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Tip.It Times: October 10


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#61
Sir_Squab
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And here I was thinking that I was special... turns out you guys hate everyone on the Times.

Stormveritas is one of the best authors we have on this forum and I've never failed to enjoy one of his articles even if they're a different opinion to my own. Because that's what some of us do, listen to and enjoy other people's opinions and thoughts without feeling the need to barge in and attempt to belittle and destroy every point not exactly the same as our own.

The article brings up some valid points and at the very least should make you notice the trend of minigames becoming a requirement of quests - whether you think that's good or bad is your own opinion.

I'm getting fed up at the poor attitude of the community recently. Calling articles horrific or disgraceful is a little bit of an overreaction don't you think? Authors have feelings too. There wouldn't even BE articles for you to read if people didn't volunteer their time and energy towards this. I really think that people should start acting with a little more respect.


I don't think the article was horrific or disgraceful (except for that "fart in a space suit" line...)

It's just that I completely and utterly disagree with the author's opinion.

I do wonder though, if the majority of the posters are able to distinguish bad-opinion* from bad-article.

*i.e., an opinion you don't like; this is completely subjective.

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#62
stonewall337
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And here I was thinking that I was special... turns out you guys hate everyone on the Times.

Stormveritas is one of the best authors we have on this forum and I've never failed to enjoy one of his articles even if they're a different opinion to my own. Because that's what some of us do, listen to and enjoy other people's opinions and thoughts without feeling the need to barge in and attempt to belittle and destroy every point not exactly the same as our own.

The article brings up some valid points and at the very least should make you notice the trend of minigames becoming a requirement of quests - whether you think that's good or bad is your own opinion.

I'm getting fed up at the poor attitude of the community recently. Calling articles horrific or disgraceful is a little bit of an overreaction don't you think? Authors have feelings too. There wouldn't even BE articles for you to read if people didn't volunteer their time and energy towards this. I really think that people should start acting with a little more respect.

Storm may be a good author, doesn't mean everything he writes is going to be a "best seller".

TS: Did I say that I required no proof? NO. You pulled a liberal and completely missed the point. I said various stances and various positions require various amounts of proof. A J-mod's info should be better then a random RS player, someone writing a thesis paper needs stronger, and more accredited proofs then someone writing a 6th grade paper on leaves. Don't you see that? For the later, a Wikipedia article could be accepted by the teacher as a credible source. For the thesis paper, wikipedia would NOT be an acceptable source. That is my sole point. If someone says "200 hours of fishing is not fun for anyone" and they get 5000 people who agree, then good. But I only need 1 person who disagrees to make the statement false. My sole point was: A writer requires varying strengths of proofs depending on the writing.

When I do public speaking, depending on my audience, I use different sources. If I am talking to my peers, I will use personal anecdotes and personal experiences far more commonly. If I am talking before a college group or a class, I will use more formal sources. See?

Racheya, you seem to take everything personal. I often write negative, and positive reviews for numerous products, from music to movies to books. A negative review normally focuses on what I disliked then what I liked, as the negative outweighs the positive. I agreed with some stances Storm took, such as that SW wasn't great. I took exception to his description, as it was rather lacking in proof, as well as objectivity. I believe that the article was rushed, it certainly seemed so. However, I agree. Storm is one of the better writers for the Times.

And sorry Racheya, you may not like it, but I can brook dissent, but I can't brook logical fallacies, unprovable points, or radical claims. I ENJOY debate, many of us do. However, when I write my next article, I'd like you to be able to actually either DEFEND or ATTACK it with specific quotes, etc. In this case, don't just tell us to [bleep] off because you don't like negativity.

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#63
Returnofmic
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I do not agree with the first article, I did not like the way it was written. Before you say anything, this does not mean that I have anything against Stormveritas or any of the of the people who contribute to the Tip.it Times.

"Many can argue that perhaps the least popular activities catered towards the masses are minigames. Some are hugely popular and see enormous buy in from player..."
Umm...right.

"Involvement is also closely tied to rewards."
As someone stated, wouldn't it make sense to actually PLAY a game of Pest Control, to grasp what the void knights are fighting for? Wouldn't it make sense to PLAY a game of Soul Wars, to see why the Nomad acts the way he does? Secondly, it's ONE GAME. They're not asking you to get a full void set/get 100 Zeal.

"Recently, Jagex has begun using the pull of high-demand elements to push less popular content upon players, forcing them to at least try the minigame before completing the quest. We saw this long ago with the Easy Fremmenik Achievement Diary, which requires viewing the Barbarian Assault. Tutorial. Additionally, we noticed that summoning “seconds” also required players to collect items available only through unpopular minigames such as Temple Trekking."
I won't allow you to say that Barbarian Assault is an un-popular mingame, because it isn't true.
Regarding Temple Trekking, it provides an alternative way of training Summoning (Well, collecting secondaries), it isn't forced upon us.

"...visited largely by those who wished to abuse bugs to harvest heaping experience, and pure characters who wanted fast experience without the annoyance of killing monsters or watching a screen."
[Regarding Soul Wars]
I'm not certain what "bug" you speak of, so I won't comment on that. However, the experience from Soul Wars is far from fast. Again, Soul Wars provides an alternative to regular training. Since the addition of the Activity bar, you have to actually "do" something. I don't see you going on about skillers woodcutting Ivy's. Same concept.

"These force-fed elements of the game give an objective player reflux, as our intelligence is insulted with these poorly fabricated ploys to drive activity in underused areas of the game."
Like I've stated, they're asking us to get involved in the story. Would you rather have a Grandmaster Quest that says "Oh, we do this and this and this, for some odd reason."?

"Don’t be surprised when future quests include other unpopular games..."
Perhaps to give new/unexperienced players a chance to try the games?
Perhaps to show that there's another side of RuneScape than just killing?
Perhaps to encourage older players to try a once-forgotten activity?

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#64
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http://blogcritics.o...ch-thing-as-a1/

Article about bad reviews that I found interesting. Just because someone disagrees with an article or product or dislikes it, or simply finds it to be crap doesn't mean the community is falling apart.

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#65
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And here I was thinking that I was special... turns out you guys hate everyone on the Times.

Stormveritas is one of the best authors we have on this forum and I've never failed to enjoy one of his articles even if they're a different opinion to my own. Because that's what some of us do, listen to and enjoy other people's opinions and thoughts without feeling the need to barge in and attempt to belittle and destroy every point not exactly the same as our own.

The article brings up some valid points and at the very least should make you notice the trend of minigames becoming a requirement of quests - whether you think that's good or bad is your own opinion.

I'm getting fed up at the poor attitude of the community recently. Calling articles horrific or disgraceful is a little bit of an overreaction don't you think? Authors have feelings too. There wouldn't even BE articles for you to read if people didn't volunteer their time and energy towards this. I really think that people should start acting with a little more respect.

So some of your articles suck. So what? It's nothing personal. :-w

#66
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And here I was thinking that I was special... turns out you guys hate everyone on the Times.

Stormveritas is one of the best authors we have on this forum and I've never failed to enjoy one of his articles even if they're a different opinion to my own. Because that's what some of us do, listen to and enjoy other people's opinions and thoughts without feeling the need to barge in and attempt to belittle and destroy every point not exactly the same as our own.

The article brings up some valid points and at the very least should make you notice the trend of minigames becoming a requirement of quests - whether you think that's good or bad is your own opinion.

I'm getting fed up at the poor attitude of the community recently. Calling articles horrific or disgraceful is a little bit of an overreaction don't you think? Authors have feelings too. There wouldn't even BE articles for you to read if people didn't volunteer their time and energy towards this. I really think that people should start acting with a little more respect.

So some of your articles suck. So what? It's nothing personal. :-w


I think what she is trying to say is we should not have opinions and just like all the articles each and every week. Don't be a big meany and give bad reviews either its demeaning to the volunteers. I'm reading a book about that right now, it's about a High School that has issues with giving kids bad grades because it hurts their self esteem. This thread really makes me think of that book.

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#67
Ts_Stormrage
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Anyone that writes an article has to be able to take criticism, people won't always like what they read. If it's flaming then the mods need to do their jobs and remove the posts.

Unfortunately, spewing logical sounding crap isnt constituted as breaking a rule, nor the level of criticism I'd like to read here... It's some people's version of Glenn Beck's "I'm only asking the question!"...

TS: Did I say that I required no proof? NO. You pulled a liberal and completely missed the point. I said various stances and various positions require various amounts of proof. A J-mod's info should be better then a random RS player, someone writing a thesis paper needs stronger, and more accredited proofs then someone writing a 6th grade paper on leaves. Don't you see that? For the later, a Wikipedia article could be accepted by the teacher as a credible source. For the thesis paper, wikipedia would NOT be an acceptable source. That is my sole point. If someone says "200 hours of fishing is not fun for anyone" and they get 5000 people who agree, then good. But I only need 1 person who disagrees to make the statement false. My sole point was: A writer requires varying strengths of proofs depending on the writing.

When I do public speaking, depending on my audience, I use different sources. If I am talking to my peers, I will use personal anecdotes and personal experiences far more commonly. If I am talking before a college group or a class, I will use more formal sources. See?


Missing the point seems to be something I learned from you then? ;) Actually I got your point, but your writing brings it across rather differently... Something you will gladly flame someone else for (your little pot starts to turn rather black there)...
Anywho, you DID say that someone disagreeing with a certain statement may actually be considered enough to disprove that statement... I would just LOVE to rub your face in it again, but you're making it too easy... Instead I will fight your other point; that the writer of the article is supposed to be held to a higher standard than the person criticising it... Again, you try to be the alpha-male here without having a leg to stand on... If you want to criticise an article, you damn well better know what you are talking about... These articles are written on a voluntairy basis, and we intent to write for your enjoyment... If you don't enjoy the articles, don't read em, do not start attacking the writers for it...

We will gladly put up with your crap... But not for free...

Do like Returnofmic or Sir_Squab... These guys get it spot on; debate the article, debate the opinions, and disagree if you must, and do it without nitpicking... But DO NOT berate the writer for having that opinion... It makes you look like a cliché smart-mouth, just asking for an asswhooping...

So some of your articles suck. So what? It's nothing personal. :-w

And yet somehow, with some of the people here (and these idiots will never understand that it is THEM that I am talking about), it does turn personal...

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#68
stonewall337
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Anyone that writes an article has to be able to take criticism, people won't always like what they read. If it's flaming then the mods need to do their jobs and remove the posts.

Unfortunately, spewing logical sounding crap isnt constituted as breaking a rule, nor the level of criticism I'd like to read here...

TS: Did I say that I required no proof? NO. You pulled a liberal and completely missed the point. I said various stances and various positions require various amounts of proof. A J-mod's info should be better then a random RS player, someone writing a thesis paper needs stronger, and more accredited proofs then someone writing a 6th grade paper on leaves. Don't you see that? For the later, a Wikipedia article could be accepted by the teacher as a credible source. For the thesis paper, wikipedia would NOT be an acceptable source. That is my sole point. If someone says "200 hours of fishing is not fun for anyone" and they get 5000 people who agree, then good. But I only need 1 person who disagrees to make the statement false. My sole point was: A writer requires varying strengths of proofs depending on the writing.

When I do public speaking, depending on my audience, I use different sources. If I am talking to my peers, I will use personal anecdotes and personal experiences far more commonly. If I am talking before a college group or a class, I will use more formal sources. See?


Missing the point seems to be something I learned from you then? ;) Actually I got your point, but your writing brings it across rather differently... Something you will gladly flame someone else for (your little pot starts to turn rather black there)...
Anywho, you DID say that someone disagreeing with a certain statement may actually be considered enough to disprove that statement... I would just LOVE to rub your face in it again, but you're making it too easy... Instead I will fight your other point; that the writer of the article is supposed to be held to a higher standard than the person criticising it... Again, you try to be the alpha-male here without having a leg to stand on... If you want to criticise an article, you damn well better know what you are talking about... These articles are written on a voluntairy basis, and we intent to write for your enjoyment... If you don't enjoy the articles, don't read em, do not start attacking the writers for it...

We will gladly put up with your crap... But not for free...

Do like Returnofmic or Sir_Squab... These guys get it spot on; debate the article, debate the opinions, and disagree if you must, and do it without nitpicking... But DO NOT berate the writer for having that opinion... It makes you look like a cliché smart-mouth, just asking for an asswhooping...

So some of your articles suck. So what? It's nothing personal. :-w

And yet somehow, with some of the people here (and these idiots will never understand that it is THEM that I am talking about), it does turn personal...


Maybe because SOME of the authors shouldn't be writing for the Times?

I don't care if the author holds an opinion, I care when the writer either:

1.) Can't write, or don't know when an article shouldn't be published.

2.) Writes using poor logic, bad examples, no proof, idiotic reasoning, etc.

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#69
Ts_Stormrage
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Maybe SOME people shouldn't be criticising voluntairly written articles by a standard of thesis writers?

Like it or not, this is the best the community has to offer, cuz noone sane enough would want to write month after month and then proceed to listen to your [cabbage]storm :)

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#70
stonewall337
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Maybe SOME people shouldn't be criticising voluntairly written articles by a standard of thesis writers?

Like it or not, this is the best the community has to offer, cuz noone sane enough would want to write month after month and then proceed to listen to your [cabbage]storm :)

But isn't that what Tip.it forums are about? Discussion? Hm, when did we convert to censorship? You are going to get opinions you don't like. Deal with it. I don't like listening to faulty logic, it bugs the HELL out of me. Trolls I just ignore, but if someones logic is flawed, then I am going to point it out. Same for writing.

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#71
Ts_Stormrage
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I can handle opinions I dont like... But once again you are trying to point out flaws in others that are really your own... Faulty logic? Have you read to your last 4 posts? It's fine for pointing it out up to a point, take the example of some of the more, shall we say, "restraint" responders here. They tend to stay within the boundries of normal and polite discussion... So start with pointing out your own mistakes in logic first? Same for writing ;)

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#72
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TS, may i ask what is the point in publishing if you cannot take criticism?

#73
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After reading the ensuing posts in this thread, I can see how my post contributed to some (i.e. stonewall's) quite obvious bashing of the author. This was not my intent. I still disagree with him, yet, I see that calling him an inbred monkey was way over the line. Apologies. I did not mean to, in any way shape or form be as unpleasant and negative as some have been.
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#74
Ts_Stormrage
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You may indeed ask that, Bladewing... But I am the wrong person to ask, because so far, everything I have written, did recieve criticism and I either agreed or disagreed with those critiques after a debate... But the critisicm was ON MY ARTICLE... Not on me personally...

It is that difference why I will defend other people from attacks from the likes of stonewall and yourself (I havent forgotten your stunt last week)...

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#75
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I can handle opinions I dont like... But once again you are trying to point out flaws in others that are really your own... Faulty logic? Have you read to your last 4 posts? It's fine for pointing it out up to a point, take the example of some of the more, shall we say, "restraint" responders here. They tend to stay within the boundries of normal and polite discussion... So start with pointing out your own mistakes in logic first? Same for writing ;)

And you are deciding to what point I should carry out my criticism. Convoluted?

I don't like Obama, I think he is ruining America in several ways, and I don't ONLY criticize his policies. I criticize the man as well. Yaknow what? He does the same to others, (Limbaugh, etc) If you want to know about my political views, however, PM me.

One may not like my personal criticism, and as I've said at times I've carried it too far, yet I still stand 100% behind my expressed views. I don't think Racheya is a good author. That is my OPINION. I then gave my REASONS for why I think her ARTICLE was bad. In this case, I think Storm just had a flopped article. You may do the same to me, as you have already.

t makes you look like a cliché smart-mouth, just asking for an asswhooping


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#76
Ts_Stormrage
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Nah, I'm going to leave the limits of where criticism ends and where flaming begins up to the mods ;)

Btw, what has Obama or american politics to do with this? Not only can you not write, but have you forgotten to read as well?
I mentioned Glenn Beck and Fox news to make a comparrisson to how you act in this community, mainly on this thread... Your personal political views dont interest me...

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MSSW4 General - Did we kick your ass too?




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#77
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Please let me all remind you of something very vital here:

1.3 - Flaming, Violence, Harassment & Pointless Vulgarity

Heated debates are allowed across the entire forum and we are more lenient when it comes to banter between users in the PvP forums only. However, we always draw the line at personal attacks. Unacceptable forms of flaming include intentionally posting false arguments, intentionally misquoting other users, posting flames or personal attacks for no other purpose than to incite a negative reaction, annoying others or disrupting a discussion. Posts that are disparaging toward any religion, race, nation, social status, gender, or sexual orientation are strictly forbidden. Debate opinions or challenge ideas, but do not insult the people behind them. User names (and profile information) may not be offensive, vulgar, profane, or abusive. It is also not our intention to limit the poster's option to use occasional curse words to demonstrate a point. However, pointless harassment or excessive or obscene cursing will be edited or deleted. We have a censor in place to disguise certain inappropriate words. Bypassing it will cause your post to be edited or deleted.

Any post explicitly sexual in nature, an invasion of a person's privacy, abusing our censor, or in other way violating the law, may be edited or removed and the user may be banned (at the discretion of the Administrators).



Personal attacks are not welcome at any point. I am not saying they have happened, but I can see where this is going so I am saying this so I don't have to later. If you want to discuss the content of the article in a constructive manner you are very welcome to, but attacks against the authors are not welcome. Remember that the authors will not improve their writing if they see you as doing nothing but flame. Constructive criticism can help improve future articles.
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#78
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Anyone that writes an article has to be able to take criticism, people won't always like what they read. If it's flaming then the mods need to do their jobs and remove the posts.

Unfortunately, spewing logical sounding crap isnt constituted as breaking a rule, nor the level of criticism I'd like to read here... It's some people's version of Glenn Beck's "I'm only asking the question!"...


If it was really that illogical surely you wouldn't get upset about it because you know in your heart of hearts they are wrong? It is a bit rich for the staff of the Times to hit out at people that are posting negative things and calling them petty when they are being just that.

#79
Soma2035
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Maybe SOME people shouldn't be criticising voluntairly written articles by a standard of thesis writers?

Like it or not, this is the best the community has to offer, cuz noone sane enough would want to write month after month and then proceed to listen to your [cabbage]storm :)


It's not the standard of thesis writers. It's just disturbing that Tip.It is willing to publish so incredibly biased and unsupported claims. Did you read the article in question yourself?

At the forefront of popularity are the quests Jagex rolls out. Long considered the “core” or “main story” of the Gielinor experience, quests have been inextricably linked to the real background your character develops, and the personality he or she carries around. Jagex promotes this popularity with the oft-desired quest cape; an item that they promise will become more and more exclusive over time, as the challenge to acquire this becomes ever more daunting.


This itself was incredibly disturbing to me. Quests were at the forefront of popularity? What population is this based on? I have long since hated quests for the incredibly poor storytelling and role-playing aspects. Personality? Your character's personality changes every quest. Your character's actions are depressingly uncharacteristic of the character you actually play.

One of the biggest examples of this is the Blood Runs Deep quest. This quest was literally ridiculous in how bad the storytelling was. Let's start with the rescue. Wait a moment, why are we escorting him through the caves again? There's these handy little spells that let me teleport other people. Not only that, but in the quest that's required for Blood Runs Deep, we saw these spells being applied in this way - to rescue someone in danger. Why can't we do this now? Because Jagex wants to force an encounter with Asgard at the end. Obviously the area is not teleport proofed, because I can teleport just fine. It's not a teleport block, else we could just wait it out.

Fastforward a bit in the quest. Now we're about to take on a bunch of Dagannoths... and there are volunteers to help me with the Dagannoth Kings. The same Dagannoth Kings which should be dead, as I've lost count of how many times I've killed them. The same Dagannoth Kings that I can take on, all at once, without breaking a sweat. Seriously, I have a 5-0 record with the king of the Fight Caves. I've taken down the Nomad with a third of my supplies left, without using a beast of burden to carry more. And what's more? I'm invincible. I forgot all my equipment during one of the earlier quests in the spirit realm with Baba Yaga. I died, and came back moments later. No big deal. Why do I need help, again?

This is the poor story-telling you experience in a game where Jagex's options are limited. They CAN'T create dozens of scenarios for every situation. Remember While Guthix Sleeps? "Hey, I'm sorry I killed your guys before, I'm on your side now, so trust me!" There's no option to work with Lucien. There's no option to leave it all alone and see how things turn out. And again, a bunch of characters throw their lives away to save someone who's invincible.

I'm not blaming Jagex for this. Most other MMOs experience similar failings, because you can't really tell a story that's suitable to how your varied player base plays this game. But at the same time, many players regard quests as gimmicky click sequences. You click on the right thing, at the right time, with the right items in your inventory. Splash a little combat in for good measure. Add a reward of experience points and exclusive items.

I'm not holding this to the standard of a thesis writer. I just feel that when an author makes such huge presumptions with no source, and little evidence, he deserves any criticism leveled his way because of it.

#80
Ts_Stormrage
[ Display Name History ]

Ts_Stormrage

    A storm is coming...

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Anyone that writes an article has to be able to take criticism, people won't always like what they read. If it's flaming then the mods need to do their jobs and remove the posts.

Unfortunately, spewing logical sounding crap isnt constituted as breaking a rule, nor the level of criticism I'd like to read here... It's some people's version of Glenn Beck's "I'm only asking the question!"...


If it was really that illogical surely you wouldn't get upset about it because you know in your heart of hearts they are wrong? It is a bit rich for the staff of the Times to hit out at people that are posting negative things and calling them petty when they are being just that.

Actually I would get upset, because not only is the illogical-ness of it infecting the rest of the community (have epople not recently shouted that the commnity is in the toilet?), but when people proceed to insult the writers personally, the line has been crossed...
And I have every right to call a turd a turd, even if that turd can speak :)

And Soma2035... Just because we cannot prove how many quest capes are out there, doesn't mean the author can not asume quests are not popular... I can make an argument of "Just because you dont liek quests... etc", but I wont... Quests are, considering the amount of feedback on the official forums, at least as popular as any skill is... The difference is that once you complete a quest, you can never do it again, and skills simply dont dissapear...

We will probably disagree on that, which is fine by me, but continuing to state that this "asumption" validates any and all mud slung at the author, is simply wrong...

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