Something to Think About

[Nanaboy]

Jagex will do a 3 year roll back

 

duh

[All_Is_Great]

I think pretty much all the quests etc. should be left alone (maybe up the beacon xp). Jagex had a philosophy in the earlier days of RS to make the wilderness tantalizing to non-pkers. I know no one probably agrees with me though.

 

I agree with you.

 

It's not like every world is going to be packed with PKers in mid-deep wildy.

Maybe they can just make the quest related items easily reobtainable. And outside that, there shouldn't be much equipment to lose since you're just going to wear dhides, a whip probably.

[Articultural]

Stealing Creation will be moved to wherever revenants are moved, otherwise that completely defeats the purpose of the minigame.

[Bier]

It would probably be easiest to create a new area for pk'ing and let the Wilderness remain the way it is.

[All_Is_Great]

It would probably be easiest to create a new area for pk'ing and let the Wilderness remain the way it is.

 

Actually it would probably be easier to bring back the old wilderness and leave the new stuff in there. :shades:

 

Also, clues and the abyss shouldn't even be relocated, they were there from the beginning.

[pulli23]

Spirit of Summer/Summers End - Corporeal Beast: This should be moved somehow. Apart from the irritation of getting PKed during the quests themselves, I don't think corpers need to deal with PKers on top of everything else. Lorewise probably the best place to move this to would be somewhere in Morytania, though I think Drakan would take notice of something like Corp showing up on his doorstep :razz:.

A long time ago - there was another boss already in wilderness - and you had to venture much, much longer through the wilderness to go to it:

The king black dragon.

Really why is corp so special, and above the kbd of 2004? - And KBD lair itself used to be wilderness

 

Clan Wars: Since this is currently a safe area with a direct teleport to it, I assume the problem would be for the PKers, not the people using clan wars. In terms of lore this could be easily moved, maybe becoming part of the duel arena, but I don't know how much work that would be.

Formerly clan wars used to be played in high wilderness - pkers would sometimes venture there: but since everyone was in fighting gear: it was an unwritten rule to fight together vs the pkers. (and for other big clans to just leave it). So what's the problem?

Besides you can teleport there anyways.

 

Wilderness Volcano: These creatures could be moved into a dungeon without too much trouble.

Again you can teleport there.. Previously the good training spots (greater demons, red dragons) actually USED to be in the wildernes.. Why can't that be the case in the future?

But if anything, the vulcano itself should just be "outside" wilderness.

 

Defender of Varrock - Armoured Zombies: I don't see how it would be possible to move this without massive effort. To prevent the training spot from becoming near-useless, perhaps a tunnel could be found linking Zemouregal's tunnels to the Chaos Tunnels and/or the tunnel leading to the Chaos altar.

The far best training spot before monkey madness was the axe hut. - Guess where it was? Right: inside the wilderness. It is all "risk vs reward" there. And I think just making the tunnels themself "outside" wilderness keeps it a good training spot!

 

Chaos Tunnels - Bork: It would make sense to connect the Chaos Tunnels with Edgeville dungeon and/or Varrock Sewers. Although it would be irritating to have a longer route to Bork, it would be manageable. I think the bigger issue would be for PKers, who wouldn't want these 5 major exit points in the middle of the lower wilderness. I think with some hand-waving Jagex could leave the Chaos Tunnels themselves as-is, but move the entry/exit rifts outside the wilderness; they'd be linked via mysterious chaos magic or some such. This could arguably let the rifts go just about anywhere on the map, even scattered everywhere.

There is already a route to the tunnels from the dagon'hai tunnels. If you are so afraid take that route?

 

Treasure Trails: This is a biggy that you didn't mention. I know, trails existed in the old wilderness too, and I remember doing some. The difference is that most of the clue scroll rewards are near-worthless these days, so the risk/reward balance is shifted. If wildy clues stay as-is, I might seriously consider just dropping a clue that needed me to head next to the mage bank - you rarely get anything good from clues anyway, so why bother? It would be fairly trivial to just remove wilderness clue locations from the rotation.

Great - you know the reason the rewards declined in price so hard? - It was because the risk was too little and every average joe can now just walk into wilderness and do the clue. IF the clues became more difficult the price would simply rise! (as less people can do the clues)

[All_Is_Great]

^ To the person conerning chaos tunnels, TT, armoured zombies, etc:

 

The wilderness is NOT packed from lvl 1 to 56 with ancient mages ready to wtfpwn you. Pick a quiet world and you'll be pretty safe. Occasionally you'll get the odd pker within your level range, but you shouldn't be risking alot without a skull, and you should have adaquet food to run away.

[Bier]

It would be easier to just leave it as it is, but that's not a good solution. Non-pk'ers would hate getting killed while getting their stuff at corp, doing quests, lighting the beacons ect. And if there was a penguin in the Wilderness w60 would be a massacre. And pk'ers would hate all the new safespots. And everyone would hate that there would be both revenants AND pk'ers in the Wildy.

[Youmu]

These are all valid points. Moving all of these to a way different area would take tons and tons of work...

 

Would we get old wildy areas back though? The boneyard was a great place for f2pers to train for free pray xp.

 

Also, I know these are there already from the start but I think Chaos elemental and KBD can do with a move too. IMO all bosses like these should be safe zones since the bosses themselves are already quite dangerous anyway.

 

KBD: Move the lever to somewhere near Taverley dungeon, probably near the black dragons.

Chaos ele: ummm maybe in another room in the Chaos Tunnels? Similar to Bork.

 

As for noncombat... there's the Chaos rcing altar and the Air/Earth obelisks. Those need to be moved as well probably.

[Mirror]

First off, Beacon Lighting was originally called Wilderness Tag, if anyone remembers that. So, yeah, that definitely needs to stay as is.

 

Secondly, the problem with leaving Clan Wars and such is that the area is a safe zone. Can't people just hide in there?

 

I personally think the content should stay as is, just tweak it.

[pulli23]

These are all valid points. Moving all of these to a way different area would take tons and tons of work...

 

Would we get old wildy areas back though? The boneyard was a great place for f2pers to train for free pray xp.

 

Also, I know these are there already from the start but I think Chaos elemental and KBD can do with a move too. IMO all bosses like these should be safe zones since the bosses themselves are already quite dangerous anyway.

 

KBD: Move the lever to somewhere near Taverley dungeon, probably near the black dragons.

Chaos ele: ummm maybe in another room in the Chaos Tunnels? Similar to Bork.

 

As for noncombat... there's the Chaos rcing altar and the Air/Earth obelisks. Those need to be moved as well probably.

wth is wrong with you? - Those things were MEANT to be in wilderness - they've always been there!

[Jolletzu]

There is only 4 things to be removed, Clan wars and the arena what actually has no use, Wilderness volcano takes alot of space out and is potential safe hiding place, fist of guthix, safe hiding space, and last fist of guthix, again safe hiding space.

 

Then there is those quests, spirit of summer quests are not that hard really, as you probably will only need food and few summoning pouches doing it, and then there is those rewards, you can use them to tele to safe zone with ring, you could always tb there target so it can't tele.

 

Defender of Varrock, might be little more complicated than others, you need to stay good amount of time at dangerous multi zone, and if wilderness crater will be removed, you would need to tweak the tracking part up, because graveyard of shadows is actually moved more east than it has originally been.

 

 

And there is 1 problem with temple of senntisten, and that is that you can easily get into safe non wilderness area where you can tele out, because if i remember right they made tb work that if you go outside from wilderness you are not tb'd anymore. And while doing quest, just take good amount of food, 3 risks (4 with item protect prayer) should be enough to kill that ice demon or whatever it was.

 

 

And sorry about messy post, just woke up.

[michel555555]

Spirit of Summer/Summers End - Corporeal Beast:

 

This one needs to be moved the most. If not then the entrance will become a pk hot spot with people hopping to either get high end gear from corp slayers or to just annoy people going back to pick up their items after a death. The corp slayers would probably win in a fight but will take food to do so and will make corp trips much harder. And much less profitable because only big teams would be safe.

 

All Fired Up - Beacon Network - Inferno Adze:

 

This one is the next one that needs to be, not moved because that would mean reworking the entire quest as well, but at least reworked. Having the beacons accessible from trollheim actually makes more sense if you think about it. Because if some the beacons are only accessable from the wild it means that zemorgouls minions can sneak in and kill the signalers before they can light their fires. If the beacons are moved so that you don't need to go through the wild to get to them then the quest wouldn't need to also be reworked.

 

And it takes i believe around 20-30 minutes to set up for a single beacon run. I havn't done in a while so i'm not sure about that. If you are killed or even forced to tele durring a lighting run then it means that you may have to start a run all over again. And since the adze is meant as an alternative to the dragon axe and isn't much better than it, it doesn't make sense to have the beacons be a lot harder to complete or the adze will be useless.

 

The Temple at Senntisten - Ancient Curses:

 

Doesn't really need to be reworked since there is really no need for the temple after the quest and should't be much harder to get through then kbd was before.

 

Clan Wars:

 

There is no lore actually tied to clan wars so there should be no problem moving it.

 

 

Fist of Guthix:

 

Fist of guthix might require more of a rework to move because it does have some lore attached to it.

 

Wilderness Volcano:

 

I don't see why this one can't remain in the wild. Get rid of the banker and make it part of the wild and it will be a fun place to train.

 

Defender of Varrock - Armoured Zombies: I don't see how it would be possible to move this without massive effort. To prevent the training spot from becoming near-useless, perhaps a tunnel could be found linking Zemouregal's tunnels to the Chaos Tunnels and/or the tunnel leading to the Chaos altar.

 

Like this idea actually, keep the quest as it is and nothing has to be reworked. But maby a miniquest can be added where varrock digs a tunnel to zemorgouls lair in order to spy on his army. It would make more sense then just barging in the front door every time.

 

Stealing Creation:

 

Moved easilly because there is no lore on this one yet.

 

Chaos Tunnels - Bork:

 

I think it would actually be fun if you seal up the entrances from the wild and be forced to use the entrace at varrock every time you use the tunnels. Maby even make the portals malfunction more often so there is more of a risk in using the chaos tunnels.

 

Penguins:

 

Penguins don't really need to be moved from the wild. Just whenever you are doing a penguin run don't bring anything with you into the wild.

 

Treasure Trails:

 

Doesn't need to be removed since it was fine before the update. Would make clues fun again.

 

 

 

The best solution would be to just make pk worlds where all minigames were removed and the entire wild was back to one big kill zone with no safe spots. That way nothing in the skilling worlds actually have to be moved and months and months of developers time isn't spent trying to rework every single minigame and quest in the wild.

 

Although it won't really matter either way because pkers wil rage unless the wild is brought back completly to how it was pre 2007.

[Seabourch]

Well for Defender of Varrock, couldn't Jagex add an amulet into a quest that you are given so that no player can ever attack while it is equipped? Also expanding the wilderness would be nice since well, its getting kind of cramped and part of the wildy being so thrilling was you never really knew what's going to jump out and whack you.

[curtis95112]

Well for Defender of Varrock, couldn't Jagex add an amulet into a quest that you are given so that no player can ever attack while it is equipped? Also expanding the wilderness would be nice since well, its getting kind of cramped and part of the wildy being so thrilling was you never really knew what's going to jump out and whack you.

 

I expect many players would give up completing the quest just to keep the amulet. (I assume that the amulet would be taken away after completion)

[Will H]

Spirit of Summer/Summers End - Corporeal Beast:

Couldn't you move the Banker at the Wilderness volcano to a mage arena style non-Wilderness cave very near to the destroyed town? Have the spirit plane intersect with it, which is non-Wilderness. Jessica's ring could pull you into the spirit plane if you're attacked or attack someone else while in the area that the Spirit plane is parallel to, and prevent you from attacking anyone else while you're wearing it and for 20 minutes after taking it off. The people who want go to fight the Corporeal Beast can get to that non-Wilderness cave while wearing nothing, withdraw their equipment, and use the spirit plane to get into the lair. No PK risk.

 

All Fired Up - Beacon Network - Inferno Adze:

Make sure all of the beacons are accessible from non-Wilderness areas, like Trollheim.

 

The Temple at Senntisten - Ancient Curses:

I figured that having to get through a bit of high-level wilderness was an intentional challenge to this difficult quest.

 

Clan Wars:

Move it, there's no lore connected to it. If Jagex want to make it interesting, replace the whole lot with ruins and smash up the borders so PKers can fight in the ruins of the old Clan Wars arena. Have a new one constructed at the Duel Arena.

 

Fist of Guthix:

Simple, have a druid at the border of the Wilderness north of Varrock offer free teleports to the cave. Have another one in the cave offering a teleport in the other direction too.

 

Wilderness Volcano:

I'd rather it was removed. It takes up far too much room.

 

Defender of Varrock - Armoured Zombies:

I like the idea of Varrockian scouts making a tunnel from the Chaos Tunnels to the entrance of the fortress, possibly as a mini-quest.

 

Stealing Creation:

There's a bit of important lore regarding this. The biggest issue here is what will happen to the Revenants, which they're building bodies made out of sacred clay for. On the other hand, you're not actually allowed to have items in the minigame, so there's not much of an issue here.

 

Chaos Tunnels - Bork:

Have one of those crazy chaos portals that *normally* sends the player near Bork's lair placed the tunnel underneath that statue of Saradomin after you've killed him once. Seal up the openings in the Wilderness. If Jagex wants to go further, scatter some chaos portals to the points where the rifts would access the Tunnels in the runecrafting Chaos Altar.

 

Penguins:

Penguins plus PKing sounds hilarious. It's a community effort, so a common foe would be good fun. After all, if you've got any sense, you won't bring more than three items when penguin hunting in the Wilderness.

 

Treasure Trails:

I personally think that it's fine to leave it as it is. If Jagex really want to stop the TTers from complaining, make clues protect over items valued under 5K.

[Jolletzu]

 

 

The Temple at Senntisten - Ancient Curses:

I figured that having to get through a bit of high-level wilderness was an intentional challenge to this difficult quest.

 

 

Only problem is this, it leaves far too easy escape route for pkers to non wild where they can tele off, normally only place to escape in mb is to wait for yout tb to wore off and the pull lever to mb bank.

[Nifflin]

Off topic, did anyone else read the title of this thread in a RA:2 Yuri voice?

[michel555555]

 

Stealing Creation:

There's a bit of important lore regarding this. The biggest issue here is what will happen to the Revenants, which they're building bodies made out of sacred clay for. On the other hand, you're not actually allowed to have items in the minigame, so there's not much of an issue here.

 

Arn't they moving reverants as well? It might actually work out then if both are moved to the same location.

[Will H]

 

Stealing Creation:

There's a bit of important lore regarding this. The biggest issue here is what will happen to the Revenants, which they're building bodies made out of sacred clay for. On the other hand, you're not actually allowed to have items in the minigame, so there's not much of an issue here.

 

Arn't they moving reverants as well? It might actually work out then if both are moved to the same location.

 

Yeah they are. Uh, at least I think they are. Where could they be moved to? We can't just forget they existed without completely obliterating the reason why Stealing Creation exists. Unless, they come up with a story that the Wilderness became unsafe again because the mystics plan went wrong, as it obviously was going to. I imagine a group of Saradominist wizards and/or members of the ZMI coming in and using sacred clay for their own purposes. It might give more meaning to the conflict between the two teams again, as well. Making up lore is fun, I realise now why Jagex does it so much.

[Isthatok]

Yea they're moving revenants as well, but I can't fathom where... Maybe on the corners of Daemonheim? I would really really really really really really love a revenant generating machine :D Or simply a dungeon with a bunch of revenant spawns at random!

[Pete Party]

Yea they're moving revenants as well, but I can't fathom where... Maybe on the corners of Daemonheim? I would really really really really really really love a revenant generating machine :D Or simply a dungeon with a bunch of revenant spawns at random!

 

They might create a new land that will be marked as ancient wildernis, where they can relocate everything to without the big adjustment of the storyline, they can just change it to ancient wildernis.

 

In this wildernis there is no pvp possible so no pking.

 

That is the thing that pops up in my head first.

 

Like I said, and new area also called wildernis but non-pvp.

 

I think it's an option.

[Isthatok]

It's a cool idea. Maybe have some sort of trigger switch to switch between the old wildy and new wildy. To be honest, it would be more hassle free to just make a significant portion of the worlds with dangerous wilderness and the rest left alone but somehow that idea is still trashed by other people.

[pulli23]

It's a cool idea. Maybe have some sort of trigger switch to switch between the old wildy and new wildy. To be honest, it would be more hassle free to just make a significant portion of the worlds with dangerous wilderness and the rest left alone but somehow that idea is still trashed by other people.

No one in their right mind would pk if it was a guaranteed money loss case. Or pk if the odds are like 40% loss..

 

The problem with only pker worlds would mean that only pkers go there..

 

And if 2 pkers fight each other the end value is always less than the start (since you don't pick up everything, and food is lost during the kill). Thus ultimatelly no pker (apart from the absolute top) can survive pking pkers alone - they'll run dry on money sooner or later. And without the big bottom group pkers, also the top can't survive.

 

The bottom group needs skillers/random strangers to feed upon.

Small clans need the sole pkers to make profit.

average clans need the small clans.

and huge clans need the average clans to pk against.

 

Simply without an incentive for skillers/clue hunters to go in wilderness there is no value going "into" the wilderness: the only thing is that the wilderness will drain value. And ultimatelly pking will die. (This happened in the very first few months after the trade updates, when 26k wasn't possible yet and jagex thought people would "pk for fun").

 

So let's look at the options:

- No incentive to skill in the wildernes means the wildernes would become a value drain: pking is unsustainable for the average pker to do. (and pking will slowly die)

- Currently the system (where drop is determined by the program Yet skillers don't have to go there) indeeds makes pking profitable: however it is very easy to abuse and hence lead to massive inflation over the last few years.

- The old system (where skillers would bring in regular money while doing clues/mining runerocks/abbys rcing/training in axe hut) was a stabilizing system: value was brought into the wildernes, yet as players determined what to bring it would never be too much. - Yet also not too little. And especially the fact no cash is generated is important (so wilderness isn't really a point of massive inflation for high end items, though it does inflate the prices of food/potions)

[michel555555]

 

Stealing Creation:

There's a bit of important lore regarding this. The biggest issue here is what will happen to the Revenants, which they're building bodies made out of sacred clay for. On the other hand, you're not actually allowed to have items in the minigame, so there's not much of an issue here.

 

Arn't they moving reverants as well? It might actually work out then if both are moved to the same location.

 

Yeah they are. Uh, at least I think they are. Where could they be moved to? We can't just forget they existed without completely obliterating the reason why Stealing Creation exists. Unless, they come up with a story that the Wilderness became unsafe again because the mystics plan went wrong, as it obviously was going to. I imagine a group of Saradominist wizards and/or members of the ZMI coming in and using sacred clay for their own purposes. It might give more meaning to the conflict between the two teams again, as well. Making up lore is fun, I realise now why Jagex does it so much.

 

Whats the lore with revs again? I'm not 100% sure on it. They were souls who died durring the god wars and so roam the wild for whatever reason. And then stealing creation was made to turn sacred clay into bodies for the revs so they could find peace? I don't remember anything about where the clay actually comes from or why the souls are wandering the wild.

 

If they do move it they could greatly expand the lore on it since they will have more room to work with stealing creation then the already cramped wild. Such as, maby move it to an island off the coast of the wild where a great battle took place and an accident destroyed an entire city. The accident could have been casued by or created sacred clay that is being used to create new bodies for the revs and traped the spirits of the fighters on our plane. And more could be added to stealing creation where you actually help to build the bodies and maby get first hand accounts from the revs about what the world was like at the time of the god wars.

 

Knowing jagex though they'll just make it a rush job and have some random portal linking to some random island in the middle of nowhere and have sc remain the same as it is with no explanation.