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Tip.It times - 3rd October 2010


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#1
Racheya
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Time for a new release of the: >>>Tip.It Times!<<<

When replying please make sure to clarify the article you are replying to! Thanks!

If you spot any typos or mistakes in the article then please PM them to me :)

Enjoy the articles!

(Sorry there's no descriptions to the articles in the news post this week, I'm full of a cold. :pray: )


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#2
Michael
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Your article is blates cos of my thread.

#3
aeternitatis
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Pretty much summed up a lot of the discussions in the efficiency thread. Interesting; nice read. Thanks Rach!
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#4
Utopia
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Great reads, thanks!

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#5
jsboutin2
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Racheya: Perhaps you didn't think about doing things you like in an efficient matter?

Between making, say, super attack or super def (examples) pots, there really is no difference... Why not do the most efficient?

Efficiency really only is knowing the opportunity cost of things, then choosing. That's all.

EDIT: Great DYK, I never knew.

#6
lordkafei
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“Efficiency noob” - gotta admit, that's one I've never heard before. I do use a spreadsheet to calculate various costs / rewards / milestones (15 different pages at present).

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#7
Troacctid
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Of course, I’m only speaking in stereotypes right now. Every player is unique, have their own way of playing the game and, I hope, enjoying Runescape. However, Stereotypes play a big part in the Efficiency wars.

I guess they play a part in that they're invalid strawman arguments, sure. :roll:

However the thing that IS wrong is when these extremely efficient players that see themselves as ‘elite’ start to call people who don’t use the most efficient methods… noobs.

Think about this for a minute. Now take out "extremely efficient" and replace it with any adjective.

However the thing that IS wrong is when these older players start to call people… noobs.
However the thing that IS wrong is when these younger players start to call people… noobs.
However the thing that IS wrong is when these high-level players start to call people… noobs.
However the thing that IS wrong is when these casual players start to call people… noobs.

Notice how the meaning doesn't change? Treating people rudely is wrong whether you're efficient or not.

By singling out efficient players for rudeness, you're saying that as a group, efficient players are more rude than non-efficient players, and quite frankly I find that offensive. :angry:

It would be wrong to suggest that it’s just the pro-efficiency players that can be accused of calling names.

And no, it doesn't help that you said later on that inefficient players can be rude too. That's like saying "I don't want to sound racist, but there's way too many Mexicans in this neighborhood." If you don't want to suggest that it's just the "pro-efficiency players" who are rude, don't suggest it. :shame:

#8
Racheya
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Of course, I’m only speaking in stereotypes right now. Every player is unique, have their own way of playing the game and, I hope, enjoying Runescape. However, Stereotypes play a big part in the Efficiency wars.

I guess they play a part in that they're invalid strawman arguments, sure. :roll:

However the thing that IS wrong is when these extremely efficient players that see themselves as ‘elite’ start to call people who don’t use the most efficient methods… noobs.

Think about this for a minute. Now take out "extremely efficient" and replace it with any adjective.

However the thing that IS wrong is when these older players start to call people… noobs.
However the thing that IS wrong is when these younger players start to call people… noobs.
However the thing that IS wrong is when these high-level players start to call people… noobs.
However the thing that IS wrong is when these casual players start to call people… noobs.

Notice how the meaning doesn't change? Treating people rudely is wrong whether you're efficient or not.

By singling out efficient players for rudeness, you're saying that as a group, efficient players are more rude than non-efficient players, and quite frankly I find that offensive. :angry:

It would be wrong to suggest that it’s just the pro-efficiency players that can be accused of calling names.

And no, it doesn't help that you said later on that inefficient players can be rude too. That's like saying "I don't want to sound racist, but there's way too many Mexicans in this neighborhood." If you don't want to suggest that it's just the "pro-efficiency players" who are rude, don't suggest it. :shame:

I'm just pointing out that a lot of pro-efficiency players say it's just people that play efficiently that call names. So I felt it was an important point to make, that both sides of the debate can be charged of this. I actually feel a lot more harshly towards pro-efficiency players that call names since it often seems very stereotypical. They may get all upset at being called a noob, but throw around 'no lifer' themselves.


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#9
Troacctid
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So I felt it was an important point to make, that both sides of the debate can be charged of this. I actually feel a lot more harshly towards pro-efficiency players that call names since it often seems very stereotypical. They may get all upset at being called a noob, but throw around 'no lifer' themselves.

Except you didn't say that. You said:

It’s true that many players find efficiency and reaching high levels to be genuinely fun, they enjoy getting the xp and racking up the high scores, there’s nothing wrong with that. However the thing that IS wrong is when these extremely efficient players that see themselves as ‘elite’ start to call people who don’t use the most efficient methods… noobs.

Yes, noob is hardly the most insulting term you could call someone, but it’s the idea behind it that matters, rather than the actual name-calling - the idea that being efficient makes you fundamentally better than other players. Yes, you may have more xp and higher levels than that player, but that doesn’t make you ‘better’ in any other way than stats. In fact, if you’re highly efficient even though you dislike having to use certain methods - maybe you genuinely hate it, but you continue anyway because it’s the best xp per hour and you need that xp… then you are possibly a worse player than the person you’re calling a noob. Maybe that person has low levels because, rather than spending their time training, they like to play Castle Wars for a few hours a day. Maybe they like Stealing Creation, or spend their time at the Burthorpe Games Room… I said maybe!

Explain how this is calling out "both sides" for name-calling? <_<

#10
Assume Nothing
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I found the Efficiency article slightly biased, but interesting points raised nonetheless. You can't really say that pro-efficiency is all bad, what is wrong with trying to obtain a good amount of xp? Namecalling has existed since the beginning of mankind, calling others 'noobs' happens on both sides, and that will never change.

I'm glad that you guys finally picked one of my better DYK submissions, only some people know about it. As I've said plenty of times before, as long as you deem something is fun, that is technically 'efficient', in the 'every rational decision is an efficient decision' sense.

I don't read the Fictionals, so no comment on that.

#11
Low C
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Any article is going to be biased towards the side the author sides with. It's just that way with most opinionated articles.

Constructive criticism towards your article would be using "I". It would sound more professional/know what you're talking about if you rephrase sentences to not include "I". Just a pointer I've learned in a writing class I've been taking.

Edited by Lowc15, 03 October 2010 - 06:11 PM.

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#12
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Liked the fictional :) And the DYK was amazing =O (Although I suspect it only exists 'cause Jagex hasn't realized it...)

The efficiency article was okay... I didn't like the part where everyone started getting split up into categories. You just can't do that with people. Because people don't fit perfectly in one box or another. Plus, the "average" player line annoyed me. How would you possibly know what that was o_o

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#13
EmEss
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Interesting read...

O.O I found nothing wrong with it, tbh.
Just sayin' but... There always seems to be SOMEONE who disagrees with something Racheya says.


... okay... I WILL admit I didn't like the whole categories of players but...
Nearly Everyone will be put in a box by someone else, just get used to it.


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#14
Bladewing
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my god we are still butthurt about being called a noob?

you are a noob

you will always be a noob

even if you have all 99s a phat set and max cash, you will still be a noob

grow some [bleep]ing skin

#15
PereGrin
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I believe Racheya missed the entire point of Michael's thread.

Stop calling names


The point, tldr version in last quote


None of the players on this thread who say they are efficient call anyone names in game, nor do they make fun of people for not being efficient. Actually, if is insulting you for not being efficient, they have no right to call themselves efficient. However, efficient players will correct you if you make a false claim, such as:

"The Saradomin Sword is faster experience then the Whip+Defender"

That claim is false, but I have heard it multiple times. However:

"I like to use the Sara sword more then the whip."

is a totally fine statement.

From what I have seen, many people say the first, but mean the second. And they get upset when someone corrects them. What these people do not realize is that whoever responds does not have the ability to read their thoughts. They got a response based upon what they said, but they act like it was based upon what they thought.


the idea that being efficient makes you fundamentally better than other players.

If you need an example of someone thinking he is better then others, go read Golvellius' drivel on the Efficiency thread.

Also, basing a huge part of your article on the fact that efficient people call other people names, and then sticking a "oh, btw, inefficient people do the same thing" statement on the very end does not make it any better. A real life example would be raising your hand in class and saying "Hey, my friend here needs help with (insert simple thing here), so could you go over it for him? Oh, and I don't understand how you can apply the chain rule to this problem." That is what you said, but what everyone takes away from that is "Hey, my friend is incredibly developmentally delayed, he needs massive help." This happened in one of my classes, and absolutely 0 people in this class like this person now. This person killed any chance they had of making friends in this class within about 3 seconds.

Everyone is rude, everyone makes many mistakes.

Trying to provide for the inference that other people are the only ones at fault of this is both rude, and a mistake. The term is Hypocrite.

If you are going to write a biased article, then make it biased. Don't attempt to fix it at the very end. Actually, Dane Cook has a whole section of his CD "Isolated Incident" that makes fun of people who do this. Make the assumption you are trying to get people to infer. Say what you think, don't sidestep around it and imply small things about it.

If you are going to say "Efficient people are elitist jerks." Then say it. Don't follow up by saying "oh and so is everyone else." The mere act of claiming the former proves the latter.

#16
Wingless
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I believe Racheya missed the entire point of Michael's thread.


Racheya told me that she didn't make it in response to Michael's thread.

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#17
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I believe Racheya missed the entire point of Michael's thread.


Racheya told me that she didn't make it in response to Michael's thread.

then she is lying or completely unaware of her subconscious

go read her posts in that thread

#18
Racheya
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I believe Racheya missed the entire point of Michael's thread.


Racheya told me that she didn't make it in response to Michael's thread.

then she is lying or completely unaware of her subconscious

go read her posts in that thread

I took inspiration from the thread, seeing as there's a complete lack of interesting updates the last few weeks. But I didn't write it in direct response to the thread because that would just be silly. I took inspiration from the thread as well as imputing my own experience on the issue.


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#19
EmEss
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I believe Racheya missed the entire point of Michael's thread.


Racheya told me that she didn't make it in response to Michael's thread.

then she is lying or completely unaware of her subconscious

go read her posts in that thread


Do YOU know when Racheya is lying?! Do YOU know what Racheya is thinking subconsciously?!
No. So don't make the assumption she wrote this in response to this... person's... thread!


... as racheya said... It wasn't a direct response.


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#20
Bladewing
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I took inspiration from the thread, seeing as there's a complete lack of interesting updates the last few weeks. But I didn't write it in direct response to the thread because that would just be silly. I took inspiration from the thread as well as imputing my own experience on the issue.

fair enough




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