the budget and business sectors.

 

Our state can not and should continue to hold companies, organizations production, service and budgeted with templates inflated and losses weigh down the economy, are counterproductive, create bad habits and distort the behavior of workers. It is necessary to increase production and quality of services, reduce social spending and eliminate bulky improper gratuities, excessive subsidies, the study as a source of employment and retirement.

 

The success of the process starts now depend on the political assurance from the union movement under the leadership of the party give union leaders prior to the actions to be undertaken, and achieve social consensus on economic and political relevance of this step. These measures seek to identify labor availability of spaces that are not necessary, and relocation to another job where necessary and possible or redirection of workers who occupy them.

 

For the treatment of workers in an establishment or workplace become available, extends and diversifies the current horizon of options with new forms of non-state employment as an alternative use: these include the lease, usufruct, cooperatives and self-employment, will move to where hundreds of thousands of workers in the coming years.

 

Within the state sector covering only be possible to go places that are essential in historical work workforce deficit, such as agriculture, construction, teachers, police, industrial workers and others.

 

The country has been running in various sectors a major investment process in the petroleum, construction, biotechnology, pharmaceuticals and tourism also are promoted to other products of goods and services exports expanded, which also generate sources employment.

 

These changes in employment policy is applied in a gradual and progressive, will begin immediately and the scale and impact cover all sectors.

 

The entire process is carried out on bases and new standards and revised the current treatment for jobs and wages available and idled, it will no longer be possible to apply the formula to protect or subsidize wage workers indefinitely. In the identification, transfer to other work location will play a very important provision of management and staff concerned.

 

The definition of who will cover the places available in each working group shall be applied taking into account the principle of the suitability demonstrated.

 

One issue of particular importance is the salary. We must reinvigorate the socialist principle of distribution, to pay to each according to the quantity and quality of work provided. Payment systems result, applied to schools with best-fit templates continue to be the way to increase productivity and consequently, the income of workers.

 

Encourage the organization in each level of management contributes to the fulfillment of this policy will ensure the continued construction of Cuban socialism, following the concept of revolution from a sense of history, and changing everything that must be changed

 

The CTC and the unions are committed and we will ensure strict observance and implementation of proven adequacy principle to determine the best right to fill a position, as well as transparency in what should be implemented.

 

The union belongs to act in its sector with a high level of demand and maintain systematic control of the pace of this process from start to end, take appropriate action and to inform their higher organisms and the CTC.

 

The unity of the Cuban workers and our people has been key to maximizing the gigantic built by the Revolution and the changes that we are now undertaking she will continue to be our most important strategic weapon.

 

National Secretary of the CTC.

[/hide]

[Pirate_Felix]

Communism is an ideology, it would work perfectly in theory but due to mankind's competitive nature it is bound to fail because nobody would obey the rules. Which is why it would never actually work and stay an ideology forever.

[Giordano]

So Cuba is kicking out half a million people so they can find jobs in the private sector?

 

Personal OP's input and summary would go far, thanks.

[Range_This11]

Great thread title :-|

 

Maybe you should use a more accurate one. Communism didn't fail, CUBA did.

[Flodder450]

Communism is an ideology, it would work perfectly in theory but due to mankind's competitive nature it is bound to fail because nobody would obey the rules. Which is why it would never actually work and stay an ideology forever.

Yeah, in theory, its a great concept, everyone got food, everyone got a car, everyone got healthcare,everyone is no more then one another

 

 

sadly, the execution of Communism in lets say, Cuba.....failed, due to that :thumbdown:

[sees_all1]

A famous quote from George Orwell's Animal Farm is "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

Similarly, an Austrian analyst, Willi Schlamm said "The trouble with socialism is socialism. The trouble with capitalism is capitalists."

 

I don't think any social structure or method of government can be called "theoretically perfect" when it inherently goes against human nature. To the best of my understanding, all humans are capitalists. They'll seek to gain as much as they can for themselves, in almost any manner they can (be it legally, within the system, or illegally, outside the system).

The original Communists were no different - they recognized that they could gain power through a violent overthrow of the status quo. The leaders of the Communist party were capitalists - they kept their power by using the system, while at the same time they enriched themselves with the system.

 

Cuba's communist system of government failing isn't a proof that Communism fails, but instead is evidence that the long term system can't work.

 

 

One of the things I think is interesting in the article is the part that says:

Our state cannot and should not continue maintaining companies, productive entities, services and budgeted sectors with bloated payrolls (and) losses that hurt the economy

I also find it ironic that Cuba is the shining star for the big government argument, and even they are looking to reduce the size of their government.

 

 

If anyone can provide the original press release from Cuba, I'd love to read it first hand.

[meol]

I don't know how much Spanish you might know, but here's an official pronouncing on the state diary.

[Alg]

Communism is an ideology, it would work perfectly in theory but due to mankind's competitive nature it is bound to fail because nobody would obey the rules. Which is why it would never actually work and stay an ideology forever.

Yeah, in theory, its a great concept, everyone got food, everyone got a car, everyone got healthcare,everyone is no more then one another

Ahh the human factor. Our greatest strength and weakness... :mrgreen:

[sees_all1]

I don't know how much Spanish you might know, but here's an official pronouncing on the state diary.

 

Used Google to translate it.

[hide=translated text]

The Cuban Revolution meets 52 years of successful existence, and today more than ever are living and unshakable in the direction of the nation and our people's will and determination to continue the construction of socialism, progress in the development and updating of economic model we must follow, consolidating the gains achieved

 

The direction of the Government has been working on a set of measures to ensure and implement the changes necessary and urgent to introduce into the economy and society, to transform and streamline the current process of production and employment.

 

Cuba faces the urgent need to move forward economically, better organize production, enhance productivity and raise reserves, improve discipline and efficiency and this is only possible through the dignified and devoted to our people. Today, the duty of the Cubans is work and do it well, with seriousness and responsibility, make better use of resources available to better serve our needs.

 

In correspondence with the process of updating the economic model and projections of the economy for the period 2011-2015, provided in the Guidelines for next year reduction of more than 500 000 workers in the state sector and in parallel the increase in non-state sector.The timetable for implementation is designed for agencies and businesses to the first quarter of 2011.

 

For the union movement and workers pay the utmost attention to downsizing, the process of labor and employment availability, and ensure proper utilization of human resources is an unavoidable task. It is known that an excess of seats over one million people in the budget and business sectors.

 

Our state can not and should continue to hold companies, organizations production, service and budgeted with templates inflated and losses weigh down the economy, are counterproductive, create bad habits and distort the behavior of workers. It is necessary to increase production and quality of services, reduce social spending and eliminate bulky improper gratuities, excessive subsidies, the study as a source of employment and retirement.

 

The success of the process starts now depend on the political assurance from the union movement under the leadership of the party give union leaders prior to the actions to be undertaken, and achieve social consensus on economic and political relevance of this step. These measures seek to identify labor availability of spaces that are not necessary, and relocation to another job where necessary and possible or redirection of workers who occupy them.

 

For the treatment of workers in an establishment or workplace become available, extends and diversifies the current horizon of options with new forms of non-state employment as an alternative use: these include the lease, usufruct, cooperatives and self-employment, will move to where hundreds of thousands of workers in the coming years.

 

Within the state sector covering only be possible to go places that are essential in historical work workforce deficit, such as agriculture, construction, teachers, police, industrial workers and others.

 

The country has been running in various sectors a major investment process in the petroleum, construction, biotechnology, pharmaceuticals and tourism also are promoted to other products of goods and services exports expanded, which also generate sources employment.

 

These changes in employment policy is applied in a gradual and progressive, will begin immediately and the scale and impact cover all sectors.

 

The entire process is carried out on bases and new standards and revised the current treatment for jobs and wages available and idled, it will no longer be possible to apply the formula to protect or subsidize wage workers indefinitely. In the identification, transfer to other work location will play a very important provision of management and staff concerned.

 

The definition of who will cover the places available in each working group shall be applied taking into account the principle of the suitability demonstrated.

 

One issue of particular importance is the salary. We must reinvigorate the socialist principle of distribution, to pay to each according to the quantity and quality of work provided. Payment systems result, applied to schools with best-fit templates continue to be the way to increase productivity and consequently, the income of workers.

 

Encourage the organization in each level of management contributes to the fulfillment of this policy will ensure the continued construction of Cuban socialism, following the concept of revolution from a sense of history, and changing everything that must be changed

 

The CTC and the unions are committed and we will ensure strict observance and implementation of proven adequacy principle to determine the best right to fill a position, as well as transparency in what should be implemented.

 

The union belongs to act in its sector with a high level of demand and maintain systematic control of the pace of this process from start to end, take appropriate action and to inform their higher organisms and the CTC.

 

The unity of the Cuban workers and our people has been key to maximizing the gigantic built by the Revolution and the changes that we are now undertaking she will continue to be our most important strategic weapon.

 

National Secretary of the CTC.

[/hide]

[das1330]

It's just a simple admission by one of the last truly communist countries in the world that socialism fails. While that fact is not news to the rest of the world, it is still good to see that Cuba is finally advancing after so many years under a broken and useless system.

[tortilliachp]

socialism can be anywhere from regulated capitalism to authoritarian communism.

 

wouldn't it be much easier to use the term communism when it is communism you mean?

 

social democracy is also socialism. communism failing does not imply that socialism fails one bit.

[obfuscator]

Communism is an ideology, it would work perfectly in theory but due to mankind's competitive nature it is bound to fail because nobody would obey the rules. Which is why it would never actually work and stay an ideology forever.

Yeah, in theory, its a great concept, everyone got food, everyone got a car, everyone got healthcare,everyone is no more then one another

 

 

sadly, the execution of Communism in lets say, Cuba.....failed, due to that :thumbdown:

The problem with execution is that it fails everywhere.

 

In theory it is a perfect system. But theory is far different from reality, and the independent nature of the human spirit can't be crushed like communism requires.

[Giordano]

In theory, capitalism is even better than communism. The harder the work the richer you get, right?

[Omar]

In theory, capitalism is even better than communism. The harder the work the richer you get, right?

If it was that simple, no one would be having this discussion.

[Alg]

In theory, capitalism is even better than communism. The harder the work the richer you get, right?

In theory any system is the best system ever. Especially comparing theory to another system's reality.

[Giordano]

In theory, capitalism is even better than communism. The harder the work the richer you get, right?

If it was that simple, no one would be having this discussion.

That went over your head.

[The Dark Lord]

I believe that communism is a perfect ideology that promotes individual freedom and equal opportunity for all. Why abolish it?

[Giordano]

I believe that communism is a perfect ideology that promotes individual freedom and equal opportunity for all. Why abolish it?

Hardly. You can never indulge on excess with it. The ability to choose any career you want is motivating for a short time until your personal greed outweighs your work ethic. Thus, fails to conduct an efficient government of this type in the real world. Thus not perfect.

[paul191600]

In before Lenin posts.

[sees_all1]

The easiest way to make sure everyone gets an equal share is to make sure everyone gets nothing. :shades:

[fakeitormakeit2]

I don't understand why people say Communism is idealistically the best system. It's a horrible system. It's an imposed equalization of everyone. People must accept and work on equality themselves [plus most interest groups are not interested in equality, they're interested in special privileges]. If someone works harder, then they get equal compensation. True, those who make more then the average citizen should give to the less fortunate, but not by force because than virtue becomes a quantified restriction. All people are not equal. In their dignity, yes everyone is equal. But in ability, there are men and women more competent, more intelligent, more productive, more diligent and more persuasive which makes them unequal in the ability and therefore based upon their merit deserve higher compensation. [That's why I'm against the extravagant, yes I said extravagant, welfare programs employed by the United States. Minimal food, shelter and clothing are expected to those who are without, but is it an existential necessity to have a government supplied cell phone?]

 

Ideally communism is bad. Practically it is even worse. Hence the reason why it cannot truly succeed.

[sarg1010]

The easiest way to make sure everyone gets an equal share is to make sure everyone gets nothing. :shades:

But everyone includes you as well.

[paul191600]

I don't understand why people say Communism is idealistically the best system. It's a horrible system. It's an imposed equalization of everyone. People must accept and work on equality themselves [plus most interest groups are not interested in equality, they're interested in special privileges]. If someone works harder, then they get equal compensation. True, those who make more then the average citizen should give to the less fortunate, but not by force because than virtue becomes a quantified restriction. All people are not equal. In their dignity, yes everyone is equal. But in ability, there are men and women more competent, more intelligent, more productive, more diligent and more persuasive which makes them unequal in the ability and therefore based upon their merit deserve higher compensation. [That's why I'm against the extravagant, yes I said extravagant, welfare programs employed by the United States. Minimal food, shelter and clothing are expected to those who are without, but is it an existential necessity to have a government supplied cell phone?]

 

Ideally communism is bad. Practically it is even worse. Hence the reason why it cannot truly succeed.

If this forum had rep then I would give you a point for this post.

[OldJoe]

I'd rather be able to herd a flock of sheep up the hill and get good value for my work than having my neighbour herd his flock of sheep down the hill and get the same pay.

[sees_all1]

The easiest way to make sure everyone gets an equal share is to make sure everyone gets nothing. :shades:

But everyone includes you as well.

 

Nope. I'm a nobody, so I get everything. It also makes me perfect, etc. GF!

 

 

 

In all seriousness, Cuba may have the "best" (floating criteria, but everyone likes to use them as an example) health-care system in the world right now, but given a hint of capitalism and all the bright stars who normally would become doctors instead become whatever is most profitable. That means to attract bright minds to becoming doctors, they'll have to pay more. Prices will rise, and we'll see Cuban's amazing health-care system become trash from the bloat that the government is trying to rid itself of.

Unless they put a gun to their head and force them to be doctors, that might work. :thumbdown: