Does anyone else think about this?

[Myweponsg00d]

I blame the terrible education system. All the teachers at urban schools are there because they cant get a job anywhere else. We need teachers who believe that everyone is capable of sucess. A lot of underclass people could do some great things if there was just one person in their life who believed in them.

 

I mean, dont get me wrong, there are plenty of scumbags who don't want to have a future and just want to be criminals. But there are also plenty of people who end up in that lifestyle only because nobody gives them a chance.

 

I think that if you took a kid from the poorest, dirtiest, laziest family and put him in a school full of role models who actually cared about his success, believed in his ability, and held him to high expectations, he would turn his life around.

[Bows]

I blame the terrible education system. All the teachers at urban schools are there because they cant get a job anywhere else. We need teachers who believe that everyone is capable of sucess. A lot of underclass people could do some great things if there was just one person in their life who believed in them.

 

I mean, dont get me wrong, there are plenty of scumbags who don't want to have a future and just want to be criminals. But there are also plenty of people who end up in that lifestyle only because nobody gives them a chance.

 

I think that if you took a kid from the poorest, dirtiest, laziest family and put him in a school full of role models who actually cared about his success, believed in his ability, and held him to high expectations, he would turn his life around.

That was rather inspirational. =D>

[obfuscator]

I blame the terrible education system. All the teachers at urban schools are there because they cant get a job anywhere else. We need teachers who believe that everyone is capable of sucess. A lot of underclass people could do some great things if there was just one person in their life who believed in them.

 

I mean, dont get me wrong, there are plenty of scumbags who don't want to have a future and just want to be criminals. But there are also plenty of people who end up in that lifestyle only because nobody gives them a chance.

 

I think that if you took a kid from the poorest, dirtiest, laziest family and put him in a school full of role models who actually cared about his success, believed in his ability, and held him to high expectations, he would turn his life around.

This. I also blame the destruction of family values in society in general, the negative effects of which are magnified when applied to the poor.

[K4ylan]

I'm one of these poor kids on the bus, trying to get through the education system when there's only enough money in the bank to get me there in the first place. I always have been. (Though I'm not the sort of idiot you talk about, an idiot is an idiot whether they're rich or poor). My parents have accepted that they're not going to be in a position where they can really afford very much, they want more but debts and the entire world just stop them.

 

I'm just starting University, the money for my fees and grants are all coming from the Government. If they didn't provide this, I would probably be in a dead end job now. I'd be doomed to Council houses forever. But, I have a chance. I do aspire to be more, I'm determined that being in a life of poverty isn't going to be my future. University is my chance for this. I'll be in debt when I come out, but I'm just hoping that I'll get a job that allows me to pay it off. I don't want to be poor, but there's a big chance that I might end up that way - just because of where I've come from.

 

The difference between you, and the people the OP mention, is that you're actually trying to do something about it, and that you actually care.

[Zygimantas]

I blame the terrible education system. All the teachers at urban schools are there because they cant get a job anywhere else. We need teachers who believe that everyone is capable of sucess. A lot of underclass people could do some great things if there was just one person in their life who believed in them.

 

I mean, dont get me wrong, there are plenty of scumbags who don't want to have a future and just want to be criminals. But there are also plenty of people who end up in that lifestyle only because nobody gives them a chance.

 

I think that if you took a kid from the poorest, dirtiest, laziest family and put him in a school full of role models who actually cared about his success, believed in his ability, and held him to high expectations, he would turn his life around.

This. I also blame the destruction of family values in society in general, the negative effects of which are magnified when applied to the poor.

What do you mean by family values?

[Alg]

Again, quote mining, just had a response to this bit.

I think that if you took a kid from the poorest, dirtiest, laziest family and put him in a school full of role models who actually cared about his success, believed in his ability, and held him to high expectations, he would turn his life around.

Personal anecdote:

I know a few guys that, even with many advantages that people would kill for, didn't respond that way. One made it on to the school's honor roll with basically the easiest classes he could have taken and was basically just there for the baseball team and his friends. The other missed most of the school year (With good reason, health issues), failed most classes, and still managed to graduate. The former wasn't interested in higher education, but of the people I know is probably the most likely to be successful. The latter was/is smarter than I am, he just wasn't motivated by school, and even if he was, had enough problems that it wouldn't have been much of a priority.

 

 

TL:DR : Some people just aren't interested in higher education, while others may have enough to worry about without it. Not everyone may react that way, though there are bound to be a lot that do. Have seen that happen more often than the two examples I listed... :lol:

[Zygimantas]

I think that the want to succeed in something is based on genetics and the environment.

[The Dark Lord]

I think that we (intellectuals) should rise up and take what's ours. This world belongs to us, the intellectual elite, and the underlings only exist for our own exploitation. The underlings should be subjected to heavy labour while we sit within our parliamentary buildings, our congresses, &c, and rule the world.

 

Men such as Rousseau were fools. There are no such things as "unalienable" rights. It is just as valid to argue that the elite have the right to enslave the weak.

 

EDIT: I also agree with your position about black people.

[The_Gabe]

I think that the want to succeed in something is based on genetics and the environment.

 

How is genetics relevant to it at all?

[Zygimantas]

I think that the want to succeed in something is based on genetics and the environment.

 

How is genetics relevant to it at all?

Genetics is relevant to almost any human behavior. Certain genes probably make a person more or less future oriented.

[Lenticular_J]

So long as I have some land and a plow, I think I'll do alright. You're a pessimist. And education is hardly important. People who go through school are technically educated. You need more than that, because there is no education system that creates well-rounded men and women. They may excel in one area, but are generally severely deficient in others.

 

Grades aren't very important at all. Once you're in college, what you did and who you were in high school means nothing. Once you leave college, it's generally the same way, although you probably had more lasting experiences (and better stories). There are bad people. There are always bad people. In the end, they live wholly unremarkable lives. Treat them the way you want to be treated, and your life is already that much more remarkable.

 

Wait. Grades. Yes, grades. I'm in the top 6% of my high school class. Add to everything else I am/do, I can get into any college I want - not worried about that at all. But I'm paying for it entirely myself. Every single thing. I won't be able to have a steady job until ... Maybe not even this year. I have money put away. Much of it has been devoured by simple things I need. Primarily my car, even though I've begun walking everywhere. Yet, I don't worry. Things will work out. Calm down, my man. Enjoy life.

[Orpheus]

So long as I have some land and a plow, I think I'll do alright. You're a pessimist. And education is hardly important. People who go through school are technically educated. You need more than that, because there is no education system that creates well-rounded men and women. They may excel in one area, but are generally severely deficient in others.

 

Grades aren't very important at all. Once you're in college, what you did and who you were in high school means nothing. Once you leave college, it's generally the same way, although you probably had more lasting experiences (and better stories). There are bad people. There are always bad people. In the end, they live wholly unremarkable lives. Treat them the way you want to be treated, and your life is already that much more remarkable.

 

Wait. Grades. Yes, grades. I'm in the top 6% of my high school class. Add to everything else I am/do, I can get into any college I want - not worried about that at all. But I'm paying for it entirely myself. Every single thing. I won't be able to have a steady job until ... Maybe not even this year. I have money put away. Much of it has been devoured by simple things I need. Primarily my car, even though I've begun walking everywhere. Yet, I don't worry. Things will work out. Calm down, my man. Enjoy life.

 

Yeah... Although I'd still say to get scholarships anyways just to have that much more cash in your pocket. Yeah, enjoy life, [bleep] the haters, and just roll with the punches.

[MightyMuddy]

It's not entirley true that richer people are harder working, personally I attend a semi private high school, and although almost everyone eles who goes there is middle class or higher, not all of the students are particularly hard working. We have our share of drop outs, albeit a much lower percentage. But a lot of the students just don't seem to care, maybe its because they come from wealthy farming family and just assume they will take over the farm when thier parents get old, but a decent chunk of our school is just rich kids who don't care.

 

But maybe the New Zealand education system is just different than the American system.

[Lenticular_J]

So long as I have some land and a plow, I think I'll do alright. You're a pessimist. And education is hardly important. People who go through school are technically educated. You need more than that, because there is no education system that creates well-rounded men and women. They may excel in one area, but are generally severely deficient in others.

 

Grades aren't very important at all. Once you're in college, what you did and who you were in high school means nothing. Once you leave college, it's generally the same way, although you probably had more lasting experiences (and better stories). There are bad people. There are always bad people. In the end, they live wholly unremarkable lives. Treat them the way you want to be treated, and your life is already that much more remarkable.

 

Wait. Grades. Yes, grades. I'm in the top 6% of my high school class. Add to everything else I am/do, I can get into any college I want - not worried about that at all. But I'm paying for it entirely myself. Every single thing. I won't be able to have a steady job until ... Maybe not even this year. I have money put away. Much of it has been devoured by simple things I need. Primarily my car, even though I've begun walking everywhere. Yet, I don't worry. Things will work out. Calm down, my man. Enjoy life.

 

Yeah... Although I'd still say to get scholarships anyways just to have that much more cash in your pocket. Yeah, enjoy life, [bleep] the haters, and just roll with the punches.

Oh, I'll be getting all the scholarships I can. The program I want to go into will be year-round, with little time for work.

[The_Gabe]

So long as I have some land and a plow, I think I'll do alright..

 

Was that a reference to The Good Earth?

[Gwasha]

Gabe, you made me finally log back in, thanks.

 

I think of other kid's futures all the time, as well as my own. I constantly evaluate others, and tend to "create their future." This may sound mean, but 75% of the time I can see the kid getting no where in life, and I'm okay with that. What worries me is that half the time, they're okay wiith it. Sadly, I just shrug it off and understand that not everyone can be a doctor, and anyone can be a burger flipper. Such is life.

[Dupin]

What do you mean by family values?

I would say it's more societal values. The poorer kids value fighting and smoking more than grades, and therefore try to prove themselves successful in those areas.

 

I think that we (intellectuals) should rise up and take what's ours. This world belongs to us, the intellectual elite, and the underlings only exist for our own exploitation. The underlings should be subjected to heavy labour while we sit within our parliamentary buildings, our congresses, &c, and rule the world.

 

Men such as Rousseau were fools. There are no such things as "unalienable" rights. It is just as valid to argue that the elite have the right to enslave the weak.

 

EDIT: I also agree with your position about black people.

I was about to make a sarcastic comment about philosopher kings, and then I read your edit. LMFAO.

 

There are bad people. There are always bad people. In the end, they live wholly unremarkable lives.

As do the good ones, and the hard workers, and the ones who were born into wealth.

[Skeptical]

Elitism is a cruelty that we inflict not just upon the current generation, but those that follow.

 

By refusing to provide education, by believing that there is a fundamental difference between those who have a number in a bank account somewhere, and those who don't, we are dooming the past to repeat, and the divide between the haves and the have-nots to continue increasing.

[i_trollz_u]

You went from "poor people are uneducated" to "black people are uneducated". Sterotyping is probably bad, regardless of the validity of the claims. The world really doesn't need anymore stigmitization. Especially considering your only argument is that "mixing uneducated people and educated is bad", I really don't see why you needed to stereotype.

 

Integrated education probably would have a negative effect on some people, but denying people the right to a better education is even worse. Sure, lots of people don't care about getting an education but that doesn't mean they're terrible people and deserve to live a horrible lifestyle, as other people mentioned their life is probably makes education a lot harder for them. Plus, them not caring about education isn't a reason integrating education is bad, its an argument for why the [cabbage] education system in many parts of the US needs to improve and make them care.

 

Denying impoverished persons education wouldn't solve anything - it would probably just blind people like you from what needs to change in the world and continue to increase the amount of people living degrading lives. And thats not a good thing. History proves that large amounts of people being upset at unjust societies tends to lead to bad consequences for the entire world, rich or poor.

 

 

I think that we (intellectuals) should rise up and take what's ours. This world belongs to us, the intellectual elite, and the underlings only exist for our own exploitation. The underlings should be subjected to heavy labour while we sit within our parliamentary buildings, our congresses, &c, and rule the world.

 

Men such as Rousseau were fools. There are no such things as "unalienable" rights. It is just as valid to argue that the elite have the right to enslave the weak.

 

EDIT: I also agree with your position about black people.

 

Go [bleep] yourself. You do realize that if everyone had the same mentality as you, the world would be a really sad place right now right? Well either that or the majority of the world who would be your slaves would probably do something really, really violent. There's a reason the world has become a nicer place. It wasn't because people just magically got nicer. It was because we learned that enslaving people or saying weak people like jews should die probably doesn't work out well in the end for anyone.

[Alg]

I think that we (intellectuals) should rise up and take what's ours. This world belongs to us, the intellectual elite, and the underlings only exist for our own exploitation. The underlings should be subjected to heavy labour while we sit within our parliamentary buildings, our congresses, &c, and rule the world.

 

Men such as Rousseau were fools. There are no such things as "unalienable" rights. It is just as valid to argue that the elite have the right to enslave the weak.

 

EDIT: I also agree with your position about black people.

 

Go [bleep] yourself. You do realize that if everyone had the same mentality as you, the world would be a really sad place right now right? Well either that or the majority of the world who would be your slaves would probably do something really, really violent. There's a reason the world has become a nicer place. It wasn't because people just magically got nicer. It was because we learned that enslaving people or saying weak people like jews should die probably doesn't work out well in the end for anyone.

You seem to have been trolled. Bit ironic considering your name.

[i_trollz_u]

I think that we (intellectuals) should rise up and take what's ours. This world belongs to us, the intellectual elite, and the underlings only exist for our own exploitation. The underlings should be subjected to heavy labour while we sit within our parliamentary buildings, our congresses, &c, and rule the world.

 

Men such as Rousseau were fools. There are no such things as "unalienable" rights. It is just as valid to argue that the elite have the right to enslave the weak.

 

EDIT: I also agree with your position about black people.

 

Go [bleep] yourself. You do realize that if everyone had the same mentality as you, the world would be a really sad place right now right? Well either that or the majority of the world who would be your slaves would probably do something really, really violent. There's a reason the world has become a nicer place. It wasn't because people just magically got nicer. It was because we learned that enslaving people or saying weak people like jews should die probably doesn't work out well in the end for anyone.

You seem to have been trolled. Bit ironic considering your name.

 

It's funny becuz my name has to do with trolling ppl rite? but instead of me trollling him, he was trolling me? and now u point out its ironiz becuz my name is completely contradictory. i c wut just happneded there. imdoingitrite/

[Alg]

It's funny becuz my name has to do with trolling ppl rite? but instead of me trollling him, he was trolling me? and now u point out its ironiz becuz my name is completely contradictory. i c wut just happneded there. imdoingitrite/

Exactly. Just a heads-up, I don't mean to be offensive. Sorry if that was the case, though.

[Shazarabbit]

Firstly, I really enjoyed reading your post, it was a welcome change from some others I've seen over the years regarding somewhat similar topics.

 

This may sound wrong to many of you, but people from high middle class tend to be more motivated for the future, while people in poor neighborhoods are most likely living there because of their parents not being educated, which they probably think is OK, so they aren't motivated for most thing academically. Thus, they tend to act a lot different from the people concerned with their futures.

 

I was born to a seventeen year old ward of the state woman who back in those days was living off $50 a weeky to support both of us, and her rent was $42. All my life I have grown up in what people classify as 'Bogan' area. Having said that, I am twenty two and currently an assistant manager of a KFC a little out past my local town. Last year alone, I earnt double what my mother did, and i got myself out of that town. I've noticed that alot of people who live in somewhat nice areas, etc tend to be less motivated to get up and go. But I probably can't judge as everybody is different when it comes down to it.

 

Now back to what I've experienced solely on the bus today: I get on and sit in the back, 2 minutes later this black kid asks me so move a bit and I see him take out a lighter from between the seat and the wall. And a few minutes later, everyone is loudly cussing at each other, and I'm just glad I have an Ipod...I'm not a wuss who doesn't cuss, but I don't use it to the extend that I yell in on the top of my lungs for everyone to hear... But of course, the school system put a bus driver that is probably 95% deaf. I just think to myself, what are these people going to do in the future? Has it ever crossed their minds at all?

 

I've found myself questioning this alot myself. Those of us who strive to use manners, be respectful to others just tend to be outnumbered by inconsiderate, arrogant, rude jerks. The language is absolutely disgusting, but i find what's even worse is when a girl starts talking like that. I've never had to fight the urge to slap them in the face more than my life. But then i also find myself feeling sorry for these people. In the future, while i may not be the richest, or the most successful, I'll have a clean conscience, maybe because i have had the right guidance whereas they haven't.

[The_Gabe]

You went from "poor people are uneducated" to "black people are uneducated". Sterotyping is probably bad, regardless of the validity of the claims. The world really doesn't need anymore stigmitization. Especially considering your only argument is that "mixing uneducated people and educated is bad", I really don't see why you needed to stereotype.

 

Integrated education probably would have a negative effect on some people, but denying people the right to a better education is even worse. Sure, lots of people don't care about getting an education but that doesn't mean they're terrible people and deserve to live a horrible lifestyle, as other people mentioned their life is probably makes education a lot harder for them. Plus, them not caring about education isn't a reason integrating education is bad, its an argument for why the [cabbage] education system in many parts of the US needs to improve and make them care.

 

Denying impoverished persons education wouldn't solve anything - it would probably just blind people like you from what needs to change in the world and continue to increase the amount of people living degrading lives. And thats not a good thing. History proves that large amounts of people being upset at unjust societies tends to lead to bad consequences for the entire world, rich or poor.

 

 

I think that we (intellectuals) should rise up and take what's ours. This world belongs to us, the intellectual elite, and the underlings only exist for our own exploitation. The underlings should be subjected to heavy labour while we sit within our parliamentary buildings, our congresses, &c, and rule the world.

 

Men such as Rousseau were fools. There are no such things as "unalienable" rights. It is just as valid to argue that the elite have the right to enslave the weak.

 

EDIT: I also agree with your position about black people.

 

Go [bleep] yourself. You do realize that if everyone had the same mentality as you, the world would be a really sad place right now right? Well either that or the majority of the world who would be your slaves would probably do something really, really violent. There's a reason the world has become a nicer place. It wasn't because people just magically got nicer. It was because we learned that enslaving people or saying weak people like jews should die probably doesn't work out well in the end for anyone.

 

One thing: I didn't go from uneducated people to black people, I simply tried to relate the argument to both sides if you can understand what I mean. But Andvan isn't completely wrong; the most motivated people do excel in the end. You need to be motivated to reach high offices, make a serious career and make a name for your self. People who don't generally tend to work under those people.

 

Also I'm Jewish and I've no idea what you mean by " It was because we learned that enslaving people or saying weak people like jews should die probably doesn't work out well in the end for anyone."

[EarthySun]

To anyone now talking about college, I recommend a book called "Debt-Free University", which I am reading.