SGS vs EE

[Sir_Squab]

Sgs is incredibly inferior when it comes to healing, sgs only use is the prayer bonus.

 

EEE can be used anywhere doing anything such as agilty, theiving or living rock caverns to name a few. As you stated with your possbily flawed calculations Sgs is already clearly inferior for healing and added with the use of special restores and ring of vigour the gap only widens.

 

The ease of replacement, being a one handed weapon and being quick to execute only improves the EEE argument, i can't see how Sgs can be superior for healing in ANY way.

 

Please try and prove me wrong.

 

Well, when you put in the line ANY, I have to try. What about waterfiends with extremes and turmoil...? Yeah, most of the time EEE would be better, but I think using the word phrase "in ANY way" is flawed.

 

What about training str on spiritual mages with an SS, deflect mage, turmoil, using zammy arrow as zammy item and SGS/SS as saradomin item? And the rest of your items don't have any "Godly" alignment? Say using prosellyte, fury, nomads cape, barrow glvoes, dragon/bandos boots? I'm certain in this peculiar, abstract case, SGS would be better. So it is false the the SGS can not be superior to the EEE in ANY way.

 

 

Also, as i said, i'm not a member- i can't and couln't prove it, and absolute proof of the fact is theoretically impossible due to the build of the game. I'm not saying you are stupid because you do or do not trust me or tip.it, but rather because you trust a vague quote from RSKB over me/tip.it.

 

I'll consult your guidiance first hand next time, oh great know-it-all :rolleyes:

Just sayin'...that sounded very arrogant.

Did i say that i can be consulted on any subject? don't think so. The point is, if you blindly trust anything said in the RSKB, you are bound to get called an idiot time and again- it has nothing to do with what i know or the tip.it, but the fact that RSKB is known to be riddled with mistakes(and you could make the argument that you just found another one), but you still used it to try and prove a point(which you terribly failed at).

 

You seem to be just blindly trusting a fansite.... You know, I've half a mind to test the MLB thing lol.

[SirIzenhime]

At least I actually did something to prove it, rather than just blindly calling someone an idiot. And don't use membership as an excuse, because to be honest, if you aren't even physically able to prove/disprove something, you really shouldn't be arguing about it. I still think trusting the KB over a fan-made site is generally your best bet unless the fact in mind is actually proven otherwise.

 

I won't be looking at this thread anymore. Don't bother replying.

[xpx]

 

Also, as i said, i'm not a member- i can't and couln't prove it, and absolute proof of the fact is theoretically impossible due to the build of the game. I'm not saying you are stupid because you do or do not trust me or tip.it, but rather because you trust a vague quote from RSKB over me/tip.it.

 

I'll consult your guidiance first hand next time, oh great know-it-all :rolleyes:

Just sayin'...that sounded very arrogant.

Did i say that i can be consulted on any subject? don't think so. The point is, if you blindly trust anything said in the RSKB, you are bound to get called an idiot time and again- it has nothing to do with what i know or the tip.it, but the fact that RSKB is known to be riddled with mistakes(and you could make the argument that you just found another one), but you still used it to try and prove a point(which you terribly failed at).

 

You seem to be just blindly trusting a fansite.... You know, I've half a mind to test the MLB thing lol.

I have tested this. MORE THAN 6 YEARS AGO. Thus, I knew the 100% accuracy as a FACT, thus i mentioned it as a FACT. Mr RSKB fanboy, however, had the nerve to doubt my knowledge, and what do you know, because the KB didn't have this particular piece of information, I had to be lieing, even though the fact was also mentioned on tip.it. I politely mentioned to that particular RSKB fanboy that the KB is known to have alot of mistakes, but he resulted to being ignorant to that fact, thus yes, I think he is an idiot. I never said that neither RSKB nor fansites are always correct or incorrect, but if you categorically refuse to believe something I know as a fact and require proof of something next to impossible to prove(and completely impossible in my situation), furthermore refusing to try it out for yourself, you are an idiot.

 

All in all, all mr KB fanboy did is prove me right in both respects(MLB spec is 100% accurate and RSKB isn't reliable as reference).

This brings up a good point. I don't understand obsession with exact calculations. Heuristics is valid - we only need a close enough approximation. We don't know much about RS mechanics so there's no point in trying to find exact formulas rather than ones which are 99% accurate.

The problem is that he wanted proof of something. While it's easy to prove that the equipment stats of a particular weapon is wrong or right, things that delve alot deeper into the build of the game are very hard to prove, and sometimes near impossible. For accuracy, it requires a large amount of data to arrive at any meaningful conclusion, and even then you'd have to take into account that hitting a 0 doesn't always mean a miss, so even if you miss every (max hit+1)'th time, the special would still be considered 100% accurate.

[SirIzenhime]

I have tested this. MORE THAN 6 YEARS AGO. Thus, I knew the 100% accuracy as a FACT, thus i mentioned it as a FACT. Mr RSKB fanboy, however, had the nerve to doubt my knowledge, and what do you know, because the KB didn't have this particular piece of information, I had to be lieing, even though the fact was also mentioned on tip.it. I politely mentioned to that particular RSKB fanboy that the KB is known to have alot of mistakes, but he resulted to being ignorant to that fact, thus yes, I think he is an idiot. I never said that neither RSKB nor fansites are always correct or incorrect, but if you categorically refuse to believe something I know as a fact and require proof of something next to impossible to prove(and completely impossible in my situation), furthermore refusing to try it out for yourself, you are an idiot.

 

All in all, all mr KB fanboy did is prove me right in both respects(MLB spec is 100% accurate and RSKB isn't reliable as reference).

 

Ok I lied, I did come back. It would have been great for you to mention that you actually did test this. I was never told you did, if I was, I would have believed you. See how simple that would be?

 

I like Mr RSKB fanboy btw. Insults are the best way to get a point across, aren't they? :rolleyes:

I didn't know calling someone stupid was being polite.

I did end up trying it out myself anyways...care to take back this?

 

furthermore refusing to try it out for yourself, you are an idiot.

 

You know, this all could have been ended from the start had you simply said. "I tested this awhile back". Instead, all I got was a link to the Tip.It range guide, and insults because I put my trust in Jagex.

 

These forums get better and better (they honestly do actually, stuff like this is so much fun to read through, and reply to). Keep up the good work guys :thumbup:

[Zaaps1]

I don't mean to restart an argument that seems to have been settled, but I would like to reassert some truths xpx has mentioned.

 

The Knowledge Base is notoriously unreliable. I can't give you a definite percentage, but it is oftentimes wrong about information, even information added the day of release. On the Crew, we do not trust the KB to provide us with raw information and will instead refer to data we have obtained ourselves or through submissions.

 

While I can't say that Tip.It is 100% correct 100% of the time, I will say that no wrong information deliberately is put on the site. Also, I can't say I was around for the initial testing of the MLB's spec, but I am confident that whatever Crew member added that entry was certain and had data to prove it. It wasn't from immemorial times, after all.

 

So while yes, the Tip.It guide could've been wrong and the MLB isn't 100% accuracy, I think that acknowledging that it does have 100% accuracy is a safe bet. In any case, it definitely was not worth starting a whole argument over.

 

And while you CAN trust Jagex (through their newsposts and forum posts), you really CAN'T trust the Knowledge Base. I mean, you could, but it's not very reliable. Like, at all.

 

Again, I just want to make that clear. I just want to acknowledge truths.

[TheAncient]

Just realized something...

Magic longbow sighted spec also has 100% accuracy, and its spec bar only costs 35%. You can almost do 4 of these specs in a row with spec restore (if you get a leech spec in between hits, you can do 4); normally you can do 3. It has 6-speed.

 

Alternatively, you can combo with KS and then MLB(S) for 2 hits with 100% acc.

Does this seem at all useful?

[xpx]

Sir, how is calling me a liar(which you effectively did) any better than me considering you stupid? I started out politely, pointing out that your argument about the KB was not really an argument, and you blatantly resulted to being ignorant and saying that i post lies. If you had any decency, you would have first resorted to trying out your claim, not starting a flame-war. You seemed to take the 100% accuracy of KS and DB specs as facts, but because i didn't mention having tried out the accuracy of the spec, i must have been wrong? Stop the hypocrisy, speak about what you know and don't start pointless flame-wars because you want to look better than someone- as we can clearly see, and i say this yet again, you were wrong on both accounts, so please, next time, talk about what you know as a fact(which is what i did).

[Zaaps1]

Just realized something...

Magic longbow sighted spec also has 100% accuracy, and its spec bar only costs 35%. You can almost do 4 of these specs in a row with spec restore (if you get a leech spec in between hits, you can do 4); normally you can do 3. It has 6-speed.

 

Alternatively, you can combo with KS and then MLB(S) for 2 hits with 100% acc.

Does this seem at all useful?

 

That's interesting. How does Leech Spec work? Is it 100% or a chance like the Deflect curses are?

[xpx]

Just realized something...

Magic longbow sighted spec also has 100% accuracy, and its spec bar only costs 35%. You can almost do 4 of these specs in a row with spec restore (if you get a leech spec in between hits, you can do 4); normally you can do 3. It has 6-speed.

 

Alternatively, you can combo with KS and then MLB(S) for 2 hits with 100% acc.

Does this seem at all useful?

The problem with that is that the absolute max hit with zamorak arrows in safe pvp is around 400, which is far too low for any KO potential, however it could be useful in terms of being able to spec with full melee armor and not worry about accuracy, though the spec has no help in terms of increasing average damage.

[Sir_Squab]

For the record, 100% accuracy could mean that your guaranteed to HIT; on the other hand it does not mean you will hit HIGH.

[Bladewing]

For the record, 100% accuracy could mean that your guaranteed to HIT; on the other hand it does not mean you will hit HIGH.

obvious, but thanks for pointing it out i guess

[stonewall337]

the lower the defence, the more inferior SGS becomes because whip/rapier would be even more powerful

 

not necessarily for supreme. SGS on supreme is useful in that it, depending on how fast you brew, or if you're using sharks, can save you an attack turn that you otherwise would have spent eating. this is what makes sgs's offense capabilities so unique: it's an accurate, powerful hit that also heals you.

 

however, you need your opponent to have relatively low defense for this to work out reliably. that's what i meant.

 

Apples and oranges here. You are comparing SGS to EEE healing, but using SGS vs Food. In other words, you can't use the argument that you are losing an attack turn by eating food when EEE IS USED BETWEEN SPECS. Its an illogical argument. SGS will always lose 3 rounds for whip/CR. EEE won't. Therefore that argument doesn't factor in to deciding whether EEE or SGS is better, but would work if comparing healing with say sharks, brews, or SGS.

 

And if you are overloading on supreme you are doing it wrong. You should easily be able to time them so that either: 1.) Prime is dead when they run out 2.) You are maging rex when overload runs out 3.) Supreme is almost dead, and you just overload after supreme dies. 4.) Just run out of the lair, and sneak away so prime isn't on you (only if new to DKS really)

[Sir_Squab]

For the record, 100% accuracy could mean that your guaranteed to HIT; on the other hand it does not mean you will hit HIGH.

obvious, but thanks for pointing it out i guess

 

Just realized something...

Magic longbow sighted spec also has 100% accuracy, and its spec bar only costs 35%. You can almost do 4 of these specs in a row with spec restore (if you get a leech spec in between hits, you can do 4); normally you can do 3. It has 6-speed.

 

Alternatively, you can combo with KS and then MLB(S) for 2 hits with 100% acc.

Does this seem at all useful?

The problem with that is that the absolute max hit with zamorak arrows in safe pvp is around 400, which is far too low for any KO potential, however it could be useful in terms of being able to spec with full melee armor and not worry about accuracy, though the spec has no help in terms of increasing average damage.

 

The people in my 2nd quote appear to have forgotten that fact bladewing.

 

EDIT: And here is pretty damned definite proof that the MLB always hits.

 

 

If I can hit on the KQ, WITH RANGE PRO, wearing veracs and wielding the MLB, that to me is conclusive evidence that you always hit with MLB.

[stonewall337]

KQ's range pray works the same as protection prayers in PvP, then only block some of the damage, instead of all, as TD's prayer does.

[Sir_Squab]

KQ's range pray works the same as protection prayers in PvP, then only block some of the damage, instead of all, as TD's prayer does.

 

Whatever. Note the fact that I was in full Veracs, which has a decent negative ranged bonus, my max range level for a spec was 2, and although she only has "partial" protect against range, rather then 100% immunity, the purpose of her prayer and ranged defense was designed so that for all practical purposes she's immune to ranged damage. So, fine, not 100% proved, but what's more likely: twice, with the MLB spec, I managed to be obscenely lucky, twice in a row, to shoot a powerful enough ranged attack to pierce a ranged defence so high that, for all practical purposes is (or is supposed to be) an immunity?

 

Or that the MLB is guaranteed to hit....?

[Butt_Snakes]

SGS = 50m

EEE = FrEEE

[TheAncient]

May not have KO potential, but useful when food is off, or comboing (I'm pretty sure you could stack a barrage on top of a MLB spec and then immediately transition to KS spec)

 

Even hitting a 200-150-450 is very deadly.

[SirIzenhime]

 

EDIT: And here is pretty damned definite proof that the MLB always hits.

 

 

If I can hit on the KQ, WITH RANGE PRO, wearing veracs and wielding the MLB, that to me is conclusive evidence that you always hit with MLB.

 

Thanks, but I've already done that

 

Edit: So I had nothing better to do and decided to do a little self-proving. I wore what ever negative range attacking armor I could find, got some bronze arrows, saradomin brewed to 1 attack, and used the spec on the Kalphite Queen first form.

 

Both attacks hit, so you are correct that MLB spec is 100% accurate (or I got astronomically lucky both hits). However, the majority of my statements still stand. Some proof would have been nice, instead of flaming and calling me stupid.

[All_Is_Great]

I gave you proof though.

 

Anyways, the MLB is an old weapon, and is seldom used, it's ok if you didn't know about it's special attack (maybe you started playing later than me idk). None of us know everything about the game, so it's good to listen to other people when you're not very sure, instead of denying it outright.

[Sir_Squab]

 

EDIT: And here is pretty damned definite proof that the MLB always hits.

 

 

If I can hit on the KQ, WITH RANGE PRO, wearing veracs and wielding the MLB, that to me is conclusive evidence that you always hit with MLB.

 

Thanks, but I've already done that

 

Edit: So I had nothing better to do and decided to do a little self-proving. I wore what ever negative range attacking armor I could find, got some bronze arrows, saradomin brewed to 1 attack, and used the spec on the Kalphite Queen first form.

 

Both attacks hit, so you are correct that MLB spec is 100% accurate (or I got astronomically lucky both hits). However, the majority of my statements still stand. Some proof would have been nice, instead of flaming and calling me stupid.

 

*blinks* Somehow, the first time I read that, I read it as a recommendation how to prove it, not as something done o.O sorry.

[SirIzenhime]

I gave you proof though.

 

Anyways, the MLB is an old weapon, and is seldom used, it's ok if you didn't know about it's special attack (maybe you started playing later than me idk). None of us know everything about the game, so it's good to listen to other people when you're not very sure, instead of denying it outright.

 

That wasn't proof, and I'm not going to start this all over again.

[halo475]

I can't see how Sgs can be superior for HEALING in ANY way.

 

Well, when you put in the line ANY, I have to try. What about waterfiends with extremes and turmoil...? Yeah, most of the time EEE would be better, but I think using the word phrase "in ANY way" is flawed.

 

What about training str on spiritual mages with an SS, deflect mage, turmoil, using zammy arrow as zammy item and SGS/SS as saradomin item? And the rest of your items don't have any "Godly" alignment? Say using prosellyte, fury, nomads cape, barrow glvoes, dragon/bandos boots? I'm certain in this peculiar, abstract case, SGS would be better. So it is false the the SGS can not be superior to the EEE in ANY way.

 

 

Important part of my post that you must of missed is in capitals and in bold.

[Sir_Squab]

I can't see how Sgs can be superior for HEALING in ANY way.

 

Well, when you put in the line ANY, I have to try. What about waterfiends with extremes and turmoil...? Yeah, most of the time EEE would be better, but I think using the word phrase "in ANY way" is flawed.

 

What about training str on spiritual mages with an SS, deflect mage, turmoil, using zammy arrow as zammy item and SGS/SS as saradomin item? And the rest of your items don't have any "Godly" alignment? Say using prosellyte, fury, nomads cape, barrow glvoes, dragon/bandos boots? I'm certain in this peculiar, abstract case, SGS would be better. So it is false the the SGS can not be superior to the EEE in ANY way.

 

 

Important part of my post that you must of missed is in capitals and in bold.

 

Extremes/overloads and turmoil on a low def monster? Low enough def that your average SGS spec hit is 450+? That heals 225lp per spec, 450 per spec bar, 50 more then EEE.

 

Anyways, in my peculiar, abstract case, the SGS is a sara item and the SS is as well. Remove the SS/SGS for EEE and you have no saradomin item, causing lots or a few saradomin creatures to attack you, thus the net health change as a result of EEE is less then SGS.

 

Or again, extremes/overloads and turmoil on a low def monster. I'm not saying the SGS is a better overall choice; all you need is ONE case where SGS is better, and your statement is false (even if EEE is better 99% of the time.)

 

What if someone simply doesn't like the fact that you need to lose what, 400lp before you can use the EEE special without risk of wasting it? Surely you can't be so narrow-minded that your brain cannot entertain the plausibility of a particular scenario where the SGS is more useful for healing?

[ghjkl]

Yea sure if sgs has max hit of 800 and hits all the time, it can be better than eee. Find me a pic of sgs hitting 800, oops it can't. And lol at needing healing at sara mages. Find me another case for me to disprove, if you can.

[Bladewing]

if you don't need the ee for healing 400 on a monster, you shouldn't be using either and should buy d claws or korasi's sword or dds.

 

and you don't use sara items at spirit mages, you use zamorak.

 

this thread is 100% rationalization to justify why you continue to keep your overpriced and underpowered sword.