SGS vs EE

[TheAncient]

But overall, there is no significant advantage to either of those, and claws could actually be the best...so why bother? Yet again, tell me a place where SGS is significantly getter than EEE, because, as i said before, EEE is better for most situations, not to mention timing and healing overload damage(alot of people use the defense levels from EEE, so you really should consider that). Also, there is no way in hell that SGS is more than 90% accurate on supreme. NO WAY. assuming 100% accuracy is a significant mistake in the calculations.

 

I'm not saying SGS is, in all cases, significantly better. I'm saying there are certain benefits to both that really make it a matter of personal preference, and that neither is categorically better than the other. It's highly situational.

 

You can use an overload timer.

 

You didn't prove EEE is significantly better in most situations. Yes, it has its benefits which you mentioned, but so does SGS.

 

Also, I would say rapier is about 80-90% accurate on supreme. SGS has a significantly higher slash bonus than rapier's stab bonus and has an accuracy boost for its spec. Therefore, it should be more accurate than rapier.

[xpx]

But overall, there is no significant advantage to either of those, and claws could actually be the best...so why bother? Yet again, tell me a place where SGS is significantly getter than EEE, because, as i said before, EEE is better for most situations, not to mention timing and healing overload damage(alot of people use the defense levels from EEE, so you really should consider that). Also, there is no way in hell that SGS is more than 90% accurate on supreme. NO WAY. assuming 100% accuracy is a significant mistake in the calculations.

 

I'm not saying SGS is, in all cases, significantly better. I'm saying there are certain benefits to both that really make it a matter of personal preference, and that neither is categorically better than the other. It's highly situational.

 

You can use an overload timer.

 

You didn't prove EEE is significantly better in most situations. Yes, it has its benefits which you mentioned, but so does SGS.

 

Also, I would say rapier is about 80-90% accurate on supreme. SGS has a significantly higher slash bonus than rapier's stab bonus and has an accuracy boost for its spec. Therefore, it should be more accurate than rapier.

FSH doesn't work for specials so no, it shouldn't be more accurate. Rapier is around 80% accurate. The EEE works well for overloads because it will heal most of the damage, just when needed, and it VERY reliable, which can't be said for SGS.

 

But yeah, if you want your calculations to matter at all(which they really don't right now):

 

Account for accuracy. Account for the free super defense. Account for reliability. Account for the added risk. Account for the fact that you lose 50m of flipping money(which is significant when you have under 500m). I might be forgetting something, but you are certainly forgetting alot of factors.

[TheAncient]

FSH doesn't work for specials so no, it shouldn't be more accurate. Rapier is around 80% accurate. The EEE works well for overloads because it will heal most of the damage, just when needed, and it VERY reliable, which can't be said for SGS.

 

But yeah, if you want your calculations to matter at all(which they really don't right now):

 

Account for accuracy. Account for the free super defense. Account for reliability. Account for the added risk. Account for the fact that you lose 50m of flipping money(which is significant when you have under 500m). I might be forgetting something, but you are certainly forgetting alot of factors.

 

FSH? What is that?

 

By that logic, I also have to account for the time it takes to finish the elites and the stats required, etc. And then I have to make a lot more assumptions on how people value their time and how people evaulate skilling time. Which is all subjective. That's why I'm ignoring all of those costs. Everyone can make that part of the decision themselves. I'm only looking at which one is better from a perspective of actual use.

 

We can't determine accuracy reliably without any data. It's just a total guess. If you really care, I'll just rephrase my conclusion:

 

"SGS and EEE have very similar theoretical gains in inventory saved per special bar."

[xpx]

100% accuracy is not a guess, it's a purposely made flaw. At best, you could use 90%, but even that is pushing it. FSH is full slayer helmet. For most people, getting the stats for EEE is as hard as getting the 50m free money to buy one, and you don't actually lose any efficiency getting the stats for EEE being a well-rounded player.

 

But aswell as saying that last quote, you could also say that there is no reason in getting SGS when you already have EEE since it is situationally much better, and never much worse(just like rapier over CLS).

[TheAncient]

100% accuracy is not a guess, it's a purposely made flaw. At best, you could use 90%, but even that is pushing it. FSH is full slayer helmet. For most people, getting the stats for EEE is as hard as getting the 50m free money to buy one, and you don't actually lose any efficiency getting the stats for EEE being a well-rounded player.

 

But aswell as saying that last quote, you could also say that there is no reason in getting SGS when you already have EEE since it is situationally much better, and never much worse(just like rapier over CLS).

 

100% accuracy is not perfect - I agree. But it's still an assumption I made, and stated, to make the calculations easier. The deviation from these theoretical values, is in my opinion, small. Your opinion is that they aren't. Neither of us is clearly right until we have data to back up our claims.

 

EEE and SGS are both better than each other situationally. It isn't a perfect analogy to CLS vs Rapier because CLS's situational benefits over rapier are much smaller than SGS's situational benefits over EEE. But you don't think so - which is fine, that's just your opinion, and this is mine.

 

You could really just argue that gaining 40M in capital for an SGS is more useful than getting stats to be a well-rounded player. But again, that boils down to personal preference.

 

I don't really see a point in arguing this with you anymore. It's clear that we have pretty different assumptions and there's no point trying to convince the other without data.

[Bladewing]

if you eat on supreme then you are kinda dumb. flash soulsplit.

 

the only time i ever have to eat at dks is if im killing prime and supreme is on me.

 

you have yet to prove that SGS is significantly better than EE, which is the only reason why you would buy it. saying "i don't see a point in arguing" shows how little gravity your assertion holds.

[TheAncient]

if you eat on supreme then you are kinda dumb. flash soulsplit.

 

the only time i ever have to eat at dks is if im killing prime and supreme is on me.

 

you have yet to prove that SGS is significantly better than EE, which is the only reason why you would buy it. saying "i don't see a point in arguing" shows how little gravity your assertion holds.

 

If you're 2.5ing correctly you will be tanking supreme a lot of the time... you should never kill prime and have supreme on you.

 

My assertion is that both are approximately equal and they have situational benefits over the other. The math backs the "approximately equal" (assuming 100% accuracy, which is slightly off but reasonably within the margin of error). The part I don't see a point in arguing about is the situational benefits because those are so dependent on preference.

[Bladewing]

i consider using a cannon on prime to be killing prime, but point taken.

 

the real issue is that tying up 50m gp in a sword costs me at least 2m a day in lost profits, so SGS is much more costly to use than EE which is comparable if not superior to the SGS for my uses.

[TheAncient]

i consider using a cannon on prime to be killing prime, but point taken.

 

the real issue is that tying up 50m gp in a sword costs me at least 2m a day in lost profits, so SGS is much more costly to use than EE which is comparable if not superior to the SGS for my uses.

 

I agree with the point about the 50M. I said in one my earlier replies that this is probably the most important reason to use EE over SGS. Same can be said for skills though - if you don't want to do elites or don't want to train skills, that's one good reason to use SGS over EE. Just happens that most people have the skills for elite but don't have an extra 50M lying around.

 

But for people who really care about certain small advantages, or don't flip (like me), SGS can still be worth it.

[SirIzenhime]

The only place I use my SGS anymore is when I'm tanking at Zammy GWD. Anywhere else I can Soul Split for hp, and TBH, I haven't run out of Prayer potions in...months. I get so many Ranarr drops at such a fast rate, that I've been gaining prayer potions....and I use Turmoil on basically everything.

[ghjkl]

Supreme dies before prime with cannoning.

The max of sgs is around 800 with max strength bonus. The average hit is 400, the average heal per spec bar is 400. Therefore assuming max accuracy and strength bonus, sgs can only tie with eee. Sgs is useless outside of spec and protects over rapier. When you are 2.5ing you should bring eee, everything else will protect over rapier. Sgs has no uses.

[SirIzenhime]

Sgs has no uses.

 

Tanking zammy, the prayer restore to cushion his slam attacks is actually quiet amazing

[TheAncient]

Supreme dies before prime with cannoning.

The max of sgs is around 800 with max strength bonus. The average hit is 400, the average heal per spec bar is 400. Therefore assuming max accuracy and strength bonus, sgs can only tie with eee. Sgs is useless outside of spec and protects over rapier. When you are 2.5ing you should bring eee, everything else will protect over rapier. Sgs has no uses.

 

You totally ignored prayer restore. Also those numbers are pretty off.

[ghjkl]

Just did a max hit calc using tipits calculator, the max hit of sgs speccing in max str gear is 699. That means that hitting all the time, sgs will heal 350 per spec bar and 17 prayer points. 17 prayer is less than half a dose of prayer potion.

Edit: oh wow I just realized I didn't read the first post and started on the second page.

You have to take in account that sgs won't always hit, and that using sgs means you get 2 turns of crappy damage and lose 3 turns of rapier hitting. You can use an eee spec without interrupting a combat cycle.

[Sir_Squab]

Major flaw is you assume it's assuming you have 100% accuracy. This is RS. YOU REALLY FREAKING DON'T HAVE 100% ACCURACY.

 

My favorite example is Dharoking. This happened. I'm Dharoking at ape atoll, a level 2 spider attacks me. I have Great Axe, over 100 slash and str bonus, right? Something like that.

 

I hit a 0.

 

Ok, try again. 0...

 

0. Er...

 

0...k, why aren't I hitting?

 

0. wtf.

 

0....

 

0....

 

I don't know how many times I hit 0, but I know that to finally kill the spider I removed the freaking axe and kicked it.....

 

SO, basically, any 100% accuracy bonus argument is always going to be flawed on RS. (Except maybe for dark bow...)

[_AGS_STAR_]

AGS.

 

jk ee imo because its free and I cant afford a sgs :D + SGS misses and I know that because I borrow it sometimes..

[Squisher_33]

dont forget the defense boost

[_AGS_STAR_]

dont forget the defense boost

 

Cant forget the defence bonus! :D

[Squisher_33]

dont forget the defense boost

 

Cant forget the defence bonus! :D

 

also eee is 1h, thats an advantage however small it may be

[_AGS_STAR_]

dont forget the defense boost

 

Cant forget the defence bonus! :D

 

also eee is 1h, thats an advantage however small it may be

 

 

Very small considering it has the stats of a rune longsword :S

[Zaaps1]

dont forget the defense boost

 

Cant forget the defence bonus! :D

 

also eee is 1h, thats an advantage however small it may be

 

 

Very small considering it has the stats of a rune longsword :S

 

I think he means that you won't need to leave a free inventory space when you switch to your EE, like you do for SGS.

 

Also to add to the accuracy department, it is almost impossible to get a 100% accuracy rating. Even the TzTok-Jad can't manage it. Against roosters, Jad has a 99.78% chance of hitting, VERY close to perfect, but not quite. Then consider how low defense roosters have, then consider how much attack Jad has. When you then think of us players, with comparatively minuscule attack ratings, slaying God Wars generals or such, it seems entirely implausible to assume anything above 90-95%.

[Assume Nothing]

Major flaw is you assume it's assuming you have 100% accuracy. This is RS. YOU REALLY FREAKING DON'T HAVE 100% ACCURACY.

 

My favorite example is Dharoking. This happened. I'm Dharoking at ape atoll, a level 2 spider attacks me. I have Great Axe, over 100 slash and str bonus, right? Something like that.

 

I hit a 0.

 

Ok, try again. 0...

 

0. Er...

 

0...k, why aren't I hitting?

 

0. wtf.

 

0....

 

0....

 

I don't know how many times I hit 0, but I know that to finally kill the spider I removed the freaking axe and kicked it.....

 

SO, basically, any 100% accuracy bonus argument is always going to be flawed on RS. (Except maybe for dark bow...)

 

Dark Bow and Korasi says hi.

 

I think the EE is inferior to SGS in certain circumstances, but EEE > SgS in most situations.

[Naraku893]

EEE

[SirIzenhime]

[hide]

Major flaw is you assume it's assuming you have 100% accuracy. This is RS. YOU REALLY FREAKING DON'T HAVE 100% ACCURACY.

 

My favorite example is Dharoking. This happened. I'm Dharoking at ape atoll, a level 2 spider attacks me. I have Great Axe, over 100 slash and str bonus, right? Something like that.

 

I hit a 0.

 

Ok, try again. 0...

 

0. Er...

 

0...k, why aren't I hitting?

 

0. wtf.

 

0....

 

0....

 

I don't know how many times I hit 0, but I know that to finally kill the spider I removed the freaking axe and kicked it.....

 

SO, basically, any 100% accuracy bonus argument is always going to be flawed on RS. (Except maybe for dark bow...)

[/hide]

Dark Bow and Korasi says hi.

 

He said the dark bow at the end of his post.

[xpx]

[hide]

Major flaw is you assume it's assuming you have 100% accuracy. This is RS. YOU REALLY FREAKING DON'T HAVE 100% ACCURACY.

 

My favorite example is Dharoking. This happened. I'm Dharoking at ape atoll, a level 2 spider attacks me. I have Great Axe, over 100 slash and str bonus, right? Something like that.

 

I hit a 0.

 

Ok, try again. 0...

 

0. Er...

 

0...k, why aren't I hitting?

 

0. wtf.

 

0....

 

0....

 

I don't know how many times I hit 0, but I know that to finally kill the spider I removed the freaking axe and kicked it.....

 

SO, basically, any 100% accuracy bonus argument is always going to be flawed on RS. (Except maybe for dark bow...)

[/hide]

Dark Bow and Korasi says hi.

 

He said the dark bow at the end of his post.

There has been a 100% accurate weapon from almost the start of rs2, from the time special attacks were released- magic longbow. Though yeah, SGS spec is anything but 100% accurate.