SGS vs EE

[SirIzenhime]

[hide]

Major flaw is you assume it's assuming you have 100% accuracy. This is RS. YOU REALLY FREAKING DON'T HAVE 100% ACCURACY.

 

My favorite example is Dharoking. This happened. I'm Dharoking at ape atoll, a level 2 spider attacks me. I have Great Axe, over 100 slash and str bonus, right? Something like that.

 

I hit a 0.

 

Ok, try again. 0...

 

0. Er...

 

0...k, why aren't I hitting?

 

0. wtf.

 

0....

 

0....

 

I don't know how many times I hit 0, but I know that to finally kill the spider I removed the freaking axe and kicked it.....

 

SO, basically, any 100% accuracy bonus argument is always going to be flawed on RS. (Except maybe for dark bow...)

[/hide]

Dark Bow and Korasi says hi.

 

He said the dark bow at the end of his post.

There has been a 100% accurate weapon from almost the start of rs2, from the time special attacks were released- magic longbow. Though yeah, SGS spec is anything but 100% accurate.

 

 

"This attack uses the full power of the longbow and will have an increased chance of hitting your opponent"

 

Taken from the KB, I didn't know 'increased chance' meant 100%

[xpx]

[hide]

Major flaw is you assume it's assuming you have 100% accuracy. This is RS. YOU REALLY FREAKING DON'T HAVE 100% ACCURACY.

 

My favorite example is Dharoking. This happened. I'm Dharoking at ape atoll, a level 2 spider attacks me. I have Great Axe, over 100 slash and str bonus, right? Something like that.

 

I hit a 0.

 

Ok, try again. 0...

 

0. Er...

 

0...k, why aren't I hitting?

 

0. wtf.

 

0....

 

0....

 

I don't know how many times I hit 0, but I know that to finally kill the spider I removed the freaking axe and kicked it.....

 

SO, basically, any 100% accuracy bonus argument is always going to be flawed on RS. (Except maybe for dark bow...)

[/hide]

Dark Bow and Korasi says hi.

 

He said the dark bow at the end of his post.

There has been a 100% accurate weapon from almost the start of rs2, from the time special attacks were released- magic longbow. Though yeah, SGS spec is anything but 100% accurate.

 

 

"This attack uses the full power of the longbow and will have an increased chance of hitting your opponent"

 

Taken from the KB, I didn't know 'increased chance' meant 100%

If it's said on the KB, it must be true.

no comment needed....

[SirIzenhime]

you're right, if you have no proof Magic Longbow always hits, then there is no comment needed. As long as I get some proof that Magic Longbow spec is 100% accurate, I'll agree you're right. Until then, I won't believe it.

[All_Is_Great]

you're right, if you have no proof Magic Longbow always hits, then there is no comment needed. As long as I get some proof that Magic Longbow spec is 100% accurate, I'll agree you're right. Until then, I won't believe it.

 

I remember reading somewhere a long time ago that the Magic longbow spec was designed to always hit.

 

EDIT: It's right here on tipit.

[SirIzenhime]

you're right, if you have no proof Magic Longbow always hits, then there is no comment needed. As long as I get some proof that Magic Longbow spec is 100% accurate, I'll agree you're right. Until then, I won't believe it.

 

I remember reading somewhere a long time ago that the Magic longbow spec was designed to always hit.

 

EDIT: It's right here on tipit.

 

How nice, a one line statement on a fan-made site with no proof to back it up.

I won't doubt the MLB spec is 100% accurate....if you show me proof. Until then, the safest bet is to trust the KB.

[Sir_Squab]

you're right, if you have no proof Magic Longbow always hits, then there is no comment needed. As long as I get some proof that Magic Longbow spec is 100% accurate, I'll agree you're right. Until then, I won't believe it.

 

I remember reading somewhere a long time ago that the Magic longbow spec was designed to always hit.

 

EDIT: It's right here on tipit.

 

How nice, a one line statement on a fan-made site with no proof to back it up.

I won't doubt the MLB spec is 100% accurate....if you show me proof. Until then, the safest bet is to trust the KB.

 

Let's just end the MLB argument with this: ASSUME it always hits. Unless something is put in with a MINIMUM hit, that means that the minimum hit would probably be 1. IF it's true. Either way, it's a useless fact, because the MLB sucks compared to current ranged weapons, and a guaranteed hit of 1 is fairly useless.... (Not trying to take sides, just saying that I don't think it really matters either way.)

 

Anyways, my point is, unless an item is specifically PROGRAMMED to have 100% accuracy, it does not have 100% accuracy. Which applies to the SGS; I owned one and I KNOW that I've hit 0 specs with it.

[J35u5_M4]

I remember I had a SGS for a long time... It was awesome, I couldn't think of another weapon better than it, this was before the curses update, after Soul Split, I started thinking twice before buying my SGS back because I could heal with SS and spend less in prayer potions than in the SGS, after that, the dungeoneering update, now we have chaotic weaponry that along with SS will assure you a quick heal.

 

SGS just isn't worth anymore with SS and Chaotic Weaponry :/

[xpx]

you're right, if you have no proof Magic Longbow always hits, then there is no comment needed. As long as I get some proof that Magic Longbow spec is 100% accurate, I'll agree you're right. Until then, I won't believe it.

 

I remember reading somewhere a long time ago that the Magic longbow spec was designed to always hit.

 

EDIT: It's right here on tipit.

 

How nice, a one line statement on a fan-made site with no proof to back it up.

I won't doubt the MLB spec is 100% accurate....if you show me proof. Until then, the safest bet is to trust the KB.

So chaotic crossbow is +100 range attack and the staff is 15% damage? right... If you trust the KB, then, i'm sorry, but you are very stupid.

 

In any case, it would be just as impossible for me to prove it to you as it would be for you to prove i'm wrong. Also, the KB does not specify if the hit is 100% accurate or not.

[Bladewing]

would be easy to prove that MLB is not 100% accurate. just screencap hitting a 0.

[xpx]

would be easy to prove that MLB is not 100% accurate. just screencap hitting a 0.

Spend next to infinite amount of time trying to miss? how does that work?

[SirIzenhime]

you're right, if you have no proof Magic Longbow always hits, then there is no comment needed. As long as I get some proof that Magic Longbow spec is 100% accurate, I'll agree you're right. Until then, I won't believe it.

 

I remember reading somewhere a long time ago that the Magic longbow spec was designed to always hit.

 

EDIT: It's right here on tipit.

 

How nice, a one line statement on a fan-made site with no proof to back it up.

I won't doubt the MLB spec is 100% accurate....if you show me proof. Until then, the safest bet is to trust the KB.

So chaotic crossbow is +100 range attack and the staff is 15% damage? right... If you trust the KB, then, i'm sorry, but you are very stupid.

 

In any case, it would be just as impossible for me to prove it to you as it would be for you to prove i'm wrong. Also, the KB does not specify if the hit is 100% accurate or not.

 

I knew you'd bring those up. You see, the difference here is that it's actually been proven wrong. There is no proof ANYWHERE that says the MLB spec is 100% accurate. So until then, what am I supposed to trust? A fan made 1 liner? A person who doesn't even has a source? Sorry but no, until proven other wise, I'll be trusting Jagex.

Are there any other specs Jagex have gotten wrong? If not, why should they mess just this one up?

(the Chaotic crossbow DID have 100 range attack btw) :rolleyes:

 

It's strange, I see so many people around here asking for proof on topic of real importance, and they actually get good answers, yet I ask for proof on such a small thing in the game, and get called stupid for trusting the makers of the game.

 

I'm not stupid, I'm just looking for proof.

 

Last I checked "a greater chance" doesn't mean "You'll always hit"

 

I can think of two monsters that this would be perfect to test on. However, I do not have an MLB, nor plan on wasting time trying to prove/dis-prove something that doesn't even matter.

[Troacctid]

However, I do not have an MLB

It's not like a DSS or something. They're pocket change on the GE and probably sell instantly, lol.

[halo475]

Sgs is incredibly inferior when it comes to healing, sgs only use is the prayer bonus.

 

EEE can be used anywhere doing anything such as agilty, theiving or living rock caverns to name a few. As you stated with your possbily flawed calculations Sgs is already clearly inferior for healing and added with the use of special restores and ring of vigour the gap only widens.

 

The ease of replacement, being a one handed weapon and being quick to execute only improves the EEE argument, i can't see how Sgs can be superior for healing in ANY way.

 

Please try and prove me wrong.

[xpx]

you're right, if you have no proof Magic Longbow always hits, then there is no comment needed. As long as I get some proof that Magic Longbow spec is 100% accurate, I'll agree you're right. Until then, I won't believe it.

 

I remember reading somewhere a long time ago that the Magic longbow spec was designed to always hit.

 

EDIT: It's right here on tipit.

 

How nice, a one line statement on a fan-made site with no proof to back it up.

I won't doubt the MLB spec is 100% accurate....if you show me proof. Until then, the safest bet is to trust the KB.

So chaotic crossbow is +100 range attack and the staff is 15% damage? right... If you trust the KB, then, i'm sorry, but you are very stupid.

 

In any case, it would be just as impossible for me to prove it to you as it would be for you to prove i'm wrong. Also, the KB does not specify if the hit is 100% accurate or not.

 

I knew you'd bring those up. You see, the difference here is that it's actually been proven wrong. There is no proof ANYWHERE that says the MLB spec is 100% accurate. So until then, what am I supposed to trust? A fan made 1 liner? A person who doesn't even has a source? Sorry but no, until proven other wise, I'll be trusting Jagex.

Are there any other specs Jagex have gotten wrong? If not, why should they mess just this one up?

(the Chaotic crossbow DID have 100 range attack btw) :rolleyes:

 

It's strange, I see so many people around here asking for proof on topic of real importance, and they actually get good answers, yet I ask for proof on such a small thing in the game, and get called stupid for trusting the makers of the game.

 

I'm not stupid, I'm just looking for proof.

 

Last I checked "a greater chance" doesn't mean "You'll always hit"

 

I can think of two monsters that this would be perfect to test on. However, I do not have an MLB, nor plan on wasting time trying to prove/dis-prove something that doesn't even matter.

Yes, you are very much stupid for trusting the makers of the game. Anyone with half a brain knows that jagex doesn't actually know much about the game, which is why fan-sites like tip.it are very much popular even now, much after the KB was released. The fact that there is proof that the stats of chaotic items are incorrect just proves that the KB is not always correct, thus can't ever be used for reference(like you are doing right now). In any case, the KB doesn't specify if the special attack is 100% accurate or not, it just says it's more accurate than normal, which, for all we know, might mean it is infinitely more accurate than the normal attack. For testing, proving something like this, it's factually impossible(you'd have to use the special attack for infinite amount of times, and never miss), and even then, considering the knowledge of RS combat system, hitting a 0 doesn't always mean a miss, so it's sometimes impossible to distinguish between hits and misses. As it has been said before, not having MLB/sMLB/MCB is not really an argument for you not to test it, me not being a member, however, is.

[TheAncient]

Sgs is incredibly inferior when it comes to healing, sgs only use is the prayer bonus.

 

EEE can be used anywhere doing anything such as agilty, theiving or living rock caverns to name a few. As you stated with your possbily flawed calculations Sgs is already clearly inferior for healing and added with the use of special restores and ring of vigour the gap only widens.

 

The ease of replacement, being a one handed weapon and being quick to execute only improves the EEE argument, i can't see how Sgs can be superior for healing in ANY way.

 

Please try and prove me wrong.

 

This is exactly the kind of close-mindedness I wanted to confront by making this post.

 

For pure healing, SGS is inferior; I agree.

 

But for actual inventory space or money saved per spec, SGS is comparable. SGS is also useful partially as a spec weapon and the fact that it heals you much more immediately can make it useful for pvp and pvm.

[x1992x]

As i see this the EEE takes a lot of high skills and the SGS only takes money and 2 lvl. 70 skills, I think its fair the EEE is better.

[xpx]

As i see this the EEE takes a lot of high skills and the SGS only takes money and 2 lvl. 70 skills, I think its fair the EEE is better.

Well actually, he is also assuming very high combat levels and very good combat equipment/FSH for SGS, so the levels are more or less equal. For example, a for someone level 110 training at bandits, sgs would be terrible.

[SirIzenhime]

Yes, you are very much stupid for trusting the makers of the game. Anyone with half a brain knows that jagex doesn't actually know much about the game, which is why fan-sites like tip.it are very much popular even now, much after the KB was released. The fact that there is proof that the stats of chaotic items are incorrect just proves that the KB is not always correct, thus can't ever be used for reference(like you are doing right now). In any case, the KB doesn't specify if the special attack is 100% accurate or not, it just says it's more accurate than normal, which, for all we know, might mean it is infinitely more accurate than the normal attack. For testing, proving something like this, it's factually impossible(you'd have to use the special attack for infinite amount of times, and never miss), and even then, considering the knowledge of RS combat system, hitting a 0 doesn't always mean a miss, so it's sometimes impossible to distinguish between hits and misses. As it has been said before, not having MLB/sMLB/MCB is not really an argument for you not to test it, me not being a member, however, is.

 

I never said it was an argument, I just said I wasn't going to do it :rolleyes:

I also didn't know that fan-sites where always correct either.

[xpx]

Yes, you are very much stupid for trusting the makers of the game. Anyone with half a brain knows that jagex doesn't actually know much about the game, which is why fan-sites like tip.it are very much popular even now, much after the KB was released. The fact that there is proof that the stats of chaotic items are incorrect just proves that the KB is not always correct, thus can't ever be used for reference(like you are doing right now). In any case, the KB doesn't specify if the special attack is 100% accurate or not, it just says it's more accurate than normal, which, for all we know, might mean it is infinitely more accurate than the normal attack. For testing, proving something like this, it's factually impossible(you'd have to use the special attack for infinite amount of times, and never miss), and even then, considering the knowledge of RS combat system, hitting a 0 doesn't always mean a miss, so it's sometimes impossible to distinguish between hits and misses. As it has been said before, not having MLB/sMLB/MCB is not really an argument for you not to test it, me not being a member, however, is.

 

I never said it was an argument, I just said I wasn't going to do it :rolleyes:

I also didn't know that fan-sites where always correct either.

they aren't, thus i never said that if it's said on tip.it, it must be true, but i'd rather use tip.it to settle any arguments than the rs KB- The KB is ridiculously riddled with mistakes with noone to account for them, tip.it has actual authors.

 

Your argument seemed more like that if you had MLB, you'd do it, but it's just that you would blow smoke and not back anything up. As far as i can tell, you have no proof that it isn't 100% accurate(the KB doesn't say that it isn't) and i have atleast some proof of it(tip.it says it will always deal damage).

[SirIzenhime]

your proof is about as good as mine so far. You have no proof that it IS 100% accurate other than a fan-made site. I have no proof it isn't 100% other than my interpretation of what Jagex has said in their Knowledge base (which has been right EXCEPT for issues of dungeoneering)

Neither you nor I have done anything so far other than blow smoke. Don't be hypocritical, we both haven't done any proving here.

 

Edit: So I had nothing better to do and decided to do a little self-proving. I wore what ever negative range attacking armor I could find, got some bronze arrows, saradomin brewed to 1 attack, and used the spec on the Kalphite Queen first form.

 

Both attacks hit, so you are correct that MLB spec is 100% accurate (or I got astronomically lucky both hits). However, the majority of my statements still stand. Some proof would have been nice, instead of flaming and calling me stupid.

[xpx]

your proof is about as good as mine so far. You have no proof that it IS 100% accurate other than a fan-made site. I have no proof it isn't 100% other than my interpretation of what Jagex has said in their Knowledge base (which has been right EXCEPT for issues of dungeoneering)

Neither you nor I have done anything so far other than blow smoke. Don't be hypocritical, we both haven't done any proving here.

The quote from tip.it is proof enough for near everyone, including me. You can't prove me wrong by the quote from KB, as it doesn't specify anything about the subject. Not to mention, i have ALOT more experience with magic longbows, i've been around from the release of the special attacks and thus know what they actually do.

 

As for the KB, it's not only incorrect in the subject of dungeoneering, there have been alot of other mistakes that have been corrected in due time. Not to mention, jagex has proved time and again that they have very little knowledge of the game, there are numerous members of this forum that i trust above jagex.

 

Also, as i said, i'm not a member- i can't and couln't prove it, and absolute proof of the fact is theoretically impossible due to the build of the game. I'm not saying you are stupid because you do or do not trust me or tip.it, but rather because you trust a vague quote from RSKB over me/tip.it.

[SirIzenhime]

 

Also, as i said, i'm not a member- i can't and couln't prove it, and absolute proof of the fact is theoretically impossible due to the build of the game. I'm not saying you are stupid because you do or do not trust me or tip.it, but rather because you trust a vague quote from RSKB over me/tip.it.

 

I'll consult your guidiance first hand next time, oh great know-it-all :rolleyes:

Just sayin'...that sounded very arrogant.

[xpx]

 

Also, as i said, i'm not a member- i can't and couln't prove it, and absolute proof of the fact is theoretically impossible due to the build of the game. I'm not saying you are stupid because you do or do not trust me or tip.it, but rather because you trust a vague quote from RSKB over me/tip.it.

 

I'll consult your guidiance first hand next time, oh great know-it-all :rolleyes:

Just sayin'...that sounded very arrogant.

Did i say that i can be consulted on any subject? don't think so. The point is, if you blindly trust anything said in the RSKB, you are bound to get called an idiot time and again- it has nothing to do with what i know or the tip.it, but the fact that RSKB is known to be riddled with mistakes(and you could make the argument that you just found another one), but you still used it to try and prove a point(which you terribly failed at).

[Hajutze]

Not that this proves anything but I went to Mithril Dragons with full addy + MLB (+50 ranged bonus ...) with brews so I could reduce my ranged to 1. The result - I hit all the 3 times (I had to run around for some time to get the 3rd shot). If it's not 100% accurate .. it's god darn close to it.

[TheAncient]

Not that this proves anything but I went to Mithril Dragons with full addy + MLB (+50 ranged bonus ...) with brews so I could reduce my ranged to 1. The result - I hit all the 3 times (I had to run around for some time to get the 3rd shot). If it's not 100% accurate .. it's god darn close to it.

 

This brings up a good point. I don't understand obsession with exact calculations. Heuristics is valid - we only need a close enough approximation. We don't know much about RS mechanics so there's no point in trying to find exact formulas rather than ones which are 99% accurate.